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How Does The Universe Work?
Ok, so I'm learning about The Universe in Science class right now. I understand that our Solar System is part of the Milky Way Galaxy. That we are no more than a small speck in the entire galaxy. So it got me thinking.....what does the galaxy revolve around? A larger star? A black hole? Then, what does that star revolve around? Is it possible that our galaxy is no more than just a small speck in The Universe? Could that mean our galaxy is just a small speck inside another galaxy which is just a small speck inside another galaxy and so on and so forth?
Another thing I'm wondering is what creates gravity. The larger the mass in space the more gravity. So what creates this pull and why does it pull inward to the planet? The Universe amazes me. Answers? Suggestions? Theories? |
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I think it is the all mass have an attraction to other masses, just that the more massive you are the more attraction you have to other masses. Explains how we have gravity on earth (since the earth is much bigger than us) and how the Sun make the Earth revolves around it (since the Sun is much bigger than the Earth)
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no one knows why gravity exists, although we've got a pretty decent grasp on how it works. no one really knows why matter exists either... the idea is that a particle named the Higgs boson might be responsible, and the LHC at CERN hopes to detect this when it's finished.
the milky way is part of a large cluster of galaxies that is itself spinning and is part of an even larger supercluster of clusters. |
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1. Motion is relative. It's mathematically easy to picture the galaxy as revolving around a (very large) mass at the center of the universe, but in theory we could simply pretend that the Earth was the center of the universe and that everything else moved in a complicated pattern around us instead. (Although, to answer your question, it's meaningless for the "center of the universe," such as it is, to revolve around anything. It's the center!)
2. Gravity is gravity. Something with a larger mass has more atoms in it, and each atom exerts a specific amount of gravitational force on each other atom. 3. Nobody fully understands the universe. You can spend your entire life studying cosmology, which is what a lot of people do (they're called cosmologists, oddly enough). They end up learning a lot, but they're learning new things so fast it's getting hard to keep up. |
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We are a brane that did not stop expanding. There can be an infinite number of other branes that could be in the same situation.
Oops. |
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Let's break it down. 1. What does the galaxy revolve around? Depends what you mean. The galaxy is spinning around a supermassive black hole at the center. The sun is moving at near a milliion miles an hour around this thing at any given time. The galaxy itself though, the black hole at the center, does not 'rotate' around a larger mass, but it is always moving because space is always expanding and energy and matter is being dispursed more thinly. 2. Yes our galaxy is a small spec in the universe. WMAP results predict somewhere around the region of 500 billion galaxies in the observable universe. 3. Gravity is, basically, cause by bends in the space time fabric. I mean, it happens because energy within space causes causes distortions within it, or a dip for example. We revolve around the sun because, essentially the sun is creating a larger dip and gravitational pull which the earth falls into. To see gravity on an extreme scale, look at a black hole. To understand one in a simple sense, it is a hole or 'dip' in the space fabric that extends doward infinitely, so you can imagine what would happen if you got too close (event horizon). This is exactly where e=mc^2(/(1-v^2/c^2) comes from, where mass and energy are different manefestations of the same thing. Creating a lot of either or distorts space time, which can start to produce neat effects like time dilation. You could get a lot more technical but you don't need to to understand it. |
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dammit you're all retarded. NO ONE UNDERSTANDS GRAVITY. it's easy as hell to figure out how it works, that's not the problem. no one knows WHY it exists because no one knows why mass exists, and mass is what causes the bends in space time. It's so incredibly profound... how the hell does spacetime know to bend just because there's some mass in it? Why does the earth orbit the sun? Does the earth know the sun exists? No... it has no clue. It's action at a distance and no one knows why it happens.
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It's just so stupid. Noones cares why something happens. The universe isn't a living being like us, I don't even see why it would require a why since it isn't a thinking organism. We should only be concerned with how. How does it know to bend? Because that's what it does, that's how it works. A really good question would be WHY DOES THE UNIVERSE REQUIRE REASON? Not to mention why could be arbitrarily defined, and could also have more than one definition. Like I could reply, gravity is necessary, that is why it exists. But then you could change the question to be more specific. It's just an endless cycle of stupid questions that don't have to be known to understand something. |
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Magnetic monopoles.
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To the whole orbit of galaxy's thing, There is some speculation that we (our galaxy as a whole) are rotating around something known as the The Great Attractor which i believe is supposed to be made up of dark matter. |
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Oh i remember seeing something that einstein was working on.
How the whole solar system would be layed out on some kind of 3d or maybe just 2d grid. And the larger the object it pushes down and creates i guess a crater of some sort. We are falling around the crater the same way as if you throw a marbel around some round hole to where it spins. Except we go really slow and all. actually im just kinda making this up. But maybe thats why there is global warming as well. Cause over millions of years. we get closer on average. so then our solar system would be being pulled twords the center of the milky way cause there is something there causing a large crater. And the milky way is being pulled to an even larger crater and so on till you are at the center of the universe. Which obviously must be something really really large. |
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Wait isn't dark matter just the opposite of matter? So say when you drop dark matter it would fall up instead of down and all that.
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reach.... ok consider the electromagnetic force. We know the force carrier. (the photon). The weak force. We know the force carriers (W and Z bosons... I think). Pretty sure we know the carriers for the strong force as well. But we have no clue what the force carrier for gravity. A graviton has been proposed, but hasn't been observed. Therefore, as far as we know, we have no idea how gravity REALLY works. We know what gravity does, but not how it does it. That's what I'm saying.
(Higgs boson = mass which is obviously closely related with gravity, why I brought it up). EDIT: dark matter is any matter with a very low albedo but some serious mass... the opposite of matter is antimatter. |
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well that's what it sounded like you were talking about...
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And uh, I suppose there is always unanswered questions, so it's hard to say we know how anything REALLY works. But I get what you're saying, our understanding of gravity is extremely weak at this point, and yes, I agree completely. However, I think it's nice to atleast know what we currently know. And we don't know what dark matter or energy is, honestly. Absolutely noone could tell you what it REALLY is ;p |
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grandia as far as I know there's no matter that goes against gravity... gravity is always attractive, never repulsive.
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I thought that the Higgs boson was only hypothetical.
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There is a facility where the goverment makes anti-matter. They showed it on the discovery channel. (I think that is what channel it was.)
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Pssh, Geno. They should man up and beat Culex with Mallow.
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Higgs boson hasn't been discovered yet because accelerators haven't been powerful enough to discover it yet. the LHC at CERN will be powerful enough to do so when it opens (which I think is in 2007).
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Yeah, gravity is caused by warps in time and space. Let me give you an example. You have a square rubber sheet, it's 2D. You drop a bowling ball into it, and it makes a huge crater-like thing. (The bowling ball is hanging in the sheet, it has not fallen through). If you place a tiny pebble pretty much anywhere in the sheet, it falls towards that crater. There you go, gravity.
P.S. Black holes occur when the objects rip through the sheet. |
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I think anti-matter is like the opposite of matter.. It acts the exact same way regular matter does, but instead, it has a negative charge. That's pretty much it.
1 is the opposite of -1, yet they are both the same distance from 0. |
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I don't think that the Universe revolves around anything. It just keeps getting bigger and bigger until eventually it explodes- then it gets small again. The universe is kind of like a penis in that sense.
Looking back at all these forums I remember you guys from the days of young. Kudos if you can figure out who I am- I know one person who can ;). |
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lol...he said penis...but yes according to the Big Bang Theory the Universe started out as a small ball no larger than a golf ball...Then with radiation and stuff..it exploded and continually grows larger and larger. i only know bits and pieces..but ya..theres my two cents. If anyone can elaborate...please do. Im trying to get an Astronomy major one day. Not before my Chemistry major
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Let me go through it step by step: - Draw a whole bunch of grid lines through empty space. A three-dimensional coordinate grid. When it's totally empty, all of those lines are flat and don't change with time. - A massless particle traveling through empty space travels in a straight line: that is, it travels along a grid line. - Now put some matter and energy in. Lines running close to matter and energy will tend to curve toward it - the more mass/energy, the more curvature. - Now everything moves along the new lines, only they're curved. Things will speed up/slow down depending on how curved the lines are. Quote:
The theory that I think you're referring (very poorly) to is the Big Crunch hypothesis, and it works like this: - The universe is expanding too slowly. The force of gravity eventually pulls everything back together. - Once everything becomes close enough together, it'll explode out in another Big Bang. There's plenty of credible scientific evidence that suggests that this scenario is highly unlikely - for one thing, not only is the universe's expansion not slowing down, it's speeding up. The rate at which the universe is expanding now is very finely balanced with gravity, but if it were just a little too high, we have the scenario known as the Big Freeze: - The universe is expanding too quickly. The force of gravity can't pull everything together, and eventually everything is too far apart. - Once everything becomes too far apart, everything becomes cold because heat energy escapes into space. - Everything becomes chunks of cold crap floating in space. Nothing happens. Ever. There's a nice discussion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...f_the_universe But seriously, I wish some of you guys would try to do a little bit of research before you post about crap you don't know anything about. |
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Science is part of the empirical mode of thought started by Aristotle which is decided entirely by physical experiences through the senses. The only acceptable things in Science are those which we can somehow examine, measure, understand, and postulate. Philosophy is a part of the rationalist mode of thought originally started by some derivative of religion sometime around 20 millenia ago. It didn't really start picking up speed until a man named Socrates, who was followed by Plato, brought some thought to the table. Plato was the one who recorded and explained the work of himself and Socrates, and started the school of thought called Rationalism, which most philosophy strings from. The difference between science and philosophy is that science is recording how something happens and the forces that are involved, and philosophy is try to create a supposition as to why these things happen, and for what reason or purpose. We are trying to hypothetically understand what is physical, not what is metaphysical. To clarify: science and philosophy are two seperate facets regarding the same thing and cannot be defined in the same ways. Thank you for your time, Charlotte |
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In other words, you can't use the rules of Chess to play Hungry Hungry Hippos. |
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charlotte you missed this post:
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I think gravity is not caused by relativity, and that thing you made up about grids, why do they curve? O_o
What if gravity just turns out to be a leakage of arractions from electrons to protons, of different atoms? |
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Instead of being pulled by gravity..Universe is infinitely expanding so that objects move outward which mean that Galaxies continually are farther apart from each other.
What causes gravity is the great attraction large masses produce to form clusters such as a galaxy. As a supernova occurs the objects pulled from the center mass are scattered throughout space otherwise sucked into a black hole created by the blast. Blackholes are a big mystery because while the universe expands. Blackholes pull matter into its center. hmm...now i just lost my train of thought but hey...thats what i think. My Take on things. |
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Gravity can be explained by Einstein's laws of relativity, though it might take a while to fully understand. If gravity is strong enough for a planet to rip the fabric of space-time, a black hole will result. If humanity can control the center of the black hole, we have reached a level that transcends God. That's why Star Trek's technology is something we will not achieve for at least a thousand years, imo. Astronomy is one hell of a subject. |
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Do keep in mind that black holes do not neccesarily exist. They violate a few laws of physics and no one can figure out how to modify our laws so that black holes are 'correct'.
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This may be a quibble, but it's the Romulan Warbird which utilizes a black hole for a power source, not the Federation (which includes humans). The federation uses matter/antimatter annihilation 8)
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Stephen Hawking even claimed that black holes may very well be the location of heaven and hell. I can't find the link to an article now but if you read it....incredible stuff. And Hawking is a genius, up with Einstein. Quote:
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Doesnt' really matter o_O They're a mathimatical solution to einsteins equations, they can be observed, and are a consequence of a dying star that is too large. It's a long shot to say they don't exist XD Wether some of them are something else though, well, super.
and uh, a black hole being heaven or hell? what the **** XD By definition you'd be crushed by gravity long before getting into it anyway, so I dunno, you might be able to classify it as hell, but not heaven XD Though, more recently black holes have been considered something 'nice' and necessary for the development of our universe rather than just a big hole that eats everything. |
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I just think that our brains don't have the capacity to understand it.
I'm being serious, too. We have trouble grasping the idea of infinity... our brain wants to tell us that it has to stop SOMEWHERE, the universe must stop SOMEWHERE, it's just beyond the limits of human comprehension |
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...<.<;
It's, uh, called dark matter, businessman07. |
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wtf
EVERYTHING is a theory, since our minds have no direct contact with reality - they can only interpret what information we collect through our senses or indirectly through instruments. Also, saying that "the human mind can't comprehend infinity" is total bull****. The human mind can't comprehend 300 million, yet we deal with it just fine. Can you really picture 300 million things in your head? Can you picture 10,000 things in your head? Maybe, if you arrange them in a square of 100x100 and imagine each side being 10 segments of 10 items each, but a couple of orders of magnitude above that it becomes impossible. Saying "but we can never comprehend infinity" is just a stupid copout - that's why we have MATH, ever thought of that? To deal with things that we can't hold in our primate brains as is. And businessman07, learn how to spell goodbye and stop typing in caps ("realizing" that your caps lock is on and not fixing it is a sure sign of, um, I don't even know what) |
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All masses have an orbital field which draws smaller objects closer to the larger one. The size of the orbital field is defined by the mass, size, and shape of the object pending. Really, Newtons laws do explain a fragment of the way gravity works, but outside of it is orbital function and planetary drifting, in other words, how each star/planet/ sun moves. For example, the water level here on earth is effected by the position of the sun. The gravity of the moon effects the water at all times. Just a thought though.
Anyone feel like correcting me on any of this? |
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sertman, I'm sorry, but it is perfectly possible to comprehend infinity - don't speak for the entire human race. Think about it this way - if you can imagine a huge stack of bills going to the moon and not be thinking about every single bill in that stack, and call that "comprehending" the number, then I can "comprehend" infinity by thinking of a line that's 1cm long. There's an infinite number of points in that line. :/ It's something you learn to internalize after you think about it enough. Oh, and the word's "comprehensible", btw.
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yeah antimatter is matter with opposite charge. When u add antimatter and matter together though they cancel each other out creating a huge amount of gamma. Dark matter is supposed to be the number 1 type of matter in the universe but dark energy surpasses that. The universe is expanding thats almost a fact but the question is, Is it accelerating? Dark energy is (if u believe the universe is accelerating) what causes the acceleration of the universe and makes up most of the universe itself. Also about gravity, thats a hard subject to get into but i dont believe in the graviton crap. I believe more in an einstiens and kamu's way of looking at it, as relating to other higher deminsions. It is explained more with unified theory and string theory but dont wanna explain it cause too long.
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sage
Please speak in complete sentences and do not abbreviate "you" as "u".
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Our minds have no direct contact with reality? What on earth are you going on about now. Prove this? What is reality? You could define it infinitely, therefor this statement is meaningless. And I think infinity is a pretty impossible to comprehend, since you can't exactly put measure to something that countinues without bounds, you can understand it's meaning but it's not exactly something tangable. Also, to say our math can properly measure infinity is a little iffy in some cases. Mathematics break down at planck length, are equations make no sense when explaining something infinitely small (alteast equations that don't involve radical untested theories :P) |
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How come every picture I ever see of a galaxy has a glowing center? Wouldn't that mean there's a gigantic star in the center? Or is it many star clusters forming on large super cluster that revolves around a massive black hole?
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Well, looking at it logically, it should come stars and hot gas, but the reason it's so bright in the center is probably the gas. The gas and dust is going to absorb a lot of the visible light so you can't see through it. If you were to look at a galaxy in another spectra I'm sure it would not like like that in the center.
There is still a black hole at the center. Huge...like, probably 5 million times as big as the sun. lol |
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As for infinity, by mathematics I mean pure mathematics, obviously, not applied mathematics. "Mathematics break down at planck length" - uh, this is simply not true, nor does it make any sense. Mathematics doesn't "break down" anywhere because it isn't anywhere. -fs |
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Rest is assumptions. "Proof" and "Reality" are non tangable words that have arbitrary definitions. Don't use them unless you have to. I could define reality such that it is only what is possible through my interactions with everything I perceive to exist, making whatever you went on about again, meaningless. Mathematics breaking down at planck length is a 'saying' as I would call it. If you would like a more direct answers, mathematics give incorrect answers at planck length. Then again, I could say you got me because I'll make the assumption your use of the word 'theory' is also a generalized 'saying'. XD And to say mathematics isn't 'anywhere' isn't necessarily true, since mathematics is defined by us, anything can be expressed in terms of math and therefor it exists everywhere as defined by us. Oh the wonderful game of definition. |
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The only thing that makes them a bit difficult to comprehend is that the infinite and the infinitesimal do not lie on the realspace, they are hypperreal numbers. Because Euclidean space is very similar to R^3 space, we have some basic difficulty comprehending things that lie outside of this realspace. |
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Now that that's over - um, pretty much anyone will agree that "reality" is "that which is objectively true". A logical "proof" is by universal definition a logical argument that uses axiomatic laws upon premises to show the validity of a conclusion. Mathematics doesn't "give answers", correct or incorrect. Not to mention that in pure mathematics there is no definition of "correct" or "incorrect" - only "valid" and "invalid", when you're working on subjective inputs. I think you're misunderstanding what exactly mathematics is - perhaps you're thinking of quantitative measurement? :/ By saying that mathematics "isn't anywhere" I mean that it is not fundamentally connected to physical reality. -fs |
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This discussion is fairly irrelevant. It's hard to make ground here.
I tend to misspell tangible for some reason. Sue me, you know what I mean, ;) There is a section of philosophy that deals with the proof of knowledge. You can certainly be correct with math. There are correct answers within itself. I define 1+1 to be 2 therefor the answer is correct. Saying otherwise is being overanalytical or ****ing with the definition of the words. This is just all one big mess, and I won't be posting on this specific topic anymore XD It's all assumption and unproveable words that don't go anywhere. Not to mention there's a bunch of noise in teh background and I can't concentrate. |
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Read "A Sense of the Mysterious". Alan Lightman really elaborates on some of these topics. It helped me to understand the universe much better. But I forgot about it all since Katrina. Plus I just graduated from high school. I wrote an essay on it (I think) *searches for essay*.
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Considering that it followed the statement that "Mathematics break down at planck length", or even worse that "equations make no sense when explaining something infinitely small" (uh, that's sort of the foundation of calculus >_>), I find it diminishes greatly in stature.
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1) That's called, um, principles of uniform circular motion. Simple Newtonian physics. Something going around in a circle is constantly changing direction, but not speed. Since velocity is a combination of direction and speed, the velocity is constantly changing, which means there is an acceleration being effected upon the object. This acceleration times the mass of the object is equal to the "centripetal force", which is a constant force exerted on the object always directed towards the center of the circle. In the case of a gravitational orbit, this centripetal force is the force of gravity. Since the force of gravity follows the inverse square law, this can also allow for elliptical orbits.
2) The universe is not shrinking. Also there is no center of the universe, as far as we know, and the giant black hole thing refers to the center of our particular galaxy, not the universe itself. |
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Question: How does the universe work?
Answer: It doesn't. |
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Also Djreality, remember, these curves in space time arn't real. It's a mathematical fabric to create something tangible (;) ) out of something abstract and untangible. General relativity is absolutely NOT correct, however, it's created fabric does make extremely good predictions abotu what will happen.
Rest is what flaming said. And the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. I notice you make a big deal about me saying 'the math breaks down' and such, yet you wouldn't make a deal when I say space fabric? Why? You do realize both are said because it's easy to understand? Why would I overcomplicate things when I can say them so that they make sense? I don't need to go about explaining undefined solutions and people arguing over whether or not they are possible XD Not to mention many physicists use the same terminology. Einstein, and people like brian greene are famous not because they use the most 'correct' terminology, but because what they say makes sense. Whatever you're going on about is ridiculous and irrelevant. Calculus and what is actually occuring in nature don't always agree with eachother. Calculus is the foundation for much of mathematics, but maybe Calculus is the problem. If it wasn't we wouldn't have so many different god damn theories to explain things that make absolutely no sense under certain forms of mathematics, with each of these theories disagreeing with what many other ones are saying. The universe is so complex it is impossible to properly model under any of our little theories. I'm sure one day it will be possible, but there's going to be a lot of overhaul on what we think we know. |
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For your question you should read the book 'The Maybe Universe' and/or 'Jonathan Edwards: Philosophical Theologian'.
They talked about Isaac Newton and stuff. Heh. Edit: Some sentence from the book: "Centuries later Isaac Newton appeared and extended the well-known earth force, gravity, out into the solar system, and the force, or method, of interacting, known as universal gravitation was born." |
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Reach, um, the fabric of spacetime is a metaphor, and is perfectly fine to use. Saying that "math breaks down" just shows that you're uninformed. And wishing that higher math would just go away so we wouldn't have such complicated theories just seems like a plaintive excuse. I have to ask, how much math do you even know?
And what do you mean by "the curvature of spacetime isn't real"? It's as real as quarks and gluons are, because the currently accepted theory posits their existence. I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at there. -fs |
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