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jchman2004 07-26-2005 06:46 PM

Religion
 
What kind of impact does religion have on society- a good or bad one and why do you feel the the way you do? Please share some experiences. :D

senate7377 07-26-2005 07:20 PM

RE: Religion
 
That couldn't be MORE of a textbook essay question....

nforcer06164 07-26-2005 07:33 PM

RE: Religion
 
Look at some other threads in this forum. Many of them have to do with religion, or even turn into debates about religion, and will probably answer your question. As for answering it in this thread? senate pretty much nailed it; it's not the kind of question I'd like to think about to answer. Maybe somebody else will, though.

Austaph 07-28-2005 11:47 PM

RE: Religion
 
Religion sucks. It's all lies. Anyone who disagrees with me will go to hell.

stlunatic0124 07-28-2005 11:58 PM

Re: RE: Religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Austaph
Religion sucks. It's all lies. Anyone who disagrees with me will go to hell.

Agreed. All it does it create war.

The_Q 07-29-2005 07:52 AM

RE: Re: RE: Religion
 
Quote:

Religion sucks. It's all lies. Anyone who disagrees with me will go to hell.
Good sir, you are going to be sigged for that.

Religion topics are pretty much off limits in CT just because the cannot be settled. I recommend not asking them and instead looking in to your history textbook. Perhaps read Guns, Germs and Steel.

Q

Austaph 07-29-2005 09:14 AM

RE: Re: RE: Religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stlunatic0124
Agreed. All it does it create war.

Heh, I don't think you caught the satire/irony - I was laying it on pretty thick. Religion is an incredibly intimate topic. Unfortunately, when personal beliefs collide, nothing good comes of it. That we understand each other - seeing eye-to-eye - may be much more important than morality.

"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Pinsy14 07-30-2005 10:00 PM

religion
 
You know what? I'll be the first one to line up and agree that organized religion has caused many wars and conflicts. I personally am proud to say I am an agnostic. I don't believe in organized religion because most of them are run by greedy men. Of course, I do comfort the idea that if it weren't for religion to "control" the people of older eras (i.e. encourage the people to do good to go to heaven), there might have been even more wars than religion conflicts have caused. Think about it. Before large governments like the United States came around, religion was what people fell back upon during times of oppression and conflict. Faith kept people moving forward instead of destroying each other (for the most part). As for the 21st century. I think organized religion is outdated.

Z3ratul 07-31-2005 12:52 AM

Quote:

Religion sucks. It's all lies. Anyone who disagrees with me will go to hell.
LMAO, that's really good. I love the subtle contradiction there... I caught the irony it's pretty good.

Anyways, what you asked is a pretty broad and open-ended question which leaves entirely too much room for discussion... try to be more specific, otherwise, you'll just get broad answers like you have thus far.

That said, I'll try to lead the discussion in some sort of... direction. One thing that often ticks me off about theists (Christians particularly) is the attribution of moral to religion. They express it in such a way that if you're not Christian, you're not moral, which in my mind is in no way the case. However, the interesting paradox is despite the fact that USA is probably the most open ended country I know of in that you can believe what you want (even though it's overwhelmingly Christian). The thing here is that in government legal practice we find TOO many exceptions as we try to find our moral standing, because we don't have a faith to base it on... as been said, it's a complex issue.

For the masses I think organized religion might be good, but it's hard to say. The question isn't so much as how it effects society as how much it effects humanity's view on life... this might be the fear of science. Bare with me... the only certainy we have is death, and we have no proven idea of what lies beyond... I consider every religion, including science, to be theory. However, look at the wave of technology that science has provided us. There might be a subconcious fear of science revealing some "truth" that we've never before found... however, it's hard to say. That's just a theory...

Ultimately I'm not sure... where I stand is 'agnostic', considered in the layman's term. For those of you familar with Decartes, well, he describes my thought process perfectly. Again, try to be more specific in your topic and I can give better discussion.

GuidoHunter 07-31-2005 04:28 AM

Re: religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinsy14
You know what? I'll be the first one to line up and agree that organized religion has caused many wars and conflicts.

No, you won't. Maybe in this thread alone, but hardly in the world or even just this forum. Nobody is doubting this fact. Hell, even the leaders of organized religions admit this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinsy14
I don't believe in organized religion because most of them are run by greedy men.

Most cults are, but I can't think of any mainstream religion led by people with a vested economic interest in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinsy14
Of course, I do comfort the idea that if it weren't for religion to "control" the people of older eras (i.e. encourage the people to do good to go to heaven), there might have been even more wars than religion conflicts have caused. Think about it. Before large governments like the United States came around, religion was what people fell back upon during times of oppression and conflict. Faith kept people moving forward instead of destroying each other (for the most part).

Think about what? What you've proposed to think about is a ridiculous situation where anything could happen. Yes, what you suggest could happen in that world, but so could anything else. You can't take such a complex entity out of the mix and expect to predict what would have happened accordingly. You can't just say that it was religion that got people through tough times; much more consideration has to be taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinsy14
As for the 21st century. I think organized religion is outdated.

For you, perhaps, but remember, religion is a personal thing. Such things cannot be outdated. Sorry for the lack of a better word, but faith can never be outdated or excluded. Even if some interpretation is done by another trusted person (in the form of the religious leaders), religion will always have the same impact that it has and had. Religion is not merely an object used to sway people.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

chardish 07-31-2005 04:47 AM

RE: Re: religion
 
CREATION OF NEW RELIGION TOPIC IN CT
DISCOURAGEMENT OF SUCH BEHAVIOR BY CT REGULARS
DESCRIPTION OF OUTRAGE OVER RELIGION BY 14-YEAR-OLD AGNOSTICS
USAGE OF TERMS "BRAINWASHING" "CONTROL" AND "MASSES"
REFUTATION OF ARGUMENTS BY BRAINY RELIGIOUS TYPES
SIDETRACKING OF TOPIC INTO THE ISSUE OF CHURCH AND STATE
ENTRANCE OF JEWPIN INTO TOPIC
REHASHING OF 14-YEAR-OLD'S ARGUMENTS IN A MORE WITTY FASHION BY JEWPIN
ESCALATION OF TOPIC INTO FLAME WAR
LOCKING OF TOPIC
REPETITION OF PROCESS TWO MONTHS LATER

jewpinthethird 07-31-2005 04:52 AM

RE: Re: religion
 
This doesnt have much to do with the topic, just my personal opinion, not that anyone cares about it, I'm just venting.

I am not religious. If I were to classify myself as anything, it would be agnostic. I believe, if a god does exist, science will one day be able to prove it. But just because I dont go to church nor believe in a conventional god, I still pray. Not to anyone or thing inperticular, I just pray. It's more for myself, it provides some comfort. Even in silly things, like fortunes, I find comfort in. Or if a bad thing happens to me, it's easier to just think "hey, I probably deserved it, karma."

So I dont think faith is outdated at all. Even though I dont have a God, I still have faith. And chances are, everybody does to some extent.

stlunatic0124 07-31-2005 09:05 AM

Re: religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinsy14
Of course, I do comfort the idea that if it weren't for religion to "control" the people of older eras (i.e. encourage the people to do good to go to heaven), there might have been even more wars than religion conflicts have caused. Think about it. Before large governments like the United States came around, religion was what people fell back upon during times of oppression and conflict. Faith kept people moving forward instead of destroying each other (for the most part).

Think about what? What you've proposed to think about is a ridiculous situation where anything could happen. Yes, what you suggest could happen in that world, but so could anything else. You can't take such a complex entity out of the mix and expect to predict what would have happened accordingly. You can't just say that it was religion that got people through tough times; much more consideration has to be taken.



--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

FALSE. Religion WAS made to control the masses back when technology was not advanced enough to do so.


PS: REFUTATION OF ARGUMENTS BY BRAINY RELIGIOUS TYPES
LOL
But, aren't you like 15-16?

Z3ratul 07-31-2005 10:03 AM

RE: Re: religion
 
Jewpin, on an off topic note, if there's one thing I like to believe, it's karma. It somehow gives comfort to how unfair and plain shitty the world is.

Layla-Day 07-31-2005 11:01 AM

RE: Re: religion
 
http://www.rr-bb.com/index.php?

as your questions there, cuz it made for religious questions, but here, all they are gonna do is fuck up this thread and get it locked.

The_Q 08-1-2005 04:33 PM

RE: Re: religion
 
Religious questions are best answered by your local pastor, not us. Here there are people who don't know what they're talking about. If you want to consult a pastor, I recommend consulting more than one from many different denominations. If you prefer poring over the Bible for answers, try to use different translations.

In short, don't ask religious questions in here because they cannot be answered by us. And if they can, the answer will be flamed. Truth is, there is no answer. People interpret it all differently. Go find your own interpretation. Just don't step on anyone's toes while doing it.

Q

Pinsy14 08-1-2005 10:25 PM

First of all I just want to put out there that on my previous post when I came to the conclusion that religion had some men of Greed I was refering to personal experiences, Guido, that led me make that statement.

You are indeed right, however, that I needed to take many more situations, variables, and ideas into consideration when I stated that religion might not have been the cornerstone if you will, of keeping people in line before the modern era. I have to admit if I were unarmed and a man with a giant sword with dried blood all over it told me to do something, I would probably agree.

What about jewpin's idea that science will either prove or disprove God's existence comes true (someday). Let's say just for "WHAT IF's" sake that some hot shot scientist proves that God does not exist. What then? Do you think that every single human being is just going to conform up to science and say, "hey you know what, im sick of praying on deaf ears and you know what, I BELIEVE that scientist to be correct in every shape and manner." NOT A CHANCE. Bring on the Wars. Personally I am an agnostic as I have said, and I don't believe it to be possible to prove one way or the other. The only way to find out for certain is to die. My point is, I can sit here all day and write 10,000 words on, "What if this, and What if that." I was merely expressing an opinion, not fact.

As for my statement about religion being outdated, I'm very glad you commented on the same. Never in my brief opinionated discussion did I ever mention Faith in the negative. Personally I am overwhelmed in my faith, however, not with God. I believe the Bible and the Quran to be written by men before their times, who had great ideas, intentions, and thoughts of Faith, but the fact remains that they were both books the MUST have been written by men (in my eyes). We have no solid proof to believe otherwise. The Word of God? Only a God would know if that is true.

Stlunatic had a interesting point. I agree that religion was created in a time when there was almost no technology and religion worked in controlling the masses, for a while. Now we have mass education (for larger econ. status countries) and governments for that control. That is what I believe to be outdated. Not Faith, not the idea of moral right or wrong, or other ideas or guidelines to remain in good faith of whatever you hold to be dear. I can only hope for centuries to come, those ideas will remain.

Guido, however I admit when I first viewed your post in contempt of mine, I was insane with anger, I thank you for criticism on the whole. You have further involved me in a debate I am probably the most opinionated about and I'm sure human beings will continue this debate for many years to come. Next time try not to get as offended by mere ideas and opinions of someone who is most likely older, wiser, and of a different origin that yourself.

Jewpin; friend and fellow of whom also "prays." I like to refer to is as hoping and dreaming, however. This is mostlyy because of my personal past experience with the word prayer. I agree with the comfort you speak. I can attest to lonely nights on post in the military, where I have had to use that comfort. Dreams keep my mind straight, and hope gives me the strength to face tomorrow. Karma. Couldn't come up with a better word if I tried. Well put.

Hopefully I'll get the chance to comment on my beliefs about the universe and space time in the near future, but for now I must go to bed. Peace :D

senate7377 08-2-2005 03:35 AM

your opening argument disproves and proves itself in perspcetive to Qs statement. There if would be a matter of the "Chicken and the egg". God made science or did science make god? THis is why religeon is based on FAITH, and not facts as science is. Read the bible or Koran, or Book of the Dead , or Book or Mormon, or whateve you want to read - your answers will be based upon your own beliefs simply because you will look for hte answers you want (if yo have a closed mind). Q's right - talk to a pastor, rabbi, priest, even a deacon... they'll shed biased light on certain aspects of somethings you may be wondering. Religeon is not outdated - the manner in which it is viewed and acted upon however...

Remember FAITH - HOPE - BELIEF are VERY different things, and I have a firend that, hates the church...so much so that hes got a tat that reads beLIEve with praying hands. It menas belive the lie. Now adays hes ergret ful and seeks repentance for that but will he get it? Thats all on how you look at it. We are men and not a diety so anything even a pastor or priest will say is pure speculation and opinion based on belief. It plays into the blief, hope and faith being different.

GuidoHunter 08-3-2005 12:49 AM

Re: religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stlunatic0124
FALSE. Religion WAS made to control the masses back when technology was not advanced enough to do so.


PS: REFUTATION OF ARGUMENTS BY BRAINY RELIGIOUS TYPES
LOL
But, aren't you like 15-16?

False? Show me some proof of that. You may be thinking of some people twisting religion to control others (as opposed to creating religion to do so), but even then there are more examples of religion having nothing to do with control than otherwise.

Oh, and he's nineteen.

And on that note, Pinsy, I'm one of the oldest posters on these forums (I'm nearly twenty-one), though I don't blame you for the assumption. And, for what it's worth, I wasn't offended at all.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Pinsy14 08-3-2005 03:37 AM

RE: Re: religion
 
guido.. i am 21... soon to be 22 in fact..


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