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drizzleRomanceGirl 06-22-2018 06:39 PM

Transgender AMA
 
i'm really bored so if anyone has any questions about being transgender i would be happy to answer you :) (i would love to answer questions any time; i'm not just answering them because i'm bored)

also i would have made this thread in the AMA subforum but i don't think that forum shows new posts on the main page

Wayward Vagabond 06-22-2018 06:44 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
how old were you when you started undergoing the transition? because i wouldve never guessed you were transgendered when i met you.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-22-2018 06:45 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond (Post 4624662)
how old were you when you started undergoing the transition? because i wouldve never guessed you were transgendered when i met you.

i started taking hormones when i was 19 so it's been about five years now

also thank you :)

*edit* i also have been getting electrolysis since about three years ago although i haven't been getting it recently

-Blue7- 06-22-2018 07:11 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
wud u describe urself as a spiritual person/religious or neither :v?

the sun fan 06-22-2018 07:17 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
How much $ is electrolysis?

XelNya 06-22-2018 07:23 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
What was figuring out you wanted to go forward with it like for you? I'm curious of like how you approached telling yourself it's what you felt you needed to do to feel comfortable with who you are.

This is likely worded super shitty, and if it is, I'm sorry, I can't word it any better in my head x.x

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-22-2018 07:28 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by -Blue7- (Post 4624664)
wud u describe urself as a spiritual person/religious or neither :v?

i'm jewish and i'm religious but i almost never go to temple

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4624665)
How much $ is electrolysis?

it depends on the electrologist you go to and how much they charge and whether or not you have insurance

i go to a really well-known electrologist so she charges $100 (it might be $110 now) an hour and my insurance doesn't cover facial electrolysis the last time i checked, but i think Kaiser and some other insurance companies cover all forms of electrolysis

if you go to an electrologist who isn't as experienced and isn't as well-known, it's probably a lot less expensive like $60 or $40 an hour, but if they don't have a lot of experience with transgender mtf clients they probably won't do a good job since they're not used to getting rid of course, thicker hair i think on a regular basis

komochii 06-22-2018 07:40 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
are u cute

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-22-2018 08:15 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XelNya (Post 4624667)
What was figuring out you wanted to go forward with it like for you? I'm curious of like how you approached telling yourself it's what you felt you needed to do to feel comfortable with who you are.

This is likely worded super shitty, and if it is, I'm sorry, I can't word it any better in my head x.x

it's worded fine :)

well i always felt that i couldn't express myself as a girl because it wouldn't be accepted by society, so i never told anyone how i felt except for my mom, but she kept think it was a phase and even though i told her i connect more with girls than boys, she kept saying that girls can be just as mean as boys and that girls can be the same way as boys, and when i cried telling her how much i didn't want to have facial hair she just thought it was because most boys didn't like facial hair

i'm not trying to blame her, i'm just saying that that's why i felt like i couldn't express myself and why i didn't tell anyone else until 10th grade when i told my dad and brother and 12th grade when i told my best friend and my creative writing class

so until 10th grade i didn't feel like i could express myself as a girl and i kept how i felt to myself; however even though i always detested my body since i was little i didn't know i identified as a girl until 7th grade when the class was doing an assignment about what it would be like to be the opposite gender for a day and i thought to myself, "i'm already a girl" and smiled to myself

also in high school even though i kept my feelings to myself i tried to be more feminine by practicing "walking like a girl" and changing my writing to be "feminine handwriting" and even using more "feminine words" which is silly because i've always been a girl and i don't need to change the way i do anything to be what society views as feminine

so by the time i was almost finished with high school i had enough of hiding who i really am and not expressing myself and i promised myself i would start expressing myself as a girl as soon as college started and i started wearing feminine clothes and taking hormones a year later and changing my legal name and telling all my teachers to call me Rebecca until i could finally change my legal name at my college

Quote:

Originally Posted by komochii (Post 4624669)
are u cute

that's an opinion

Funnygurl555 06-22-2018 08:43 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
if gender is a social construct in and of itself, then how can you feel like another social construct?

i don't mean this in a way to illegitimize your feelings or identity. this was something i was always curious about

tosh 06-22-2018 10:19 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
I might also be able to give a hand on some questions if drizzle gets overwhelmed.

Except for the social construct question because frankly I haven't delved much into gender studies, so I can't help much there.

the sun fan 06-22-2018 10:52 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624672)
if gender is a social construct in and of itself, then how can you feel like another social construct?

i don't mean this in a way to illegitimize your feelings or identity. this was something i was always curious about

damn, you stole about half of my 2nd question

guess I need a new one

...

has your transition gone well outside of your family?

How readily did the teachers call you Rebecca?

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-23-2018 02:52 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624672)
if gender is a social construct in and of itself, then how can you feel like another social construct?

i don't mean this in a way to illegitimize your feelings or identity. this was something i was always curious about

because being a girl makes me happy; maybe it's because being a girl is a way to express that i'm female and that i like being female; i'm not sure though

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4624682)
damn, you stole about half of my 2nd question

guess I need a new one

...

has your transition gone well outside of your family?

How readily did the teachers call you Rebecca?

you can still ask the second half of your 2nd question if you want :)

my transition went really well outside of my family; i was never bullied or openly made fun of (although sometimes people were either laughing or staring behind my back before i looked like a girl i think, although i didn't pay that much attention) and i was never put in any danger and for the first year before i started taking hormones people just thought i looked weird or didn't notice probably but no one said anything and in two years or so everyone saw me as a girl anyway

also all the teachers called me Rebecca all the time since i e-mailed them before class started and asked them to call me Rebecca

also tosh you're transgender?

the sun fan 06-23-2018 04:22 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624695)
you can still ask the second half of your 2nd question if you want :)

was just wondering what you thought of certain genders that don't have an equivalent in the West

AutotelicBrown 06-23-2018 04:32 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
How and when did you choose Rebecca to be your name?

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-23-2018 07:32 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4624726)
was just wondering what you thought of certain genders that don't have an equivalent in the West

like what? i've heard of a third gender in a religion in India i think which i think is really cool but i forgot which religion exactly or what the gender is called

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutotelicBrown (Post 4624727)
How and when did you choose Rebecca to be your name?

my mom wanted to name me either Rebecca or Megan if i was born physically female and my dad originally wanted to name me Ariel after The Little Mermaid but my mom wouldn't accept that so he was going to name me Ariana instead but i don't like any of the other names besides Rebecca and i love the name Rebecca

the sun fan 06-23-2018 07:34 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624731)
like what? i've heard of a third gender in a religion in India i think which i think is really cool but i forgot which religion exactly or what the gender is called

there's probably too many to list so I suppose I'd change the question to the concept(?) of having different genders in different cultures

was always something that was neat to me but I'm not exactly sure how to phrase/ask a question about it I suppose

AutotelicBrown 06-23-2018 07:44 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624731)
my mom wanted to name me either Rebecca or Megan if i was born physically female and my dad originally wanted to name me Ariel after The Little Mermaid but my mom wouldn't accept that so he was going to name me Ariana instead but i don't like any of the other names besides Rebecca and i love the name Rebecca

Rebecca is a great name!

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-23-2018 07:45 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4624732)
there's probably too many to list so I suppose I'd change the question to the concept(?) of having different genders in different cultures

was always something that was neat to me but I'm not exactly sure how to phrase/ask a question about it I suppose

i think it's wonderful; i like that there are different genders in different cultures especially when people don't identify with the genders in society and they feel like they don't belong

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutotelicBrown (Post 4624734)
Rebecca is a great name!

thank you :)

Ghost_Medley 06-23-2018 11:25 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Another trans person coming in with a question to another:

What is your experience with body hair like? I am kind of manic about it, a more minor case of TTM/DTM, though with electrolysis that should be a lesser issue for you.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-24-2018 03:17 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost_Medley (Post 4624750)
Another trans person coming in with a question to another:

What is your experience with body hair like? I am kind of manic about it, a more minor case of TTM/DTM, though with electrolysis that should be a lesser issue for you.

i couldn't stand all the hair on my legs before i started taking hormones so i used to shave it every once in awhile but after i started taking hormones for 6-12 months there has been a lot less hair on my legs even when i don't shave

i also detested the hair on my face so i kept shaving it every day and every once in awhile i accidentally cut my face a little and about two years after i started taking hormones i cut my face that day and i was on the bus with someone in one of my classes and we were talking and she noticed i had a cut on my face and she asked how it happened and thought it was because i got an injury so i ended up crying in front of her and i decided i would get electrolysis

i've been getting electrolysis for about two years total not including the time i've been getting it on and off and the hair on my face is almost completely gone even after 6 months or so :)

*edit* also it's really annoying getting electrolysis because it takes a long time for the hair on my face to stop growing back so i feel the hair on my face to see how much hair is left even right after electrolysis because even after 3 or 4 hours they don't get every single hair

andy-o24 06-24-2018 01:50 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Born male transitioned to female, what gender are you attracted to romantically?

-o24

komochii 06-24-2018 01:59 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
All of them

-o24

Hakulyte 06-24-2018 07:21 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624672)
if gender is a social construct in and of itself, then how can you feel like another social construct?

In the transgender context, I believe it's a realization after facing enough situations to evaluate yourself and making enough connections that it doesn't make sense to feel any other way.

So, you don't "feel like another social construct"; you simply realize that the other social construct had more weight than the initial one for yourself.

btw, gender is used to identify a group while gender identity is used to identify the individual.

It's a little weird to formulate your question that way.

Gender identity is what should truly matter for this question, but gender identity is not a social construct.

I hope I'm not confusing with terminology.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-24-2018 08:33 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4624773)
Born male transitioned to female, what gender are you attracted to romantically?

-o24

i'm attracted to boys

Funnygurl555 06-25-2018 07:47 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624795)
In the transgender context, I believe it's a realization after facing enough situations to evaluate yourself and making enough connections that it doesn't make sense to feel any other way.

So, you don't "feel like another social construct"; you simply realize that the other social construct had more weight than the initial one for yourself.

btw, gender is used to identify a group while gender identity is used to identify the individual.

It's a little weird to formulate your question that way.

Gender identity is what should truly matter for this question, but gender identity is not a social construct.

I hope I'm not confusing with terminology.

Oh okay. IDK much about gender studies and stuff, so sorry if I'm using terms incorrectly. Why is gender identity not a social construct?

mellonxcollie 06-25-2018 11:10 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Disclaimer: I am not trans. Just feminist trying to explain as best I can

Back in the day people considered gender to be a binary thing. You were either male or female, and this gender was based on your biological sex characteristics. Nowadays people realize that gender isn't binary, it's a spectrum, and people can land on the spectrum pretty much anywhere.

Gender identity is realizing for yourself where you, personally, fit into the gender spectrum of society. The spectrum itself is a construct but your gender identity is something you find for yourself, about where you fit into that construct personally.

A lot of people consider themselves to be "non-binary" people. and this just means they either don't believe in the gender binary/societal constructs, or they believe they do not have a place within them and they do not fit society's traditional male/female constructs.

dadcop2 06-25-2018 07:52 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
damn u must be on another spectrum to be this woke

Hakulyte 06-25-2018 07:58 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624859)
Oh okay. IDK much about gender studies and stuff, so sorry if I'm using terms incorrectly. Why is gender identity not a social construct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624860)
Gender identity is realizing for yourself where you, personally, fit into the gender spectrum of society. The spectrum itself is a construct but your gender identity is something you find for yourself, about where you fit into that construct personally.

A lot of people consider themselves to be "non-binary" people. and this just means they either don't believe in the gender binary/societal constructs, or they believe they do not have a place within them and they do not fit society's traditional male/female constructs.

That's pretty much it.

rayword45 06-25-2018 10:16 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dadcop2 (Post 4624867)
damn u must be on another spectrum to be this woke

are these the jokes we're gonna get when the alt-whiteys become dads

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 12:42 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624859)
Oh okay. IDK much about gender studies and stuff, so sorry if I'm using terms incorrectly. Why is gender identity not a social construct?

ivy

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 12:43 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
i mean gravy

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:46 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
someone please ask me something else D:

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 12:47 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
news flash reality is a social construct

we're all just metanthropromorphized marbles bumping into a deterministic set of pegs as you non-metaphorically fall to death

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 01:21 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624860)
Back in the day people considered gender to be a binary thing. You were either male or female, and this gender was based on your biological sex characteristics. Nowadays people realize that gender isn't binary, it's a spectrum, and people can land on the spectrum pretty much anywhere.

unsurprisingly the only thing going on in this thread is tautological semantic balloons being twisted into various metaphors or idioms such as chickens and/or eggs and hamster wheels, so I'll do my part. You[people/society] can't realize something about a social construct. You can realize effects or causes or trends or deficiencies in current systems but you can't realize that gender is or isn't something else because society created it, there's nothing external to the definition of it in the conscious frame of society to realize. You can't realize that, actually, there are only 6 languages (i'm warning you don't bring this example up to a linguist.) That doesn't make sense. The biological need for specialization directed early roles of males/females in nomadic cultures. Society created gender as sex became obsolete. It's whatever we want it to be. It exists to allow us a malleable format of an intrinsic biological property that we may adjust as needed. There's nothing to realize about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624860)
Gender identity is realizing for yourself where you, personally, fit into the gender spectrum of society. The spectrum itself is a construct but your gender identity is something you find for yourself, about where you fit into that construct personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624795)
Gender identity is what should truly matter for this question, but gender identity is not a social construct.

anything derivative of an existing social construct is by definition a social construct so i don't see where this thread of logic goes or what the point is

oh wait i do it's just thought-acidic pablum to be regurgitated after ingesting any stimulus of thought for fear of retaining any of it

that's definitely not a bulimia joke

actually it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624860)
A lot of people consider themselves to be "non-binary" people. and this just means they either don't believe in the gender binary/societal constructs, or they believe they do not have a place within them and they do not fit society's traditional male/female constructs.

i don't necessarily disagree with you on the general points here but i still think you're an idiot

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 01:36 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624859)
Oh okay. IDK much about gender studies and stuff, so sorry if I'm using terms incorrectly. Why is gender identity not a social construct?

tbh this is probably the best post in the thread, that's a low bar for the rest of you

i never understood how people who say we shouldn't be defined by traditional gender roles can spend their entire lives defining themselves relative to traditional gender roles with zero self awareness

tl;dr you're all dumb and why do you care so much

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 01:50 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624881)
someone please ask me something else D:

why aren't people more capable of forcefully advocating positions on this subject

trick question people are stupid

no seriously though it's legitimately baffling to me

Funnygurl555 06-26-2018 01:55 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
who hurt you

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 01:59 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Mina is right.

#end of argument

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 02:01 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4624889)
who hurt you

oh sorry i must not have gotten the memo where i wasn't supposed to spend half the thread hammering both incorrectly and pointlessly on syntactic liberties

does this memo also say that we should continue the dynamic where i make rational arguments and you get butthurt because i say something you don't like or are we shivving that

Funnygurl555 06-26-2018 02:09 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
jeez dude. i clearly know nothing about this stuff, which is why i'm asking questions. i don't care if you're right or wrong

just learn to be nice or something

i'm not gonna derail drizzle's thread, so i'll refrain from posting more.

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 02:10 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624890)
Mina is right.

#end of argument

no really though

whenever i see these kinds of discussions and arguments involving the general social fabric (feminism/politics/gender/etc) each side is just making arguments they think are convincing, which makes sense for internal cohesiveness but when you actually want to change things on a larger scale you don't get anywhere

i don't get it

if you want to argue that gender needs to expand beyond the biology it was based on and that society at large should accept this you need to be able to have a coherent argument that can't be picked apart with semantic quibbling

there are churdturds out there who actually think the entire concept of being trans is just a giant liberal lie so that people can play peeping tom in the women's bathroom

sure the idea that "GENDER IS WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE" plays well in some circles but when you make that argument without any substantive logical threads attached you just reaffirm in their minds that this is just a giant joke

it also doesn't help that a significant number of lgbtq activists will immediately shut down at any mention of biological differences, i mean, that's understandable to a certain degree, but it really doesn't help when you refuse to entertain basic biological facts that are the foundation of the existing structures of society you want to change

Moria 06-26-2018 02:47 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
I stick to the word sex rather than gender to save the sociocultural shitstorm of confusion caused people expressing their identity. can't fuck with a dichotomy but people are free to be what they want if their gender is important to them i guess who cares

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 03:00 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624893)
if you want to argue that gender needs to expand beyond the biology it was based on and that society at large should accept this you need to be able to have a coherent argument that can't be picked apart with semantic quibbling

Gender doesn't need to be expanded, I believe it just needs to be understood better.

Well, I'm afraid I won't be able to argue with you unless I make up a system that could potentially be meaningful. (there's probably better already with advanced diagnostics)

So, let's assume someone has gender dysphoria, but everything is in their head and there's nothing that would be helpful to move forward.
I would ask that person to fill a form.
It would be a paper that's asking for multifactorial elements that are related to the appearance of gender dysphoria.
That someone shall declare that they are invested into a specific gender and that they want to sign up a "proclamation of gender misalignment".
This would later on be analyzed by a gendertherapist who would meet up with said person and reaffirm that the intentions are the source and not some remnants of another issue.

If the gendertherapist can break the logic to the point where the patient's perspective become invalidated, they wouldn't be able to continue on.

The paper would contain the following:

A) When did you notice gender dysphoria started ?
B) How did it affect your life ?
C) Can you make connections with the past and the present about why you feel that way ?
D) Is there issues that could lead to this reality being a false positive ? (doubts/concerns)
etc. etc.

Basically, all of this is supposed to help understand the person's gender identity/perspective about themselves while being here to make sure they filter information properly.
It would force the person to develop on events/experiences and reach a more solid ground.

Once you're past that point assuming the practice has good standards/conventions/ethics that I have yet to explain in details, you should be in a good spot.

Now, why am I saying all of this ?

It's because gender identity "in the transgender context" is affected by how you view yourself and how you view yourself can be affected by how you view society and role models etc.

By asking you to write up a lot of information about yourself, the data can be read to have a general grasp of where the person's life at and what are their intentions.

I don't like thinking about gender identity being a social construct because the moment you look outside of your own country, you can see multiple different realities.
That is wrong tho and it doesn't really matter either way. It's just the good old nature vs nurture debate.
As long as your motivations are the right ones, this shouldn't matter.

I personally believe in a more eclectic approach than just relying on society, but both are valid. Preferably together.

So yeah, I guess I haven't managed to come up with some badass system that's better than the current one, but if you wanted a quick chit chat response to entertain yourself go ahead.

komochii 06-26-2018 04:03 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Apparently hormones are just social constructs and estrogen and testosterone are the same thing

infinity. 06-26-2018 09:21 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624883)
unsurprisingly the only thing going on in this thread is tautological semantic balloons being twisted into various metaphors or idioms such as chickens and/or eggs and hamster wheels, so I'll do my part. You[people/society] can't realize something about a social construct. You can realize effects or causes or trends or deficiencies in current systems but you can't realize that gender is or isn't something else because society created it, there's nothing external to the definition of it in the conscious frame of society to realize. You can't realize that, actually, there are only 6 languages (i'm warning you don't bring this example up to a linguist.) That doesn't make sense. The biological need for specialization directed early roles of males/females in nomadic cultures. Society created gender as sex became obsolete. It's whatever we want it to be. It exists to allow us a malleable format of an intrinsic biological property that we may adjust as needed. There's nothing to realize about it.





anything derivative of an existing social construct is by definition a social construct so i don't see where this thread of logic goes or what the point is

oh wait i do it's just thought-acidic pablum to be regurgitated after ingesting any stimulus of thought for fear of retaining any of it

that's definitely not a bulimia joke

actually it is



i don't necessarily disagree with you on the general points here but i still think you're an idiot

similarly its really tough to argue with someone that just throws around pretentious words to seem smarter lol

i published a long paper on gender norms in china a few years ago and found this to be the most impactful reading on how we should think about gender. think of it as a nexus between performativity and cosmology. transition in this sense is an interesting topic because its proactively trying to reshape how you exist in the world and how the world perceives you through performing differently, but imo its do-able

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 09:38 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
...no seriously someone please ask me something else D:

i'm more than happy to answer any questions about being transgender :)

also wow 10 guests O.o

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 09:53 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624932)
...no seriously someone please ask me something else D:

i'm more than happy to answer any questions about being transgender :)

also wow 10 guests O.o

Here's a few ones:

Do you feel like society is outdated in what it means to be one gender or the other ? If so, how and why ?

Do you feel like you're reinventing gender by transitioning ?

How would you feel if someone told you you're simply a man who believes they are a woman ?

mellonxcollie 06-26-2018 10:04 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624891)
oh sorry i must not have gotten the memo where i wasn't supposed to spend half the thread hammering both incorrectly and pointlessly on syntactic liberties

does this memo also say that we should continue the dynamic where i make rational arguments and you get butthurt because i say something you don't like or are we shivving that

Don't post in drizzles threads. You're not welcome here and neither is your opinion. This is her thread for her to answer questions. It's not a debate thread. Refrain from posting anything else

lofty rhino 06-26-2018 10:43 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624936)
Don't post in drizzles threads. You're not welcome here and neither is your opinion. This is her thread for her to answer questions. It's not a debate thread. Refrain from posting anything else

You are literally proving his point by saying this.
Drizzlegirl will not be able to handpick the questions she will face in the physical world. It'd be better for her to be able to address people like Mina than to just ignore him. If she is confident in her reality, she should have the answers. If she doesn't, she might think about doing some reflection on the topic.

Btw I'm unsure about why drizzle keeps asking for further questions. If you want to be accepted and treated normally, why are you, at the same time, drawing so much attention to yourself. People already asked the typical questions one might have, unprompted. There should be no need to beg people to ask you questions four times in three pages, especially when the thread title dictates that's what users do.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 10:50 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624934)
Here's a few ones:

Do you feel like society is outdated in what it means to be one gender or the other ? If so, how and why ?

Do you feel like you're reinventing gender by transitioning ?

How would you feel if someone told you you're simply a man who believes they are a woman ?

yay more questions! :D thank you :)

1. no, everyone can have their own idea of what gender means to them and one point of view isn't any less valid than another point of view IMO; what isn't valid IMO is society claiming that genders have to act a certain way or that your physical sex defines your gender

2. no, at least not in my case because i'm a girl who was born in a male body so i still identify as a gender that has already been defined; however i am helping change the idea that your physical sex determines your gender because i believe i'm female on the inside and that i should have been born physically female

3. in the past whenever i read that i would feel unbelievably anxious and questioned whether i was really a girl in my heart multiple times because i wanted to reaffirm that i really felt that way but i'm a lot more sure how i feel now and i don't feel like i need to do that anymore so i would probably feel attacked and try to either argue with them or just walk away but i would know they're wrong

also mina you're welcome to post here but please ask questions instead of arguing

rayword45 06-26-2018 10:54 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komochii (Post 4624919)
Apparently hormones are just social constructs and estrogen and testosterone are the same thing

why are these users with no posts coming in to make unfunny jokes

nobody is triggered, snowflake, you just look like a jackass

It's too bad everyone on this damn site has an anime pic

I have far less of an issue with Minas posts, you ought to be focusing on low-tier-humor trolls like this fuck

SKG_Scintill 06-26-2018 11:11 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
did your transgenderness solve any internal struggles?
if so, would these struggles return if you had to choose a gender and how/why?
or is it more about the relief of accepting who you are?

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 11:53 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infinity. (Post 4624931)
similarly its really tough to argue with someone that just throws around pretentious words to seem smarter lol

i published a long paper on gender norms in china a few years ago and found this to be the most impactful reading on how we should think about gender. think of it as a nexus between performativity and cosmology. transition in this sense is an interesting topic because its proactively trying to reshape how you exist in the world and how the world perceives you through performing differently, but imo its do-able

it's really really funny that you would accuse me of only throwing around pretentious words to seem smarter and then link an mit article like that makes you smarter

even funnier is the fact that the entire first section of the paper you linked is devoted to asking fundamental questions about what things are so that we may properly define them and create a common frame of thought so we understand what we mean and what other people mean when discussing these issues

so that you know, you don't go around in circles with different people having different definitions or ideas of what social constructs are and what that means and then having discussions where nobody is on the same page and nothing said is worth anything

or in other words

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624914)
Well, I'm afraid I won't be able to argue with you unless I make up a system that could potentially be meaningful.

you know, the point i've been trying to drive home the entire time

anyway, it's almost like infinity butted into the thread to

a) white knight
b) accuse me of trying to look smart for 'pretentiously' using big words that you didn't understand, but you're just scapegoating that because you didn't understand my point either and now you feel bad so you
c) claim to have written a lengthy paper but instead opt to link someone else's words and thoughts which you clearly fundamentally misunderstood in order to avoid that nagging insecurity that you have that you don't know shit and i'm right

i'd call that classic projection but maybe ideas are too pretentious for you and things having common definitions is too normal

ps. link your paper

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 11:54 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lofty rhino (Post 4624939)
You are literally proving his point by saying this.
Drizzlegirl will not be able to handpick the questions she will face in the physical world. It'd be better for her to be able to address people like Mina than to just ignore him. If she is confident in her reality, she should have the answers. If she doesn't, she might think about doing some reflection on the topic.

Btw I'm unsure about why drizzle keeps asking for further questions. If you want to be accepted and treated normally, why are you, at the same time, drawing so much attention to yourself. People already asked the typical questions one might have, unprompted. There should be no need to beg people to ask you questions four times in three pages, especially when the thread title dictates that's what users do.

but mina isn't arguing about being transgender; she's arguing about how people should have logical arguments if they say that gender or gender identity isn't based on social constructs or that there are other genders besides the genders defined by society i think

i like answering questions; it's fun :) and i already am accepted and treated normally on FFR or at least tolerated; i'm not answering questions to be accepted or treated normally

i'm telling people to ask more questions because it's fun and people were arguing about other things for awhile



also mina if you want to keep arguing please make a new thread; you're welcome to ask me questions though :)

komochii 06-26-2018 12:04 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
mina has her profile listed as female, mina confirmed best girl

edit: also dont worry this is the same community that like, puts on their resume "was able to hold a conversation with mina about stepmania" so i mean, lolz doesnt really matter what they think

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 12:16 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
i'm not arguing, there's no argument here; no point or query i've made has been substantively responded to

i'm simply pointing out that it seems like a lot of discussion around gender ends up with semantic knot twisting and that's painfully obvious throughout this thread and that i personally do not understand why there isn't a more academic(oh no!!!!!) framework for discussing it and i want to know why

if the broader goal is to seamlessly integrate into the rest of society antagonizing everyone who doesn't understand your perspective or point of view asking probative questions seems to be an unhelpful reaction

is that even your broader goal?

you can't have an ama thread and a discussion in which the response to questions you don't like or want to answer is "omg stop trying to be mean/smart!!!!", not that those were your responses specifically

if you want unconditional support and acceptance and are unwilling to make the case for people who aren't currently giving it to you then you should just stay in some discord with those who will and ban anyone who even remotely approaches an offensive remark

so i guess i don't understand why you made the thread here as an ama if you (again not specifically you, this critique expands to others here) were unwilling or unable to manage any confrontation

i also feel the need to point out the obvious fact that it's very hard to answer questions if everyone has different ideas of what things mean, but i mean, i've been doing that, and i guess i'm bad because nobody's getting it

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:25 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624960)
i'm not arguing, there's no argument here; no point or query i've made has been substantively responded to

i'm simply pointing out that it seems like a lot of discussion around gender ends up with semantic knot twisting and that's painfully obvious throughout this thread and that i personally do not understand why there isn't a more academic(oh no!!!!!) framework for discussing it and i want to know why

if the broader goal is to seamlessly integrate into the rest of society antagonizing everyone who doesn't understand your perspective or point of view asking probative questions seems to be an unhelpful reaction

is that even your broader goal?

you can't have an ama thread and a discussion in which the response to questions you don't like or want to answer is "omg stop trying to be mean/smart!!!!", not that those were your responses specifically

if you want unconditional support and acceptance and are unwilling to make the case for people who aren't currently giving it to you then you should just stay in some discord with those who will and ban anyone who even remotely approaches an offensive remark

so i guess i don't understand why you made the thread here as an ama if you (again not specifically you, this critique expands to others here) were unwilling or unable to manage any confrontation

i also feel the need to point out the obvious fact that it's very hard to answer questions if everyone has different ideas of what things mean, but i mean, i've been doing that, and i guess i'm bad because nobody's getting it

i'm answering questions because it's fun and i like telling people about my experience with being transgender; i don't have a broader goal

and i am answering all the questions directed towards me; i just don't want you to comment on topics that aren't related to this thread

Celirra 06-26-2018 12:38 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Sorry in advance if I use any ungood terms here

I've heard mentioned the idea of segregating pride events between sexuality and gender identity instead of having one all-encompassing event to celebrate both sides; do you have a stance on the matter? I've never attended a pride rally so I'm not sure if there's distinction already, and I also don't know if it's really important to celebrate both separately, but would be curious to hear your take on it.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:43 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624944)
did your transgenderness solve any internal struggles?
if so, would these struggles return if you had to choose a gender and how/why?
or is it more about the relief of accepting who you are?

yeah, it made me realize why i detested the masculine parts of my body, and taking hormones makes me happier :)

well i'm still having internal struggles because i haven't had the surgery yet and i don't have periods and i'm not completely finished with facial electrolysis and if i stopped taking hormones my body would revert back to being masculine etc. but i'm a girl so having to choose that i'm a girl wouldn't be a struggle at all

but i'm also extremely relieved that i don't have to hide how i feel anymore and i don't have to question myself and i can express myself as a girl

so it both solved internal struggles and made me relieved

PixlSM 06-26-2018 12:48 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rayword45 (Post 4624941)
why are these users with no posts coming in to make unfunny jokes

im pretty sure thats just dingles on his 8th new account, not a real new user

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:58 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celirra (Post 4624962)
Sorry in advance if I use any ungood terms here

I've heard mentioned the idea of segregating pride events between sexuality and gender identity instead of having one all-encompassing event to celebrate both sides; do you have a stance on the matter? I've never attended a pride rally so I'm not sure if there's distinction already, and I also don't know if it's really important to celebrate both separately, but would be curious to hear your take on it.

you didn't use any terms incorrectly :) sexuality is who you're attracted to and gender identity is the gender you feel you are inside

i've never attended a LGBTQA+ pride rally but they do have different meanings; i think it's fine to celebrate both in the same rally and to celebrate them separately as long as people understand both terms and celebrate everyone; also i think wikipedia probably defines human sexuality better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

mellonxcollie 06-26-2018 01:06 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Here's my question for Drizz (sorry if it's a hard question):

Is there anything you would do differently if you were able to start your transition completely over? As in, is there anything that didn't go as well as you had hoped or that you wish you hadn't done? If you were giving someone else advice, what would you tell to avoid doing?

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 01:15 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624960)
i'm simply pointing out that it seems like a lot of discussion around gender ends up with semantic knot twisting and that's painfully obvious throughout this thread and that i personally do not understand why there isn't a more academic(oh no!!!!!) framework for discussing it and i want to know why

I think we just forgot to establish a common ground before discussing.

or

The point of the thread is to establish that common ground in the first place by asking questions.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 01:59 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624966)
Here's my question for Drizz (sorry if it's a hard question):

Is there anything you would do differently if you were able to start your transition completely over? As in, is there anything that didn't go as well as you had hoped or that you wish you hadn't done? If you were giving someone else advice, what would you tell to avoid doing?

thank you; this is a really fun question :)

i would transition much earlier before i actually went through male puberty and i would tell all my family and friends and everyone in my classes in school including all my teachers because some friends i have still don't know i'm transgender since i haven't seen them in like 10 years and i want everyone i know personally to know i'm transgender

i didn't tell my dad and brother i'm transgender until 10th grade in 2009 or 2010 and even though i kept telling my mom i felt closer to girls she thought it was just a phase and didn't really believe me until after i started transitioning when college started

i just think things could have been different if i told my family earlier because my mom still mourns "the old me" because before i transitioned i used to be a lot more passive and antisocial and reserved on the outside except with my best friend and now i'm a lot more opinionated and expressive and i share my emotions more often so i'm a completely different person according to her and she said she had to accept me as a new person

my brother accepted me right away but he didn't want me to go near his friends or school after i started transitioning because he was worried they wouldn't want to be his friend anymore if they knew i was his sister and i still looked like a man back then and i was wearing feminine clothes; after a few years though he didn't care as much what other people would think and he let me go near his friends and school again

my dad thinks the hormones made my thought-process cloudy and i'm less logical and less able to understand what people are saying :( because apparently i used to understand him a lot more and was able to have intelligent conversations with him; maybe if i took hormones a lot earlier he wouldn't think that

also when i visited my high school after i started transitioning in college i told almost all of my teachers a teacher from high school said something like "you can be whatever you want to be" and some other teachers thought i was weird and a student from marching band and drumline made fun of me

i would also see an endocrinologist instead of a urologist because my urologist prescribes hormones and checks my levels but he's not a hormone specialist and he's a well-known doctor so i can only see him once every six months or even later

i would also be able to express myself and i wouldn't have to hide how i felt for so long

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 02:09 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624969)
I think we just forgot to establish a common ground before discussing.

or

The point of the thread is to establish that common ground in the first place by asking questions.

i mean it depends on your perspective

for op as best as i can tell the thread operates a mechanism by which she can force herself to deal with still unresolved inconsistencies in her subconscious

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624963)
well i'm still having internal struggles because i haven't had the surgery yet ... but i'm a girl so having to choose that i'm a girl wouldn't be a struggle at all

this is a pretty clear indicator of that

the process of inviting questions from others is a substitute for questions she doesn't want to ask herself or doesn't know how to ask herself and the rationalized answers will serve to reinforce strong positions and correct internal conflicts or equivocations either through rationalization or emotional reaction towards one extreme or another

im not here to look smart- that would require that on some level i ascribe any value to the opinions of others, i'm here to reaffirm my own belief that you're all stupid

and i do that by telling you what i think and why i think it and gauging your responses

whatever else the rest of you do or don't take away from that is up to you

SKG_Scintill 06-26-2018 02:36 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624963)
(...) i haven't had the surgery yet and i don't have periods (...)

first of all, neither my mother nor I knew that surgery has come so far as to give people periods.
does this mean that, when surgery is all said and done, you are given a functional womb and could give birth?

komochii 06-26-2018 02:42 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Personally I think people just get bored and justify their struggles by sharing them with others because if we don't share our goals and accomplishmentments they're meaningless but they're meaningless anyways, I doubt there's some ulterior motive to this thread, maybe they're just bored.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 02:44 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624973)
first of all, neither my mother nor I knew that surgery has come so far as to give people periods.
does this mean that, when surgery is all said and done, you are given a functional womb and could give birth?

it hasn't

they're just things i feel sad and left out about and don't accept so that's why i included not having periods and not being able to become pregnant as part of my internal struggle

SKG_Scintill 06-26-2018 02:55 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
well that is what we expected, thankfully we're not grossly behind with the times.
it was still a point of discussion here to think how we would/could/should react *when* science gets to that point.
I see that most of my confusion and perhaps even disapproval of the notion of transgenderism still revolves around sexual reproduction, but I suppose that's only a matter of time for science to improve to that point, which may well be in our lifetimes.
so for my own acceptance, better start early?

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 03:06 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624976)
well that is what we expected, thankfully we're not grossly behind with the times.
it was still a point of discussion here to think how we would/could/should react *when* science gets to that point.
I see that most of my confusion and perhaps even disapproval of the notion of transgenderism still revolves around sexual reproduction, but I suppose that's only a matter of time for science to improve to that point, which may well be in our lifetimes.
so for my own acceptance, better start early?

i would be overjoyed if that was possible :) and i think it would be a wonderful thing

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 03:24 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komochii (Post 4624974)
Personally I think people just get bored and justify their struggles by sharing them with others because if we don't share our goals and accomplishmentments they're meaningless but they're meaningless anyways, I doubt there's some ulterior motive to this thread, maybe they're just bored.

i didn't say it was conscious, and i didn't say it was nefarious

SKG_Scintill 06-26-2018 03:50 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624977)
i would be overjoyed if that was possible :) and i think it would be a wonderful thing

well my mom did ask "why on earth would you want periods?"
so at least from her perspective it doesn't look like a wonderful thing :P

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 04:34 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624976)
I see that most of my confusion and perhaps even disapproval of the notion of transgenderism still revolves around sexual reproduction

1) The social concept of gender is based on biological differentiation in the species that allowed for specialization in activities in nomadic tribes, increasing survival rates
2) Technology obsoletes the need for biological differentiation because it shifts the onus for survival to factors external to human physiology
3) It would be illogical to assume that gender roles based on biological differentiation would be efficient appropriate or healthy when the underlying factors that determined them no longer apply
4) Since gender is a social construct we are free to evaluate it at any time and determine how and if it can be adapted to best function within whatever current social framework we have
5) We should be able to do that

which leads me to
a) we can't do that if you refuse premise 1 because the functional justification for change is now obviated. You're back to we must change for the sake of change versus we must not change for the sake of not changing which goes nowhere.
b) we can't do if people revert to the "gender is whatever your mind says it is" argument because that premise denies the purpose of gender in the first place as well as any discussion of it, which is more or less the same argument as "because the bible said so" which again leads you nowhere
c) we can't do it if people skip steps 1-4 and jump right into what gender should or shouldn't be because it's illogical to construct a framework for something without understanding what it is or what it should do which you would think would raise a few red flags except it just leads to
d) everyone ends up with a nebulous, individualized rationales for what they want or what they want to see happen which results in personalized definitions of terms and then personalized constructions of concepts based on those terms and then more personalized terms based on those concepts, then they extend those concepts, terms, definitions, and ultimately their perspective to everyone around them without considering how other perspectives might be different resulting in
e) a distribution of thoughts and definitions that collapses into groups with the most commonality and sequesters dissenting thought into other similarly homogeneous spheres which means
f) the major shifts in the distribution occur not from members of each sphere being convinced to move, but by differential population growth within each sphere until one reaches a critical mass and can impose its ideology on the others; basically the dumbest possible way to effect any change in society which brings me back to
g) we need a formal, consistent, agreed upon set of definitions and rhetoric and be able to tie our viewpoints and perspectives to a rational justification that extends beyond the existing barriers which we can't do if
h) we don't have any rational justifications and our perspective is based on tautological semantics which anyone can poke an infinite amount of holes into that you refuse to acknowledge

im not going to sit here and link mit articles on how social change is most efficient bottom up instead of top down because that should be inherently obvious

it doesn't matter what the purpose of the thread is or whomever's perspective coming into it is but if the rest of you can't discuss the topic in a way that someone like scintill who is open to persuasion but can't find the thread of logic to be not only convinced, but capable of convincing others like himself then you're complicit in effecting circumstance f) by refusing to entertain g) by holding onto h).

In other words you're placing individual feel-good emotional expeditiousness and affirmation in front of societies affirmation of people like you, which stymies the progress of the latter, which drags out discrimination and bigotry against the former, which reinforces the barriers that everyone puts up which disproportionately damages the population seeking affirmation which ultimately ends up damaging you.

Which is stupid.

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 04:35 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
qed

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 04:55 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624980)
well my mom did ask "why on earth would you want periods?"
so at least from her perspective it doesn't look like a wonderful thing :P

well i want a period because most girls have them and because it's healthy and cleans out your system (except for girls who have serious health problems with their periods)

Moria 06-26-2018 05:10 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
chicken or beef? if meats not yo thing; soup or salad?

Sanjixcon 06-26-2018 05:15 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
what do you think about pronouns?

would you date another transgender?

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 05:16 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moria (Post 4624988)
chicken or beef? if meats not yo thing; soup or salad?

i don't like meat that much in general but i like chicken and i don't really like beef

also i love soup :D and i love it more than salad but i like caesar and greek salad a lot too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanjixcon (Post 4624989)
what do you think about pronouns?

would you date another transgender?

i think pronouns are really important because they represent that you accept how someone feels about themselves (if you use the pronouns that person wants to use)

and i would but only ftm transgender individuals since i only like boys (and by the way, it's rude to say transgender by itself; you probably wouldn't say "would you date another black?" so please say transgender person or transgender individual)

you could also say person/people who is/are transgender or individual(s) who is/are transgender as another way to be respectful

reuben_tate 06-26-2018 07:33 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
I know that there's been a push to the normalization of asking people about their pronouns when you first meet them (or telling them yours when you first meet them to encourage them to tell you theirs. An example being like "Hi, my name is Ben and I go by He/Him/His. And you?"

What do you think of this idea?

I know for some people in the LGBTQ+ community, this seems like a good idea since it allows us to avoid misgendering someone. However, I've also seen that some members of the trans community don't like being asked for their pronouns since the act of asking might indicate that they've been clocked.


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