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-   -   Transgender AMA (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=149294)

Funnygurl555 06-26-2018 02:09 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
jeez dude. i clearly know nothing about this stuff, which is why i'm asking questions. i don't care if you're right or wrong

just learn to be nice or something

i'm not gonna derail drizzle's thread, so i'll refrain from posting more.

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 02:10 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624890)
Mina is right.

#end of argument

no really though

whenever i see these kinds of discussions and arguments involving the general social fabric (feminism/politics/gender/etc) each side is just making arguments they think are convincing, which makes sense for internal cohesiveness but when you actually want to change things on a larger scale you don't get anywhere

i don't get it

if you want to argue that gender needs to expand beyond the biology it was based on and that society at large should accept this you need to be able to have a coherent argument that can't be picked apart with semantic quibbling

there are churdturds out there who actually think the entire concept of being trans is just a giant liberal lie so that people can play peeping tom in the women's bathroom

sure the idea that "GENDER IS WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE" plays well in some circles but when you make that argument without any substantive logical threads attached you just reaffirm in their minds that this is just a giant joke

it also doesn't help that a significant number of lgbtq activists will immediately shut down at any mention of biological differences, i mean, that's understandable to a certain degree, but it really doesn't help when you refuse to entertain basic biological facts that are the foundation of the existing structures of society you want to change

Moria 06-26-2018 02:47 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
I stick to the word sex rather than gender to save the sociocultural shitstorm of confusion caused people expressing their identity. can't fuck with a dichotomy but people are free to be what they want if their gender is important to them i guess who cares

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 03:00 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624893)
if you want to argue that gender needs to expand beyond the biology it was based on and that society at large should accept this you need to be able to have a coherent argument that can't be picked apart with semantic quibbling

Gender doesn't need to be expanded, I believe it just needs to be understood better.

Well, I'm afraid I won't be able to argue with you unless I make up a system that could potentially be meaningful. (there's probably better already with advanced diagnostics)

So, let's assume someone has gender dysphoria, but everything is in their head and there's nothing that would be helpful to move forward.
I would ask that person to fill a form.
It would be a paper that's asking for multifactorial elements that are related to the appearance of gender dysphoria.
That someone shall declare that they are invested into a specific gender and that they want to sign up a "proclamation of gender misalignment".
This would later on be analyzed by a gendertherapist who would meet up with said person and reaffirm that the intentions are the source and not some remnants of another issue.

If the gendertherapist can break the logic to the point where the patient's perspective become invalidated, they wouldn't be able to continue on.

The paper would contain the following:

A) When did you notice gender dysphoria started ?
B) How did it affect your life ?
C) Can you make connections with the past and the present about why you feel that way ?
D) Is there issues that could lead to this reality being a false positive ? (doubts/concerns)
etc. etc.

Basically, all of this is supposed to help understand the person's gender identity/perspective about themselves while being here to make sure they filter information properly.
It would force the person to develop on events/experiences and reach a more solid ground.

Once you're past that point assuming the practice has good standards/conventions/ethics that I have yet to explain in details, you should be in a good spot.

Now, why am I saying all of this ?

It's because gender identity "in the transgender context" is affected by how you view yourself and how you view yourself can be affected by how you view society and role models etc.

By asking you to write up a lot of information about yourself, the data can be read to have a general grasp of where the person's life at and what are their intentions.

I don't like thinking about gender identity being a social construct because the moment you look outside of your own country, you can see multiple different realities.
That is wrong tho and it doesn't really matter either way. It's just the good old nature vs nurture debate.
As long as your motivations are the right ones, this shouldn't matter.

I personally believe in a more eclectic approach than just relying on society, but both are valid. Preferably together.

So yeah, I guess I haven't managed to come up with some badass system that's better than the current one, but if you wanted a quick chit chat response to entertain yourself go ahead.

komochii 06-26-2018 04:03 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Apparently hormones are just social constructs and estrogen and testosterone are the same thing

infinity. 06-26-2018 09:21 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624883)
unsurprisingly the only thing going on in this thread is tautological semantic balloons being twisted into various metaphors or idioms such as chickens and/or eggs and hamster wheels, so I'll do my part. You[people/society] can't realize something about a social construct. You can realize effects or causes or trends or deficiencies in current systems but you can't realize that gender is or isn't something else because society created it, there's nothing external to the definition of it in the conscious frame of society to realize. You can't realize that, actually, there are only 6 languages (i'm warning you don't bring this example up to a linguist.) That doesn't make sense. The biological need for specialization directed early roles of males/females in nomadic cultures. Society created gender as sex became obsolete. It's whatever we want it to be. It exists to allow us a malleable format of an intrinsic biological property that we may adjust as needed. There's nothing to realize about it.





anything derivative of an existing social construct is by definition a social construct so i don't see where this thread of logic goes or what the point is

oh wait i do it's just thought-acidic pablum to be regurgitated after ingesting any stimulus of thought for fear of retaining any of it

that's definitely not a bulimia joke

actually it is



i don't necessarily disagree with you on the general points here but i still think you're an idiot

similarly its really tough to argue with someone that just throws around pretentious words to seem smarter lol

i published a long paper on gender norms in china a few years ago and found this to be the most impactful reading on how we should think about gender. think of it as a nexus between performativity and cosmology. transition in this sense is an interesting topic because its proactively trying to reshape how you exist in the world and how the world perceives you through performing differently, but imo its do-able

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 09:38 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
...no seriously someone please ask me something else D:

i'm more than happy to answer any questions about being transgender :)

also wow 10 guests O.o

Hakulyte 06-26-2018 09:53 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl (Post 4624932)
...no seriously someone please ask me something else D:

i'm more than happy to answer any questions about being transgender :)

also wow 10 guests O.o

Here's a few ones:

Do you feel like society is outdated in what it means to be one gender or the other ? If so, how and why ?

Do you feel like you're reinventing gender by transitioning ?

How would you feel if someone told you you're simply a man who believes they are a woman ?

mellonxcollie 06-26-2018 10:04 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624891)
oh sorry i must not have gotten the memo where i wasn't supposed to spend half the thread hammering both incorrectly and pointlessly on syntactic liberties

does this memo also say that we should continue the dynamic where i make rational arguments and you get butthurt because i say something you don't like or are we shivving that

Don't post in drizzles threads. You're not welcome here and neither is your opinion. This is her thread for her to answer questions. It's not a debate thread. Refrain from posting anything else

lofty rhino 06-26-2018 10:43 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie (Post 4624936)
Don't post in drizzles threads. You're not welcome here and neither is your opinion. This is her thread for her to answer questions. It's not a debate thread. Refrain from posting anything else

You are literally proving his point by saying this.
Drizzlegirl will not be able to handpick the questions she will face in the physical world. It'd be better for her to be able to address people like Mina than to just ignore him. If she is confident in her reality, she should have the answers. If she doesn't, she might think about doing some reflection on the topic.

Btw I'm unsure about why drizzle keeps asking for further questions. If you want to be accepted and treated normally, why are you, at the same time, drawing so much attention to yourself. People already asked the typical questions one might have, unprompted. There should be no need to beg people to ask you questions four times in three pages, especially when the thread title dictates that's what users do.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 10:50 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624934)
Here's a few ones:

Do you feel like society is outdated in what it means to be one gender or the other ? If so, how and why ?

Do you feel like you're reinventing gender by transitioning ?

How would you feel if someone told you you're simply a man who believes they are a woman ?

yay more questions! :D thank you :)

1. no, everyone can have their own idea of what gender means to them and one point of view isn't any less valid than another point of view IMO; what isn't valid IMO is society claiming that genders have to act a certain way or that your physical sex defines your gender

2. no, at least not in my case because i'm a girl who was born in a male body so i still identify as a gender that has already been defined; however i am helping change the idea that your physical sex determines your gender because i believe i'm female on the inside and that i should have been born physically female

3. in the past whenever i read that i would feel unbelievably anxious and questioned whether i was really a girl in my heart multiple times because i wanted to reaffirm that i really felt that way but i'm a lot more sure how i feel now and i don't feel like i need to do that anymore so i would probably feel attacked and try to either argue with them or just walk away but i would know they're wrong

also mina you're welcome to post here but please ask questions instead of arguing

rayword45 06-26-2018 10:54 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komochii (Post 4624919)
Apparently hormones are just social constructs and estrogen and testosterone are the same thing

why are these users with no posts coming in to make unfunny jokes

nobody is triggered, snowflake, you just look like a jackass

It's too bad everyone on this damn site has an anime pic

I have far less of an issue with Minas posts, you ought to be focusing on low-tier-humor trolls like this fuck

SKG_Scintill 06-26-2018 11:11 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
did your transgenderness solve any internal struggles?
if so, would these struggles return if you had to choose a gender and how/why?
or is it more about the relief of accepting who you are?

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 11:53 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infinity. (Post 4624931)
similarly its really tough to argue with someone that just throws around pretentious words to seem smarter lol

i published a long paper on gender norms in china a few years ago and found this to be the most impactful reading on how we should think about gender. think of it as a nexus between performativity and cosmology. transition in this sense is an interesting topic because its proactively trying to reshape how you exist in the world and how the world perceives you through performing differently, but imo its do-able

it's really really funny that you would accuse me of only throwing around pretentious words to seem smarter and then link an mit article like that makes you smarter

even funnier is the fact that the entire first section of the paper you linked is devoted to asking fundamental questions about what things are so that we may properly define them and create a common frame of thought so we understand what we mean and what other people mean when discussing these issues

so that you know, you don't go around in circles with different people having different definitions or ideas of what social constructs are and what that means and then having discussions where nobody is on the same page and nothing said is worth anything

or in other words

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4624914)
Well, I'm afraid I won't be able to argue with you unless I make up a system that could potentially be meaningful.

you know, the point i've been trying to drive home the entire time

anyway, it's almost like infinity butted into the thread to

a) white knight
b) accuse me of trying to look smart for 'pretentiously' using big words that you didn't understand, but you're just scapegoating that because you didn't understand my point either and now you feel bad so you
c) claim to have written a lengthy paper but instead opt to link someone else's words and thoughts which you clearly fundamentally misunderstood in order to avoid that nagging insecurity that you have that you don't know shit and i'm right

i'd call that classic projection but maybe ideas are too pretentious for you and things having common definitions is too normal

ps. link your paper

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 11:54 AM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lofty rhino (Post 4624939)
You are literally proving his point by saying this.
Drizzlegirl will not be able to handpick the questions she will face in the physical world. It'd be better for her to be able to address people like Mina than to just ignore him. If she is confident in her reality, she should have the answers. If she doesn't, she might think about doing some reflection on the topic.

Btw I'm unsure about why drizzle keeps asking for further questions. If you want to be accepted and treated normally, why are you, at the same time, drawing so much attention to yourself. People already asked the typical questions one might have, unprompted. There should be no need to beg people to ask you questions four times in three pages, especially when the thread title dictates that's what users do.

but mina isn't arguing about being transgender; she's arguing about how people should have logical arguments if they say that gender or gender identity isn't based on social constructs or that there are other genders besides the genders defined by society i think

i like answering questions; it's fun :) and i already am accepted and treated normally on FFR or at least tolerated; i'm not answering questions to be accepted or treated normally

i'm telling people to ask more questions because it's fun and people were arguing about other things for awhile



also mina if you want to keep arguing please make a new thread; you're welcome to ask me questions though :)

komochii 06-26-2018 12:04 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
mina has her profile listed as female, mina confirmed best girl

edit: also dont worry this is the same community that like, puts on their resume "was able to hold a conversation with mina about stepmania" so i mean, lolz doesnt really matter what they think

MinaciousGrace 06-26-2018 12:16 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
i'm not arguing, there's no argument here; no point or query i've made has been substantively responded to

i'm simply pointing out that it seems like a lot of discussion around gender ends up with semantic knot twisting and that's painfully obvious throughout this thread and that i personally do not understand why there isn't a more academic(oh no!!!!!) framework for discussing it and i want to know why

if the broader goal is to seamlessly integrate into the rest of society antagonizing everyone who doesn't understand your perspective or point of view asking probative questions seems to be an unhelpful reaction

is that even your broader goal?

you can't have an ama thread and a discussion in which the response to questions you don't like or want to answer is "omg stop trying to be mean/smart!!!!", not that those were your responses specifically

if you want unconditional support and acceptance and are unwilling to make the case for people who aren't currently giving it to you then you should just stay in some discord with those who will and ban anyone who even remotely approaches an offensive remark

so i guess i don't understand why you made the thread here as an ama if you (again not specifically you, this critique expands to others here) were unwilling or unable to manage any confrontation

i also feel the need to point out the obvious fact that it's very hard to answer questions if everyone has different ideas of what things mean, but i mean, i've been doing that, and i guess i'm bad because nobody's getting it

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:25 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace (Post 4624960)
i'm not arguing, there's no argument here; no point or query i've made has been substantively responded to

i'm simply pointing out that it seems like a lot of discussion around gender ends up with semantic knot twisting and that's painfully obvious throughout this thread and that i personally do not understand why there isn't a more academic(oh no!!!!!) framework for discussing it and i want to know why

if the broader goal is to seamlessly integrate into the rest of society antagonizing everyone who doesn't understand your perspective or point of view asking probative questions seems to be an unhelpful reaction

is that even your broader goal?

you can't have an ama thread and a discussion in which the response to questions you don't like or want to answer is "omg stop trying to be mean/smart!!!!", not that those were your responses specifically

if you want unconditional support and acceptance and are unwilling to make the case for people who aren't currently giving it to you then you should just stay in some discord with those who will and ban anyone who even remotely approaches an offensive remark

so i guess i don't understand why you made the thread here as an ama if you (again not specifically you, this critique expands to others here) were unwilling or unable to manage any confrontation

i also feel the need to point out the obvious fact that it's very hard to answer questions if everyone has different ideas of what things mean, but i mean, i've been doing that, and i guess i'm bad because nobody's getting it

i'm answering questions because it's fun and i like telling people about my experience with being transgender; i don't have a broader goal

and i am answering all the questions directed towards me; i just don't want you to comment on topics that aren't related to this thread

Celirra 06-26-2018 12:38 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Sorry in advance if I use any ungood terms here

I've heard mentioned the idea of segregating pride events between sexuality and gender identity instead of having one all-encompassing event to celebrate both sides; do you have a stance on the matter? I've never attended a pride rally so I'm not sure if there's distinction already, and I also don't know if it's really important to celebrate both separately, but would be curious to hear your take on it.

drizzleRomanceGirl 06-26-2018 12:43 PM

Re: Transgender AMA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 4624944)
did your transgenderness solve any internal struggles?
if so, would these struggles return if you had to choose a gender and how/why?
or is it more about the relief of accepting who you are?

yeah, it made me realize why i detested the masculine parts of my body, and taking hormones makes me happier :)

well i'm still having internal struggles because i haven't had the surgery yet and i don't have periods and i'm not completely finished with facial electrolysis and if i stopped taking hormones my body would revert back to being masculine etc. but i'm a girl so having to choose that i'm a girl wouldn't be a struggle at all

but i'm also extremely relieved that i don't have to hide how i feel anymore and i don't have to question myself and i can express myself as a girl

so it both solved internal struggles and made me relieved


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