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-   -   Does anything matter? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=143023)

-JiZ53- 10-12-2015 05:52 AM

Does anything matter?
 
Does anything matter? Does anything truly have inherent value?


If so, what and why?

Ohaider 10-12-2015 01:03 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 






For real, I don't think we can know. I think Earth in the scheme of the whole universe amounts to nothing at all, but we also have no idea what the whole universe amounts to or why it's even wherever or whatever it is, or if it has any inherent value. For all we know the universe could just be some non self aware cell type body among a trillion others in a vast other universe or entity... Kinda depressing when you consider how little humans know and will ever know in our lifetime atleast
Basically, no idea

awein999 10-12-2015 01:15 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 

rushyrulz 10-12-2015 01:18 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
because god
oh wait this is CT...

Things only matter in the sense of making our race last as long as possible, apart from that no, nothing matters.

Candor 10-12-2015 01:20 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
first find a way to live much longer than 100, then think of other things

rushyrulz 10-12-2015 01:26 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
I swear awein if that's Bohemian Rhapsody... I haven't clicked it yet but I swear to beelzebub..
edit: ok ur safe

Mourningfall 10-12-2015 01:59 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
On a cosmological scale, nothing we say or do, own or belong to really matters. We're as important as the speck of dust on the bottom of your shoe. But we don't live on a cosmological scale. For the most part we're a collective bacteria confined to an insignificant little ball in one of the least eventful reaches of space. So-

On a global scale and humanist standpoint, humanity matters considering humans are the dominant species. As a collective we're arbiters to the earths future. We've the power to heal it as well as destroy it. This is probably important to anyone concerned with the longevity of the human species.

On that note, clean water and food matters.

Science matters as a means to help us understand our past and determine our future.

Material possessions don't, neither do dolphins.

You matter.

Seriously, fuck dolphins.

Cheers, Synthlight.

ShadowDueler97 10-12-2015 02:43 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
AAA post awein

dashoe93 10-12-2015 03:31 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
no

ilikexd 10-12-2015 05:45 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Not sure if serious question but nothing has "inherent value" since the value of something exists in the subject who perceives it and not the object being perceived.

V-Ormix 10-12-2015 08:57 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25 (Post 4366045)
Yes, things matter, even if there isn't a universal scale of worth inherent in nature. Things matter because of people. You can argue that nothing ultimately matters because everybody dies someday, or because the earth is such a small and unimportant component in the universe, or because the universe will one day implode, but what about those eighty some odd years you have in between? The time you spend alive and what you leave behind for those that will be alive after you are what matter. There is inherent value in the things that contribute to the positive well-being of humanity on the micro (personal), meso (community, family, friends, etc), and macro (societal, human race as a whole) levels.

Well said. Honestly if nothing matters why not we all commit suicide, to imply that we small life forms relative to the complexity of our existence and vast scope of things we can be arrogant to yet claim to understand would have to bend the fabric of space in time with our own will (basically become a god or your life is worthless) sounds really impractical to me.

ilikexd 10-12-2015 10:20 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V-Ormix (Post 4366117)
Honestly if nothing matters why not we all commit suicide

Explain why nothing mattering would mean the absence of a reason to not commit suicide.

Dynam0 10-12-2015 10:32 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
If you kil yourself then you can't smoke weed anymore :{

V-Ormix 10-13-2015 06:02 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 4366152)
Explain why nothing mattering would mean the absence of a reason to not commit suicide.

Reasoning is a matter you take in your own hands, hell, we are made of matter. What I'm saying is there's no way to be alive were matter doesn't concern you. A statement to commit suicide is equally impractical as thinking there is some unequivocal "meaningless" denominator to everything.

Spenner 10-13-2015 10:37 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
It depends at which scale you are judging things. Too vast of a view of your actions or the collective actions that take place on earth, and no, they don't matter. But we're a system, a self perpetuating system that relies on everything within it to cooperate. Your actions matter in the sense that you can change things big or small with them. The end result of those actions could very well be a global change for the better, for example!!!

Things matter to me. I that it matters that we optimise things so that suffering can be avoided in areas big or small. Especially on the small. Little things like thoughts with a sour taste lead to massive amounts of suffering. It matters that we are helping each other enjoy the ride and to keep momentum somehow. Whether it's through posting and reflecting on things, or if you're actually out there doing things. THAT sort of thing might not matter-- how you do it-- but reciprocal altruism is a part of us at many scales.

Really to even begin to digest this question you need to break it up into something less broad and impossible to answer.

But I respect the existential impossibility of things mattering in scales the size of one universe or many. Although who's to say there's not a very important ripple effect we're amounting to, some many billions of years down the road. Don't think in terms of "when the universe ends, everything wouldn't have mattered"-- untrue. Things happened here, people lived, suffered, and went through many changes. These were things happening at the time, not at THAT time, when the universe has ended (if it does in many of the ways it could).

Also question your requirements for something to matter. In the present there are far more opportunities to realize that things can matter, unless you IMMEDIATELY toss it in the same boat with grandiose existentialism. Which is not a fair thing.

Maybe it's best not to worry so much if it matters in the grandest scheme of things. It's just not our territory. Don't let those anxieties intoxicate you.

Hakulyte 10-13-2015 11:26 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
The physiological needs like breathing, eating food, sleeping and staying healthy enough to be alive matters. If it truly didn't matter to you, you wouldn't be alive right now.

Also, what you need and what you think you need are the only things that could potentially confuse you about this topic. Once you're past preferences, this is pretty obvious stuff.

Refer to Maslow's pyramid if you want to google something related it.

High school tier question in Critical Thinking yay.

IamMe90 10-16-2015 08:51 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V-Ormix (Post 4366208)
Reasoning is a matter you take in your own hands, hell, we are made of matter. What I'm saying is there's no way to be alive were matter doesn't concern you. A statement to commit suicide is equally impractical as thinking there is some unequivocal "meaningless" denominator to everything.

what the hell

you know that there are two definitions of the word "matter" and that they aren't interchangeable right

Arch0wl 10-22-2015 02:55 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 4366086)
Not sure if serious question but nothing has "inherent value" since the value of something exists in the subject who perceives it and not the object being perceived.

this is the correct answer

alternatively, in case anyone has trouble understanding why it's right:

define "mattering". you won't be able to come up with anything consistent that applies outside of human biases.

llyair 10-24-2015 01:47 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
A lot of interesting points! :) But I think the concept that resonated with me was perception... I don't think we'd even be able to perceive something as "not mattering" unless we knew of something that mattered more.

Just like we couldn't perceive an enclosure as "dark" unless we were aware of the existence of light, and could perceive the darkness as an absence of light. It's relative, but implies that things do, in fact, matter.

As for the matter of inherent value, how can we possibly be an expert resource on assigning absolute value to things that, for all we know, exist according to the unexplored and unexplained phenomena of the entire universe, when we can't even perceive anything beyond 4 dimensions?

Ahaha bad pun / already used but couldn't help it! XD

V-Ormix 10-24-2015 06:01 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IamMe90 (Post 4366861)
what the hell

you know that there are two definitions of the word "matter" and that they aren't interchangeable right

Matter:

Noun: A physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy.

Verb: Be of importance; have significance.

Some thing that occupies physical space i.e. "matter" has significant value in that it isn't "nothing". Are you implying that because they are not "interchangeable" definitions I can't use both of them in the same sentence to describe each other?

edit: I'll just let you use common sense to digest weather or not I used both meanings in the same context.

stargroup100 11-16-2015 07:39 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch0wl (Post 4368574)
this is the correct answer

alternatively, in case anyone has trouble understanding why it's right:

define "mattering". you won't be able to come up with anything consistent that applies outside of human biases.

This is the best response in the entire thread because it essentially demonstrates why the question is nonsensical.

Reincarnate 11-16-2015 05:53 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Does survival matter to a virus?

Does wind erosion matter to a rock?

Nullifidian 11-17-2015 12:44 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
What are the other components he's asking then MrPop?

Anyway, picture the universe without any conscious being there to observe it. What would have value? What does that tell you about inherent value?

ilikexd 11-17-2015 03:58 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25 (Post 4377930)
How to live an everyday life, and what sorts of things should be valued to bring about that everyday life.

Like, I think the follow-up question would be "Okay, nothing has intrinsic worth and value is subjective, so then what should matter subjectively?" No matter how arbitrary value is, we still make these judgments of worth and need to understand how and why to figure out what matters to us. Like, even arch and stargroup saying that nothing has intrinsic value is the correct/best answer is a value judgment, meaning that certain answers matter more than others:

Sure, but that's a follow-up question and not some component of his original question, which is what you were claiming. The original question quite specifically asks about inherent (objective) value, so a short and simple answer doesn't stop short. The question of deriving subjective value in life is a whole other topic.

V-Ormix 11-17-2015 05:37 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
I think the fact that we exist enabling us to ask and discuss such a question matters in and of itself. To neglect ourselves as a component only opens the hypothetical paradigm were ironically we are trying to prove what some thing is isn't on both sides of the spectrum.

Yes, innately, an answer would imply personification of a beginning with no beginning vice versa a beginning that is by its very definition. How could some thing not have a beginning?

It seems their are two distinctly parallel perspectives who will never reach agreement making questions as these unanswerable much like the nature of our composition were it takes two terminals of positive and negative charge to arch existence giving energy.

ilikexd 11-17-2015 06:26 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V-Ormix (Post 4377981)
I think the fact that we exist enabling us to ask and discuss such a question matters in and of itself. To neglect ourselves as a component only opens the hypothetical paradigm were ironically we are trying to prove what some thing is isn't on both sides of the spectrum.

Yes, innately, an answer would imply personification of a beginning with no beginning vice versa a beginning that is by its very definition. How could some thing not have a beginning?

It seems their are two distinctly parallel perspectives who will never reach agreement making questions as these unanswerable much like the nature of our composition were it takes two terminals of positive and negative charge to arch existence giving energy.

That doesn't make any sense.

Hakulyte 11-17-2015 08:22 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Looks like my human view post is pointless, let's try again with a slightly more objective view.

"Nothing matters with only one known exception."

If a human being or any form of life with reasoning capabilities decide to assign matter a value and care about it, anything can matter (for them).

What matters is going to become directly interconnected to the being that care about it. It can be expanded to others through communication and become something that matters on a bigger scale.

Matter is a property which is assigned a value by something else, it cannot undeniably matter by itself. It's like trying to talk to someone except that there's no one to begin with.. you need at least two person to talk, or even one that could talk to itself, but talking become impossible if there's no one. Something can matter if you're alone, something can matter even more with multiple people, but nothing can matter if there's nothing to make it matter.

You guys will have fun for a long time if you try to find a yes/no answer to this.

ilikexd 11-17-2015 08:29 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4378012)
Looks like my human view post is pointless, let's try again with a slightly more objective view.

"Nothing matters with only one known exception."

If a human being or any form of life with reasoning capabilities decide to assign matter a value and care about it, anything can matter.

What matters is going to become directly interconnected to the being that care about it. It can be expanded to others through communication and become something that matter on a bigger scale.

Does that make things matter on an universal scale without any doubts?

No, because as I started with; "nothing matters" and this is just a man-made exception because we have the ability to create things that matter on a very small scale.

Matter is a property which is assigned a value by something else, it cannot undeniably matter by itself. It's like trying to talk to someone except that there's no one to begin with.. you need at least two person to talk, or even one that could talk to itself, but talking become impossible if there's no one. Something can matter if you're alone, something can matter even more with multiple people, but nothing can matter if there's nothing to make it matter.

You guys will have fun for a long time if you try to find a yes/no answer to this.

How is that an objective view? Your entire post is saying mattering is subjective.

Hakulyte 11-17-2015 08:32 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Oh okay then, nothing matters.

Nothing can matter because nothing can objectively make things matter.

Enjoy.

..and yes, mattering is entirely subjective according to me.

ilikexd 11-17-2015 08:38 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4378015)
Oh okay then, nothing matters.

Nothing can matter because nothing can objectively make things matter.

Enjoy.

No, things subjectively matter.

V-Ormix 11-17-2015 10:46 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 4377984)
That doesn't make any sense.

Well, I would imagine it wouldn't to you, as I mentioned "parallel perspectives" aka on different wave lengths.

this won't make sense to you either:

Semantics never do change meaning in actuality because even words matter...

ilikexd 11-17-2015 11:25 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
You're right, that didn't make sense either.

Semantics is meaning as it exists in language. So what you basically just said is "Meanings never change meaning", which is nonsensical.

As far as parallel perspectives and different wavelengths, that's just word salad. If you're trying to make a metaphor for something you'll need to rephrase or just be more straightforward.

V-Ormix 11-17-2015 11:41 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 4378048)
You're right, that didn't make sense either.

Semantics is meaning as it exists in language. So what you basically just said is "Meanings never change meaning", which is nonsensical.

As far as parallel perspectives and different wavelengths, that's just word salad. If you're trying to make a metaphor for something you'll need to rephrase or just be more straightforward.

Okay so what even is a word salad? I might not want your advice for metaphors... I think I'll use what words express my thoughts best thank you.

Semantics is a branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning to be more specific, thus it might be "logical" that in the context that I used semantics was to refer to some one using words only in a means to manipulate the sum of the parts in their sentence structure so they "can't" be wrong.

stargroup100 11-18-2015 12:03 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V-Ormix (Post 4378050)
Okay so what even is a word salad?

The composition of literal objects in a literary vacuum holds relevance only when the inherent structure of its intended constituents are bonded by empirical or logical paradigms and structured in a post-normative fashion. Anything that doesn't fit the previous criteria but lies within the bounds of compositional communication then qualifies as establishing relations with the aforementioned metaphor.

That sentence I just wrote is total bullshit and means nothing even though it tries to sound technical or smart. That's word salad.


On another note, this is a discussion very rapidly devolving into semantics and [while some people are making valid points] nobody is really talking about the same thing. The guy who made the thread probably didn't really care about having an answer and just wanted to post philosophical bullshit in this board. We answered his question in what is possibly the best way possible and the discussion went off in a tangent. You guys really should define "matter" very carefully because you're already conflating a fuckton of topics together, including human perception and subjectivity, linguistics, epistomology, etc.

V-Ormix 11-18-2015 12:12 AM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stargroup100 (Post 4378056)
The composition of literal objects in a literary vacuum holds relevance only when the inherent structure of its intended constituents are bonded by empirical or logical paradigms and structured in a post-normative fashion. Anything that doesn't fit the previous criteria but lies within the bounds of compositional communication then qualifies as establishing relations with the aforementioned metaphor.

That sentence I just wrote is total bullshit and means nothing even though it tries to sound technical or smart. That's word salad.


On another note, this is a discussion very rapidly devolving into semantics and [while some people are making valid points] nobody is really talking about the same thing. The guy who made the thread probably didn't really care about having an answer and just wanted to post philosophical bullshit in this board. We answered his question in what is possibly the best way possible and the discussion went off in a tangent. [b]You guys really should define "matter" very carefully[b] because you're already conflating a fuckton of topics together, including human perception and subjectivity, linguistics, epistomology, etc.

i c u wut u didtheretheir this thing that

I suppose we needn't more than 3 characters to achieve a resounding yes or no huh

ULTIMEGA 11-18-2015 02:48 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V-Ormix (Post 4378057)
i c u wut u didtheretheir this thing that

I suppose we needn't more than 3 characters to achieve a resounding yes or no huh

I don't even know what the hell is going on half the time. CLUE ME IN, DAMMIT!!!

V-Ormix 11-18-2015 04:26 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTIMEGA (Post 4378139)
I don't even know what the hell is going on half the time. CLUE ME IN, DAMMIT!!!

Aarrghh hard boiled egg yo

botchi246 11-18-2015 04:40 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
my face matters

Hakulyte 11-18-2015 05:11 PM

Re: Does anything matter?
 
aye, poor debate, better take a small break and enjoy some Metallica.


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