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High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I'm sure plenty of you can either relate or have a friend who fits this description: possesses above-average intelligence with high aptitude for critical thinking, discourse, and comprehension; yet earns mediocre grades, is easily distracted, and is a habitual procrastinator.
This would be me. I'm not going to get up on a podium and tout whatever intelligence I think I have. I'm currently very frustrated by anyone who comes at me "but you're so smart! You can do it!" because if that was a solution, I would be beyond fine. What I'm asking for is help. FFR forums may not be the best place to do it, but this subsection is highly promising. What's wrong with me? How do I break this cycle and force myself to develop the needed discipline to produce work to my full potential? Has anyone else been struggling with this in their lives? How did/do you find success? Note: I've tried medication and sanctioned assignment deadline extensions. Neither drugs nor additional time seem to help me get things done, though I plan to restart my perscription soon for another stint. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Have to motivate your self and set goals. Only way I've been able to break that attitude.
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Take away all that is pleasurable or contenting.
Return it to yourself as rewards for completing tasks or projects. There is literally no other way to do it. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Can you elaborate some on what specifically is hard to concentrate on and what goes through your head? From what you say it sounds like you have attention deficit disorder. It's impossible to tell though based on the information you gave.
Other possibilities that aren't purely chemical could be lack of confidence, anxiety, aimless feeling. Some suggestions are: -Get exercise before you sit down to do work. -Identify your purpose for doing the work: eg. do you want to? why? what is your goal? -Work with your teachers after hours, it's a very helpful tool and it's underused by students. It'll force you to focus. They'll help you help them help you. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
For me, I got into that position from the very beginning due to patterns of laziness. The education system was too slow for me, and I did very little studying or work. By the time I reached a point where I needed to actually put effort into my work (around high school on), everyone else had developed good habits and got ahead in that way.
Like what everyone else is saying, you should set goals and complete tasks that you're interested in. Pursue some sort of study that you think you could do well in, that you would be passionate about, and start branching out and thinking about how all of these things you know relate to your life and the world around you. Think about what you're currently good at doing or enjoy doing, and see if that helps you find a starting point. On top of that, start doing more social activities (which is easier said than done, I know), talking to people, so you can expose yourself to other views and ideas, as well as learn how to interact with people so you can better understand how to utilize the things you've learned and make connections. It sounds like the two things I just mentioned fold back into each other, and they do. While you're doing all of these things, my recommendation is not to have the expectation that you're going to do great things. This can mislead you into being too ambitious or self-confident. Your first priority is gaining insight and experience. If you don't know how to live a modest life, it's not likely you'll be able to make a difference in modest people. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
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I get the basis of this approach, but I'm at a point where I feel like I literally need to be in a locked, stimuli-free room to see projects through to the end. Quote:
Exercise is something I need to do a lot more of. All of my classes, classwork, and leisure activities involve sitting myself down at a computer for hours. The past two semesters at college I made a point to be in contact with all my teachers and work with them so we're on the same page with my progress. It helps my case, but not my work ethic unfortunately. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
places like a critical thinking section of a video game forum are going to self-select for people with ADHD tendencies, since it's very likely that posting here in itself is an act of distraction for you
places like a critical thinking section of a video game that breaks up levels into bite-sized, ADHD-friendly events is doubly going to do this if you indeed have ADHD tendencies you need to understand what those tendencies actually are -- they're chronic understimulation; distraction is a side effect of understimulation. instead of asking "what will motivate me?" ask "what stimulates me?" and "what don't I find stimulating?" -- try to be as specific as possible. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I can relate to your description pretty well, I had difficulties in high school and I'm a procrastinator addict. Usually, when I try to avoid work is because I cannot see the end of the tunnel (work is too massive and I am afraid of it) or I am thinking too much about how/when I will complete the project.
They are a couple of things that helps me everyday with my duties. - Plan first : having a good schedule that you can follow everyday will make sure you're not forgetting that any big deadlines. Your time management will improve as well. And if you don't know where to start, set up priorities. Personnally, I'm using Google Calendar and it helped me quite a bit. - But, don't plan every little details in advance : that help reduce stress. While planning is a very important step before every project, if it's overdone, it may discourage you before starting the task. - Reserve time, a lot of it : don't forget that when you procrastinate, you're wasting free time you'll need for later - Start slowly : start by studying for 15 minutes/day. The next week, see if you can go for 20 minutes, then 25, then 30, etc. - If you doubt about yourself, remember the things you did that you are proud of. - Discipline will come naturally : forcing it had given me mixed results. It really depends on the amount of work. If it's something short (a 10 hour project, getting early to a week of exams), discipline alone can work. If it's long term (doing the dishes, exercize every day), you need to find other sources of motivation. After a while, you'll end up with a routine that suits you, but it takes patience. - Try to involve things you like in things you need to do : listen to music while studying / if you like to study outside, do it if it's possible / do exercize while watching tv / etc. Honestly, if there's one thing I learned from my past mistakes is that the quality of my mood is proportional to the quality of my success. Trick your brain : what you're doing is actually fun and good for yourself. However, always prioritize your work. e : Well, now that I know that you have ADD, maybe that last point might not work as well as it did with me... |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
you guys are all approaching the problem incorrectly
self discipline and motivation techniques are predicated on the assumption that he cares about the results of doing well in school, whatever they may be for him he needs to first figure out whether he actually cares about being motivated or whether he thinks he should care because the people around him do/expect him to to me it looks like he only barely gives enough shits to loosely convince himself that he gives a shit, not saying that's a bad thing but seriously the first step is for him to be honest with himself |
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Chronic understimulation is a concept I didn't really think of. Years ago I dismissed my disinterest in schoolwork as it being 'too easy' and underwhelming, though that isn't always the case now. Again, great observations, good questions I should be addressing for myself. Thanks. Quote:
but it does ring fairly true Truthfully, a degree isn't what it used to be, and this 4-year-struggle (and financial pitfall) through stuff I've never been good at doesn't feel worthwhile to me. The only personal thing really keeping me in school is pride, I guess. I want to succeed, maybe just to prove I can. Some days I wake up motivated to really put my nose to the grindstone and 'apply myself', but at the end of the week it's back to square one. |
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
To approach Mina's problem more directly, psychology breaks people's understanding of their own ambitions into two broad categories.
Your "ideal self" is the person you want to be. Your "ought self" is your understanding of what others want you to be. Then there is our actual self. In your case, your actual self is procrastinating everything but thinks you are smart enough to get things done. Which one -ideal or ought- is motivating you with regards to schoolwork? EDIT- If you find this line of thinking helps you sort out your thoughts, look up Self-Discrepancy Theory and Consistency Theory. Lots of interesting research on what happens when your various views of yourself contradict and how that can lead to things such as chronic procrastination. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
this anecdote is somewhat narcissistic, but only because of the way it's stated; I suspect everyone feels this way to a degree about the things they do. so:
when I started going to the gym, I wasn't very motivated to keep going. yet when I got to the point where I was actually ahead of quite a few people in terms of strength, physique and so on, the fruits of my work actually had a concrete property and I was motivated to go each time because every improvement made me more exceptional in that domain. it may be that you don't find school appealing because you don't think you're distinguishing yourself in a way that makes you that much better than anyone else; after all, you mentioned that a 4-year degree isn't what it used to be. "better than anyone else" is a harsh term, but come on. that's how most people emotionally process it even if it's not reflective of reality. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Well, you're lazy.
This is coming from someone that has struggled with this issue for years but eventually made it work. Think about it this way: your intellect is absolutely worthless unless you apply it to *something*. Maybe it's not academia that you're destined for, but you've got to find your niche somewhere if not in academia. Sitting around letting life pass you by while you tell yourself that you're smart but just can't seem to apply yourself is a pretty worthless endeavour. At some point you've got to get serious and make the decision to do better. Start making a routine and get into the habit of doing things you know need to get done. And start figuring out what you want to do with your life before you squander your opportunity. It's different if you have an actual medical condition, but if you're like I was, you're just content with the fact that you don't have to work hard. Don't be. You still have to work your ass off in life even if you're a damn genius. Don't be content with yourself until you've done what needs to be done to achieve what you want to achieve. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I used to have so much trouble with essays that I stressed myself out to the point where I would procrastinate until I didn't even complete enough of the essay to receive a grade. However, I hired an English tutor this semester who told me to write a paragraph in a set time-limit every week I met up with him. Over time, I have become much more confident in my approach to writing, and I was able to finish and turn in my final essay to my teacher, (although I barely made it in time). Ever since I started writing an event-type game for FFR, I have found it much easier to write in general. In fact, I have recently been reading an intriguing fanfiction novel for which I love the writing style and vocabulary choice, so I find writing a lot more fun now that I try to implement my own writing style. I hope you motivate yourself to do well in school and have fun with your assignments because they will become less of a chore and more like a hobby. :)
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
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![]() In case you don't want to do the math, my grade from points earned alone is 94%. Which is what my final grade should be, because I honestly don't give a fuck how many times I missed your boring class. Thankfully I still got an A-. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
"Aim for the stars" they told me but why would I aim for the past? The only thing I'm gunning for is to have everyone kiss my ass.
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Hiring a tutor for writing may help me develop better punctuality in getting papers done. I'll definitely try to work towards that option more.
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I believe I have above-average intelligence, but throughout elementary school, my ADD gave me trouble. I received decent grades in most of the subjects, except for Math and conduct. I would average a D/C in conduct and it was only for minor things, such as talking or playing with my pencil too much, etc. since my ADD made it hard to concentrate.
I do believe I was in the smarter half of the class, I just had a hard time focusing and admittedly, finishing my paper wasn't the most important thing to me in the world. My teachers really didn't like me due to these things. Due to my inability of focusing on more than one thing at a time, it made math really hard. I knew how to solve the problems and what not, I just had a hard time doing it. I believe part of the reason for my low grades was constantly getting teased/bullied throughout the day and it made it difficult to do well on my work. It got to the point where I had to get on medication, and I got an A+ in conduct the first week I started. It started to get more difficult during 4th grade, when the bullying got slightly more serious, and my teacher was even more of a b****. I also believe a big reason for my low grades was because every year I would be put in the meanest teacher's class, from 1st to 6th grade, except for 5th when I actually got a nice teacher which made it a whole lot easier. I'm probably rambling on now, but overall, I felt I was decently smart. It was just things like my ADD, being teased all day, and my teachers being mean that made it difficult. I probably also didn't work as hard as I could have either. This is why I'm home schooled today. I hope this was the right kind of thing to post here. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Idk as long as you get above a 3.0 you're fine. don't need to be an overachiever!!
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
honestly? it works for my cousin and I and we are senior chem majors...
we get a bottle of a wine and just get a nice buzz. it makes the work not seem too bad.... i bust shit out when it happens, but if i'm not drinking my motivation and drive is so below the worst levels of low. i have that mentality that if i don't need to do the homework to understand the material why should i have to do it... then i wind up losing 10-15 points on my final grade and voila! a shitty grade. =/ its especially hard in the class i have to take towards my bio minor since all biology classes are super boring and easy and don't even need a teacher any more since powerpoint took over. i'm finishing that minor up this semester with microbio.... it shouldn't be this awful but it is. i haven't even done anything for that class but its just a repetition of general biology still and we've been at it for 3 weeks. so yea i'm not worried. |
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Usually I am good for about 30 minutes but then I keep drinking because oops and then I just give up studying altogether. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Guess you're not smart enough ;)
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
Pfff, not even gonna read past the OP -- dude, I feel you. I get a lot of A's in college, I have a 3.85 right now, but I always do the least work possible to get that A, and more than once a professor has had to make an exception for me to give me time to find motivation.
I think the scary thing is, there's no way anything is getting done unless YOU do it. And this kind of thing always happens to smart people. We think that we are entitled to an easier path in life because we have more skill, more talent, more potential... the truth is, all of that won't do a thing for you unless you can act like a regular adult and deal with the responsibilities that YOU have set upon YOURSELF. It's all about discipline, and part of me wishes I was born into a culture where that was important, and taught from a young age, but that was not the case. Most of the time I don't even brush my teeth every day. If I had to suggest a cause to this behavior, which I'm sure is more common than you think, I'd say it's lack of self identity. In which case, a good job helps with that, along with a group of supportive friends, and people who accept you for who you are, and are more than willing to call you on your bullshit when the time comes around. No one has to get through life alone after all... in fact, any successful person will tell you that they had a mentor at critical point in their life, so there's no shame in it. You just gotta believe it will get better, stay diligent, and take it one step at a time. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student = Lazy
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I have read that high intellect can actually be negatively correlated with success or productivity, on average. Granted I am too lazy to find sources right now (and I welcome antithetical sources), but it makes sense for a variety of reasons: high intellect can alienate people leading to social anxiety, inability to concentrate with a hyperactive brain, or just basic human disinterest.
I think upbringing and environment play huge roles on success, at least at a young age wherein school performance would be weighed most heavily by the individual. It takes a variety of factors to constitute success, intellectual acuity is only one factor. I also wonder about the difference between skill, perception, and intellect. I wonder if those aspects are mutually exclusive and if an individual holds one aspect or another if they will be biased to hold themselves or others at differing standards or if they will have a tendency to ascribe their skill to an unrelated quality. And are intellectual measurements able to be objectified or are our measurements simply held against a generalized concept of normalcy? Essentially, I ask can we really know anything, even then, does it matter? Your performance in school may result in better peer evaluation or higher income, but do those aspects have objective value or is their value only prescribed because of ingrained social conditioning? |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
What's unfortunate about academics is the concept of a grade itself. I remember having this kind of discussion with my Probability and Statistics professor last year when I failed an exam but bounced back and continued to frequently meet him during his office hours. He was honest with me in that he hated giving out grades -- he understood the pressure of what it was like to be a student at MIT, and he did what he could to answer any questions I had to clear up confusion. I wound up getting an A on the final, and when I took that final I wasn't even worried in the slightest; I was surprisingly calm when I took it. It was the agony of that bad grade throughout the semester that bothered me. The grade itself is immaterial -- what is important is that if I can immerse myself into the material of a course, enjoy it, and frequently be in contact with the professor about any potential issues and even give positive feedback about the material, the grade starts to become less of an issue and the concept of the course itself shines.
The professors that students dislike are the ones that don't help and have some sort of distorted sense of "exploration". These professors do not take into account that students could be drowning in loans, taking 5 other courses and working part-time. In other words, these kinds of professors think students are only taking this one course. That is when students start worrying about their grades and the class itself, detracting from the course which could potentially be a fascinating topic in itself. From being at university and my co-op, I'd have to say success is achieved through hard work and diligence, along with remembering the people around you that have helped you get to where you are. Other people aren't as lucky and have had to motivate themselves to make the best out of a terrible situation. There isn't any easy way out of this. What makes me want to wake up at 7 AM or earlier every day? What makes me want to immerse myself into hours of work even if the assignments aren't due until a week after? What about all the other students with their own personal lives around me with these similar feelings -- waking up early, constantly having to keep up with courses despite being exhausted, and worrying about their performance. There are people on this site who have incredible motivation despite what difficulties they encounter. You may not have many choices, but try to think about how you can make the best out of a situation. It's easy to just want to go to sleep from being exhausted and overwhelmed, but the willpower to continue through difficulty is an ultimate ability to have for any person regardless of perceived talents. I'm not a genius but I put in effort and give credit where it's due -- I definitely did not get to this point in my life without the help of many amazing friends and people, and I think about them if I'm down. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I definitely struggle with this same thing. Motivation to do well is escaping me lately, and I can't really determine what it is that is causing it (lack of motivation to be in school for a degree, lack of interest in the subjects, too much focus on other things in my life).
My biggest demotivating factor is most likely the fact that I have to take so many classes that, while yes they do educate me and make me a more scholarly person, have no direct application to my degree. I am attending a solid university with a good program, but having to take two semesters of Chemistry, two semesters of Physics, and a conglomeration of like 20 other credits in the "Perspectives on the Human Condition" for a Computer Science degree it makes me wonder if sinking my money into this is really worth it. Which in turn, I will admit, really cuts into my desire to do it. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
My solution to this struggle took years, but is dishearteningly simple. It's a matter of habit.
You need habit or discipline to get excellence. If you don't have discipline, you need to develop your habits. Developing something into a habit takes time, but it makes you automatically do things without consideration, which is an important thing to have when you lack discipline. I probably attempted starting to exercise regularly about 10 times over the last 8 years. It wasn't until my last attempt that it stuck because I decided that, even if I didn't feel like it, or even if I was injured, I was gonna go sit on that exercise machine for just a short while, or I was just gonna do 3 pushups. Easy things that won't fail. Even the smallest steps bring you forward, and they will add up. I do this for everything now. HTML, C++, tech skill in SSB, aim in FPS, and so on. Baby steps will make it easier for bigger steps. And as time goes on, more and more of those baby steps become bigger and bigger. all the motivation in the world won't make up for not having habit or discipline. You may never have discipline, but you can still have habit. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I feel as though motivation is dependent on a person's understanding of what defines success, and that the general idea of success is inflated to an image of an overindulgent lifestyle. People can feel important and successful without making tons of money if perspective on what truly makes ones self happy is gained. Some view the acceptance of ones position in life as a weakness or simple-mindedness, and push themselves into a self-loathing territory. Some come to terms with their flaws and talents and use both as positive influences over their goals and standards.
It took a while to get myself out of the first and closer to the second category, and seeing people struggle while chasing unrealistic pipe dreams and shallow victories only strengthens my belief in certain views of "success" being over-rated. Know what makes you feel accomplished and the journey to your life's climax should be much smoother. With the distraction issue, I suggest some good ol' self inflicted tough love. Remember, it is possible to complete a task without drastic distractions, you just need discipline. Good luck c: |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
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That said when it comes to things that don't require memory, say mental computation, I can basically do it on a dime after a little bit of practice. This also leads to problems in conversations because I tend to read between the line too much; more so I speak in tangents without realizing. I've been told I haven't been trying to remember someone's name enough; and they're probably right in this regard, I could write someone's name down on a photo of them and say their name and look at that photo every few hours while I'm at home (but that's creepy and way too much work). Or maybe it's purely a mental issue; maybe I've just disconnected myself mentally and I don't remember names for some kind of contrived convenience. (My memory is also horrible for just remembering a lot of facts; one of the reasons I decided to drop from being a medical major -way too much stress in my life) |
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A few days, at a game board night at my uni, I embarrassed myself when I had to count my total number of game pieces on the board (that satisfied an adjacency condition) because the board was so cluttered that I forgot which things I already counted, so I had to start over my counting like three times. |
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The only thing that's really bad is under 3.0 because that's a huge cutoff line for a lot of employers and schools, and they auto-fail your application. The difference between 2.9 and 3.0 is a big deal. |
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That's the mark for the Honor Roll at my school district, at least! |
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
get over yourself and work.
once you get a job, it doesnt matter how smart you are, at least 50% of it will be mind numbing shit that someone has to do and that someone will be you. better get used to it now. believe it or not, the ability to do mind numbing work efficiently is probably the most valuable skill you can learn, period. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
This is my exact problem right now. Liyerally, right this second, I should be finishing an ELA paper that would take 15 min tops, but instead I'm dancing to The Smiths and dancing in a futile attempt to cure these Valentines blues.
My affluent life sucks. |
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
honestly for every minute i spend doing the interesting difficult things that look good when asking for raises, that look good on resumes etc, i spend probably three minutes doing stuff that just takes time, or stuff that just needs to be done and isn't particularly interesting.
the faster i get that stuff done, the more time i have to spend on things that maybe arent essential, but are interesting and reflect well on me. also, being able to crank out the necessary stuff looks good all on its own. depending on what you go into, you can make a good career just by being fast and efficient at what you do. it doesnt matter how smart you think you are. you can have a 20 int, doesnt matter at all if your wis is in the gutter. any hard worker can be successful. take this +4 to wis post at face value and do some goddamn hard work. |
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
I sure can relate, Macchabee. And here's a fun solution:
Bets. That's the answer. Bet your peers that if you finish a task you get their 20-200 (pounds, dollars, yuan, rupees, yen. What ever currency you have per peer), this way you'll be willing to try harder, and so will your peers. And if you fail, you lose 20-200. Or you can get them to do better things, like get them to eat bread from the floor (if other way around, you're in danger and gotta try harder or hide). Though if everyone does fine, then everyone's safe. I haven't tried this solution, but I sure would do my work if my wallet or health was in danger. |
Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
that's illegal lol
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
he's 15, give him a brek
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Re: High-Level Thinker, Low-Level Student
idk i just think about my parents and how screwing up school would waste their efforts
i dunno. really though, you need to set goals. try to visualize your future so you know what you need to get there "intelligence" helps you do well in school, but there's a ton of people who aren't that intelligent but do well in school because they're determined |
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