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-   -   Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=134272)

Vendetta21 01-24-2014 12:12 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
I think this semantic argument of altruisn being self-interested often gets abused like Pascal's wager in an attempt to level out the self-interest of things like feeling good from donating to charity and feeling good from stealing an item from the store, and when you render those actions as similarly motivated you can sort of paint things with a moral nihilism.

There is a hard to articulate but naive understanding of the word altruism where you are only getting back feelings of self-worth or esteem for your actions. If we define altruism as doing an act that helps others solely for your feeling of self-worth or adherence to your core values, then I am happy with that definition and would encourage others to be more altruistic.

devonin 01-24-2014 01:58 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Exactly. I mean...if you go around doing good things for people because you are insanely selfish and outright addicted to the feeling you get when you do a good thing, and actually don't even care at all about the person to whom you are being generous or kind or helpful, that's totally fine.

This is also the reason why I don't get down on legitimately religious people for their religious beliefs. If the reason they are being kind, loving, forgiving and compassionate is because a book told them to and they believe it, what do I want? For them to be an asshole instead?

If you are being a good person for bad or incomprehensible motives, you're still being a good person.

Izzy 01-24-2014 02:05 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Sure it might be better than some alternatives, but I would still rank being nice because it makes you feel good higher than being nice out of fear.

Ksl33zy24 01-24-2014 02:37 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
There has never been a single selfless act ever, so don't worry about it.

Izzy 01-24-2014 02:44 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Sacrificing your life for someone you hate? Is that possible?

devonin 01-24-2014 02:47 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 4065440)
Sure it might be better than some alternatives, but I would still rank being nice because it makes you feel good higher than being nice out of fear.

Being nice out of fear was never the question here. The UNIVERSAL objection to "Aren't selfless acts wonderful?" is "HURF DURF EVEN IF YOU ONLY DO IT BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD ITS SELFISH NOW HURR DURR" which is just (coming from me even!) overly literal and redundant in any sort of actual thought on moral philosophy.

You'll notice that I said legitimately religious people. People who obey God for fear of Hell aren't really what I'd call legitimately religious, as those are the same kind of people who condemn others as -going- to hell for "breaking" the "rules" of God. The legitimately religious are people who admire Christ or the Buddha as being generous and kind, and seek to live up to their compassion and love by doing so themselves.

Thank goodness doing nice things for other people makes us feel good, or shit would never get done around here. If the only reason you do a nice thing is because you enjoy the feeling of doing a nice thing, that's still selfless.

Even if you only do a nice thing because you feel like it will gain you social capital to use later, I'd still argue that is pretty selfless, because chances are, the reason the person you were nice to got treated nicely in the first place, was cashing in a bit of social capital they had earned. Keeping the cycle going is also pretty selfless.

When -I- say a position is too pedantic, you know something's up.

devonin 01-24-2014 02:47 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 4065466)
Sacrificing your life for someone you hate? Is that possible?

Absolutely.

Vendetta21 01-24-2014 04:35 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
I feel like saying everything is self-interested is a purely descriptive statement which has nothing to do with morality which is perscriptive set of beliefs or values, which is what "altruism" is trying to get at.

RB_Spirit 01-24-2014 04:51 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
It's impossible to be nice

Izzy 01-24-2014 05:11 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 4065469)
Absolutely.

So then you can do something nice for someone even though it makes you feel bad.

devonin 01-24-2014 06:05 PM

Re: Is it ok to do something nice for someone else for your own self-interest?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 4065520)
So then you can do something nice for someone even though it makes you feel bad.

Doing a thing you don't want to do because it is the good or right thing to do brings us full circle to the maturity thread.


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