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Cavernio 02-23-2013 09:40 AM

I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Forward: This was very purposefully made a CT topic, and while I feel that its a topic that is and has been easily derailed many, many times, I don't think there was a need to lock or move the thread. I think many posts should have been edited or perhaps deleted to avoid the 'you're dumb' part of them, and I also feel that it's unfair for a moderator to feel like a thread or comment is derailed when they themselves haven't bothered to follow it. There were a number of different topics being discussed in the thread, and right up to the last page I learned things/thought of things I hadn't thought about. Lock this or delete it or whatever if you feel I've done wrong or whatever, but I'm going to write this anyways.

I respect you and I understand at least part of where you're coming from jj, but you've made a fatal logical error, and it is apparent in many of your posts, and I don't believe anyone's exactly pinpointed it, although there's definitely been talk around it.

"But in all these posts I haven't read not one reason why someone doesn't believe in God except to say that he doesn't believe he exists because he can't prove he exists. While on the other hand, I have gave countless reasons why I believe by qouting many passages from the Bible to explain them."

When you have a theory, and you want to scientifically test it, you don't use the same data to run experiments on. That's circular reasoning and ends up proving nothing and you might as well be saying 'It's so because I make it so'. When you say the Bible gives you proof for Gods existence, it's the exact same thing. You can't use evidence that already requires belief of what you are proving as proof. It's 100% circular. And because there is so much anti-religion sentiment these days, its crystal clear to most people that this is what you are doing, (even though I find people will not see themselves making those same errors in so many other aspects of their lives), which is why people have called you stupid.

I believe you have a fairly good grasp of the principles of needing proof though, because you have said that people themselves are fallible and cannot know everything, and I feel like you've pointed out that people themselves, by being bound within ourselves, fall into the same logical error of lacking any proof. Therefore everything we think and experience is all circular within ourselves. What I failed to grasp when you brought this topic up, however, is how believing in God circumvents this. Yes, if god exists then God by definition is omniscient which would, of course, allow us some sort of True clarity into existence. But there seems to be a rather serious missing link in what you're saying that everyone who doesn't believe in God sees; if I believe in God then that belief is also still within the realm of our own, self-supporting selves. To reiterate, even if God lies outside these bounds, your belief in God doesn't. (Which leads to an atheism vs agnostism argument, which is what reincarnate has gotten into, and that I think was best understood in a post he made a few years ago, but I can't even remember if it was ct or chit chat or if he was even the OP.)

Now you have also touched upon the idea that it is a sad, imperfect, lonely existence without God, not just for all the reasons that people have pointed out, but because then you know that nothing is fully real, that we are all just ourselves, that there is no proof of anything REAL. But then you turn around use your feelings and thoughts and ideas as proof that there is something real, and then illogically conclude that God must exist because otherwise, nothing real would exist. But all along, it's just been your perceptions, which you know are limited. All of it, Godly or secular (which I suppose means all Godly to you).

Maybe you wonder how you can possibly exist without God. But then you can in the same vein wonder how can God possibly exist. But God just exists...umm, obviously, it's God. But you just exist...obviously, you're here.

And now we are led to the ideas about feeling and beliefs being strong enough to count as proof of God. And so I ask again, if you didn't have emotions, if you didn't experience God's love, would you believe in God? And if you stopped feeling God's love, at what point would you start questioning how you lost God's love when you did nothing to stop God's love? I'm not talking about God's love as being portrayed through His actions, like killing your family or something, and then you rejecting God. I'm talking about actually losing God's love even though you have only tried ever harder to love and please God, even though you don't reject Him. At what point would your own self-perceptions of God not be strong enough for God to exist? Why do you think that peope who haven't found God must not be trying? Why do people who believe in God (jewish) believe in the same God as people who believe Jesus was God's son? And the follow-up, how can people who only know half of God say they know God just as much as you do if Jesus matters so much to being loved by God? Once you answer that, then why does it matter that ANYONE believes in God in order to experience God's love? Why is it not possible for every secular person to experience God's love all the time if God loves everyone? If it is always possible to feel God's love, then why do I have to be religious, ie: why would I have to attribute this love to your specific god when I could attribute it to Life or Existence, things that are so much stronger to my perceptions? (You can't call back on 'Because God exists' because that's circular reasoning and is not logical, and if you use arguments that are obviously not logical, then there's no point in debating or no way of gaining any sort of understanding.) Why would you think someone would be wrong if they prayed to The Spaghetti God? What makes your belief so strong that you know God but I don't?

In order to answer all of these questions properly, don't use circular logic.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 01:42 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Thank you Cavernio for your considerate post and your thoughtful questions. I will do my best to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

Quote:

And so I ask again, if you didn't have emotions, if you didn't experience God's love, would you believe in God?
No.

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:7-8

Quote:

And if you stopped feeling God's love, at what point would you start questioning how you lost God's love when you did nothing to stop God's love?
You are assuming you did nothing to stop feeling Gods love, this is wrong. The truth is this: you stopped feeling Gods love because you stopped loving God. The answer would then be....at any point you wish.

Quote:

At what point would your own self-perceptions of God not be strong enough for God to exist?
At no point because God will continue to exist whether your own self-perceptions of him are strong or not. You do not come to know God by your own self-perceptions of him.

Quote:

Why do you think that peope who haven't found God must not be trying?
Because that is thier choice. God does not force us to believe in him, this is why we have the gift of free-will. I can not speak on the account of the multitude of those people for I am not they.

Quote:

Why do people who believe in God (jewish) believe in the same God as people who believe Jesus was God's son?
They don't.

Quote:

And the follow-up, how can people who only know half of God say they know God just as much as you do if Jesus matters so much to being loved by God?
There is no "half of God" to know. You either know God or you don't. They are liars. It says so in the scriptures:

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23

Quote:

Once you answer that, then why does it matter that ANYONE believes in God in order to experience God's love?
To whom does it matter? If you chose not to believe in God, it's no skin off his back. You only have "death" to look forward to.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Quote:

Why is it not possible for every secular person to experience God's love all the time if God loves everyone?
Please consider Matthew 5:43-48, “YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.” So being “perfect” as God is “perfect” means loving those who do not love YOU. Christ taught us to love our enemies.

Gods enemies killed his first born Son. What could be worse that putting the son of God, Jesus Christ to death? Especially the way they did it. Can you think of anything? I honestly can’t myself. Yet Jesus prayed to his heavenly father, “please forgive them for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34) Here Christ showed love for those who put him to death and asked his father to not hold this against them. Where did he learn this kind of love? From his Father of course.

Although God loves you, He hates the continous sin that you commit against him. Because Jesus Christ took YOUR punishment died for YOUR sins, it is not too late to be accepted into Gods grace by confessing, repenting, and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Quote:

If it is always possible to feel God's love, then why do I have to be religious, ie: why would I have to attribute this love to your specific god when I could attribute it to Life or Existence, things that are so much stronger to my perceptions?
It's not always possible. Just because God loves you, doesn't mean you always feel it. This should be self-evident in accordance with the second question you asked, "And if you stopped feeling God's love, at what point would you start questioning how you lost God's love when you did nothing to stop God's love?" <- those are your very own words.

Quote:

(You can't call back on 'Because God exists' because that's circular reasoning and is not logical, and if you use arguments that are obviously not logical, then there's no point in debating or no way of gaining any sort of understanding.) Why would you think someone would be wrong if they prayed to The Spaghetti God?
What has the "Spaghetti God" done for you?

Quote:

What makes your belief so strong that you know God but I don't?
In order to answer all of these questions properly, don't use circular logic.
You do not love God as I do. :)


I hope I answered all of your questions to your satisfaction and understanding. If I did not, I apologize. I can try my best to clarify anything else you may wish to know.

Nullifidian 02-23-2013 02:12 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Nice use of circular logic in every single answer.


PS
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
What has the "Spaghetti God" done for you?

Just as much as any other god

bmah 02-23-2013 02:25 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Cavernio, I have been following the topic and will continue to follow it, even if I haven't been particularly active in the conversation itself. I'm not here to constantly edit and delete posts if they consistently become off-topic. I moderate, but I don't babysit. The onus is on everyone to keep this thread relevant.

So play nice. :)

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 03:00 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
You say it's a matter of "loving God" but you seem to continually dodge the question of "Why God in the first place"? Why do you think God exists? Because you feel it? Do you think things are true just because you feel it?

dAnceguy117 02-23-2013 03:03 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
Quote:

Why do you think that peope who haven't found God must not be trying?
Because that is thier choice. God does not force us to believe in him, this is why we have the gift of free-will. I can not speak on the account of the multitude of those people for I am not they.

You say that some people choose not to believe in God. Would you say that these people choose not to find a reason to believe in God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
Quote:

Why do people who believe in God (jewish) believe in the same God as people who believe Jesus was God's son?
They don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...oncepts_of_God

I don't see why you brushed off this question so hastily. Could you explain your answer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
Although God loves you, He hates the continous sin that you commit against him. Because Jesus Christ took YOUR punishment died for YOUR sins, it is not too late to be accepted into Gods grace by confessing, repenting, and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

To whom is this comment directed? Are you accusing anyone on these message boards of having put Jesus Christ to death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
Quote:

(You can't call back on 'Because God exists' because that's circular reasoning and is not logical, and if you use arguments that are obviously not logical, then there's no point in debating or no way of gaining any sort of understanding.) Why would you think someone would be wrong if they prayed to The Spaghetti God?
What has the "Spaghetti God" done for you?

I could claim that the Spaghetti God brought the universe into being, loves me, and deserves constant praise. What (aside from scientific research about the origin of the universe) gives my claim less credence than those of someone with a different set of beliefs?

qqwref 02-23-2013 03:21 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867734)
Gods enemies killed his first born Son. What could be worse that putting the son of God, Jesus Christ to death? Especially the way they did it. Can you think of anything?

Hang on. God is omniscient; both God and Jesus knew this would happen before Jesus took human form. In fact it was pretty much inevitable, given that at the time the penalty for being a "false" prophet (from the Romans' perspective, not ours) was death. Jesus being killed was the plan all along - and plus, it was also the plan that He would get resurrected, so his death didn't mean much. After all, killing someone is such a bad thing because then they're dead and it's permanent, but if you know they're going to get resurrected in a few days anyway, it's not so much of a big deal. It's like stealing something and then giving it back. In that context it's not hard at all to think of a worse crime to commit against your enemy.

So here we have an omniscient, omnipotent being, setting up a human society so that, by their own rules, they have to commit a "crime" which, actually, has no real long-term repercussions to Him. Then, He blames the society, and implies that they were evil enemies of God, for doing exactly what He planned to happen. Somehow this seems a little unfair to me.

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 03:45 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
The first time I held the bible in my hand and began perusing through the most important excerpts of the religion, I just could not bare the amount of inconsistencies and contradictions that were comprised in this manuscript alone. Even if you believe in God or not, the "sacred words" in which you place your faith so much are man-made and have been distorted and filtered many times throughout history.

JJTrix, don't take what I'm gonna say wrongly, I'm just trying to express the reason behind why your arguments have been miscomprehended.

I could be much more inclined to what you defend if you could actually disregard the bible as a guideline to your faith and back your beliefs through rational knowledge or at least philosophical arguments. The problem is you seem to adhere to an older version of faith defended through fideism which causes questions directed to you to be left unanswered. All in all, there seems to be a unbridgeable gap between faith and reason in your religious mentality. It would greatly help if you could detach yourself from a traditional viewpoint of your faith and become an independent thinker for distinguishing between what the Catholic Church has wrote and what truly makes sense to you in christianity.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 03:46 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

You say that some people choose not to believe in God. Would you say that these people choose not to find a reason to believe in God?
Yes. If I and thousands of others can find a reason to believe in God, so can you. You choose not to.

Quote:

I don't see why you brushed off this question so hastily. Could you explain your answer?
I answered this question in another question asked by Cavernio:
"And the follow-up, how can people who only know half of God say they know God just as much as you do if Jesus matters so much to being loved by God?"

(My response)
There is no "half of God" to know. You either know God or you don't. They are liars. It says so in the scriptures:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23


Jews don't believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. Therefore, they do not know God, the father.

Quote:

To whom is this comment directed?
Everyone, for we are all sinners.

Quote:

I could claim that the Spaghetti God brought the universe into being, loves me, and deserves constant praise. What (aside from scientific research about the origin of the universe) gives my claim less credence than those of someone with a different set of beliefs?
You could NOT make such a claim for you don't believe it to be so. You would be lying if you said otherwise.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 03:52 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
lol

qqwref 02-23-2013 03:54 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867819)
You could NOT make such a claim for you don't believe it to be so. You would be lying if you said otherwise.

You're just saying "If you say something and don't believe it you are lying". That's true by definition. There's nothing stopping someone from lying about their beliefs, though!

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 03:56 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I'll ask again because you dodged it the first time


Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3867777)
Why do you think God exists? Because you feel it? Do you think things are true just because you feel it?


JJTrixX 02-23-2013 03:58 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde (Post 3867818)
It would greatly help if you could detach yourself from a traditional viewpoint of your faith and become an independent thinker for distinguishing between what the Catholic Church has wrote and what truly makes sense to you in christianity.

The Catholic Church did not write the Bible. Why do you think it's called the "Catholic" church and not the "Christian" church? The Catholic church does not follow the scriptures of the Bible. Instead, they contradict it in several areas. They fall under the doctrine and authority of the priests and the Vatican, rather than the authority of God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate
Why do you think God exists? Because you feel it? Do you think things are true just because you feel it?


For you to assume "I think God exists" would make me an agnostic atheist such as yourself, would it not?

I know God exists.

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 04:03 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I'm sorry, I have posted in a hurry and made confusion. Please replace "catholic" with "christian" and answer to a question for once.

HalfStep 02-23-2013 04:04 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I think ya'll getting trolled. Just saying.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 04:07 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867837)
For you to assume "I think God exists" would make me an agnostic atheist such as yourself, would it not?

I know God exists.

... huh? Rephrase what you are trying to say


Quote:

Originally Posted by HalfStep (Post 3867843)
I think ya'll getting trolled. Just saying.

Probably. I refuse to believe someone's brains can be addled this hard.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 04:08 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde (Post 3867842)
I'm sorry, I have posted in a hurry and made confusion. Please replace "catholic" with "christian" and answer to a question for once.

You asked no question to begin with.

hi19hi19 02-23-2013 04:09 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Yo I just want to go on record saying the Flying Spaghetti Monster has done way more for my life than any other omniscient being has.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 04:13 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
This is not a hard question: You say you know God exists. How do you know?

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 04:14 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I'm more or less referring to those by saying that you don't answer to questions but rather dodge them:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX
Quote:

Originally Posted by danceguy117
I could claim that the Spaghetti God brought the universe into being, loves me, and deserves constant praise. What (aside from scientific research about the origin of the universe) gives my claim less credence than those of someone with a different set of beliefs?

You could NOT make such a claim for you don't believe it to be so. You would be lying if you said otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate
Why do you think God exists? Because you feel it? Do you think things are true just because you feel it?

For you to assume "I think God exists" would make me an agnostic atheist such as yourself, would it not?

I know God exists.

This goes back to what I've said earlier about the faith you defend not being eligible to reason. I'd like you to express your opinions on my original post, and to explain to me your viewpoint on how you consider reason and faith, and if reason can be used as a way to reinforce faith. (existence of God)

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 04:16 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3867860)
This is not a hard question: You say you know God exists. How do you know?

Whatever answer I give, you will not listen, for you don't wish to know God. You seek only to mock God.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 04:17 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867864)
Whatever answer I give, you will not listen, for you don't wish to know God. You seek only to mock God.

No, I'm asking you what you base your view on. Now you're deliberately avoiding the question (for reasons I think are obvious).

How do you know God exists? How can you claim to know God?

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 04:22 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3867867)
No, I'm asking you what you base your view on.

I base my knowledge of God through the Gospel in the Bible.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 04:23 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867877)
I base my knowledge of God through the Gospel in the Bible.

And why do you consider the Bible a credible source / a source worth accepting as truth of God?

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 04:41 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3867878)
And why do you consider the Bible a credible source / a source worth accepting as truth of God?

1. The Bible was written by divine inspiration:

2Tim.3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God
1Thes.2:13 Ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the Word of God
Heb.1:1 God...spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets
2Pet.1:21 Men of God spake as they were moved by Holy Ghost


2. God's Word is eternally true and never fails:

1Ki.8:56 There hath not failed one word of all His good promise
Psa.119:89 Forever, O Lord, Thy Word is settled in Heaven
Psa.119:160 Every one of Thy judgements endureth forever
Isa.40:8 The Word of God shall stand forever
Isa.55:10,11 So shall My Word be...it shall accomplish...and prosper
Mat.24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words [never]
Jn.10:35b The Scripture cannot be broken (cancelled, annulled)
1Pet.1:25 The Word of the Lord endureth forever


3. The Importance of God's Word:

Deut.32:46,47 Set your heart unto all the Words...for it is not a vain thing for you; it is your life
Psa.138:2b Thou (God) hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy name

A. Jesus is the "Word made flesh":
Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God
Jn.1:14 The Word (Jesus) was made flesh and dwelt among us
Rev.19:11-13 His (Jesus') name is called the Word of God (See also 1Jn.1:1)

B. The power of the Word:
Jn.6:63 The Words that I speak, they are spirit and they are life
Psa.33:6,9 By the the Word of the Lord were the heavens made... He spake, and it was done
Rom.1:16 Gospel of Christ...is the power of God unto salvation
Heb.11:3 The worlds were framed by the Word of God
2Pet.3:5-7 Earth...by the Word, kept in store, reserved unto fire


4. The Bible was written for our benefit:

Psa.102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come
Jn.19:35 He (John) that saw it bare record...that ye might believe
Jn.20:31 These are written that ye might believe
Rom.15:4 Written for our learning, that we through...the Scriptures might have hope
1Cor.10:11 And they are written for our admonition (See also 1Jn.5:13)


5. Keeping (obeying, heeding) the Word:

A. It's important to heed and keep the Word:
Deut.11:1 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and keep His...statutes, and His judgments, and His commandents, alway
Heb.2:1 We ought to give more earnest heed to the (Word)
2Pet.1:19 Sure Word...ye do well that ye take heed

B. Obeying and keeping the Word proves we know and love Jesus:
Psa.119:167 My soul kept Thy testimonies; I love them exceedingly
Jn.8:31 If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed
Jn.14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments
Jn.14:21,23 If a man love Me, he will keep My Words
Jam.1:22-24 Be ye doers of the Word, and not hearers only
1Jn.2:3 Hereby we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments
1Jn.5:3 This is the love of God...keep His commandments
2Jn.6 This is love, that we walk after His commandments
Rev.3:8 Thou...hast kept My Word, and hast not denied My name

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 04:42 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
So you believe in the Bible because the Bible says so?

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 04:50 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3868030)
So you believe in the Bible because the Bible says so?

I believe in God. I believe in Gods word because it is so written in the Bible.

HalfStep 02-23-2013 04:51 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
(clap)

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 05:03 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868076)
I believe in God. I believe in Gods word because it is so written in the Bible.

checkmate


stop trolling you numpty

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 05:07 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX
I believe in God. I believe in Gods word because it is so written in the Bible.

What you have listed are reasons to believe in God, which is highly insufficient to what Reincarnate asked as they do not regard the integrity of the Bible itself. To reiterate the question for better understanding: How do you know the Bible is the Word of God?

Therefore, when told about your religion you should answer that you place your faith in the Bible but not in the words of God as the only rational evidence we can observe is that God is the repercussion of the Bible, and not the other way around. You basically say "I believe in God because the Bible says so". Where is your faith in God then? In the Bible. And therefore, your faith in God consists of more faith? Would you admit that there is no rationality in that sense and therefore, no existence of God apart from in your faith?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde
I'd like you to express your opinions on my original post, and to explain to me your viewpoint on how you consider reason and faith, and if reason can be used as a way to reinforce faith. (existence of God)

Whenever you feel like it

Frank Munoz 02-23-2013 05:10 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I believe in Hatsune Miku. I believe in Miku's word because it was sung in her songs.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 05:22 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde (Post 3868147)
What you have listed are reasons to believe in God, which is highly insufficient to what Reincarnate asked as they do not regard the integrity of the Bible itself. To reiterate the question for better understanding: How do you know the Bible is the Word of God?

The Bible contains Gods spoken word. The reason is because God can not lie nor change his mind. Men lie. Men change ther minds.

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers 23:19

If God lied, then I guess the Bible would not be credible. So I challenge you to find me one lie within the Bible. Good luck :)

The stories in the Bible are historical fact, not myths. If you can "prove to me" otherwise then you would have done something that atheists such as yourselves were not able to do for thousands of years. No theories, no excuses.

Jake Ferguson 02-23-2013 05:33 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Men wrote the bible through the "word of god". Men lie. (clap)

dAnceguy117 02-23-2013 05:34 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3867819)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117 (Post 3867778)
You say that some people choose not to believe in God. Would you say that these people choose not to find a reason to believe in God?

Yes. If I and thousands of others can find a reason to believe in God, so can you. You choose not to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868016)
1. The Bible was written by divine inspiration:

2Tim.3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God
1Thes.2:13 Ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the Word of God
Heb.1:1 God...spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets
2Pet.1:21 Men of God spake as they were moved by Holy Ghost

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868076)
I believe in God. I believe in Gods word because it is so written in the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868184)
If God lied, then I guess the Bible would not be credible. So I challenge you to find me one lie within the Bible. Good luck :)

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...-of-proof.html



This thread is in the Critical Thinking forum. Arguments based on logical fallacies do not have merit.

Reincarnate 02-23-2013 05:36 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Doesn't matter, the Bible's full of stuff that's demonstrably false.
And almost nobody follows it literally -- they have to pick and choose what to follow. Kind of odd considering it's the Word of God and all...

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 05:36 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by From TheThinkingAtheist.com
Who is Punished for Sins?

Ezekiel 18:20: The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
-> The penalty of sin is placed upon only the sinner, not the offspring.

Exodus 20:5: I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
-> The penalty of sin affects generations.

If the Bible is truly the words of God as you say so, whether he decides to bear the sins of the father upon the son or not, he would lie either way.
We've come to a loophole in the christian doctrine.

d4u7211 02-23-2013 05:37 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117 (Post 3868296)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning



http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...-of-proof.html



This thread is in the Critical Thinking forum. Arguments based on logical fallacies do not have merit.

ilu <3

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 05:55 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
What makes me happy is the idea to reflect on my beliefs and discuss of the perceptions of the others. If that's not in your taste you have no obligation coming here and telling all of us we're a bunch of pricks for doing so and that we're all going to die eventually. I don't even think this thread was evolving half as bad as the last one. You can just pass if you are offended with people discussing their opinions, we can live with that.

ELRayford 02-23-2013 06:03 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." -GB Shaw

Nothing has bred as much intolerance towards our fellow man as religion has. So much death and persecution has been done in the name of religion, and it's still happening.
If we are to succeed, we need to work with our fellow man and focus on fixing what is immediately important, the tangible realm of existence you and I currently reside in, not what may or may not happen in the unproven afterlife.

We need to do away with these intolerant beliefs which are holding us back, and be united not as christians or muslims or jews etc, but as the human race so that we truly explore the vastness and beauty of space, both inner and outer.

There is no need for religion, a person can live a full and rewarding life without any faith. Almost every aspect of human interaction that is claimed to come from religion is as easily and more properly attributed to instinctive survival social interactions that we share with animals. The concern that "yol'll go to hell if you don't belive" is not supported by any reputable evidence.

qqwref 02-23-2013 06:06 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868184)
If God lied, then I guess the Bible would not be credible. So I challenge you to find me one lie within the Bible. Good luck :)

I will be happy to link you to sites that show places in the Bible where something is stated unambiguously, and then the exact opposite is stated unambiguously somewhere else. There are even situations in which a number's value is given very differently in different places. Would you not agree that, if two statements directly contradict each other, one must be incorrect?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868184)
The stories in the Bible are historical fact, not myths.

Haha oh wow, you're one of THOSE, huh?

RB_Spirit 02-23-2013 06:08 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ELRayford (Post 3868427)
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." -GB Shaw

Nothing has bred as much intolerance towards our fellow man as religion has. So much death and persecution has been done in the name of religion, and it's still happening.
If we are to succeed, we need to work with our fellow man and focus on fixing what is immediately important, the tangible realm of existence you and I currently reside in, not what may or may not happen in the unproven afterlife.

We need to do away with these intolerant beliefs which are holding us back, and be united not as christians or muslims or jews etc, but as the human race so that we truly explore the vastness and beauty of space, both inner and outer.

There is no need for religion, a person can live a full and rewarding life without any faith. Almost every aspect of human interaction that is claimed to come from religion is as easily and more properly attributed to instinctive survival social interactions that we share with animals. The concern that "yol'll go to hell if you don't belive" is not supported by any reputable evidence.

Neither is evolution IMO, MSM and popular science isn't the only place for logical resources(heh as if, why did i say logical)

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 06:23 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit
Reflecting your own beliefs is one thing, but stating how corrupt/insufficient anothers belief is, is downright ignorant.

Like Mollochepalus said, I think you've got the wrong idea. This discussion has started a while back and has now reached a point where it has been pinned down to its most fundamental issues. It's pretty clear that if you're getting it out of context you might think it's aggressive to point the flaws of each other argumentation but it's necessary to arising a good discussion. We're not being rude since we know that at the end of the day, we'll stick probably still stick to our opinion. At least we generate reflection for viewers and participants.

As of me, I think religion serves a purpose of faith and moral (reassurance in death) solely and should not be taken as a way of thinking. Either way, there is no evidence in the Bible that says how to use it correctly and it certainly doesn’t say anywhere if it has to be the only component of our faith.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 06:30 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117 (Post 3868296)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...-of-proof.html
This thread is in the Critical Thinking forum. Arguments based on logical fallacies do not have merit.

Maybe you are too focused on why I can't prove God exists to you rather than trying to understand why God exists.

My responses are not for the purpose to prove anything to you. I can not prove why God exists to you. Only God can prove to you why he exists. I can only share with you the knowledge that was given to me through God. You can either choose to accept it or not. That's your choice.

How can you learn anything if you are not willing to accept anything? When you are in grade school, or high school, or college, do you not sit and listen to the information that your teacher/professor shares with you? How do you expect to pass your courses if not to study the material that is to be given during a test or exam?

The reality is this: you are choosing which bits of information you are willing to accept rather than keeping an open mind as to the possibilites of what information or knowledge is out there that you currently do not know. Just like now, you do not know God, but if you truly wanted to know God, why spend your time disproving him instead of accepting the "word" that is given to you? When you want to pass a math test, do you not try to understand the material given by taking notes or mentally storing it, or do you spend your time constantly arguing with your math professor as to why such an equation came to be; one who is trying to teach the class the material so that they may learn? Most of you who ask me about God don't want to know about God, so you will not understand. Just like those of you who do not want to pass a math test, will not study or will not pay attention in class, so you will not understand all of it and most likely not do well on the test.

If your central focus is to argue or dispute everything you don't understand, then frankly, you don't understand life. This only makes you horrible listeners and eventually miserable people, even though you won't openly admit it. do any of you hope to get married one day and start a family? What do you think marriage is? What is marriage based on? Do you think you can honestly say you can manage a beautiful loving family if you're constanly arguing with them over petty things that are unnecessary to argue about to begin with? Is it not better to just forgive the mistakes that occur and continue to love instead of always blaming people for their actions? Why be a hypocrite?

You have to surrender your ego and pride and admit that you do not know everything, and must respect the fact that there is an ultimate authority that is greater than you and I.

I know when some of you respond to posts like these are quick to mock or dismiss certain claims, but have you ever really taken the time to think about the reason why you do this? Are you really content with being this way? There is so much all of you can learn if only you opened your hearts as well as your minds, not because I said so, but because there is something greater then yourselves. A lot of you demand proof and evidence and are quick to want and want and want more. Why be so concerned with what you want? Is that not selfish? When you live amongst a collection of people who constantly want soo much for their own-selves, does that not bring about chaos?

Why waste your time arguing and fighting and always trying to find a reason to prove something wrong when you can spend that time loving your family and friends as you would wish for them to love you? Don't divide yourselves from each other and think you can do everything yourself. You can't. The very foundation of a functioning society is based on the collaboration of multiple familes, not just your own.

I continue to post in this thread despite all the disrespectful trolls because if I can shed some light on just 1 person reading through this thread, then I would have done my job in helping a fellow brother or sister.

rushyrulz 02-23-2013 06:32 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868184)
The stories in the Bible are historical fact, not myths.

Oh my God. (sorry for breaking the 3rd commandment jk not rly)

noname219 02-23-2013 06:39 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
How can you learn anything if you are not willing to accept anything? When you are in grade school, or high school, or college, do you not sit and listen to the information that your teacher/professor shares with you? How do you expect to pass your courses if not to study the material that is to be given during a test or exam?

You can learn stuff without accepting the fundamentals of it. You can learn about the Bible or evolution for exemple without accepting that they are true.

Choofers 02-23-2013 06:41 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexDest (Post 3868443)
i believe in a god

his name is moscato

hi fucking five.


This thread is always destined to be dumb. Just stop, please.

All of the atheists on this site honestly would not give a shit about your beliefs if you didn't try to use your "proof" for God to convert us. Your proof is shit. This thread is shit. I'm mad.

ilikexd 02-23-2013 06:42 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
...I can not prove why God exists to you. Only God can prove to you why he exists. I can only share with you the knowledge that was given to me through God. You can either choose to accept it or not. That's your choice.

How can you learn anything if you are not willing to accept anything? When you are in grade school, or high school, or college, do you not sit and listen to the information that your teacher/professor shares with you?

The information taught in school is mostly readily testable and verifiable.

Mollocephalus 02-23-2013 06:42 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
That's not what he intends. He thinks that, since he was probably indoctrinated, when you "learn" something you actually have to interiorize every single aspect of it without any critical thinking.

PriestREA 02-23-2013 06:44 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choofers (Post 3868459)
hi fucking five.


This thread is always destined to be dumb. Just stop, please.

All of the atheists on this site honestly would not give a shit about your beliefs if you didn't try to use your "proof" for God to convert us. Your proof is shit. This thread is shit. I'm mad.

Well put. Generally people won't get mad/defensive of their own beliefs unless you ineffectively/rudely shove it down people's throats.

Circular thinking + dodging questions is all I've seen in this thread. Some people have brought up pretty logical arguments and you've seeked to quash them in quite baffling ways. Hands down, the arguments here are meretricious at best. However, due to some of my human nature, I am not beneath arguing about my beliefs.

Hakulyte 02-23-2013 06:45 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

Mollocephalus 02-23-2013 06:46 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choofers (Post 3868459)
hi fucking five.


This thread is always destined to be dumb. Just stop, please.

All of the atheists on this site honestly would not give a shit about your beliefs if you didn't try to use your "proof" for God to convert us. Your proof is shit. This thread is shit. I'm mad.

Says formerly hardcore christian :shock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 3868471)
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

THISx10000

PriestREA 02-23-2013 06:46 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 3868471)
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

I'd like to second this and ask the same question on Hakulyte's behalf.

Frank Munoz 02-23-2013 06:47 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I'm not trying to convince you to believe anything but, your god doesn't exist in the way you think it does.

God is as real as that Vegeta/Whoever that is in your profile picture JJTrixX.

ilikexd 02-23-2013 06:48 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 3868471)
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

I think I can predict the answer, and I know how I would respond to that answer, but I'll let who you directed it to answer it.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 07:03 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 3868471)
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

Why should a student continue their education beyond the 8th grade?

PriestREA 02-23-2013 07:05 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868494)
Why should a student continue their education beyond the 8th grade?

Because jobs require prerequisites to ensure worker capability and competency. An 8th grader generally lacks the mental capacity and/or knowledge to ensure a steady career and growth in their future lives. That's a very bad way to answer Hakulyte's question, so I'll pose it again.

Why do people need to believe in God when they can be happy without those beliefs? Isn't life not about the betterment of one's psyche (through wellness exercises and critical thinking; not necessarily spiritual enlightenment) and physical state?

Frank Munoz 02-23-2013 07:05 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868494)
Why should a student continue their education beyond the 8th grade?

I am honestly really disappointed in this answer.

Mollocephalus 02-23-2013 07:09 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25 (Post 3868502)
arguing with people as to whether or not they believe in a higher power is akin to arguing about whether or not they enjoy the taste of salmon.

Except no one argues that your life is shallow and you're lost without salmon.

PriestREA 02-23-2013 07:11 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus (Post 3868505)
Except no one argues that your life is shallow and you're lost without salmon.

You are very lost without the guidance of Salmon. Go forth and embrace its pink fleshed glory.

Tarrik 02-23-2013 07:14 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
This thread makes me sad

qqwref 02-23-2013 07:14 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus (Post 3868464)
That's not what he intends. He thinks that, since he was probably indoctrinated, when you "learn" something you actually have to interiorize every single aspect of it without any critical thinking.

Thinking's for nerds. You're not a nerd, are you?

Neeeeeeeeeeeeerd.

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 07:18 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte
Why should I believe in God if I can be happy without beliefs? Serious question.

Nothing forces you to have a belief. However, since it is variable and subjective for everyone, one might find that it might be profitable to you to place his faith in a spiritual being, as his happiness might be increased (feeling of fulfillment, spiritual channeling, reassurance over death, etc.). Although, the same is a applicable for choosing not to believe.

But since the results are not predictable, I believe there is no valid reason whatsoever in believing in a deity.

Edit: At least in a consequentialist sense.

PriestREA 02-23-2013 07:20 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde (Post 3868517)
Nothing forces you to have a belief. However, since it is variable and subjective for everyone, one might find that it might be profitable to you to place his faith in a spiritual being, as his happiness might be increased (feeling of fulfillment, spiritual channeling, reassurance over death, etc.). Although, the same is a applicable for choosing not to believe.

But since the results are not predictable, I believe there is no valid reason whatsoever in believing in a deity.

I am far more satisified with this response. You remain quite objective by analyzing both points while taking into light someone's wants or presumed needs of believing in a deity. I like the use of the word "might" to keep it fair.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 07:22 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PriestREA (Post 3868496)
Because jobs require prerequisites to ensure worker capability and competency. An 8th grader generally lacks the mental capacity and/or knowledge to ensure a steady career and growth in their future lives.

:)

Mollocephalus 02-23-2013 07:23 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
All good except the analogy is fundamentally wrong

dAnceguy117 02-23-2013 07:24 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
My responses are not for the purpose to prove anything to you. I can not prove why God exists to you. Only God can prove to you why he exists. I can only share with you the knowledge that was given to me through God. You can either choose to accept it or not. That's your choice.

My responses are for the purpose of contributing to the debate. I would like to gain some insight into why people believe what they do, and to examine those beliefs critically.

How can God prove to someone that He exists? What would such a proof entail?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
How can you learn anything if you are not willing to accept anything? When you are in grade school, or high school, or college, do you not sit and listen to the information that your teacher/professor shares with you? How do you expect to pass your courses if not to study the material that is to be given during a test or exam?

Most academic courses teach observable facts to students. Young students likely accept the validity of what they're being taught without questioning, but older students can discern why the material is grounded in factual knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
Just like now, you do not know God, but if you truly wanted to know God, why spend your time disproving him instead of accepting the "word" that is given to you?

We are currently discussing the topic of atheism vs. theism. Participants in the debate should not begin with the premise that a god does or does not exist. That's what we're here to explore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
When you want to pass a math test, do you not try to understand the material given by taking notes or mentally storing it, or do you spend your time constantly arguing with your math professor as to why such an equation came to be; one who is trying to teach the class the material so that they may learn?

Actually, understanding the reasoning or proof behind a mathematical principle will lead to an increased ability to apply the principle correctly. Asking questions in class tends to help students tremendously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
Most of you who ask me about God don't want to know about God, so you will not understand.

People who "want to know about God" may be falling into a pattern of confirmation bias. Preconceived ideas about whether Premise X is true or false does not make Premise X more true or more false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
If your central focus is to argue or dispute everything you don't understand, then frankly, you don't understand life. This only makes you horrible listeners and eventually miserable people, even though you won't openly admit it.

How do you know that someone is miserable without said person proclaiming, "I am miserable?" Why are other people horrible listeners if, after listening intently and examining thoroughly, they do not reach the same conclusion as you do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868448)
do any of you hope to get married one day and start a family? What do you think marriage is? What is marriage based on? Do you think you can honestly say you can manage a beautiful loving family if you're constanly arguing with them over petty things that are unnecessary to argue about to begin with? Is it not better to just forgive the mistakes that occur and continue to love instead of always blaming people for their actions? Why be a hypocrite?

I don't think any of these ideas are relevant. Some secular families are successful and happy. Some theistic families struggle to stay close and support each other. Many families have parents and siblings with different beliefs.


JJTrixX, much of your post comes off as religious preaching. That's not the purpose of this thread.


edit: wow I cannot keep up with the posting rate here

Crazyjayde 02-23-2013 07:25 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868525)
:)

Best representation of christian rhetorics right there.

xVaLoRx 02-23-2013 07:34 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
it's times like this that make me wish Christopher Hitchens was alive and active on ffr forums

PriestREA 02-23-2013 07:36 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xVaLoRx (Post 3868541)
it's times like this that make me wish Christopher Hitchens was alive and active on ffr forums

Absolutely this.

FissionMailed1 02-23-2013 07:41 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
I said I wasn't going to take this thread seriously, but JJTrixX's responses are absolutely terrible and make me really mad.

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 07:45 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1 (Post 3868554)
I said I wasn't going to take this thread seriously, but JJTrixX's responses are absolutely terrible and make me really mad.

Do not be angry my friend, I love you.

V-Ormix 02-23-2013 07:46 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25 (Post 3868502)
arguing with people as to whether or not they believe in a higher power is akin to arguing about whether or not they enjoy the taste of salmon.

oh my "god", I am dead

ilikexd 02-23-2013 07:47 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1 (Post 3868554)
I said I wasn't going to take this thread seriously, but JJTrixX's responses are absolutely terrible and make me really mad.

It's very hard not to get sucked in, but I already won several days ago when he got so frustrated at my straightforward responses that he told me I had a reading deficiency.

xVaLoRx 02-23-2013 07:56 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868567)
Do not be angry my friend, I love you.

I thought the bible was against homosexuality

JJTrixX 02-23-2013 07:56 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 3868575)
It's very hard not to get sucked in, but I already won several days ago when he got so frustrated at my straightforward responses that he told me I had a reading deficiency.

congratulations on your victory XD, and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying you had a reading deficiency.


@ xValorx

you are correct.

rushyrulz 02-23-2013 08:40 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3868494)
Why should a student continue their education beyond the 8th grade?

DONE. lol


This is a lost cause.

EDIT: If there IS a God, he will let this thread DIE. I am miserable as a result of this thread and God isn't giving me enough divine intervention to numb the pain of reading half this shit.

PriestREA 02-23-2013 09:20 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3868654)
DONE. lol


This is a lost cause.

EDIT: If there IS a God, he will let this thread DIE. I am miserable as a result of this thread and God isn't giving me enough divine intervention to numb the pain of reading half this shit.

When you're lost, always revert to Salmon for the answer

EtienneSM 02-23-2013 09:26 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Praise the Flying Salmon Monster.

Amen.

devonin 02-23-2013 09:31 PM

Re: I wasn't done with atheism/theism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rules of this Forum
5/ Unfalsifiable claims are not allowed. What this means is basically: No matter how strongly you choose to believe something, if that something cannot be proven or disproven, you cannot use it as evidence in discussions. As a practical rule it means that threads about religion are on very shaky ground. You can discuss religions and religious concepts to your heart's content provided you have proper evidence to back them up, but faith-based claims simply lead to flamewars, and juvenile "yes it is, no it isn't" back-and-forths that make everyone's day worse.

Please remove JJTrixX from this forum until he learns to follow the rules.


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