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Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:13 PM

Atheism/Theism thread
 
Here is a thread for having whatever bullshit discussions you want about this stuff

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:15 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I'd rather talk on mic, i can't take you guys' and your keyboard trolling serious, add me if you're able to, skype name is L2eality.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:15 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Pop: need a spot to isolate discussion when other religious threads devolve into the same old debates

take it here instead

ilikexd 02-14-2013 05:16 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit (Post 3861490)
Well i have no reply to that, simply because this has gone too far

What is your reply, now that there is a new thread?
Also, I cannot use Skype at the moment.

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:20 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I'm actually pretty curious as to why people still believe in higher powers.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:22 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choofers (Post 3861500)
I'm actually pretty curious as to why people still believe in higher powers.

Serious answer: Emotional utility + ignorance

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:24 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861502)
ignorance


rushyrulz 02-14-2013 05:30 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 


I'll start off by saying historically, more bad things have come from religion than good, therefore it is an infectious disease that we seeminly get within the first few years of our lives that lasts until high school/college for most people (nowadays). It does more harm than good, and while the philosophies might be good, we don't need religion to teach us them.

Poison- 02-14-2013 05:34 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by choofers (Post 3861505)

That was actually hilarious

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:34 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 3861495)
What is your reply, now that there is a new thread?
Also, I cannot use Skype at the moment.

Regardless, i'm going to be troll bait, simply because i'm the minority here, ffr is atheist dominant as far as i've seen, just add me on skype sometime and i'll chat with you ~

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:36 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
RB, if you're a christian I suggest reading the Bible.

rushyrulz 02-14-2013 05:38 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Half the shit in the bible doesn't even apply to modern christianity anyway. Most of this is the damning anti-gay crap along with the silly haircut laws etc.

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:41 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Reading the Bible will make you an atheist, if you're religion's main book is the Bible, anyway.

iironiic 02-14-2013 05:43 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
My religious beliefs are pretty... arbitrary. I won't bother mentioning it here though since I have a hard time seeing people here respecting what I truly believe. I have only mentioned it to two people, whom are my closest friends of the many that I have made in my life.

I will say that I am not atheist though.

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:43 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit (Post 3861448)
I don't expect people to change their point of view, i'm just coming at this topic from a non-bias point of view, i'm neither here nor there, i'm neutral on this particular subject, i'm just not as close minded as some people here~

And once again..@Choofers. I'm neither here nor there, i guess you could say i'm on the, "fence" because i'm neither Theist, or Atheist, if that makes sense. But i'm sure it doesn't to some people, i'm still developing an opinion, perhaps this thread could help.

Coolboyrulez0 02-14-2013 05:43 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861502)
Serious answer: Emotional utility + ignorance

and additionally, which i guess is a sub-tangent of ignorance, another big one is the passing down of religion via family / communities.
like many belief systems or political ideologies, they are usually passed down from family to family if you remain ignorant as to not build your own viewpoint but rather blindly accept the beliefs of your ancestors or local communities to be true. what's the term for this passing down of belief systems via family, reincarnate? It eludes me right now.

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:44 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I respect people's right to believe what they want to believe.

I don't respect religion. (o:

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:44 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
It's really, really hard to be both scientifically literate and theist at the same time because you start to see why religion simply isn't needed to explain anything you think it might

bballa48 02-14-2013 05:45 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choofers (Post 3861521)
Reading the Bible will make you an atheist, if you're religion's main book is the Bible, anyway.

I regret that I am starting to realize this, haha.

I would like to take this moment to formally apologize for any batshit crazy arguments I made in the past.

I am definitely not atheist, but all the logical evidence is on that side. I wish Christians could just accept the Bible is flawed beyond repair and just focus on the basic tenants, i.e. God made us and wants us to love everyone so we can all live in paradise. The end.

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:48 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861527)
It's really, really hard to be both scientifically literate and atheist at the same time because you start to see why religion simply isn't needed to explain anything you think it might

I'm definitely open to atheism, i just find it rather hard to believe any given thing cited from a scientist, just as i find it hard to believe in any given religion thats' only supposed facts are from a book. Everyone in the lent thread definitely misunderstood me when i opened this debate, i meant to be as FAIR as possible, not rant about my religious beliefs(Which i don't have)

Coolboyrulez0 02-14-2013 05:48 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choofers (Post 3861526)
I respect people's right to believe what they want to believe.

I don't respect religion. (o:

Also this, plus from my experience, at least in real life, if you out yourself as a an atheist, people wish to convert you or damn you to hell instead of the other way around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25 (Post 3861531)
If you look at it purely as a work of literature, the bible is actually pretty cool.

Most definitely one of the best pieces of fiction ever written.

j-rodd123 02-14-2013 05:49 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
don't equate atheism to science tho lol

Dynam0 02-14-2013 05:49 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats or judging someone on what they believe, regardless of how wrong it might be.

j-rodd123 02-14-2013 05:50 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats.

and this post is pretty much me too

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:51 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit (Post 3861532)
I'm definitely open to atheism, i just find it rather hard to believe any given thing cited from a scientist, just as i find it hard to believe in any given religion thats' only supposed facts are from a book. Everyone in the lent thread definitely misunderstood me when i opened this debate, i meant to be as FAIR as possible, not rant about my religious beliefs(Which i don't have)

The difference is that science is based in hard evidence, whereas religion is not.

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:51 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats or judging someone on what they believe, regardless of how wrong it might be.

I 100% respect that about you, and i'm basically on the same boat as you as far as beliefs go.

Coolboyrulez0 02-14-2013 05:52 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
On a less serious note, something that I think all "camps" (atheists, agnostics, theists) can laugh about:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/checkmate-atheists

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 05:53 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861537)
The difference is that science is based in hard evidence, whereas religion is not.

Yeah, i understand that. But i'm not the kind of person that will take proclaimed facts word for word, i'm more of a hands on person, i would need solid evidence of my own to form a particular belief, guess i'm never going to have beliefs on how this world was formed. .___________.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:53 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats or judging someone on what they believe, regardless of how wrong it might be.

If you've paid attention to the political landscape of the USA, however, it's pretty clear that the religious influence over things is a far, far greater evil than "the annoying atheist who makes fun of you."

There are plenty of atheists who are still dumb as shit when it comes to scientific literacy -- in which case I would say they are right, but for the "wrong" reasons. Of course I fall into the camp of those who think that people should be able to back up why they believe what they do.

iironiic 02-14-2013 05:56 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats or judging someone on what they believe, regardless of how wrong it might be.

Bingo. And likewise for me. This sums up the thread well. Props.

Dynam0 02-14-2013 05:56 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
@Reincarnate

I take a pragmatic stance because we haven't attained an answer to confirm or deny a supreme being. That would be my why anyways :p

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:57 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RB_Spirit (Post 3861541)
Yeah, i understand that. But i'm not the kind of person that will take proclaimed facts word for word, i'm more of a hands on person, i would need solid evidence of my own to form a particular belief, guess i'm never going to have beliefs on how this world was formed. .___________.


Well, facts are facts. You can't dispute facts. They're the same for me, the same for you, and the same for everyone -- considering that we all share the same reality.

As for "solid evidence," there's plenty of it. We know for a fact that our Earth formed from accretion, and this is something you can even look out and see happening in space. The cool thing about astronomy is that you can look back in time due to the way the speed of light works. You can see galaxies/planets/stars undergoing all sorts of different stages of life. Our planet is no exception, as we're just one of many, many, many, many.

bballa48 02-14-2013 05:57 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861542)
If you've paid attention to the political landscape of the USA, however, it's pretty clear that the religious influence over things is a far, far greater evil than "the annoying atheist who makes fun of you."

.

Agreed, and it needs to stop.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 05:57 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861547)
@Reincarnate

I take a pragmatic stance because we haven't attained an answer to confirm or deny a supreme being. That would be my why anyways :p


Then I kindly ask you to read this and get back to me (it's one page and will take you no more than a couple minutes)

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

Choofers 02-14-2013 05:59 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
To me if you have your own beliefs and they allow you to live a happier and fulfilled life then who the fuck cares. Just don't go cramming it down other people's throats or judging someone on what they believe, regardless of how wrong it might be.

I really wish this was the way religions worked but, unfortunately, a goal of almost every religion is to gather more followers.

It pisses me off when I'm at my aunts house because she's so adamant about "setting me right again with God." But my mom's just like "hey I respect your beliefs but I'll still pray for you," and leaves it at that.

rushyrulz 02-14-2013 06:02 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I call myself agnostic so I can say a hail mary on my death bed and at least have a shot at getting to heaven.

Ohaider 02-14-2013 06:02 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861535)
Beliefs are beliefs. I can't call myself atheist, more agnostic really. Pure atheists annoy me more than the average religious person does btw since they scoff at any other belief other than "there is no god/deity/supreme being"

Shit, this.
Overly athiest people annoy me more than overly religious people

I respect any one thats a part of a religion or belief and respects other peoples religions or beliefs even if they don't agree

Hate those fucking athiests that are the most retaliative elitist people in any instance that religion is even mentioned lmao. Got their own stereotype

RB_Spirit 02-14-2013 06:04 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3861559)
i call myself agnostic so i can say a hail mary on my death bed and at least have a shot at getting to heaven.

lmfao dead!!!!

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 06:05 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
IMO it comes down to what you mean by "respect."

Do I "respect" your beliefs? Well, by this it means I won't treat you unfairly because you believe in God, because that belief in itself is harmless. It's not affecting me any more than your preference for ice cream. It's what you want to believe -- so be it.

However, if your belief involves something where you think it's your "right" to impinge on me, or that your God "speaks to/for you" and justifies your ability to screw with me... there's no way in hell I respect that.

Dawkins is an asshole, but basically this:


Choofers 02-14-2013 06:05 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3861559)
I call myself agnostic so I can say a hail mary on my death bed and at least have a shot at getting to heaven.

mfw pascal's wager

Pseudo Enigma 02-14-2013 06:06 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861565)
IMO it comes down to what you mean by "respect."

Do I "respect" your beliefs? Well, by this it means I won't treat you unfairly because you believe in God, because that belief in itself is harmless. It's not affecting me any more than your preference for ice cream. It's what you want to believe -- so be it.

Oh cool someone typed what I wanted to say. I agree.

Dynam0 02-14-2013 06:07 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861550)
Then I kindly ask you to read this and get back to me (it's one page and will take you no more than a couple minutes)

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

This simply stated that there are no absolute truths, correct? I guess knowing this, I will forever be agnostic then.

I wouldn't care if the universe were created or not anyways. It shouldn't influence how I live my life should it? I see direct physical consequences to actions, none of this 'fate' crap. No divine intervention here. Although as that article says, what is evidence anyways? In the end it's simply a belief and I am probably trying to impose mine on others too much now. See ya :p

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 06:15 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861569)
I wouldn't care if the universe were created or not anyways. It shouldn't influence how I live my life should it?

Whether you care about any of this or not is a separate question from whether or not X is true/false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynam0 (Post 3861569)
This simply stated that there are no absolute truths, correct? I guess knowing this, I will forever be agnostic then.

The simple point: If something has no physical evidence, it's indistinguishable from that thing not existing.

This applies to infinitely many things. We can't disprove Thor, we can't disprove Zeus, we can't disprove Yahweh, we can't disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we can't disprove the Parallel Dimension of Blue Hedgehogs, etc. There are many things we don't believe it because we have no reason to believe in them until shown otherwise.

Most atheists are technically agnostic atheists -- "We don't believe in Gods, but we don't know for certain." Atheists don't know for a fact that there is no God, but they also don't know for a fact that we all aren't just brains in jars undergoing an Experience Engine Matrix, either. Again, though, until some reason presents itself, why give any one arbitrary evidence-less idea credence over another?

Attractives New Alt 02-14-2013 06:17 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

Choofers 02-14-2013 06:19 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt (Post 3861579)
many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

i lol'd heartily

Attractives New Alt 02-14-2013 06:20 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
you might see more if you just close your eyes

Pseudo Enigma 02-14-2013 06:29 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt (Post 3861579)
many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

aren't you that guy who tried to convince me that life is like a sponge?

xVaLoRx 02-14-2013 06:29 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt (Post 3861579)
when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

what

ilikexd 02-14-2013 06:42 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861577)
until some reason presents itself, why give any one arbitrary evidence-less idea credence over another?

Are you referring to theism vs. atheism, or one theism versus another?

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 06:49 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikexd (Post 3861607)
Are you referring to theism vs. atheism, or one theism versus another?

In the context of your question, one theism versus another -- but it applies to anything without evidence in general.

ScylaX 02-14-2013 07:11 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I like to think that there is a God.
I find it to be intellectually boring to use God as an answer for everything. And I kinda dislike the type of people that will try to convert you or whatever, I find this to be as scary than skinheads filled with hatred toward everything that is alternative to them.

Still I use to think that there is a God.

Also saying there are plenty of bad things that came with religion, implying that religion is more "bad" than "good" is a somewhat simple position to hold. I guess you think the "bad" you consider that emanated from religion had nothing to see with the ignorance of some people or merely the social context around it and all ; most of historical facts have a STRONG historical context to it and I don't think things would have been less... "bloody" if people didn't believed in a supreme being, they believed the beliefs at the time because they had no other way around. All that was about having beliefs about how the world was functioning ;
Then people used religion to legitimate wars and genocides and some shit like that, it doesn't mean religion was essentially bad but that religion was usually used as a tool to serve the interest of the power that led a said country, region, etc.
Rome was a super polytheist country and they didn't made their wars in the name of gods. Still their manners were VERY rough and all.

tl;dr stop making historical reductionism/cum hoc ergo propter hoc sophisms. PLEEEAAASE
The one and only problem I can see is how people can believe in something and force you to it, no need to believe in a religion to do that.

As for me God can be a company.
It's just there to fill the emptiness I can find sometimes.
And I'm really hostile toward any so-called proof pretending that God exists. 100% of the arguments that are saying "IT'S THE ABSOLUTE PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF A SUPREME BEING" are bullshit.

I don't know what exactly my definition of God can be, probably not a "supreme being that has all the powers", but this is still there and I like to preserve my belief.
I also have a sincere sympathy for people that believe in god and all, I respect religion, I like the ideas religion can give, how it can make your mind think about new horizons and all. That's what I like about it.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 07:17 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3861633)
Also saying there are plenty of bad things that came with religion, implying that religion is more "bad" than "good" is a somewhat simple position to hold. I guess you think the "bad" you consider that emanated from religion had nothing to see with the ignorance of some people or merely the social context around it and all ; most of historical facts have a STRONG historical context to it and I don't think things would have been less... "bloody" if people didn't believed in a supreme being, they believed the beliefs at the time because they had no other way around. All that was about having beliefs about how the world was functioning ;
Then people used religion to legitimate wars and genocides and some shit like that, it doesn't mean religion was essentially bad but that religion was usually used as a tool to serve the interest of the power that led a said country, region, etc.
Rome was a super polytheist country and they didn't made their wars in the name of gods. Still their manners were VERY rough and all.


0 02-14-2013 07:27 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
all hail the almighty flying spaghetti monster

adlp 02-14-2013 07:36 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
never fear, adlp is here

adlp 02-14-2013 07:39 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
the people who say they are atheist because they read the bible are the same people who say they are christian because they read the bible

so

im doubting any of you ever read the bible in full lol stop trying to be profound like that

customstuff 02-14-2013 07:42 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adlp (Post 3861655)
im doubting any of you ever read the bible in full lol stop trying to be profound like that

To be honest, you can easily see ridiculous, unbelievable, and contradictory statements by reading just a small section of it.

Choofers 02-14-2013 07:56 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
if you read the bible as a non-fiction piece, I don't understand how you could possibly believe in it after finishing

it's obvious that god is not benevolent and all-powerful

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 08:00 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Any rational reading of the Bible makes it pretty abundantly clear that if you take it as any more than mere allegory, you believe in some really weird shit

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 08:15 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
I'd like to point out a few things that I noticed in the previous thread that bothered me.

A theory is just theory:
A theory is a well-substantiated explanation accounting for a body of well-substantiated facts.
(Someone in previous thread said "just a theory". As Asimov said once: "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night". That's in no way the case.)

Atheism is a belief/religion:
Atheism is as much a belief/religion as non-existence is existence. The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven. Believing in the presence is just that; belief. There's no belief required to not believe (herp derp).

JJTrixX 02-14-2013 08:23 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861537)
The difference is that science is based in hard evidence, whereas religion is not.

One thing science will never teach you is 'faith', whereas religion does. The ability to unconditionally believe in something that you can not prove with hard concrete indisputable evidence is far more beautiful and enlightening then any science can ever accomplish.

Love and be loved. The Bible truly is a work of art and there is a reason why it is the greatest story ever written regardless if its content is accurate or fabricated. The Bible's purpose isn't to justify its validity as most naive people suggest, but rather to express the meaning of what 'love' really is and God's overwhelming abundance of it.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

"We love, because He first loved us." John 4:19

A perfect example to understand this concept would be to imagine if you had a son or a daughter. Wouldn't you love your child? Wouldn't you do anything to protect your own flesh and blood and try to do what's best for them? That natural love that you feel for your children comes from the love that God has for us, for we are all children of God.

Everything is connected. Do not deviate from one another, instead try to understand that we are all pieces of a whole. We must work together as a team if we are to ever experience true bliss. Isn't that what we all seek in life?

ELRayford 02-14-2013 08:26 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
The internet is the only place I run into religion. I tend to avoid all things religion. I believe that it is a huge waste of time.

Also,

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 08:27 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861687)
One thing science will never teach you is 'faith', whereas religion does. The ability to unconditionally believe in something that you can not prove with hard concrete indisputable evidence is far more beautiful and enlightening then any science can ever accomplish.

And I take it you think that's a virtue?


Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861687)
Love and be loved. The Bible truly is a work of art and there is a reason why it is the greatest story ever written regardless if its content is accurate or fabricated. The Bible's purpose isn't to justify its validity as most naive people suggest, but rather to express the meaning of what 'love' really is and God's overwhelming abundance of it.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

"We love, because He first loved us." John 4:19

A perfect example to understand this concept would be to imagine if you had a son or a daughter. Wouldn't you love your child? Wouldn't you do anything to protect your own flesh and blood and try to do what's best for them? That natural love that you feel for your children comes from the love that God has for us, for we are all children of God.

Everything is connected. Do not deviate from one another, instead try to understand that we are all pieces of a whole. We must work together as a team if we are to ever experience true bliss. Isn't that what we all seek in life?

So you're implying someone couldn't feel these emotions (minus all the higher power crap) without the stories in the bible?
And even so, there's nothing in your statement that proves that you're right about the existence of a god (or your reasoning for that matter). It's circular logic.

edit: There's just so many things floaty about your statements I don't even know where to begin to counter it.

JJTrixX 02-14-2013 08:38 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._ (Post 3861691)
And I take it you think that's a virtue?




So you're implying someone couldn't feel these emotions (minus all the higher power crap) without the stories in the bible?
And even so, there's nothing in your statement that proves your point.

“There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” (Proverbs 14:12)

The Bible tells us to place our faith in God and not in ourselves. Man’s way is a road to death and God’s way is a road to eternal life.

This is good enough for me because my faith creates a 'peace of mind' . This peace of mind leads to my happiness :)

Do you agree that when ones mind is not at peace, one can not be as happy as one whos mind is at peace?

ScylaX 02-14-2013 08:42 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3861638)

So you consider having a spirituality and believing in a supreme being leads to sanguinary circumstances or something ?

ELRayford 02-14-2013 08:46 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 08:48 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861699)
“There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” (Proverbs 14:12)

The Bible tells us to place our faith in God and not in ourselves. Man’s way is a road to death and God’s way is a road to eternal life.

You realize this cannot be verified whatsoever? As far as we know, it all leads to death. Using the bible as evidence for your belief is the same as using your imagination for your belief. It does not make it correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861699)
This is good enough for me because my faith creates a 'peace of mind' . This peace of mind leads to my happiness :)

"But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable." -Carl Sagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861699)
Do you agree that when ones mind is not at peace, one can not be as happy as one whos mind is at peace?

Ignorance is bliss I guess, but I disagree with your ways, because you're living in a fairytale full of assumptions.

0 02-14-2013 08:51 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 

Riotpolice 02-14-2013 08:53 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Damnit, this thread was getting juicy too....
0, you had to derail it you bastard...

JJTrixX 02-14-2013 08:53 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Sanguinary circumstances will always exist because religion will always exist. Religion will always exist because humans are by definition capable of free will. Whether you believe in one God, multiple Gods, or no God, a belief is still a belief and when you get multiple people together who share a similar belief, that is what essentially makes up a religion.

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 08:56 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861718)
Sanguinary circumstances will always exist because religion will always exist. Religion will always exist because humans are by definition capable of free will. Whether you believe in one God, multiple Gods, or no God, a belief is still a belief and when you get multiple people together who share a similar belief, that is what essentially makes up a religion.

read:

Quote:

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._ (Post 3861685)
Atheism is a belief/religion:
Atheism is as much a belief/religion as non-existence is existence. The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven. Believing in the presence is just that; belief. There's no belief required to not believe (herp derp).


JJTrixX 02-14-2013 09:01 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
You say, "The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven."

I say, the non-existence of a deity is also yet to be proven.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 09:03 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861687)
One thing science will never teach you is 'faith', whereas religion does. The ability to unconditionally believe in something that you can not prove with hard concrete indisputable evidence is far more beautiful and enlightening then any science can ever accomplish.

Love and be loved. The Bible truly is a work of art and there is a reason why it is the greatest story ever written regardless if its content is accurate or fabricated. The Bible's purpose isn't to justify its validity as most naive people suggest, but rather to express the meaning of what 'love' really is and God's overwhelming abundance of it.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

"We love, because He first loved us." John 4:19

A perfect example to understand this concept would be to imagine if you had a son or a daughter. Wouldn't you love your child? Wouldn't you do anything to protect your own flesh and blood and try to do what's best for them? That natural love that you feel for your children comes from the love that God has for us, for we are all children of God.

Everything is connected. Do not deviate from one another, instead try to understand that we are all pieces of a whole. We must work together as a team if we are to ever experience true bliss. Isn't that what we all seek in life?

And yet none of that requires religion. As an atheist, I can have science and things like meaning/love/etc coexist -- no God or belief in the supernatural is needed.

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861724)
You say, "The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven."

I say, the non-existence of a deity is also yet to be proven.

The burden of proof lies on those making the claim. You claim a god exists, prove it.

Choofers 02-14-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861724)
You say, "The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven."

I say, the non-existence of a deity is also yet to be proven.

it doesn't work this way though

edit: "God's love" is killing millions of people in the bible due to their using of free-will (which he gave them) and sending countless people to spend eternity in hell, also for using free-will.

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 09:05 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3861704)
So you consider having a spirituality and believing in a supreme being leads to sanguinary circumstances or something ?

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

-Steven Weinberg


Also see the video I posted earlier about why faith is a pretty dangerous concept

Nullifidian 02-14-2013 09:05 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Asking someone to disprove something as a deity is virtually impossible btw
but so is proving a deity

Reincarnate 02-14-2013 09:06 PM

Re: Atheism/Theism thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JJTrixX (Post 3861724)
You say, "The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven."

I say, the non-existence of a deity is also yet to be proven.

The non-existence of Thor has yet to be proven. The non-existence of peanut-butter creatures from Mkgdggd have yet to be proven.

But do you have any good reason to believe in them?

How do you "prove" something doesn't exist?

And once you answer that question -- what good is a belief in something that can't be disproven? Do you realize why this is worthless as a truth claim?


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