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SKG_Scintill 10-16-2012 10:08 AM

Pronunciation of CH
 
Yes I know, I don't ever come in this subgenre and already 2 threads? Whatever :P

I've been trying to figure out why it is that in some cases the diglyph "ch" is pronounced as a "tsh", in other cases as "k" and in even other cases as "sh": "chimpansee", "chiropractor" and "chic", respectively.

At first I thought it could be the vowel after "ch", but as just was shown, that certainly isn't true. Nor the consonant after "ch[aeiou]".
On the other hand, when "ch" is followed by a consonant, so far it's always been pronounced as a "k" (chrome, chlorine, chronic, etc).

I have yet to research the etymology of the words, if the land of origin is of any cause. That is research for another time.

Does anyone happen to know or have ideas as to what causes the difference in pronunciation?

Pseudo Enigma 10-16-2012 10:22 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
it might be another messed up thing that happened in the course of evolution for English. It might also depend on accent. I for one pronounce it kind of "tch" like.

what I mean is like how Library is no longer Li br ary, but Lie Berry or something in common tongue. Or February is Fe ber ary instead of Fe brue ary.

Certainly something interesting indeed. Let us know if you find the answer-- that is if no one posts it first.

Izzy 10-16-2012 10:52 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
I'm going to guess the origin of words coming from a lot of different places that ended up being conflicting.

ilikexd 10-16-2012 11:01 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Language of origin means everything in this case.

I don't know what you mean by 'ch' vs. 'tsh' in the words 'chimpanzee' and 'chirping'. Both 'ch' clusters are pronounced identically.

'Chic' gets an 'sh' pronunciation because the language of origin is French. It is theorized to be related to the German word 'Schick' "tact", "skill", with the original meaning of 'chic' being " "subtlety". Other words like this are 'charlatan' and 'champagne'.

Words with 'ch' when it has a normal "ch" pronunciation generally come from Romance languages other than French. However, some words attested to very early French can have a 'ch' pronunciation rather than 'sh': 'challenger' from 'chalengeour'. These words still do come from other sources: 'chin' from Germanic 'cin'.

SKG_Scintill 10-16-2012 11:13 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Sorry, I guess my mind went a bit double on that, changed "chirping" to "chiropractor" :P

Edit: rethinking the "ch" being a "k" sound, it does seem like they're all greek words

ilikexd 10-16-2012 11:21 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill (Post 3788416)
Sorry, I guess my mind went a bit double on that, changed "chirping" to "chiropractor" :P

Edit: rethinking the "ch" being a "k" sound, it does seem like they're all greek words

yes

you can just look here for any specific word: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php

SKG_Scintill 10-16-2012 11:26 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
As discussed in prochat, "ache" is an exception to that rule. Well... not really... just haven't found another word with Proto-Germanic origin to confirm it ;)

UserNameGoesHere 10-17-2012 04:26 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma (Post 3788406)
it might be another messed up thing that happened in the course of evolution for English. It might also depend on accent. I for one pronounce it kind of "tch" like.

what I mean is like how Library is no longer Li br ary, but Lie Berry or something in common tongue. Or February is Fe ber ary instead of Fe brue ary.

Certainly something interesting indeed. Let us know if you find the answer-- that is if no one posts it first.

Where are you located that words are pronounced this way? If you pronounce "library" like "lie berry" you're just going to sound like Homer Simpson. (Seriously, he did exactly this on one episode of The Simpsons - it was the crayon in the brain episode)

And I and everyone I've ever heard pronounce February "Febuary" and never "Feberary". The first R is merely silent.

justin_ator 10-17-2012 04:34 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Winsday

ilikexd 10-17-2012 04:45 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UserNameGoesHere (Post 3788865)
Where are you located that words are pronounced this way? If you pronounce "library" like "lie berry" you're just going to sound like Homer Simpson. (Seriously, he did exactly this on one episode of The Simpsons - it was the crayon in the brain episode)

And I and everyone I've ever heard pronounce February "Febuary" and never "Feberary". The first R is merely silent.

I take the effort to pronounce it as it's spelled. The first 'r' isn't at all silent, and pronouncing it as such is an alternate pronunciation that is sometimes called incorrect but by now has become somewhat acceptable.

I do agree that dropping the first 'r' of 'library' sounds terrible. I hear children do it sometimes, but that's it.

justin_ator 10-17-2012 04:46 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
I used to say peppermoni as a kid

ilikexd 10-17-2012 04:53 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justin_ator (Post 3788870)
I used to say peppermoni as a kid

epenthesis

justin_ator 10-17-2012 04:53 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
pasghetti

ilikexd 10-17-2012 04:54 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justin_ator (Post 3788872)
pasghetti

metathesis

:P that one is very funny

justin_ator 10-17-2012 04:55 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
axe you a question?

or how about write a shedewul

ilikexd 10-17-2012 04:57 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justin_ator (Post 3788874)
axe you a question?

or how about write a shedewul

that's assimilation

what's a shedweul?

reuben_tate 10-17-2012 04:58 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
I think the pronunciation of library as lie berry is common enough that it just seems like a douche move to correct somebody on it. :/ I'm guessing why some people don't use the correct pronunciation is because some people find it difficult to pronounce the "brar" part. Going from the br sound to the r is slightly awkward and I actually feel like my mouth went through an obstacle course just to pronounce it correctly.

Also, just saying, it seems like homogeneous is said two ways, mostly depending on what subject it's used in, lol.

ilikexd 10-17-2012 05:05 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reuben_tate (Post 3788876)
I think the pronunciation of library as lie berry is common enough that it just seems like a douche move to correct somebody on it. :/ I'm guessing why some people don't use the correct pronunciation is because some people find it difficult to pronounce the "brar" part. Going from the br sound to the r is slightly awkward and I actually feel like my mouth went through an obstacle course just to pronounce it correctly.

Also, just saying, it seems like homogeneous is said two ways, mostly depending on what subject it's used in, lol.

I feel like the mispronunciation of 'February' as "Febuary" is much more admissible, especially since it's analogous with 'January'.

I just tend hear 'library' only mispronounced by small children, and the irony of mispronouncing that world also bugs me.

runescapedude1126 10-17-2012 05:22 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
bananer

ilikexd 10-17-2012 05:28 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runescapedude1126 (Post 3788879)
bananer

intrusive 'r'

thread is derailed

reuben_tate 10-17-2012 06:56 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
I like to ate...ate...ate...ape-els and bah nay nays

Back to the point though, one has to be considerate for those who speak English as a 2nd language (and we can't just go around assuming that everyone was born and raised learning English as their first). I mean for some, pronouncing the "br" in library might be tough because the "br" sound might not be native in their original language.

Hateandhatred 10-17-2012 07:34 AM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
My English is good

Also you guys should go watch Hotforwords

Cavernio 10-18-2012 04:20 PM

Re: Pronunciation of CH
 
acrosst


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