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-   -   Photoshop Is Hard. (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=118593)

midnghtraver 04-30-2011 01:32 AM

Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Its probably not...



Halp.

supermousie 04-30-2011 04:39 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
So.... What do you want to do with it? O.o

Whatever it is, I'll do it for free.

ddrxero64 04-30-2011 05:04 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
My graphical skills suck haha. I actually agree with the thread title. :P

Spenner 04-30-2011 08:47 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
You could be an expert in every program but still suck balls at creating original artistic pieces.

If you're too lazy to look up/use tutorials, I suggest you just immerse yourself in good design pieces and analyze what's good about then, for a little bit just replicate the looks of the good design pieces so you get a feel for it.

It's very good practice to be browsing a site, seeing an awesome art site or something, then going into photoshop/fireworks and replicating it, plus or minus things that you would improve on.

yo

Also, learn to mask and use the Refine Edge function in photoshop for your crop job. Works swell.

supermousie 04-30-2011 10:16 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I just use a 3rd party plugin for the more intricate work... It beats the Quick Selection Tool 95% of the time.

midnghtraver 04-30-2011 12:06 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spenner (Post 3458545)
Also, learn to mask and use the Refine Edge function in photoshop for your crop job. Works swell.

Stuff I don't know. ^^^

Thats what I meant by halp.

Tutorials are good, but I was hoping for more direct answers that where specific to that picture right up thar.

darkshark 04-30-2011 08:45 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
You didn't specify what you even want to do with that picture so what the hell do you want us to say.

midnghtraver 05-1-2011 12:48 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Like what spenner did. You can obviously see my idea. I just wanted advice about things to do to make it more professional looking.

Xiaounlimited 05-1-2011 01:09 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
i don't see any Thing wrong with It Man ...... Y R U askin stuff ......... its prety Good

NocturneAunamic 05-1-2011 01:17 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Use a better looking font, you can find alot on dafont.com. Don't use that overlaying teal color it looks stupid.

Go on the blending options for your font, experiment with them all, try embossing, gradients, contours, drop shadows, strokes. That stuff, learn from trying yourself.

PrawnSkunk 05-1-2011 02:03 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
good times watching "you suck at photoshop" series

:B

midnghtraver 05-1-2011 02:05 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PrawnSkunk (Post 3459361)
good times watching "you suck at photoshop" series

:B

He's hilarious.

Spenner 05-1-2011 05:08 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I can't read the word after "DJ"

If it's supposed to be, and not just for decoration, readability should come first. Try reading whatever you make left right, from bottom to top, etc. If someone can't read it at first glance it's probably because you need to make it more readable!!!

Basically what I'm saying is don't go all out making your text so funky, you want them to be elements someone reads, not elements someone simply looks at as if they were a photograph or something abstract.

Composition. The girl and the text behind her have a weight in this image that makes no point when looking at it seem relaxing and visually appealing. Maybe even move the E 1 all the way to the left as far as you can, being cropped by the circle, with the E still remaining readable. Don't always remain within the boundaries of even symmetrical balance, asymmetrically balanced pieces are for the most part always more interesting to look at, and have a much more hierarchical composition that lends the reader or viewer not to be lost. It would be like opening a magazine ad and seeing the fine print first, doesn't work that way. It's designed to draw you to the images first, then the headlines, then the subtitles, then the first letter of the column. So yeah, always keep visual flow in mind yeah kinda out of it sorry

darkshark 05-1-2011 10:50 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
^^^ This.

It's also why 99% of all graffiti sucks too. You can't read any of it.

Best advice I can give you; Don't use fonts/effects that look cool, use fonts and effects that look right.

Head over to Katy Perry's website, look at fonts she uses, that would be a good step in the right direction.

Izzy 05-1-2011 11:50 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Crop your images better. I'd start which some rendering tutorials.

midnghtraver 05-2-2011 12:57 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
But I don't want a usual font.
And i'd like to think of graffiti as just abstract art, not font.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a.../Djmilaera.jpg

Spenner 05-2-2011 02:55 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Use hi-res images for textures ALWAYS-- and when you find a hi-res image, view it at 100% before you take out a chunk, because it's likely artifact'd to crap at that size and you'll have to scale it to get a good quality view of it.

If you're going to have a grungy font, think letterforms are rarely going to work because you can't read the letters/tell letters apart as easily. I'm still not sure what your little branding says "DJ MrJJa?"

And while I can accept graffiti as an abstract art in some cases, abstract art still has a quota to meet in terms of principles of design.

http://www.typographyserved.com/?con...=appreciations
http://www.webdesignserved.com/
http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests

Immerse yourself :]

By NO means is every example on those sites good. See if you can pick apart the good from the bad. And spend a good time looking at examples of good design. Like I said, copy it. Replicate it. Make up your own tutorials based on what you're seeing-- research something if you don't know how to do it. Don't just do your own thing when you have no direction if you haven't got the design-mind set. ESPECIALLY dive deep into the typography-served site, look at ways people can make text interesting WHILE STILL MAINTAINING READABILITY. That is a biiiig issue and it won't be cured overnight.

:) goodluck

Phlegmatism 05-2-2011 03:02 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
DJ who? Aside from the text, I think it's of utmost importance to recognize unwanted grainy artifacts created from stretching/distorting. Ask yourself, "Would I see something like this extremely out of place on an Apple device?" Unless you're sweet bro or hella jeff, never expand, only shrink.

Learn in-depth and know how to function: Gradients, brushes, filters, layer blending options, shapes, masks, colors, complementary colors, hues, saturation, brightness... the list goes on
Not necessary, but aesthetically moral: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds
To those who complain about how tutorials suck--why would you put down something that has direct invaluable information in the style of a learning environment? Either you have ADD or believe that there's some magic Photoshop button going to do it for you.

Nullifidian 05-2-2011 04:04 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
You can still have an unusual font. You just have to pick one that doesn't detract from readability.
Also, really search up some basic design principles and then start using photoshop. If you use photoshop without any basic knowledge of design, it's like putting make-up on a hooker.
No matter how much you try to cover it up, it'll still look like shit.

Once you have some basic knowledge of design, just check out a few tutorials to get accustomed to the tools of photoshop. Then start experimenting on your own and see what button gives what outcome.

It's not photoshop that is hard. It's the designing part that's hard.
Photoshop just takes some messing around with it to know how it works.

makdaddy 05-2-2011 05:30 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
this turned into a surprisingly decent thread

good job guys! haha

midnghtraver 05-3-2011 04:09 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Better?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...thanMiller.jpg

Spenner 05-3-2011 09:09 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
In a way, not really. I can see what you're trying at and it's good that you're doin' stuff, but let me critique for your own good :) because there's no better way to improve than to learn from your mistakes:

The 1px outline on the text does nothing but cause a moment of confusion because it contrasts so much around the text yet doesn't make the text more readable.

But there's a bit of a problem altogether with the background you chose-- black text leaks over black background, almost white text is flooded with almost white background. In order to have readability, you have to have contrast. You need to have negative space that directs the eye. Start doing things like moving your head from left to right over your computer screen, with your image on it. With the one you posted, the focal point is the "MI". Do you really want the viewer to see "MI" first? No, you want them to see DJ first, because from there on in the eye reads normally the rest of it (providing that it's still readable).

Think about this kind of thing. Balancing negative space is probably the most important aspect of an aesthetic design.

Back on the topic of contrast, and focal points, what is the most visually interesting part of that? The background. Meaning that when reading, the background distracts from the process of reading and I'm glued to looking at the background instead.

Basically, you're a director here. You're the one that has the power to control what the viewer sees, perceives, and reacts with what you make. In order to do that you need to make visually interesting compositions that are still readable and establish a hierarchy that makes it flow. Who cares about fancy grunge texture, bold typefaces, etc; you should start from square one.

I think you should practice with readability and contrast. I would love for you to try just basic fonts, nothing but flat colours (yes no texture at this point), and try to find something that looks the most easy to read and most pleasant to look at. Colour schemes, difference in font sizes (Remember that you want them to see DJ first, but make sure also that it immediately continues with Miller), and simple easy to read fonts.

Seriously, I'm making a gigantic emphasis on typography, but what's the point in a pretty picture that's promoting a new product without good typography? Every good poster has it. Some of the best stuff out there is mostly typographical elements, a couple of graphics, usually minimal, that add to the ease of reading.

I mighta gone into a bit too much detail here. Oops. But take my advice with an open mind. Being a good designer doesn't happen in one day, nor weeks. It takes a long time to build yourself a mind that calculates and weighs all of the design principles immediately and knows exactly what to do to get the best out of what you see or what you're given with. That's something none of us will ever have but certainly it's worth striving for ;)

midnghtraver 05-3-2011 10:20 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spenner (Post 3460872)
I mighta gone into a bit too much detail here.

No way man, your like the most helpful person on FFR.

And I'll do that for sure.

I'll keep posting my progress in this thread, thanks a lot man.

midnghtraver 05-3-2011 11:01 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
There, simple like you said.
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...ic/Spenner.jpg

who_cares973 05-3-2011 11:08 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
N spenner nathan miller is how i read that lol. pretty cool tho

midnghtraver 05-3-2011 11:10 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who_cares973 (Post 3460946)
N spenner

What?

Are you saying you saw the red N first then read the word?

EDIT:

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...titled-2-1.jpg

I fixed the N but the S and P look different. Added a texture, changed the colors, added a background. tell me if you like it better.

who_cares973 05-3-2011 11:57 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
might want to lose the bubbles it makes the words hard to read

you might also want to balance out the composition. its very one sided

midnghtraver 05-4-2011 01:01 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Okay here, nothing special to the font. No colors, High foreground/background contrast. What about this?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Awords.jpg

EDIT: lol I spelled acknowledge really wrong.

EDIT 2: and appraise. But don't worry about those.

tofurox 05-4-2011 01:39 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnghtraver (Post 3461002)
Okay here, nothing special to the font. No colors, High foreground/background contrast. What about this?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Awords.jpg

EDIT: lol I spelled acknowledge really wrong.

EDIT 2: and appraise. But don't worry about those.

I'm worried. You made me google "avale" haha. Never heard of it xD. For all of you who don't know it means to decend or dismount.

darkshark 05-4-2011 02:07 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
That took me 15 extra seconds to read. When you have to decipher each word, "Alive" doesn't stand out at all. There's such a massive size contrast between the A and the rest of the letters that it throws everything off. It's creative for sure, just could be executed better.

midnghtraver 05-4-2011 09:23 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tofurox (Post 3461023)
I'm worried. You made me google "avale" haha. Never heard of it xD. For all of you who don't know it means to decend or dismount.

Don't worry about the actual words, their just the first 10 A - words that I pulled out of my head.


Quote:

Originally Posted by darkshark (Post 3461047)
That took me 15 extra seconds to read. When you have to decipher each word, "Alive" doesn't stand out at all. There's such a massive size contrast between the A and the rest of the letters that it throws everything off. It's creative for sure, just could be executed better.

Yea, I was thinking about that as I was typing out the smaller text. You kinda read it as it is without inserting the A. On this one i'm not really trying to make anything pop other than the "alive" which I want to be emphasized when you read it, not necessarily read "alive" first.

BeatofIke 05-4-2011 11:28 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I suck at photoshop too.

**Gets tutorials from Rebound**

i love you 05-4-2011 11:33 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I'm not that good btw...

Spenner 05-4-2011 04:31 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnghtraver (Post 3460942)

This is probably my favourite so far! What Whocares is saying is true though-- colour has a big impact on focal point, beware of that as well :D hence the eye is drawn to that big contrast in the N.

And there's a couple pixels jetting off on the curves around the connected letters. But yes, so far I like the experimenting you're doing. Keep at it.

midnghtraver 05-4-2011 04:59 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 


It doesn't look that legit, but I tried. it started as a drawing i did in pencil, then took a picture of with my phone. Ended up throwing it on a fence.

Nullifidian 05-4-2011 05:47 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
quick selection tool + transform + opacity changed
lol

try using different tools and settings. The pen tool for example is great for precicely cutting out graphics and won't cause those ugly white lines if used correctly. Layer blend modes may cause it to look more realistic with the correct blending mode. Just toy around with that. You may have to adjust the image as well to blend it in with the picture using various other settings (ex. photo filter, hue & saturation, color adjustment).

Spenner 05-4-2011 06:56 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
As well, try this: After you have your selection, click the mask tool instead of deleting, then go into the Mask window and click Mask Edge, play around with those tools. It'll do wonders.

midnghtraver 05-28-2011 01:44 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I'm back!

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...3Music/Yes.jpg

Nullifidian 05-28-2011 03:48 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
That's much MUCH better than any of the previous pictures in this thread. Good job.

who_cares973 05-28-2011 09:04 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Wow yeah I agree completely

darkshark 05-28-2011 09:22 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Simplicity and well used font. Much better.

midnghtraver 05-28-2011 09:44 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Thanks guys! Especially from you three.

XCV 05-28-2011 10:51 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnghtraver (Post 3461002)
Okay here, nothing special to the font. No colors, High foreground/background contrast. What about this?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Awords.jpg

EDIT: lol I spelled acknowledge really wrong.

EDIT 2: and appraise. But don't worry about those.

EDIT: Nvm, missed the memo on that one. That does look better than what I could ever manage to do.

Spenner 05-29-2011 11:17 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Agreed that the last pic you posted is the best one yet, keep it up :)

Quigly 05-29-2011 11:29 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
essentially what everyone else said.
although i would move the 'nathan miller' from the corner to maybe right under the main text, to make the formatting more uniform.

midnghtraver 05-30-2011 01:59 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
So I know what you are going to say about this one, "Its hard to read."

So i'm asking, how could I keep the feeling that the white on white provides, and make it easier to read at the same time?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Milla5.jpg

EDIT: Might as well throw this one up too.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...5_897865_n.jpg

Nullifidian 05-30-2011 04:07 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnghtraver (Post 3476367)
So I know what you are going to say about this one, "Its hard to read."

So i'm asking, how could I keep the feeling that the white on white provides, and make it easier to read at the same time?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Milla5.jpg

EDIT: Might as well throw this one up too.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...5_897865_n.jpg

1st one detracts a lot from the readability. One factor is probably because of the blur on the font, but a bigger issue is that it blends in too much with the white of the background. The colors you chose aren't really appealing either imo. I can see the idea but the execution needs work. Not completely sure if you should try to save it though, I think you're better off working on something else.
2nd one is neat but the cutout could use better rendering. Look into using the pen tool for cutting out.
The for him right shoulder in front of the 2 L's and behind the I looks weird btw. Either put that part behind the letters or in front of the letters. Behind is probably better because then you can read the I and L better. Make sure to keep the tie in front because that looks neat and it creates depth.
To render out special effects you need to mess with selections of the RGB layers and paste the selected parts in. This way you preserve transparency (somewhat faking it but it works most of the time).
You could try making some of your own special effects with brushes and layer styles. Overlay and screen layers work really good for making flashy effects.

midnghtraver 05-30-2011 04:27 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
The I should def. not be in front of his arm i don't know what I was thinking there.

Didn't really fix much of what you said, but it looks better for sure.

midnghtraver 05-30-2011 05:00 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 


I put the A in front because I want the impression that the dude is leaning in between the space between the L and the A. It gives it more 3dness.

Spenner 05-30-2011 12:36 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Interesting. The first one won't work with the amount of softness to it, and the lack of coverage around the text. You need to have contrast between those colour swirls > text to make the text readable, right now it's too subtle, and not hard enough.

Number two is pretty cool, I like the idea of it-- what version of Photoshop are you using? If you have access to the Refine Edge/Mask Edge tool, google it, look up a tutorial, play with it. Crop jobs otherwise have basically the same default look-- either they're hard pixelated, straight geometric with anti-alias, or they have a blurry glow from being feathered. The feathered look to the whole edge on the image you're using kinda throws me off near the top, and down below I can see you used a higher radius of feathering and erased it a few times due to the transparency :D which is sometimes a neat effect. However near the top and for some parts on his arms over the text it's a bit weak, I think it needs sharpness.

So yes, try to look into it, it'll give images you crop a cleaner less generic look. Keep it up 8-)

EDIT: As well, I think it would add to the image to have a bunch more "stuff" coming off those places where it's just a plain curve near the edges, doesn't match the look you've created on the right which makes it seem like the whole thing's melting away.

midnghtraver 05-30-2011 03:22 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Yea, the thing about the guy is I wanted to look like he was painted on, so I didn't want hard edges, but I went too far with the arm and i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to fix it.

Mythix 05-31-2011 07:19 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
On the last one, outer glow just doesn't help out.. Get some light brushes and draw uneven edges around it to make it glow and then use glow on that layer instead and she'll get a nice toneout imho :)

Renevatia 06-1-2011 12:27 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnghtraver (Post 3461384)


It doesn't look that legit, but I tried. it started as a drawing i did in pencil, then took a picture of with my phone. Ended up throwing it on a fence.

I like the idea.

The skew seems okay, try to use a different layering method? and consider that there are gaps in the planks so kinda show how paint would show with those gaps, that alone should make it a lot more legit.

Mythix 06-1-2011 04:32 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Renevatia (Post 3477935)
I like the idea.

The skew seems okay, try to use a different layering method? and consider that there are gaps in the planks so kinda show how paint would show with those gaps, that alone should make it a lot more legit.

My first thought was that it's transparent... Grafitti isn't transparent =p


Second though was... The grafitti is casting shadow on the wall? What made you want the piece to cast shadow as if it's hovering 1 feet above it xD

midnghtraver 06-2-2011 04:34 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythix (Post 3478280)

Second though was... The grafitti is casting shadow on the wall? What made you want the piece to cast shadow as if it's hovering 1 feet above it xD

No its not O.o

who_cares973 06-2-2011 04:37 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythix (Post 3478280)
Second though was... The grafitti is casting shadow on the wall? What made you want the piece to cast shadow as if it's hovering 1 feet above it xD

thats the shadow of the graffiti itself lol.

midnghtraver 06-13-2011 11:27 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
So I tried to make a logo, I discovered brush's and real textures.

I couldn't figure out where to put the Milla though. Where do you think I should put it?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Logo-1.jpg

Should it go here?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...sic/Logo-2.jpg

midnghtraver 07-6-2011 05:57 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
I know this is a bump. But it didn't deserve its own thread and it fits with the rest of this.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...background.jpg

Spenner 07-6-2011 11:12 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Heh, that's cool I like it. Looks like it would be plastered on a slushi drink :)

supermousie 07-7-2011 01:15 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
The 'M' is a little more difficult to read than the other letters. Highlight the M and play around with levels -I'm assuming you're using Photoshop- which is Ctrl+L.

Overall, it's a big improvement over the first image you put up. :D

midnghtraver 07-7-2011 03:21 AM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spenner (Post 3499013)
Heh, that's cool I like it. Looks like it would be plastered on a slushi drink :)

I can totally see that haha. I didn't really have any purpose for this I just wanted a different background and i'm slowly discovering all the new things to do with CS5

Spenner 07-7-2011 12:56 PM

Re: Photoshop Is Hard.
 
Hehe, well keep it up! Look how far you've come already 8)



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