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Drugs
Whats your opinion on drugs? All of us have done drugs at least once in our life (even if we didn't know that said substance is considered a drug) legal or illegal.
Do you support specific drugs? Why do you support these drugs? What are the pros/cons to this drug? Do you support drug groups, anti-drug groups? Do you support the business behind it or no? Please, do tell. Also in trying to support your point of view please pull some actual facts. |
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Since illegal drugs kill people, I can't help but saying illegal drugs are bad.
PS No way you're going to have a very stimulating conversation on legal drugs, and there's no reason to argue against them since the worst thing that can happen while taking them is some stupid side effect. Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life. so in summary: Good drugs good, bad drugs bad. |
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Enough said. There's no such thing as an opinion on drugs. |
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Marijuana should be legal just the same as alcohol and cigarettes, the effects arent near as harmful as other illegal drugs
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How is there no such thing as an opinion on drugs? What if you happen to LIKE drugs, good or bad,? Pretty sure liking them is an opinion.
I support earthly drugs to a very high extent. 8) If it grows on the ground, or in the ground, i say go for it. Definitely weed. All that man made garbage is horrible for you. |
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Marijuana is a legal drug in some states and countries. It would probably help the cause if it weren't a bunch of stoners shouting LEGALIZE MARIJUANA MANNN! Which probably leads the people whose decision it is to make it legal kind of weary that if it's legalized, all that will happen is there will be more people driving stoned and killing innocent people. But keep in mind, alcohol WAS illegal before, and has since been legalized (obviously)
I've never tried marijuana, although I'm sure it's not too harmful to your health. It's probably the best option out of the non-chem drugs. Stay away from the shrooms and chem and you'll be fine. Also, don't chug cough syrup. EDIT: Yeah, what smitty said. I still think shrooms are iffy tho. |
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i like that :) |
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I've come to the conclusion recently that I like Marijuana quite a bit, and it's legal in my state with a prescription. Alcohol to an extent but not so much, plus it's a contraindication to HRT; it could kill me, technically, as could cigarettes. Kind of funny in that context that illegal drugs are healthier for me than the legal ones. I'd like to try MDMA at some future date, but I wouldn't dare make a habit of it. Addiction to a neurotoxic substance doesn't seem like my cup of tea, but now that I know the kinds of experiences drugs can give to me I'm more interested in them to say the least.
I would say that if a person is cautious and intelligent, they can explore most drugs to an extent. Marijuana doesn't seem to be bad at all. Heroin can be pretty bad, cocaine can be pretty bad, and meth is something that nobody should touch ever, but as for most other stuff? Pot is fine, worst consequence of shrooms is a fever, LSD if you can actually find it and have a good environment to take it in is fine, MDMA if you don't overdo it is fine (although terrible if you do). Biggest problem with drugs isn't the drugs themselves but impurities, but again, that's just a matter of caution. I'm still very much a libertarian at heart, or perhaps an anarchist of some stripe; certainly not the conventional stripe though. I have too much respect for capitalism but not enough to qualify for the anarcho-capitalist side of things anymore, I don't think. Even stupid people have their rights, whatever the hell a "right" is, and I would say that extends to drug use. Keeping drugs illegal drives their prices up by creating artificial scarcity and also ensures that the people who profit from them are those with the means to evade, bribe, and in the very visible cases of Central and South America, kill law enforcement officials in order to traffic their product. Don't get me wrong, I know people who have screwed up their lives in a serious way with drug use. But in the end, you'll never stop people from making bad decisions, and in this particular case trying to leads to greater death and suffering. It's counter-intuitive but true. tl;dr drugs themselves are largely fine, those that traffic in them aren't, and as a corollary of that government regulations are far from fine because they're what drive drugs underground into the black market and turn a popular product into a source of revenue for terrorists, gangs, and criminals. |
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Lol what the ****.
Good drugs = good / Bad drugs = Bad ? Just were did you brought that from ? That's some frightening conclusion right there. If cigarette was innoxious, it wouldn't kill that much people every year. Same thing for alcohol. Just compare marijuana (illegal) to tabacco (legal) with a serious method and you'll realize the first one is almost inoffensive compared to the second one. @Kilroy_x Well, repression obligatory has its side effects and consequences that are basically symetrics from its nature and "pressure" over the population. It's kinda hard to find a fair media considering its consequences, even though you can judge by yourself, looking at its consequences, if that repression is good or bad for the nation. (compare the Prohibition from our today's laws over drugs if you want) |
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anything in excessive amount is dumb as fuc, but some more harmful than others. really hard to base an opinion on that since some people will relate to overdosing or just taking something once.
I personally hate recreational use of drugs since I've seen its psychological effect on some people close to me. It's a pretty artificial way of enjoying yourself (I even hate myself for drinking at times). They shouldn't be illegal, since it's causing more problems than it's preventing. They are, however, mostly associated with people insecure/unhappy about their own lives. It's a coward's way out of reality. Let's all get drunk and go on skype |
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@Kommi I have a strong opinion about drugs and I hate it too, but I wanted to ask you a question : Do you think you'd still consider drugs as an "artificial way of enjoying yourself" if it hadn't any bad consequence on the human being ?
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It's kinda out of subject, but I don't see the point of living if it's about escaping from your perceptions that allows you to feel the world, just concentrate on how to be positive and the time will help you. Unless there is actually no way from escaping to your conditions.
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Don't make blanket statements unless you know exactly what your blanket is covering. |
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Use your best judgment
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While I'm no longer naive enough to support a fully libertarian blanket legalization of drugs, I'm certainly not naive enough to spout what you just said. Quote:
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It all comes down to how responsible you are when using a particular substance. However, I think sometimes it's hard to say something like "responsible heroin user" and have it be accurate in most cases. Some substances are simply harder on your system than others and screw with things in various ways. Your best bet is to simply educate yourself and understand the risks before you go do something incredibly stupid.
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if you guys are going to base effects on statistics, this thread is done for lmao.
% of people who die from first use of drug % of people who die from overdose % of people who develop mental illness from drugs % of people who use drugs regularly with no physical side effects etc. there isn't a "responsible" way to take drugs, but there are obvious dumbshits who go over the top |
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I'm really not liking the level of uninformed opinion going on in this thread.
Rather than drawing the line between what is illegal and legal, you have to more think about the potential to harm yourself in the process. Opiates (cocaine, heroin, oxy, etc) happens to provide a massive rush. Massive is a severe understatement here, though, as the effects would actually cause so much happiness that you would literally never experience that same level of happiness again, even on subsequent attempts, which is the big danger here. Chasing the dragon is what sends people on the dark road of opiate addiction, and it is incredibly difficult to turn back, both physically and mentally. My opinion on it is that you would need an insane amount of self control, which most people do not have, so if you get sucked in, I won't judge you, but don't come crying to me. Have I tried opiates? No. Would I ever want to? No, because I am very sure that I wouldn't have what it takes to make it back. As for drugs that are not as dangerous (LSD, shrooms, MDMA, etc), it all depends on your state of mind. How you feel going into it can make or break your experience, and a horrible enough bad trip can potentially put your mind into a state that it can't return from, but from various trip reports I've read at erowid (everyone, seriously, look up erowid.org before talking), there were massive mistakes that they have made. I've had E, and have had both good and bad experiences from it. Does my brain have holes in it? That's yet to be seen. :P tl;dr: be objective about it and do some research before blabbering on about what DARE told you |
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My body, for example, causes me a significant amount of distress. My life experiences cause a significant amount of distress. Both of these are a part of me, I can't escape them but I can certainly conceal them to an extent or dress them up. There are ways I can do this through my sheer force of will, or which my brain does automatically. My attraction to the furry aesthetic and association with my fursona are examples of this, they allow me to organize my perception of my body (for certain purposes) around a surrogate which takes away some of the discomfort I have. Alcohol and Marijuana have proven to be similarly beneficial, although I couldn't give you an exact explanation of how. If I were just poor or something then you would be right. Drugs are overwhelmingly associated with the poor, and most of them (those who aren't unprotected minorities condemned by the dominant belief systems of the states they live in) can improve their situation with limited effort. I really don't see an inherent problem with escapism though. There's only so much fighting a person can be expected to do before they start taking measures to lessen the pain of their circumstances rather than making futile efforts to change them. |
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Things like heroin are intrinsically more 'dangerous' because the LD50 / AD50 is very low, i.e. the difference between a recreational and fatal dosage is small. |
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@ap Oh, you know, I don't have any biased opinion on reason that makes people take drug as long as they don't get depreciable consequences from it. The post you quoted was an answer to kilroy's post according to the thread's matter and it made me think he took drug to escape reality.
As long as you have reasons that justifies perfectly the fact you consume it, I find it perfectly fine. I know it's not just the kind of thing I'd do to discover myself, and it's more a personnal opinion than something I'd debate on. |
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I don't mind marijuana as much as I used to when I was younger. I did it for a while but stopped. It does mess with your memory in the long run, that's mainly why I didn't continue using it. I don't care if others do it, just don't do it around me often if you're a complete jerk when you're high. My brother's friend was a complete dick when he got high at my house a week or so ago. He is crowned the biggest jerk while high by his friends >.> I agree, no chemical stuff, just earthly things. No shrooms though, I've seen a lot of friends get hurt while taking that crap. My opinion on acid; I hate it. I watched a good friend of mine go from being a straight A student to failing every class and almost not graduating because he was taking acid all the time. Now that high school is over, he's a couch hopper, going from house to house because his parents kicked him out. |
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Please don't be Storms, guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw
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@Kilroy Ah, nevermind. I don't especially like talking about something that isn't related to the thread since I have many things to say on your post but most of them just aren't related to the initial topic of the thread and I wouldn't violate rules.
@ichiliebekase Well I don't think marijuana will end up being massively authorized in the future. Even though you'll eventually face less problem with it than with tobacco, it's just another thing compared to tobacco and alcohool that have been known and legalized since centuries (correct me if I'm wrong) |
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I drink alcohol on special occasions. Alcohol, to me, is not a problem when you drink responsibly, and don't drink all the time.
Hard drugs such as (Heroine, Meth, Cocaine, etc.) I will never try because I would not be able to stop doing them, and my body would turn to a pile of trash. Im sure youve all seen what somebody looks like when they do heroine for years. Their face starts caving in, like its deflated. Weed, I smoke regularly. Its gay though how all the anti-drug commercials make weed look ridiculous. Like people trying to fly out of windows with a blanket as a cape, **** yeah right. When I smoke, I'm hungry/happy/sleepy. I'm relaxing and playing a video game, or watching a movie. I don't cause anybody harm. I'm not getting off this couch for a good bit. |
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By the way, shrooms have very low toxicity and surveys show that the great majority of people who have ingested them have ranked them within the most significant experiences in their lives. I don't know what you're talking about, but your (most likely exaggerated) anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless. And this is coming from a drug user that really does not enjoy mushrooms. Quote:
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Comparing dying from having some bad cocaine to dying from taking 8 tylenol is illogical. EDIT: Quote:
You're comparing bad drugs to bad drugs, I didn't say legal drugs are good and illegal drugs are bad. I said good drugs are good and bad drugs are bad. Tobacco and cigarettes are by no stretch of the imagination a 'good drug, legal or not... |
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Heh, salvia. Now there's a fun one to debate as to whether it should be legal or not. Quote:
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And yeah, comparing dying from having some "bad" cocaine (what the hell does this even mean? "Bad" cocaine really means "weak" cocaine that's cut with impurities, because that's the most economically feasible scenario; in which case, it's going to be less neurotoxic) to dying from tylenol is stupid. However, tylenol isn't the only legal drug, and it is certainly not stupid to compare dying from cocaine to dying from oxycodone or alcohol. Of course, you refuse to acknowledge this point that several people have made. |
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And yeah, salvia... I think it should be legal, but I don't really think any sane person should enjoy it. What a bizarre drug. Quote:
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My philosophy on doing drugs in the first place.
Experimentation is retarded, it only takes 1 time to become addicted, and it's not worth it to take the risk. Taking drugs for recreational purposes is also retarded, you don't need to be tripping to have a good time. More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway, so there's really no purpose in taking them in the first place. Alcohol is bad only if you become addicted or become too intoxicated. I don't really understand the purpose of drinking alcohol if it's just going to make you look stupid, sound stupid, and feel like shit. Cigarettes and marijuana should both be illegal. Cigarettes can kill you. Marijuana can lead you to killing others. Neither seem like they should be legal, especially cigarettes because there has never been a medical purpose or good cause for them. Sure tobacco chews your body up because IIRC, they put fiberglass in it, but at least you're ****ing up your own life instead of the little old lady crossing the street. This is probably the reason why cigarettes are legal too. The reason why I think cigarettes should be illegal and tobacco legal is because there's no second-hand tobacco deaths. So basically, there are no good outcomes from taking drugs for recreation, and I don't think 99% of people doing these drugs have a medical marijuana prescription. So in my opinion, stay off the drugs, stay off the booze, stay off the cigs and it'll be better off for everyone involved. Quote:
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k, nobody's allowed to have an opinion on anything anymore.
Have fun getting shitfaced and killing an innocent family of 7 on the freeway, because apparently giving legitimate reasons why I think drugs are bad is trolling now. I'm obviously not arguing against the medical reasons of some drugs, doing drugs for recreational purposes is wrong, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Putting other people's and you own lives at stake is extremely stupid. |
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What's wrong with suicide anyways? |
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How's this, tell me how doing recreational drugs is right.
I did establish what was going on in my argument, but ap thinks I'm trolling. I have to say everything in 1 sentence or less or I get trolled. EDIT MrGiggles post below: http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html /argument. Keep your stoned asses off the streets and I could care less if you kill yourself making poor decisions. |
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this post got really spergy really fast my b |
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And it's right because I like it and it doesn't hurt anyone except me. |
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Substance abuse, however, brings people together and tears people apart... it's nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds (maybe thousands?) of years. A few laws aren't going to stop such a tradition. I don't know much about the human body, but I'm not going to take the risk for a 'revolutionary experience' on a few substances that might take some years off my life. EDIT: I know people who safely enjoy such substances, and I can honestly say that it would without a doubt be fun to get high every day of my life, but I have personal goals and morals I've set since I was a toddler. |
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Plus the Jails are jam packed with people who got arrested for small amounts of marijuana, and they arent necessarily bad people who belong there. Legalize it andbam, problem solved. Bad people in jail sounds like a good idea to me.
PS: And your Taco Bell stocks will go through the roof. |
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In short, YES, marijuana can be the catalyst that can cause you to go out and cause a motor vehicle homicide. |
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Well, for me. I'm checking out online to see if that's an issue for other people, but I definitely retain most of my experiences high. |
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Second, you seem to think that the only 'recreational' purpose is 'having a good time.' Did you also totally gloss over this post that I made: Quote:
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Also, please cite an article that lists being under the influence of marijuana as the principle cause of someone killing someone else. http://news.google.com get searching ------ Quote:
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/menthol.asp "There's no fiberglass in cigarettes. Granted, RJR did try using a fiberglass shell on its flopped smokeless cigarettes in 1994, but that part of the contraption wasn't ingested by the smoker; it was more of a housing, if you will. Other than that, no fiberglass. " This is the reason we're getting angry at you in this thread. You are spouting beliefs that 5 seconds of google hunting disprove and then you use those beliefs as a fulcrum to tell us that drugs are wrong. ------ Quote:
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You said "More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway". I can remember the events that happen when I'm stoned. And I can remember those events way down the road also. I have hundreds of good memories when I was smoking weed. So, that's why I think what you said is silly. Quote:
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@ aperson alcohol response
I said alcohol is only bad if you get addicted (alcoholism) or become too intoxicated. I don't see how having a beer with your meal is becoming an alcoholic or getting drunk. @ aperson tobacco argument I was referring to chewing tobacco, not cigarettes here, sorry if this was confusing. |
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Edit: There is also no fiberglass in chewing tobacco either "There is a widespread urban myth that fiberglass is added which is incorrect, resulting in higher and faster nicotine absorption, but at least in the case of snus, the appearance of glass-like particles may be due to the formation of salt crystals."[1] |
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Thanks for trying to shoot my argument down like usual, appreciate it. @ap: Sorry too busy defending myself from people like ^ to finish my train of thought. You're mostly correct on everything else. |
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Rushy, you are extremely irritating and your posts show a clear bias and lack of deeper thinking regarding this subject. If anyone is trolling, it's you.
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You don't need TV to have a good time. You don't need bars to have a good time. You don't need books to have a good time. This is an incredibly bad argument because no recreational activity on its own is necessary to have fun - yet you single out all drugs as the one that is negative for no factual reason - instead, you're spouting off stigmatic crap with no basis. Also, you're confusing short term memory with long term memory. It is true that marijuana can affect long term memory (although, as I've pointed out, this is only caused by excessive smoking within a certain context, which most smokers do not do), but it certainly does not cause anterograde amnesia, which ironically, zolpidem (or ambien), a legal prescription drug, does. So do benzodiazepines, legal prescription anxiolytic drugs. Quote:
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Also, this is the 3rd time I've "targeted" you because you've made 3 posts, what the hell. If you post, expect other posters in this thread to respond to you. If you haven't noticed, I've also responded to aperson, ich-whatever, jenova sephiroth... aka, the people who have posted in this thread. If you don't want your opinions dissected, get the hell off of a board called "critical thinking." I'm not sure if you possess the critical thinking faculties to understand what "critical thinking" entails. |
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rushy: If you're trolling, stop. If you're not trolling, take what's being said to you a bit more seriously.
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This is my final reiteration of my sole argument that everyone keeps trying to redirect to what I said before.
Ignore everything I said before.. my main argument is that when you get high or drunk, don't go out and drive your car around town. My only concern is people getting killed by drunk/drugged drivers. If you want to do drugs for recreation, fine. If you want to do drugs for other purposes, fine. I used to think that people cared about their own lives, but I don't anymore, go ahead and mess yourself up. It just seems utterly unfair to the huge amount of people killed yearly by drunk/drugged drivers, if you think that innocent people deserve to die and you argue against this point, I feel sorry for you, I don't care what forum this is, have some respect for a human life. With that, I'm gonna go ahead and get out of this topic (Ding dong the troll is dead the wicked troll is dead!) and hope that you guys realize all I'm trying to do is advocate the all too high percentage of deaths that come from drunk/drugged driving. PS I was never trolling |
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Why am I allowed to drive after I eat a banana? All that potassium might get me pretty drugged up. What about after I take some Tylenol? What about after I take some Tylenol with Codeine for my recent shoulder injury? What about after I smoke a bowl of weed? |
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I'm totally down with a message of "don't drive under the influence", I know a lot of people feel they drive safely under some drugs but I'd rather people just don't take the chance.
but you sound like you're backpedaling from all the stuff you said earlier about illegal drugs killing people and legal drugs being good, etc. I think you put too much stock in what the government says is legal or illegal. |
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I do get off that easy. Quote:
What I meant by legal drugs was like aspirin and ibuprofen, not cigarettes, alcohol and tobacco like people thought. |
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What I'm trying to get at here which you seem to be too dense to comprehend is that there is little to no correlation between "legality of a drug" and "the increase in danger if you were to drive under the influence in this drug" which is still what you are arguing. Hell, salvia is legal and have you ever seen someone drive on salvia? Quote:
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I started out by saying
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What chemicals do we ingest that don't alter our perception? How many times do I have to repeat this point in different ways before you quit saying I'm trolling or you try to discard it as irrelevant before you actually get the meaning of what I'm saying? |
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Don't believe I ever said alter..
I'd have an easier time understanding your examples if they weren't all small scale eating an apple or a banana. Drugs have a serious effect on your perception and it's not a positive effect, as you can see in the salvia video you posted. Drugs trigger a stronger response and a more negative response. Eating an apple is legal because it alters your perception positively, drugs are illegal because they alter your perception negatively. EDIT: Quote:
EDIT2: k, done for real this time, getting tired of fruit analogies,et al |
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ya
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You keep defining everything in terms of something else yet somehow you magically never get back to a place with a concrete example or definition. |
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Don't worry, he's going to make a tautology between "negative" and "illegal drugs"
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I'm gonna paraphrase a quote here but I think it gets a pretty good point across:
"Why the hell is pleasure a negative side effect?" |
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Well, I do agree to an extent that it's a bad idea to drive on quite a few substances (legal ones included; alcohol, opiates, etc...) but I don't think that should be the basis of criminalization. I mean, it's becoming quite invasive at the point when we're hindering peoples' rights to alter their consciousness on the basis of what they might do when there isn't much empirical evidence to support that claim.
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