Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums

Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/index.php)
-   Critical Thinking (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/forumdisplay.php?f=33)
-   -   Drugs (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=117071)

ffraxis 01-20-2011 01:19 PM

Drugs
 
Whats your opinion on drugs? All of us have done drugs at least once in our life (even if we didn't know that said substance is considered a drug) legal or illegal.

Do you support specific drugs? Why do you support these drugs? What are the pros/cons to this drug? Do you support drug groups, anti-drug groups? Do you support the business behind it or no?

Please, do tell.

Also in trying to support your point of view please pull some actual facts.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 01:28 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Since illegal drugs kill people, I can't help but saying illegal drugs are bad.

PS No way you're going to have a very stimulating conversation on legal drugs, and there's no reason to argue against them since the worst thing that can happen while taking them is some stupid side effect.

Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life.

so in summary: Good drugs good, bad drugs bad.

badman7772 01-20-2011 01:31 PM

Re: Drugs
 
^
Enough said. There's no such thing as an opinion on drugs.

VarleyisDance 01-20-2011 01:35 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Marijuana should be legal just the same as alcohol and cigarettes, the effects arent near as harmful as other illegal drugs

XXXsmittyXXX 01-20-2011 01:37 PM

Re: Drugs
 
How is there no such thing as an opinion on drugs? What if you happen to LIKE drugs, good or bad,? Pretty sure liking them is an opinion.

I support earthly drugs to a very high extent. 8)
If it grows on the ground, or in the ground, i say go for it. Definitely weed. All that man made garbage is horrible for you.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 01:41 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Marijuana is a legal drug in some states and countries. It would probably help the cause if it weren't a bunch of stoners shouting LEGALIZE MARIJUANA MANNN! Which probably leads the people whose decision it is to make it legal kind of weary that if it's legalized, all that will happen is there will be more people driving stoned and killing innocent people. But keep in mind, alcohol WAS illegal before, and has since been legalized (obviously)

I've never tried marijuana, although I'm sure it's not too harmful to your health. It's probably the best option out of the non-chem drugs. Stay away from the shrooms and chem and you'll be fine.

Also, don't chug cough syrup.

EDIT: Yeah, what smitty said. I still think shrooms are iffy tho.

VarleyisDance 01-20-2011 01:43 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXsmittyXXX (Post 3400586)
If it grows on the ground, or in the ground, i say go for it.


i like that :)

who_cares973 01-20-2011 02:06 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400578)
Since illegal drugs kill people, I can't help but saying illegal drugs are bad.

PS No way you're going to have a very stimulating conversation on legal drugs, and there's no reason to argue against them since the worst thing that can happen while taking them is some stupid side effect.

Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life.

so in summary: Good drugs good, bad drugs bad.

I can't tell if you're being serious with that post or not. Death is a very serious side effect like with any drug legal or not that's what overdosing does.
Quote:

Originally Posted by badman7772 (Post 3400581)
^
Enough said. There's no such thing as an opinion on drugs.

I really hope you're kidding

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 02:38 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I've come to the conclusion recently that I like Marijuana quite a bit, and it's legal in my state with a prescription. Alcohol to an extent but not so much, plus it's a contraindication to HRT; it could kill me, technically, as could cigarettes. Kind of funny in that context that illegal drugs are healthier for me than the legal ones. I'd like to try MDMA at some future date, but I wouldn't dare make a habit of it. Addiction to a neurotoxic substance doesn't seem like my cup of tea, but now that I know the kinds of experiences drugs can give to me I'm more interested in them to say the least.

I would say that if a person is cautious and intelligent, they can explore most drugs to an extent. Marijuana doesn't seem to be bad at all. Heroin can be pretty bad, cocaine can be pretty bad, and meth is something that nobody should touch ever, but as for most other stuff? Pot is fine, worst consequence of shrooms is a fever, LSD if you can actually find it and have a good environment to take it in is fine, MDMA if you don't overdo it is fine (although terrible if you do). Biggest problem with drugs isn't the drugs themselves but impurities, but again, that's just a matter of caution.

I'm still very much a libertarian at heart, or perhaps an anarchist of some stripe; certainly not the conventional stripe though. I have too much respect for capitalism but not enough to qualify for the anarcho-capitalist side of things anymore, I don't think. Even stupid people have their rights, whatever the hell a "right" is, and I would say that extends to drug use. Keeping drugs illegal drives their prices up by creating artificial scarcity and also ensures that the people who profit from them are those with the means to evade, bribe, and in the very visible cases of Central and South America, kill law enforcement officials in order to traffic their product.

Don't get me wrong, I know people who have screwed up their lives in a serious way with drug use. But in the end, you'll never stop people from making bad decisions, and in this particular case trying to leads to greater death and suffering. It's counter-intuitive but true.

tl;dr drugs themselves are largely fine, those that traffic in them aren't, and as a corollary of that government regulations are far from fine because they're what drive drugs underground into the black market and turn a popular product into a source of revenue for terrorists, gangs, and criminals.

ScylaX 01-20-2011 02:45 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Lol what the ****.
Good drugs = good / Bad drugs = Bad ? Just were did you brought that from ? That's some frightening conclusion right there.

If cigarette was innoxious, it wouldn't kill that much people every year. Same thing for alcohol. Just compare marijuana (illegal) to tabacco (legal) with a serious method and you'll realize the first one is almost inoffensive compared to the second one.

@Kilroy_x Well, repression obligatory has its side effects and consequences that are basically symetrics from its nature and "pressure" over the population. It's kinda hard to find a fair media considering its consequences, even though you can judge by yourself, looking at its consequences, if that repression is good or bad for the nation. (compare the Prohibition from our today's laws over drugs if you want)

kommisar 01-20-2011 02:53 PM

Re: Drugs
 
anything in excessive amount is dumb as fuc, but some more harmful than others. really hard to base an opinion on that since some people will relate to overdosing or just taking something once.

I personally hate recreational use of drugs since I've seen its psychological effect on some people close to me. It's a pretty artificial way of enjoying yourself (I even hate myself for drinking at times). They shouldn't be illegal, since it's causing more problems than it's preventing. They are, however, mostly associated with people insecure/unhappy about their own lives. It's a coward's way out of reality.


Let's all get drunk and go on skype

ScylaX 01-20-2011 02:57 PM

Re: Drugs
 
@Kommi I have a strong opinion about drugs and I hate it too, but I wanted to ask you a question : Do you think you'd still consider drugs as an "artificial way of enjoying yourself" if it hadn't any bad consequence on the human being ?

zadkiel91 01-20-2011 03:11 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXsmittyXXX (Post 3400586)
How is there no such thing as an opinion on drugs? What if you happen to LIKE drugs, good or bad,? Pretty sure liking them is an opinion.

I support earthly drugs to a very high extent. 8)
If it grows on the ground, or in the ground, i say go for it. Definitely weed. All that man made garbage is horrible for you.

I agree with this. Weed is the only illegal drug that you can try without being addicted, and it was proven that it doesn't burn your neurons. That is BS. Try cocaine, or heroin or other man made garbage like smitty said and your life will go down the drain.

ScylaX 01-20-2011 03:12 PM

Re: Drugs
 
It's kinda out of subject, but I don't see the point of living if it's about escaping from your perceptions that allows you to feel the world, just concentrate on how to be positive and the time will help you. Unless there is actually no way from escaping to your conditions.

aperson 01-20-2011 03:18 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400578)
Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life.

The difference between a medicine and a poison is dosage. Also, cocaine is used medicinally to numb the mouth when needed for surgery. That is why it is schedule II in the United States and not schedule I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
I've never tried marijuana, although I'm sure it's not too harmful to your health. It's probably the best option out of the non-chem drugs. Stay away from the shrooms and chem and you'll be fine.

What on Earth does 'non-chem' drugs mean? Everything in this world that is composed of atoms is a chemical. Everything you eat is a chemical. Vitamin C? Calcium? Sodium? You're a machine made of a bunch of chemicals so let's not act like putting a chemical in you is a bad idea for the sake of it being a chemical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3400643)
It's kinda out of subject, but I don't see the point of living if it's about escaping from your perceptions that allows you to feel the world, just concentrate on how to be positive and the time will help you. Unless there is actually no way from escaping to your conditions.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the only reason people take drugs is to "artificially enjoy themselves." I've taken a wide variety of drugs and my primary purpose in doing them was to understand myself better. I find that you learn more about what you are actually composed of, both physically and mentally, by jarring the flow of things and seeing how your body copes with it. There are many others who share the same view, try googling the term 'Entheogen.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadkiel91 (Post 3400642)
I agree with this. Weed is the only illegal drug that you can try without being addicted, and it was proven that it doesn't burn your neurons. That is BS. Try cocaine, or heroin or other man made garbage like smitty said and your life will go down the drain.

Some people can go shopping without getting addicted; some people are addicted to shopping and are in financial ruin. Some people smoke weed every once in awhile and go about their lives normally; some people spend all their time smoking weed and lose any motivation or direction in life. Some people try heroin once and their lives go into a downard spiral; some people try heroin a few times and decide it isn't for them.

Don't make blanket statements unless you know exactly what your blanket is covering.

Reincarnate 01-20-2011 03:23 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Use your best judgment

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 03:24 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400578)
Since illegal drugs kill people, I can't help but saying illegal drugs are bad.

PS No way you're going to have a very stimulating conversation on legal drugs, and there's no reason to argue against them since the worst thing that can happen while taking them is some stupid side effect.

Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life.

so in summary: Good drugs good, bad drugs bad.

Are you serious? Are you serious?

While I'm no longer naive enough to support a fully libertarian blanket legalization of drugs, I'm certainly not naive enough to spout what you just said.

Quote:

Since illegal drugs kill people, I can't help but saying illegal drugs are bad.
Yeah because nothing legal has the potential to kill you if used irresponsibly. It's not like people regularly overdose on alcohol or anything (yeah, when you're vomiting your guts out over a toilet, this is an overdose). By the way, it's pretty factually wrong to say that the worst alcohol can do is a few "stupid side effects." Pretty sure alcohol causes a far larger amount of deaths than marijuana. So does oxycodone, hydrocodone, benzodiazepines (which, incidentally are one of the most commonly used suicide medications), skeletal muscle relaxers, and a variety of other legal medications. There are many very dangerous prescription medications out there that are often more addictive than a lot of street drugs. Oxycodone is more addictive than non-freebase cocaine, physically. So is morphine. Get your facts straight.

Quote:

Trying cocaine once can kill you, taking an aspirin can save your life.
This is so over the top it disgusts me. What are you, straight out of D.A.R.E.? The great majority of people who try cocaine do not die after cocaine use, especially the first time. Britain consumes 50 tons of cocaine each year, and I doubt you see 1,000,000 + Brits dying each year from first time cocaine use.

Quote:

PS No way you're going to have a very stimulating conversation on legal drugs
how presumptuous, but it turns out not everyone has the same high school opinion as you on drugs. In fact, some people actually know anything.

Reincarnate 01-20-2011 03:27 PM

Re: Drugs
 
It all comes down to how responsible you are when using a particular substance. However, I think sometimes it's hard to say something like "responsible heroin user" and have it be accurate in most cases. Some substances are simply harder on your system than others and screw with things in various ways. Your best bet is to simply educate yourself and understand the risks before you go do something incredibly stupid.

kommisar 01-20-2011 03:31 PM

Re: Drugs
 
if you guys are going to base effects on statistics, this thread is done for lmao.


% of people who die from first use of drug
% of people who die from overdose
% of people who develop mental illness from drugs
% of people who use drugs regularly with no physical side effects

etc.


there isn't a "responsible" way to take drugs, but there are obvious dumbshits who go over the top

JenovaSephiroth 01-20-2011 03:32 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I'm really not liking the level of uninformed opinion going on in this thread.

Rather than drawing the line between what is illegal and legal, you have to more think about the potential to harm yourself in the process. Opiates (cocaine, heroin, oxy, etc) happens to provide a massive rush. Massive is a severe understatement here, though, as the effects would actually cause so much happiness that you would literally never experience that same level of happiness again, even on subsequent attempts, which is the big danger here. Chasing the dragon is what sends people on the dark road of opiate addiction, and it is incredibly difficult to turn back, both physically and mentally. My opinion on it is that you would need an insane amount of self control, which most people do not have, so if you get sucked in, I won't judge you, but don't come crying to me. Have I tried opiates? No. Would I ever want to? No, because I am very sure that I wouldn't have what it takes to make it back.

As for drugs that are not as dangerous (LSD, shrooms, MDMA, etc), it all depends on your state of mind. How you feel going into it can make or break your experience, and a horrible enough bad trip can potentially put your mind into a state that it can't return from, but from various trip reports I've read at erowid (everyone, seriously, look up erowid.org before talking), there were massive mistakes that they have made. I've had E, and have had both good and bad experiences from it. Does my brain have holes in it? That's yet to be seen. :P

tl;dr: be objective about it and do some research before blabbering on about what DARE told you

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 03:33 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3400643)
It's kinda out of subject, but I don't see the point of living if it's about escaping from your perceptions that allows you to feel the world, just concentrate on how to be positive and the time will help you. Unless there is actually no way from escaping to your conditions.

My perceptions don't necessarily allow me to feel the world, and being aware of the world and of my problems doesn't necessarily mean being able to navigate the world or solve my problems. There are all kinds of problems I can see but not solve. There are all kinds of pains which blur my perception of reality. Admittedly drugs themselves obfuscate perception in their own capacity, but it's a trade-off, and it isn't always bad.

My body, for example, causes me a significant amount of distress. My life experiences cause a significant amount of distress. Both of these are a part of me, I can't escape them but I can certainly conceal them to an extent or dress them up. There are ways I can do this through my sheer force of will, or which my brain does automatically. My attraction to the furry aesthetic and association with my fursona are examples of this, they allow me to organize my perception of my body (for certain purposes) around a surrogate which takes away some of the discomfort I have. Alcohol and Marijuana have proven to be similarly beneficial, although I couldn't give you an exact explanation of how.

If I were just poor or something then you would be right. Drugs are overwhelmingly associated with the poor, and most of them (those who aren't unprotected minorities condemned by the dominant belief systems of the states they live in) can improve their situation with limited effort. I really don't see an inherent problem with escapism though. There's only so much fighting a person can be expected to do before they start taking measures to lessen the pain of their circumstances rather than making futile efforts to change them.

aperson 01-20-2011 03:35 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kommisar (Post 3400656)
if you guys are going to base effects on statistics, this thread is done for lmao.


% of people who die from first use of drug
% of people who die from overdose
% of people who develop mental illness from drugs
% of people who use drugs regularly with no physical side effects

etc.


there isn't a "responsible" way to take drugs, but there are obvious dumbshits who go over the top

There is an easy way to statistically rigorize the danger of a drug: The LD50 / AD50 of a given drug. I.e. the ratio of the dosage that kills 50% of subjects to the dosage that is tangibly 'active' for a drug. This is documented in medical literature for most drugs.

Things like heroin are intrinsically more 'dangerous' because the LD50 / AD50 is very low, i.e. the difference between a recreational and fatal dosage is small.

ScylaX 01-20-2011 03:37 PM

Re: Drugs
 
@ap Oh, you know, I don't have any biased opinion on reason that makes people take drug as long as they don't get depreciable consequences from it. The post you quoted was an answer to kilroy's post according to the thread's matter and it made me think he took drug to escape reality.

As long as you have reasons that justifies perfectly the fact you consume it, I find it perfectly fine. I know it's not just the kind of thing I'd do to discover myself, and it's more a personnal opinion than something I'd debate on.

aperson 01-20-2011 03:38 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXsmittyXXX (Post 3400586)
If it grows on the ground, or in the ground, i say go for it. Definitely weed. All that man made garbage is horrible for you.


ichliebekase 01-20-2011 03:38 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400594)
It would probably help the cause if it weren't a bunch of stoners shouting LEGALIZE MARIJUANA MANNN!

Good point. Of course the government doesn't want to let all of those people win with their pleas and protests. But pretty soon the stoners saying to legalize it are going to calm down because slowly more and more states are legalizing it. Then the government won't feel as reluctant to legalize it and BOOM legalized marijuana.

I don't mind marijuana as much as I used to when I was younger. I did it for a while but stopped. It does mess with your memory in the long run, that's mainly why I didn't continue using it. I don't care if others do it, just don't do it around me often if you're a complete jerk when you're high. My brother's friend was a complete dick when he got high at my house a week or so ago. He is crowned the biggest jerk while high by his friends >.>

I agree, no chemical stuff, just earthly things. No shrooms though, I've seen a lot of friends get hurt while taking that crap.

My opinion on acid; I hate it. I watched a good friend of mine go from being a straight A student to failing every class and almost not graduating because he was taking acid all the time. Now that high school is over, he's a couch hopper, going from house to house because his parents kicked him out.

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 03:39 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3400661)
@ap Oh, you know, I don't have any biased opinion on reason that makes people take drug as long as they don't get depreciable consequences from it. The post you quoted was an answer to kilroy's post according to the thread's matter and it made me think she took drug to escape reality.

As long as you have reasons that justifies perfectly the fact you consume it, I find it perfectly fine. I know it's not just the kind of thing I'd do to discover myself, and it's more a personnal opinion than something I'd debate on.

edit

Reincarnate 01-20-2011 03:41 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ichliebekase (Post 3400663)
I agree, no chemical stuff, just earthly things. No shrooms though, I've seen a lot of friends get hurt while taking that crap.

when i read stuff like this i can feel my heartbeat pulsing in my eyelid

Reincarnate 01-20-2011 03:43 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Please don't be Storms, guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw

ScylaX 01-20-2011 03:57 PM

Re: Drugs
 
@Kilroy Ah, nevermind. I don't especially like talking about something that isn't related to the thread since I have many things to say on your post but most of them just aren't related to the initial topic of the thread and I wouldn't violate rules.

@ichiliebekase Well I don't think marijuana will end up being massively authorized in the future. Even though you'll eventually face less problem with it than with tobacco, it's just another thing compared to tobacco and alcohool that have been known and legalized since centuries (correct me if I'm wrong)

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 04:05 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3400680)
@Kilroy Ah, nevermind. I don't especially like talking about something that isn't related to the thread since I have many things to say on your post but most of them just aren't related to the initial topic of the thread and I wouldn't violate rules.

You accuse me of running away from something and then run away from something when I admit to it. What a fascinating asymmetry. You can always PM me, you know. And I'm sure you could find some way to tie it to the initial discussion anyways, so I can only assume you have other motives at heart.

ChrisReams 01-20-2011 04:08 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I drink alcohol on special occasions. Alcohol, to me, is not a problem when you drink responsibly, and don't drink all the time.

Hard drugs such as (Heroine, Meth, Cocaine, etc.) I will never try because I would not be able to stop doing them, and my body would turn to a pile of trash. Im sure youve all seen what somebody looks like when they do heroine for years. Their face starts caving in, like its deflated.

Weed, I smoke regularly. Its gay though how all the anti-drug commercials make weed look ridiculous. Like people trying to fly out of windows with a blanket as a cape, **** yeah right. When I smoke, I'm hungry/happy/sleepy. I'm relaxing and playing a video game, or watching a movie. I don't cause anybody harm. I'm not getting off this couch for a good bit.

VarleyisDance 01-20-2011 04:38 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReams (Post 3400691)
I drink alcohol on special occasions. Alcohol, to me, is not a problem when you drink responsibly, and don't drink all the time.

Hard drugs such as (Heroine, Meth, Cocaine, etc.) I will never try because I would not be able to stop doing them, and my body would turn to a pile of trash. Im sure youve all seen what somebody looks like when they do heroine for years. Their face starts caving in, like its deflated.

Weed, I smoke regularly. Its gay though how all the anti-drug commercials make weed look ridiculous. Like people trying to fly out of windows with a blanket as a cape, **** yeah right. When I smoke, I'm hungry/happy/sleepy. I'm relaxing and playing a video game, or watching a movie. I don't cause anybody harm. I'm not getting off this couch for a good bit.

amen

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 04:57 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3400652)
It all comes down to how responsible you are when using a particular substance. However, I think sometimes it's hard to say something like "responsible heroin user" and have it be accurate in most cases. Some substances are simply harder on your system than others and screw with things in various ways. Your best bet is to simply educate yourself and understand the risks before you go do something incredibly stupid.

I agree, which is why I don't want some substances legalized. Drugs that build tolerance extremely quickly, have bad withdrawal, and a low LD50 (this combination is rather important; rapid tolerance doesn't mean much if the LD50 is unrealistically high; you can keep taking more LSD to achieve the same high but you're not going to kill yourself unless you're like that idiot who took 333mg, which is 333,000 times the average dose) should be illegal. And while I don't think cocaine is that physically addictive (don't get me wrong, tolerance builds and there is some withdrawal), I do think it should be illegal because of the LD50, although I think it's ridiculous that responsible users are stigmatized for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenovasephiroth
Opiates (cocaine, heroin, oxy, etc) happens to provide a massive rush

Cocaine isn't an opiate, it's a CNS stimulant that affects the 5-HT3 and 5-HT2 receptors; as far as I know, it doesn't affect any of the mu receptors associated with opioid drugs (by the way, the term you're probably looking for is opioid, not opiate; opioids are any drugs that affect the opioid receptors, and opiates are drugs that derive from opium).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenovasephiroth
How you feel going into it can make or break your experience, and a horrible enough bad trip can potentially put your mind into a state that it can't return from

I'm not saying this can't happen, but as a matter of principle it kind of annoys me that people make this argument. The great majority of people who have bad trips do not "go crazy" or "stay there." This is really a huge exaggeration that has been gradually disseminated from the 60s LSD days. Again, I'm not saying it never happens, but it is a very rare occurrence, and when it does happen, it's largely psychosomatic; these are chemicals with exact (albeit complicated) processes, and they don't remain in your body forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichliebekase (Post 3400663)
Good point. Of course the government doesn't want to let all of those people win with their pleas and protests. But pretty soon the stoners saying to legalize it are going to calm down because slowly more and more states are legalizing it. Then the government won't feel as reluctant to legalize it and BOOM legalized marijuana.

I highly doubt some protesters are the cause of the government's unreasonable stance on marijuana. There are more realistic and complicated factors behind this; years of stigmatization catalyzed by William Hearst's smear campaign against hemp and uneducated people, corporate lean, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichliebekase
I don't mind marijuana as much as I used to when I was younger. I did it for a while but stopped. It does mess with your memory in the long run, that's mainly why I didn't continue using it. I don't care if others do it, just don't do it around me often if you're a complete jerk when you're high. My brother's friend was a complete dick when he got high at my house a week or so ago. He is crowned the biggest jerk while high by his friends >.>

Long term memory damage is more prominent if the drug is smoked excessively, and during neural development (primarily adolescence). Neither of which most people who smoke marijuana do. Many people are very "casual" smokers and I think you'd find that to hold true if it was legalized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichliebekase
I agree, no chemical stuff, just earthly things. No shrooms though, I've seen a lot of friends get hurt while taking that crap.

This "natural vs. synthetic" dichotomy is false and very stupid (sorry, no offense). Both natural and synthetic chemicals are still chemicals; and there are many natural chems that are very neurotoxic. Atropine, the main alkaloids in the datura, brugsmania, and belladonna plants, cause extremely intense delusions and hugely toxic side effects in those who use it, and due to the variability in alkaloid content per plant, kill many people. Most natural entheogens have evolved the psychoactive chemicals they contain as defense mechanisms (think mescaline cacti, which have mescaline alkaloids near the outer layer of flesh to deter animals from consuming them), while synthetic chemicals are specifically designed to be taken as recreational drugs. Ironically, people who adhere to this naturalistic fallacy don't realize that most natural drugs were designed to prevent people from eating them, and most synthetic drugs were designed to be consumed. That isn't to say that some synthetic drugs aren't harmful, because many certainly are, but many natural drugs are also harmful.

By the way, shrooms have very low toxicity and surveys show that the great majority of people who have ingested them have ranked them within the most significant experiences in their lives. I don't know what you're talking about, but your (most likely exaggerated) anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless. And this is coming from a drug user that really does not enjoy mushrooms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichliebekase
My opinion on acid; I hate it. I watched a good friend of mine go from being a straight A student to failing every class and almost not graduating because he was taking acid all the time. Now that high school is over, he's a couch hopper, going from house to house because his parents kicked him out.

Your opinion is, again, predicated on nothing but a single and somewhat irrelevant anecdote. I highly doubt acid was the primary contributing factor to your friend's shit life; he probably had a number of emergent factors cause this. If you are unstable and prone to bad behavior, irresponsible use of psychedelics is going to most likely exacerbate those traits, but that in no way means acid was the cause of your friend's downfall. Stop incorrectly conflating causes. I doubt the legitimacy of this anecdote, as well, as it demonstrates a pretty poor understanding of the pharmacology of LSD. You can't take acid "all the time," because it builds tolerance rapidly; it is actually unrealistic to take it more than once every 3-5 days and get effects. And, LSD is not physically addictive and if your friend did become addicted to it, it's no more unreasonable to assume he could have developed an eating disorder or computer addiction; any activity can be psychologically addictive. However, psychology is variable and we don't ban or judge substances based on that because it's an arbitrary decision calculus. Physical addiction, on the other hand, is concrete and reasonable way to determine the legal status of drugs, in combination with other factors.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 05:03 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who_cares973 (Post 3400616)
I can't tell if you're being serious with that post or not. Death is a very serious side effect like with any drug legal or not that's what overdosing does.

Overdosing on water can kill you. I'm just saying that taking a single pill of a legal drug vs. taking a single pill of an illegal drug. If we're on the topic of overdosing, you're dead either way. I'd go ahead and say any legal drug that might result in death is a. sufficiently informed, b. had law suits against it.

Comparing dying from having some bad cocaine to dying from taking 8 tylenol is illogical.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX (Post 3400625)
Lol what the ****.
Good drugs = good / Bad drugs = Bad ? Just were did you brought that from ? That's some frightening conclusion right there.

If cigarette was innoxious, it wouldn't kill that much people every year. Same thing for alcohol. Just compare marijuana (illegal) to tabacco (legal) with a serious method and you'll realize the first one is almost inoffensive compared to the second one.

Um, what?

You're comparing bad drugs to bad drugs, I didn't say legal drugs are good and illegal drugs are bad. I said good drugs are good and bad drugs are bad. Tobacco and cigarettes are by no stretch of the imagination a 'good drug, legal or not...

JenovaSephiroth 01-20-2011 05:08 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yieldsign (Post 3400725)
I'm not saying this can't happen, but as a matter of principle it kind of annoys me that people make this argument. The great majority of people who have bad trips do not "go crazy" or "stay there." This is really a huge exaggeration that has been gradually disseminated from the 60s LSD days. Again, I'm not saying it never happens, but it is a very rare occurrence, and when it does happen, it's largely psychosomatic; these are chemicals with exact (albeit complicated) processes, and they don't remain in your body forever.

I'm not implying that anything physically stays in your system, and I agree with what you're saying. What I'm pointing out is that bad trips can be traumatic, and as such, it can be difficult to let go for some. It's just one of the risks that one takes when tripping, through the likelihood of such a situation is fairly low.

aperson 01-20-2011 05:11 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yieldsign (Post 3400725)
Cocaine isn't an opiate, it's a CNS stimulant that affects the 5-HT3 and 5-HT2 receptors; as far as I know, it doesn't affect any of the mu receptors associated with opioid drugs (by the way, the term you're probably looking for is opioid, not opiate; opioids are any drugs that affect the opioid receptors, and opiates are drugs that derive from opium).

Probably overly pedantic, but opiates would be the best bet here. Pretty much anything down the fentanyl chains and most other μ-opioids that we use medicinally and recreationally today can be derived from opium. If you use the blanket term opioid though, you're including κ-opioids like salvia which are about as far away from something like oxycontin as you can get.

Heh, salvia. Now there's a fun one to debate as to whether it should be legal or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Yieldsign (Post 3400725)
I'm not saying this can't happen, but as a matter of principle it kind of annoys me that people make this argument. The great majority of people who have bad trips do not "go crazy" or "stay there." This is really a huge exaggeration that has been gradually disseminated from the 60s LSD days. Again, I'm not saying it never happens, but it is a very rare occurrence, and when it does happen, it's largely psychosomatic; these are chemicals with exact (albeit complicated) processes, and they don't remain in your body forever.

I've done LSD from the 50 μg up to 1mg range and I'm going to have to disagree here. While LSD leaves your system in about 2 hours it obviously catalyzes something that lasts much longer. Anecdotally, I feel like acid puts my brain into a state of hyper-plasticity and I have the ability, for better or worse, to embed several years worth of repetitions of learning into my head over the course of 24hrs.

XXXsmittyXXX 01-20-2011 05:15 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson (Post 3400662)

Correct kind sir 8-)

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 05:15 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JenovaSephiroth (Post 3400734)
I'm not implying that anything physically stays in your system, and I agree with what you're saying. What I'm pointing out is that bad trips can be traumatic, and as such, it can be difficult to let go for some. It's just one of the risks that one takes when tripping, through the likelihood of such a situation is fairly low.

Alright, reasonable enough. I just don't want to provide more fuel for the ridiculous anti drug peeps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400729)
Overdosing on water can kill you. I'm just saying that taking a single pill of a legal drug vs. taking a single pill of an illegal drug. If we're on the topic of overdosing, you're dead either way. I'd go ahead and say any legal drug that might result in death is a. sufficiently informed, b. had law suits against it.

Comparing dying from having some bad cocaine to dying from taking 8 tylenol is illogical.

EDIT:



Um, what?

You're comparing bad drugs to bad drugs, I didn't say legal drugs are good and illegal drugs are bad. I said good drugs are good and bad drugs are bad. Tobacco and cigarettes are by no stretch of the imagination a 'good drug, legal or not...

Actually, as I remember it you said "the only bad thing that will happen from taking legal drugs are some stupid side effects." If that's not what you meant, fine, but articulate yourself more clearly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
If we're on the topic of overdosing, you're dead either way. I'd go ahead and say any legal drug that might result in death is a. sufficiently informed, b. had law suits against it.

Comparing dying from having some bad cocaine to dying from taking 8 tylenol is illogical.

I'd go ahead and say that if illegal drugs were legalized, then death as a result would be a. sufficiently informed, b. have law suits against it. Lmfao nice argument.

And yeah, comparing dying from having some "bad" cocaine (what the hell does this even mean? "Bad" cocaine really means "weak" cocaine that's cut with impurities, because that's the most economically feasible scenario; in which case, it's going to be less neurotoxic) to dying from tylenol is stupid. However, tylenol isn't the only legal drug, and it is certainly not stupid to compare dying from cocaine to dying from oxycodone or alcohol. Of course, you refuse to acknowledge this point that several people have made.

aperson 01-20-2011 05:18 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XXXsmittyXXX (Post 3400738)
Correct kind sir 8-)

That is Amanita Phalloides, also known as the Death Cap mushroom. Eating that is a guaranteed way to liver failure and a painful death. Your argument that natural things are okay and chemical things are not is absolutely ludicrous and me and Yieldsign have both posted why in this thread.

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 05:19 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson (Post 3400735)
Probably overly pedantic, but opiates would be the best bet here. Pretty much anything down the fentanyl chains and most other μ-opioids that we use medicinally and recreationally today can be derived from opium. If you use the blanket term opioid though, you're including κ-opioids like salvia which are about as far away from something like oxycontin as you can get.

Heh, salvia. Now there's a fun one to debate as to whether it should be legal or not.

Yeah, good point, I really wanted to use the term opioid so we could include drugs like Kratom, which is certainly not an opiate but mirrors the effects of one very closely. It's also disgusting and I regret ever doing it, haha.

And yeah, salvia... I think it should be legal, but I don't really think any sane person should enjoy it. What a bizarre drug.


Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson
I've done LSD from the 50 μg up to 1mg range and I'm going to have to disagree here. While LSD leaves your system in about 2 hours it obviously catalyzes something that lasts much longer. Anecdotally, I feel like acid puts my brain into a state of hyper-plasticity and I have the ability, for better or worse, to embed several years worth of repetitions of learning into my head over the course of 24hrs.

I suppose what I meant to point out was not that the drug is completely expelled from your system in a short amount of time (although the half life is about 2 hours iirc, of course there is going to be residual physical and mental stimulation, among other effects), but rather that taking it every day is simply unrealistic, because your body does build rapid tolerance to it - that's a pharmacological fact. Most people simply don't drop acid every day, because the amount you'd have to take to keep up the primary effects is unrealistically expensive, and the physical addiction (or rather, lack thereof) is not compelling enough to drive people to spend exorbitant amounts of money buying an increasing number of tabs every day.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 05:32 PM

Re: Drugs
 
My philosophy on doing drugs in the first place.

Experimentation is retarded, it only takes 1 time to become addicted, and it's not worth it to take the risk. Taking drugs for recreational purposes is also retarded, you don't need to be tripping to have a good time. More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway, so there's really no purpose in taking them in the first place.

Alcohol is bad only if you become addicted or become too intoxicated. I don't really understand the purpose of drinking alcohol if it's just going to make you look stupid, sound stupid, and feel like shit.

Cigarettes and marijuana should both be illegal. Cigarettes can kill you. Marijuana can lead you to killing others. Neither seem like they should be legal, especially cigarettes because there has never been a medical purpose or good cause for them.

Sure tobacco chews your body up because IIRC, they put fiberglass in it, but at least you're ****ing up your own life instead of the little old lady crossing the street. This is probably the reason why cigarettes are legal too. The reason why I think cigarettes should be illegal and tobacco legal is because there's no second-hand tobacco deaths.

So basically, there are no good outcomes from taking drugs for recreation, and I don't think 99% of people doing these drugs have a medical marijuana prescription. So in my opinion, stay off the drugs, stay off the booze, stay off the cigs and it'll be better off for everyone involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yieldsign (Post 3400739)
I'd go ahead and say that if illegal drugs were legalized, then death as a result would be a. sufficiently informed, b. have law suits against it. Lmfao nice argument.

Yeah, and if pigs flew, the universe would be a magical place. Fact of the matter is that illegal drugs are illegal, so there are no public warnings and nobody would dare make a suit resulting from taking illegal drugs. Also, I thought this was a place for discussion not trolling, this is like the 3rd time you've targeted me so far, and that makes you, sir, an asshole.

who_cares973 01-20-2011 05:34 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reincarnate (Post 3400668)
Please don't be Storms, guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw

****ing brilliant

aperson 01-20-2011 05:38 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400751)
My philosophy on doing drugs in the first place.
Blah blah blah
blah blah bla

Please tell me you're trolling

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 05:41 PM

Re: Drugs
 
k, nobody's allowed to have an opinion on anything anymore.

Have fun getting shitfaced and killing an innocent family of 7 on the freeway, because apparently giving legitimate reasons why I think drugs are bad is trolling now.

I'm obviously not arguing against the medical reasons of some drugs, doing drugs for recreational purposes is wrong, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Putting other people's and you own lives at stake is extremely stupid.

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 05:45 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400761)
doing drugs for recreational purposes is wrong, and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

You do know this is Critical Thinking, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400761)
Putting other people's and you own lives at stake is extremely stupid.

k. Now if you could establish that's what's going on your argument might have a foundation.

What's wrong with suicide anyways?

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 05:46 PM

Re: Drugs
 
How's this, tell me how doing recreational drugs is right.

I did establish what was going on in my argument, but ap thinks I'm trolling. I have to say everything in 1 sentence or less or I get trolled.

EDIT MrGiggles post below:

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html

/argument. Keep your stoned asses off the streets and I could care less if you kill yourself making poor decisions.

MrGiggles 01-20-2011 05:47 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400751)
Marijuana can lead you to killing others.

[citation needed]
Quote:

How's this, tell me how doing recreational drugs is right.
I truly think that marijuana has helped me to become a more open and social person. I've become so much more comfortable with who I am and I can finally enjoy social interactions with others. I'm no social butterfly, but at least I have some genuine friends.

this post got really spergy really fast my b

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 05:48 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400764)
How's this, tell me how doing recreational drugs is right.

I did establish what was going on in my argument, but ap thinks I'm trolling. I have to say everything in 1 sentence or less or I get trolled.

Not really.

And it's right because I like it and it doesn't hurt anyone except me.

ChrisReams 01-20-2011 05:53 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400594)
I've never tried marijuana

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400751)
More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway

How would you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400751)
..Marijuana can lead you to killing others..

Did you even read my post on page 2? You're very misinformed.

danny53x 01-20-2011 05:53 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ffraxis (Post 3400569)
Whats your opinion on drugs? All of us have done drugs at least once in our life (even if we didn't know that said substance is considered a drug) legal or illegal.

Do you support specific drugs? Why do you support these drugs? What are the pros/cons to this drug? Do you support drug groups, anti-drug groups? Do you support the business behind it or no?

Please, do tell.

Also in trying to support your point of view please pull some actual facts.

Drugs helped the dentist pull my teeth, and helped my dad with his arthritis, and provided senseless entertainment for the masses.

Substance abuse, however, brings people together and tears people apart... it's nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds (maybe thousands?) of years. A few laws aren't going to stop such a tradition. I don't know much about the human body, but I'm not going to take the risk for a 'revolutionary experience' on a few substances that might take some years off my life.

EDIT: I know people who safely enjoy such substances, and I can honestly say that it would without a doubt be fun to get high every day of my life, but I have personal goals and morals I've set since I was a toddler.

duddychuck@yahoo.com 01-20-2011 05:54 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Plus the Jails are jam packed with people who got arrested for small amounts of marijuana, and they arent necessarily bad people who belong there. Legalize it andbam, problem solved. Bad people in jail sounds like a good idea to me.

PS: And your Taco Bell stocks will go through the roof.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 05:56 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReams (Post 3400770)
How would you know.

I don't live under a rock. It's not a big secret that smoking a ton of marijuana screws your memory up. My main argument here is simply this: People go out to a party sober, they take some hard drugs or smoke some weed or drink alcohol, etc. They get back in their cars and are operating a 2 ton machine travelling at 60 MPH while their perception is skewed. It pisses me off when people drive stoned or drunk because you end up taking innocent people's lives just because you wanted to enjoy yourself a little more.

In short, YES, marijuana can be the catalyst that can cause you to go out and cause a motor vehicle homicide.

MrGiggles 01-20-2011 05:58 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400773)
I don't live under a rock. It's not a big secret that smoking a ton of marijuana screws your memory up.

but that's different from what you said before.
Quote:

More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway
and this is wrong.

Well, for me. I'm checking out online to see if that's an issue for other people, but I definitely retain most of my experiences high.

aperson 01-20-2011 05:58 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400761)
k, nobody's allowed to have an opinion on anything anymore.

Have fun getting shitfaced and killing an innocent family of 7 on the freeway, because apparently giving legitimate reasons why I think drugs are bad is trolling now.

I'm obviously not arguing against the medical reasons of some drugs, doing drugs for recreational purposes is wrong, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Putting other people's and you own lives at stake is extremely stupid.

ok let's see here.

------
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Experimentation is retarded, it only takes 1 time to become addicted, and it's not worth it to take the risk.

Please respond to my previous post I made that addresses this same issue and demonstrates how it isn't just confined to chemicals. Should shopping be illegal:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson
Some people can go shopping without getting addicted; some people are addicted to shopping and are in financial ruin. Some people smoke weed every once in awhile and go about their lives normally; some people spend all their time smoking weed and lose any motivation or direction in life. Some people try heroin once and their lives go into a downard spiral; some people try heroin a few times and decide it isn't for them.

You are arguing that if it is possible to get addicted to something then it should be illegal. If that's the case everything should be illegal because I can't think of anything that it isn't possible to get addicted to. So obviously the answer here is in shades of gray and not black and white, which you seem to be vehemently against.

------
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Taking drugs for recreational purposes is also retarded, you don't need to be tripping to have a good time. More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway, so there's really no purpose in taking them in the first place.

First off, as someone who has never done drugs, please tell me how you know that if you smoke weed you are "too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway." I've rewritten most of the code for this site stoned and I remember pretty much every change I've made.

Second, you seem to think that the only 'recreational' purpose is 'having a good time.' Did you also totally gloss over this post that I made:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the only reason people take drugs is to "artificially enjoy themselves." I've taken a wide variety of drugs and my primary purpose in doing them was to understand myself better. I find that you learn more about what you are actually composed of, both physically and mentally, by jarring the flow of things and seeing how your body copes with it. There are many others who share the same view, try googling the term 'Entheogen.'

------
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Alcohol is bad only if you become addicted or become too intoxicated. I don't really understand the purpose of drinking alcohol if it's just going to make you look stupid, sound stupid, and feel like shit.

I like a good glass of beer with my dinner. There's nothing like a nice ale to go with your meal; there are flavors that you won't find anywhere else, aromas too. It's a really incredible experience if you just pause and take it in. I also don't like to get more than a little bit buzzed because it quickly turns from enjoyable to mostly just a headache and an obnoxious next morning. I nor anyone else that has been around me drunk think that I looks stupid or sound stupid when drunk. I mostly just want to talk or play a video game or something.

------
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Cigarettes and marijuana should both be illegal. Cigarettes can kill you. Marijuana can lead you to killing others. Neither seem like they should be legal, especially cigarettes because there has never been a medical purpose or good cause for them.

So people aren't free to make a choice as to whether they can do something that kills them? Whoa there sir, put down that mushroom it contains carcinogens which have a chance of possibly making your life less long.

Also, please cite an article that lists being under the influence of marijuana as the principle cause of someone killing someone else. http://news.google.com get searching

------
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Sure tobacco chews your body up because IIRC, they put fiberglass in it, but at least you're ****ing up your own life instead of the little old lady crossing the street. This is probably the reason why cigarettes are legal too. The reason why I think cigarettes should be illegal and tobacco legal is because there's no second-hand tobacco deaths.

Google search: fiberglass cigarettes, this is the first result
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/menthol.asp
"There's no fiberglass in cigarettes. Granted, RJR did try using a fiberglass shell on its flopped smokeless cigarettes in 1994, but that part of the contraption wasn't ingested by the smoker; it was more of a housing, if you will. Other than that, no fiberglass. "

This is the reason we're getting angry at you in this thread. You are spouting beliefs that 5 seconds of google hunting disprove and then you use those beliefs as a fulcrum to tell us that drugs are wrong.

------
Quote:

So basically, there are no good outcomes from taking drugs for recreation, and I don't think 99% of people doing these drugs have a medical marijuana prescription. So in my opinion, stay off the drugs, stay off the booze, stay off the cigs and it'll be better off for everyone involved.
Spoken like someone who has never done a drug "recreationally"

ChrisReams 01-20-2011 06:01 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400773)
I don't live under a rock. It's not a big secret that smoking a ton of marijuana screws your memory up.

The point I'm making is that none of your opinions come from personal experience. They come from what you've been taught or told.

You said "More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway".

I can remember the events that happen when I'm stoned. And I can remember those events way down the road also. I have hundreds of good memories when I was smoking weed. So, that's why I think what you said is silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400773)
People go out to a party sober, they take some hard drugs or smoke some weed or drink alcohol, etc. They get back in their cars and are operating a 2 ton machine travelling at 60 MPH while their perception is skewed.

I drive slower when I'm high. If the speed limit is 45, I go 40. Because I am more paranoid. So, no. You're wrong again.

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 06:05 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReams (Post 3400781)
Because I am more relaxed and more paranoid.

There's something perplexing about that particular word combination.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:06 PM

Re: Drugs
 
@ aperson alcohol response

I said alcohol is only bad if you get addicted (alcoholism) or become too intoxicated.

I don't see how having a beer with your meal is becoming an alcoholic or getting drunk.

@ aperson tobacco argument

I was referring to chewing tobacco, not cigarettes here, sorry if this was confusing.

aperson 01-20-2011 06:07 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400784)
@ aperson alcohol response

I said alcohol is only bad if you get addicted (alcoholism) or become too intoxicated.

I don't see how having a beer with your meal is becoming an alcoholic or getting drunk.

@ aperson tobacco argument

I was referring to chewing tobacco, not cigarettes here, sorry if this was confusing.

Congrats you posted two rebuttals to points that are mostly tangential to my argument. Now please address the rest of them.

Edit: There is also no fiberglass in chewing tobacco either
"There is a widespread urban myth that fiberglass is added which is incorrect, resulting in higher and faster nicotine absorption, but at least in the case of snus, the appearance of glass-like particles may be due to the formation of salt crystals."[1]

ChrisReams 01-20-2011 06:09 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 3400783)
There's something perplexing about that particular word combination.

Yeah, it didn't exactly come out how I meant it to, lol. So I just put paranoid.

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 06:09 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReams (Post 3400785)
Lmao, I just realized that. Seems contradictory, but somehow it remains true for me.

That's why I didn't correct you. I can't argue with your conscious experience, something I have no experience with, especially given that my limited experience with marijuana means no analogue for it. A lot of conscious states normally assumed contradictory are actually fully compatible. Like pain and pleasure.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:10 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReams (Post 3400781)
I drive slower when I'm high. If the speed limit is 45, I go 40. Because I am more relaxed and more paranoid. So, no. You're wrong again.

That's good for you, but that doesn't prevent thousands of people from dying by drugged driving each year...

Thanks for trying to shoot my argument down like usual, appreciate it.
@ap: Sorry too busy defending myself from people like ^ to finish my train of thought.

You're mostly correct on everything else.

aperson 01-20-2011 06:12 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400793)
That's good for you, but that doesn't prevent thousands of people from dying by drugged driving each year...

Thanks for trying to shoot my argument down like usual, appreciate it.

Quit responding to irrelevant shit and respond to all the points in my post.

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 06:12 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Rushy, you are extremely irritating and your posts show a clear bias and lack of deeper thinking regarding this subject. If anyone is trolling, it's you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400751)
My philosophy on doing drugs in the first place.

Experimentation is retarded, it only takes 1 time to become addicted, and it's not worth it to take the risk. Taking drugs for recreational purposes is also retarded, you don't need to be tripping to have a good time. More times than not, you're too damn stoned to remember anything that happened anyway, so there's really no purpose in taking them in the first place.

No, it does not only take 1 time to get addicted, you're making a blanket statement that simply does not apply to all drugs. Marijuana is not physically addictive; saying anything to the contrary is disregarding scientific fact. If you're going to disregard science in favor of exaggerated BS, then you have no place in critical thinking. At all. You won't get anywhere here by continuing your current strategy because most people in this forum want to discuss fact, not fiction.

You don't need TV to have a good time. You don't need bars to have a good time. You don't need books to have a good time. This is an incredibly bad argument because no recreational activity on its own is necessary to have fun - yet you single out all drugs as the one that is negative for no factual reason - instead, you're spouting off stigmatic crap with no basis.

Also, you're confusing short term memory with long term memory. It is true that marijuana can affect long term memory (although, as I've pointed out, this is only caused by excessive smoking within a certain context, which most smokers do not do), but it certainly does not cause anterograde amnesia, which ironically, zolpidem (or ambien), a legal prescription drug, does. So do benzodiazepines, legal prescription anxiolytic drugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Alcohol is bad only if you become addicted or become too intoxicated.

Omg, No Way!!!! It's not like that statement doesn't apply to every other drug, too! But the point is that alcohol has a low overdose threshold and is very physically addictive.

Quote:

Cigarettes and marijuana should both be illegal. Cigarettes can kill you. Marijuana can lead you to killing others. Neither seem like they should be legal, especially cigarettes because there has never been a medical purpose or good cause for them.
Marijuana has been statistically proven to demote violence in people. Not to mention, a significantly lower proportion of people drive after smoking than drive after drinking. You're grasping at straws right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Sure tobacco chews your body up because IIRC, they put fiberglass in it, but at least you're ****ing up your own life instead of the little old lady crossing the street. This is probably the reason why cigarettes are legal too. The reason why I think cigarettes should be illegal and tobacco legal is because there's no second-hand tobacco deaths.

keep in mind that psychedelics have an extremely low rate of violent incidents. And these are the type of drugs that we are advocating legalizing. Again, most people do not drive while on psychedelics, and the ones that do report far less motor impairment than drunk driving. I'm not advocating driving under the influence of any drug, but simply pointing out that what you're saying isn't really predicated by fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
So basically, there are no good outcomes from taking drugs for recreation, and I don't think 99% of people doing these drugs have a medical marijuana prescription. So in my opinion, stay off the drugs, stay off the booze, stay off the cigs and it'll be better off for everyone involved.

How about for recreation? What is wrong with having fun? The last time I checked, your subjective opinion isn't the standard for what is right and wrong in regard to how people spend their time. and 99% of these people don't have medical marijuana licenses because they use it recreationally; which shouldn't be illegal for the reasons we've pointed out. So far, you haven't given any good reason why recreational drug use (excluding dangerous drugs like heroin, free base cocaine, methamphetamine, etc) should be illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
Yeah, and if pigs flew, the universe would be a magical place. Fact of the matter is that illegal drugs are illegal, so there are no public warnings and nobody would dare make a suit resulting from taking illegal drugs. Also, I thought this was a place for discussion not trolling, this is like the 3rd time you've targeted me so far, and that makes you, sir, an asshole.

Yes, the fact of the matter is that illegal drugs are illegal, but that does not necessitate the fact that it is right. In fact, it is totally unrelated, logically. This is critical thinking dude; the point is discuss issues that we find pertinent to our lives. Are you saying laws can't be changed or can never be wrong? Guess what, at one point in time it was illegal to interracially marry, and now it's not; are you saying that law should never have been changed because "if pigs flew, the universe would be a magical place?" Are you SERIOUS?

Also, this is the 3rd time I've "targeted" you because you've made 3 posts, what the hell. If you post, expect other posters in this thread to respond to you. If you haven't noticed, I've also responded to aperson, ich-whatever, jenova sephiroth... aka, the people who have posted in this thread. If you don't want your opinions dissected, get the hell off of a board called "critical thinking." I'm not sure if you possess the critical thinking faculties to understand what "critical thinking" entails.

MrGiggles 01-20-2011 06:13 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 3400783)
There's something perplexing about that particular word combination.

I think it makes a certain amount of sense. I've read that THC alone causes a very anxious and psychotic high, while CBN (another prevalent cannabinoid) offsets it with muscle relaxation and helps prevent some of the negative bits from THC like anxiety and nausea. It's a feeling I get while high too. aperson could probably shed more light on the subject than I could.

aperson 01-20-2011 06:15 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400793)
@ap: Sorry too busy defending myself from people like ^ to finish my train of thought.

You're mostly correct on everything else.

I have no idea how you could possibility hold the views you have and agree with my post without there being massive contradictions somewhere in between. Please elaborate.

Reincarnate 01-20-2011 06:20 PM

Re: Drugs
 
rushy: If you're trolling, stop. If you're not trolling, take what's being said to you a bit more seriously.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:24 PM

Re: Drugs
 
This is my final reiteration of my sole argument that everyone keeps trying to redirect to what I said before.

Ignore everything I said before.. my main argument is that when you get high or drunk, don't go out and drive your car around town. My only concern is people getting killed by drunk/drugged drivers. If you want to do drugs for recreation, fine. If you want to do drugs for other purposes, fine. I used to think that people cared about their own lives, but I don't anymore, go ahead and mess yourself up.

It just seems utterly unfair to the huge amount of people killed yearly by drunk/drugged drivers, if you think that innocent people deserve to die and you argue against this point, I feel sorry for you, I don't care what forum this is, have some respect for a human life.

With that, I'm gonna go ahead and get out of this topic (Ding dong the troll is dead the wicked troll is dead!) and hope that you guys realize all I'm trying to do is advocate the all too high percentage of deaths that come from drunk/drugged driving.

PS I was never trolling

aperson 01-20-2011 06:27 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400805)
With that, I'm gonna go ahead and get out of this topic (Ding dong the troll is dead the wicked troll is dead!) and hope that you guys realize all I'm trying to do is advocate the all too high percentage of deaths that come from drunk/drugged driving.

PS I was never trolling

You don't get off that easy.

Why am I allowed to drive after I eat a banana? All that potassium might get me pretty drugged up.

What about after I take some Tylenol?

What about after I take some Tylenol with Codeine for my recent shoulder injury?

What about after I smoke a bowl of weed?

MrGiggles 01-20-2011 06:31 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I'm totally down with a message of "don't drive under the influence", I know a lot of people feel they drive safely under some drugs but I'd rather people just don't take the chance.

but you sound like you're backpedaling from all the stuff you said earlier about illegal drugs killing people and legal drugs being good, etc. I think you put too much stock in what the government says is legal or illegal.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:32 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson (Post 3400807)
Why am I allowed to drive after I eat a banana? All that potassium might get me pretty drugged up.

Trolololololololol.

I do get off that easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGiggles (Post 3400813)
but you sound like you're backpedaling from all the stuff you said earlier about illegal drugs killing people and legal drugs being good, etc. I think you put too much stock in what the government says is legal or illegal.

You start saying stuff you don't mean and going to extremes when you're getting attacked 4 to 1.

What I meant by legal drugs was like aspirin and ibuprofen, not cigarettes, alcohol and tobacco like people thought.

aperson 01-20-2011 06:43 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400820)
Trolololololololol.

I do get off that easy.

Potassium is a drug, much like aspirin, much like THC.

What I'm trying to get at here which you seem to be too dense to comprehend is that there is little to no correlation between "legality of a drug" and "the increase in danger if you were to drive under the influence in this drug" which is still what you are arguing.

Hell, salvia is legal and have you ever seen someone drive on salvia?


Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz
What I meant by legal drugs was like aspirin and ibuprofen, not cigarettes, alcohol and tobacco like people thought.

Then you don't mean 'legal drugs' you mean something else and it is your job to clarify what you mean.

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:51 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I started out by saying

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400578)
Good drugs good, bad drugs bad.

But then somehow this turned into a legal vs. illegal battle, so I had to clear up what I was referring to as legal drugs (maybe the OP was referring to legal drugs such as salvia and tobacco)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400820)
What I meant by legal drugs was like aspirin and ibuprofen, not cigarettes, alcohol and tobacco like people thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson (Post 3400826)
Then you don't mean 'legal drugs' you mean something else and it is your job to clarify what you mean.

I did ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperson (Post 3400826)
What I'm trying to get at here which you seem to be too dense to comprehend is that there is little to no correlation between "legality of a drug" and "the increase in danger if you were to drive under the influence in this drug" which is still what you are arguing.

Hell, salvia is legal and have you ever seen someone drive on salvia?

As far as I'm concerned, anything that messes with your perception shouldn't be paired with driving.

aperson 01-20-2011 06:55 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400828)
As far as I'm concerned, anything that messes with your perception shouldn't be paired with driving.

When I eat an apple when I'm hungry I can feel the changes in my body as the sugars metabolize into more energy. It starts as a tingling sensation in my fingers then ripples back to my core and feels quite nice. Therefore, an apple has altered my perception and by your argument I shouldn't eat an apple while driving.


What chemicals do we ingest that don't alter our perception? How many times do I have to repeat this point in different ways before you quit saying I'm trolling or you try to discard it as irrelevant before you actually get the meaning of what I'm saying?

rushyrulz 01-20-2011 06:56 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Don't believe I ever said alter..

I'd have an easier time understanding your examples if they weren't all small scale eating an apple or a banana. Drugs have a serious effect on your perception and it's not a positive effect, as you can see in the salvia video you posted. Drugs trigger a stronger response and a more negative response. Eating an apple is legal because it alters your perception positively, drugs are illegal because they alter your perception negatively.

EDIT:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 3400835)
So cars should come equipped with sensors that prevent them from starting if you're really angry?

Anger effects your perception how? That's just reckless. I mean.. I'm getting pretty mad and I can still see that there are 5 fingers on each of my hands.

EDIT2: k, done for real this time, getting tired of fruit analogies,et al

Kilroy_x 01-20-2011 06:56 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400828)
As far as I'm concerned, anything that messes with your perception shouldn't be paired with driving.

So cars should come equipped with sensors that prevent them from starting if you're really angry?

danny53x 01-20-2011 07:08 PM

Re: Drugs
 
ya

aperson 01-20-2011 07:17 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3400834)
Eating an apple is legal because it alters your perception positively, drugs are illegal because they alter your perception negatively.

Then define what 'alter your perception negatively' is.

You keep defining everything in terms of something else yet somehow you magically never get back to a place with a concrete example or definition.

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 07:18 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Don't worry, he's going to make a tautology between "negative" and "illegal drugs"

aperson 01-20-2011 07:32 PM

Re: Drugs
 
I'm gonna paraphrase a quote here but I think it gets a pretty good point across:

"Why the hell is pleasure a negative side effect?"

Yieldsign 01-20-2011 07:40 PM

Re: Drugs
 
Well, I do agree to an extent that it's a bad idea to drive on quite a few substances (legal ones included; alcohol, opiates, etc...) but I don't think that should be the basis of criminalization. I mean, it's becoming quite invasive at the point when we're hindering peoples' rights to alter their consciousness on the basis of what they might do when there isn't much empirical evidence to support that claim.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution