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-   -   Why Chinese Mothers are Superior (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=116823)

Guest15937 01-9-2011 08:15 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iironiic (Post 3391221)
Fortunately, I don't have any of these cases, but I've heard a story about another Asian who is mathematically talented but despises mathematics because his parents ruined his joy of the subject.

While neither I nor my parents are actually Chinese, this actually happened to me. I once loved math, and could easily spend an entire day doing math because I found so much joy in it. That all was ruined because I got pushed into taking AP Calculus as a freshman. Now (not counting homework) I am more inclined to avoid math like the Ebola virus.

Go figure.

XCV 01-9-2011 08:19 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
I'm trying to figure out how you can even take AP Calculus as a freshman, that's way too much acceleration. Maybe it's because of where I come from, but the absolute minimum around here is eleventh grade.

Minati 01-9-2011 08:24 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XCV (Post 3391393)
I'm trying to figure out how you can even take AP Calculus as a freshman, that's way too much acceleration. Maybe it's because of where I come from, but the absolute minimum around here is eleventh grade.

AP Calculus as a freshman is pretty easy... the concepts are very easy to grasp, don't require too much thinking, and the numbers aren't mind-numbing either.

It's very healthy to start off your high school carrier in advanced maths & science courses because you'll then know whether you want to pursue a carrier in the maths & sciences (ex. engineering, aero, biochem, etc) or whether you want to pursue a more liberal arts & humanities carrier (ex. law, econ, poli sci, etc) or even both (ex. finance).

All in all, pushy parents create prodigies and the 4.0 students that most of us have envied at one point in our lives. We even wish we had their grades, their skills, and that's where the difference comes in. The parents.

XCV 01-9-2011 08:25 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
No, I've been through calc, I understand it just fine, but the way my schedule works there's too much prep before it to take it in ninth grade.

dag12 01-9-2011 08:30 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Depends if the school allows acceleration.
At my school, if you could demonstrate that you understood everything preparatory for calculus, you could take calculus whenever you wanted.

XCV 01-9-2011 08:34 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
I suppose that's true, I just didn't want to get embroiled with the college too much back then...

/offtopic

FFR4EVA_00 01-9-2011 08:51 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dag12 (Post 3391235)
One thing that I think is important to note is the cultural background. Many first-generation Asians have pushy parents. Given that the parents moved to the United States for greater opportunities, of course they would want to push their children as hard as possible to be "successful" (I'm hesitant to use that term, because the definition of success, again, varies). So there's already a mentality putting a strong emphasis on hard work and diligence, as well as a willingness to obtain a financially stable and successful life, from the start.

If this is true, then explain why this isn't a stereotype among Hispanics, who usually perform worse than the average American?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCV (Post 3391393)
I'm trying to figure out how you can even take AP Calculus as a freshman, that's way too much acceleration. Maybe it's because of where I come from, but the absolute minimum around here is eleventh grade.

I taught myself some basic calculus in seventh grade. It's too bad I decided to get myself sucked further into this shithole instead of pursuing it further. The hard part of calculus, like basically everything else in the current education system (for some bizarre and stupid reason), is list memorization. The jump from 1/sqrt(1-x^2) to arcsin x (or vice-versa) is hard to understand if no one demonstrates how it works, which hardly any high school class bothers to do. But I digress.

I think Minati puts it very well. So-called "Chinese parenting" looks extreme because "Western parents" are too nervous. They think that any exertion of force will make them explode into a frenzy of distrust which, of course, no parent wants. There are some exaggerations in this article, of course, but some of the arguments do have a little sense to them if you think about it. In plays and musicals, the prospects of landing a big part involve a hundred things besides talent. Why bother with something that can, in some cases, be unwinnable?

leonid 01-9-2011 09:37 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Helping children push their potentials is a good thing, doing so without knowing their true talents is not really..

esupin 01-9-2011 09:46 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
I'm more curious to find out how these children will act one they grow up and have their own kids. Will they do the same thing or take the exact opposite approach?

FFR4EVA_00 01-9-2011 09:54 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
It depends. Are they surrounded by the same environment that they grew up in? In that case, most likely. Are they more aware of pop culture forcing an idealized world where all people with IQs above 100 are soulless voids and all people with IQs below 100 need to "work" "hard" while keeping in mind that the importance of self-value and predestination might make it completely unimportant down everyone's throats? It depends on whether or not they succumb to peer pressure.

dag12 01-9-2011 10:36 PM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FFR4EVA_00 (Post 3391434)
If this is true, then explain why this isn't a stereotype among Hispanics, who usually perform worse than the average American?

Well, simply put, because the asians who come to the country have to come over a whole ocean to reestablish their lives. You have to have some degree of pre-established resources to do that. Also, they tend to be well-educated and have professional jobs, so they want their childrens to be as likewise.
On the other hand, hispancs simply have to cross the border. They have nothing to lose, since they're often poor from the beginning. As such, they want their children to work right after high school, so their children also are unable to obtain a post-secondary education.
This is what creates the gap between immigrants from different countries, and the dichotomy in performance between Asian-Americans and Latin-Americans - there's already an inherent gap in resources and familial values from the start.

Xx{Midnight}xX 01-10-2011 12:15 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dag12 (Post 3391216)
"Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment.

This made me laugh.

DossarLX ODI 01-10-2011 12:38 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...no_selfdefense
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...=victimization
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...tion_authority
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...eist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts

dag12 01-10-2011 12:50 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI (Post 3391585)
"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...no_selfdefense
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...=victimization
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...tion_authority
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...eist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts


Excerpted from http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...no_selfdefense:
"I, for one, hope this starts a trend. I hope more young people will respond to violence with violence. Many will say that I'm encouraging the destruction of the "traditional family" and to that I say you're goddamn right I am! When the vast majority of child abusers are parents, it is starkly clear that the traditional family is exactly the sort of place where bad things happen. "

No, but really. The concept of inter-generational equality, as the website calls it, is ridiculous.

Minati 01-10-2011 12:52 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI (Post 3391585)
"You wanna know how you can help your children?
Leave them the fuck alone!"
-George Carlin

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...no_selfdefense
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...=victimization
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=older
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...tion_authority
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...eist_fallacies

My parents "leave me the fuck alone" (for the most part) and I can say that's the best thing they've ever done for me AT ALL, and also the reason why I've been able to get the highest grades I can possible and actually value my efforts

Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and so you ended up playing Stepmania for all these years when you could've done something else like learning a sport or learning an instrument. Congratulations. Your parents "left you the fuck alone" and that's why you use George Carlin (who is an excellent comedian, I'll agree with that), and this.. "snipeme.com" as some sort of reliable source for supporting the fact that parents should leave their kids "the fuck alone."

Sorry to say, but leaving kids "the fuck alone" has never been a good parenting choice, if not the worst. That has been tested by time and time again.

dag12 01-10-2011 01:08 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
From
http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?y...tion_authority
"One of the biggest bullshit lines that I hear from people all the time is that you shouldn't question authority, not even when authority is obviously wrong."

The problem is, more often than not, parents are right - after all, they do have much more experience. They may not be infallible, but I'm almost certain that they're more capable of making a rational, intelligent decision than their child. I consult my parents all the time, and I respect them because they know what they're doing.

Now, I'm not saying that children should always act obsequiously; I'm just saying that I don't think this article is particularly relevant to the parent-child relationship. I just don't think a parent-child relationship is one that can be entirely relegated to a authority figure-follower relationship.

DossarLX ODI 01-10-2011 02:00 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Main reason why I posted those is because interestingly enough, it seems like most of the child abuse actually occurs at the home according to statistical data.

There have been many cases where my parents simply just don't listen to me and they just yell at me to do something. And I have to lie to them, and I don't feel safe talking to them at all. They pretty much forced me to break any close ties whatsoever. So if any of you are willing to, elaborate more on why you think it is "ridiculous" please.

Minati 01-10-2011 02:25 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI (Post 3391615)
Main reason why I posted those is because interestingly enough, it seems like most of the child abuse actually occurs at the home according to statistical data.

There have been many cases where my parents simply just don't listen to me and they just yell at me to do something. And I have to lie to them, and I don't feel safe talking to them at all. They pretty much forced me to break any close ties whatsoever. So if any of you are willing to, elaborate more on why you think it is "ridiculous" please.

You see, the "yelling at your children" part wouldn't have happened had they raised you in a more strict manner beginning from your kindergarten years.

They're not "leaving you alone" - they just don't really care anymore because it's hopeless now. Especially not when you're off in the corner playing Stepmania (not saying you play it 24/7, but just stating some of your interests over other things, such as family matters, schoolwork, etcetera).

I say this because I (think) I saw you post a thread when I didn't have an account about your schoolwork ethics and how you had no motivation.. or something along those lines. Assuming what I think is true, then maybe your parents do have a legitimate reason to yell at you, and maybe you don't have a legitimate reason to be ignoring them.

It's not they who cut off close ties with you - it is you, the child. A parent would not do so, especially not if they're still sending you to school and "leaving you the fuck alone". Cutting off ties means divorces, non parental guardians, and much more. So I just think your parents gave up on you.

That's my speculation, take my opinions with a grain of salt - they are not personal attacks but rather observations that I've made in my few days here on the forums.

rushyrulz 01-10-2011 02:34 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by article
I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.

And what if it didn't suddenly click for her? Then she would feel "lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic." As well as not getting the next n amount of meals or having a birthday party for the next n amount of years.

This parenting is just FANTASTIC, when the parent's expectations are greater than the child's ability, you'll get some seriously fucked up kids because cussing them out, insulting them, and threatening them will ensue a fear of their 'Chinese mother' because they're not perfect.

It's also a sticky situation when you barrage your children 5 hours a day for 10 years on the piano and it turns out that they don't like the piano. Now you have a kid who extremely good at piano, but not very good at anything else. Also, last time I checked, you have to be really damn good at music to make a decent living off of it, book smarts aren't a good backup without any 'street skills' to pair them with.

Bottom line for me is to at least allow your kids to show some kind of genuine interest in something before you start unleashing hell on a warpath of fury to get your kid to be perfect at one specific skill. Not allowing your children to have a mind makes for a cookie cutter world. If all parents had piano prodigies, nobody would be a piano prodigy thus fucking up their future. I love how Amy Chua totally dismissed her husband's input on the matter at hand and continued to be a raging bitch.

tl;dr: There are too many problems with this parenting style that will lead your child to have either a fucked up life or an unhappy one. Kids need to have a mind of their own and pursue what they excel at.

/endrant

EDIT @ Minati: Quit attacking Dossar for being good at Stepmania. You're making him sound like a punk who fails all his classes and is an ass to his parents, but as he stated before he gets good grades and is self-motivated. Just because he's good at SM and FFR doesn't mean he's completely shut out from the world.

Minati 01-10-2011 03:01 AM

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rushyrulz (Post 3391647)
EDIT @ Minati: Quit attacking Dossar for being good at Stepmania. You're making him sound like a punk who fails all his classes and is an ass to his parents, but as he stated before he gets good grades and is self-motivated. Just because he's good at SM and FFR doesn't mean he's completely shut out from the world.

I'm not attacking DossarLX ODI - I was just saying why he shouldn't advocate the "leave the kids the fuck alone" style of parenting. If you read the previous pages, you would know. I've read a few of his threads and nowhere in my response did I say he fails his classes, gets bad grades, or being shut out from the world. Maybe being "left the fuck alone" worked for him, but it sure does not work the other 99.9% of teenagers who end up being worse off than they could have been.


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