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-   -   Is it wrong to be gay? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=113296)

fido123 10-23-2009 08:53 PM

Is it wrong to be gay?
 
I want to respond to this thread but I kinda figured it was defiantly not the place to do it.

The people who think being gay is wrong, why? It's understandable if it's a religious reason, and it's understandable if somebody is just simply uncomfortable about gays. I even think it's fine to make gay jokes as one would make racist or sexist jokes. However all too often I see people simply saying "Being gay is wrong" and they leave it at that. if you take religion aside, what negative consequences does being gay have on society? Obviously many don't want their son/daughter to be gay because it directly effects their lives (However from my experience you're yelling at your kid for something he has no control over) but how come many people will simply hate gay people who they hardly no and have no relation to?

I'm gay but I don't flaunt it in the least bit, in fact at my College everybody thinks I'm an amazing womenizer as I'm still in the closet. But it just kind of bugs me when I hear people say "It's ****ed up". This is more a question for people like GG_Guru who in the previous thread just denounced it as wrong. Also in no way am I making this thread because I got offended or anything over the last thread, it's just something I'm curious about. From my personal experience, it can not be helped. I don't want to sound like a gigantic college douchebag but I've been to parties and have made out with girls, once two at a time, had some "titty shots", and even some grinding and like, seriously I couldn't care less. More importantly there's the emotional aspect. I'm sure there's something about the opposite sex for strait people that they just find like they can find that romantic connection with. I happen to just have that with guys. So what is wrong with being gay?

Shadow The_Hedgehog 10-23-2009 08:58 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Taking religion aside like you said, nothing is wrong with being gay. If being gay is being yourself, then just be yourself. There's nothing more to it, you shouldn't care what other people think. Wrong is just something defined by the human's mind when it comes to situations like this and it's just an opinion.

MyRoseTearsBlood 10-23-2009 09:01 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
There is nothing wrong with being gay. People are just closed minded.
/Thread

awein999 10-23-2009 09:10 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
being gay is not wrong in the slightest. It's a part of nature. It's just different from how most other people view the world. that's ok, people don't always respond well to difference. A typical human reaction.

korny 10-23-2009 09:15 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Of course it's not wrong to be fu*king gay. Are men -supposed- to have sex with other men? Well, we sure won't procreate that way. But there are plenty of straight relationships that don't produce any of children either so if procreation is the means for justifying what is right or wrong within a relationship, procreation doesn't work. The bible says it's wrong. But this isn't about religion. If this argument is based off of whether homosexuality is wrong based off of the bible, then yes it's wrong only because the bible says so, and it's word is law to the christian world.

korny 10-23-2009 09:24 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KgZ (Post 3267776)
The point I'm trying to make is that nobody here is going to flat out say "yes, its wrong to be gay." This debate isn't really going anywhere other than for people to say "This is why I hate people who are intolerant of homosexuality."

Well, given that no one has yet to create an insightful enough opinion opposing homosexuality, then the point will continue to stand that there is nothing wrong with it.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 09:34 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
children are led by example. i do not want gays to be that example especially with how commercial the gay culture has gone. soon enough gay will be an option when filling out applications

fido123 10-23-2009 09:36 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267798)
children are led by example. i do not want gays to be that example especially with how commercial the gay culture has gone. soon enough gay will be an option when filling out applications

Could it be said you only disagree with gays advertising their sexuality? I don't make a big deal out of my sexuality at all except for what my family and friends are going to think, along with many other gays. If a gay guy keep it to himself to a realistic degree, do you think that's all right?

korny 10-23-2009 09:39 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KgZ (Post 3267791)
If this was a catholic FFR forum you might get some nice discussion.

But this is full of teenagers who know better.

Right. It can only be considered wrong on a religious basis was all I'm saying. I only meant to suggest that were someone else able to provide a reason other than a religious one, then no point yet exists to contradict.

fido123 10-23-2009 09:49 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267798)
children are led by example. i do not want gays to be that example especially with how commercial the gay culture has gone. soon enough gay will be an option when filling out applications

Sorry to reply to this again, but if you don't like homosexuals because of this, what do you want them to do about? Also I don't think a kid is going to be gay by example. I think it's completely a physiological/biological condition.

korny 10-23-2009 09:54 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KgZ (Post 3267812)
We can debate whether debating over this.

If the debate is going to be stemmed from your religious views, then I'd rather not. Homosexuality being wrong from a christian stand point is common knowledge. Debating over a religions views is rather pointless, as you'd be trying to impress upon your views based off of what a higher power that cannot be proven exists says is immoral.

fido123 10-23-2009 10:12 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow The_Hedgehog (Post 3267816)
It can actually happen though

What do you want a homosexual to do about it though? Excluding the attention whore 14 year old gays, I'm pretty sure nobody decides to be one of the most severely discriminated minorities in the world, if not the most.

@Dr.Tran: If it was on a job application, that would be illegal as the employer is probably going to be screening gays, but this doesn't happen anymore at least, if it did really ever commonly. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say with this.

dandandamdandan1111 10-23-2009 10:23 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
i really think anything that can contribute to being gay will. like either by way of example, experimentation(and liking it,) or biological/physical traits. a person doesn't really choose to be gay, but is more of an attraction. straight people are naturally attracted to the opposite sex, gay people are attracted to the same sex. so to answer the question, no. it isn't wrong to be gay as it isn't by choice, but more of a likeness/attraction.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 10:29 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267841)
@Dr.Tran: If it was on a job application, that would be illegal as the employer is probably going to be screening gays, but this doesn't happen anymore at least, if it did really ever commonly. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say with this.


although it would be illegal for an employer to screen applicants pure based on sex or sexual preference it happens. my mom has been denied jobs based on her sex and nothing more. although i personally dont have a problem with the gay culture and the gay lifestyle i just dont want the next generation to be known as generation gay

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 10:37 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
saying that it doesnt seem likely to happen just makes you come off as ignorant. there are plently of things in the past that "didnt seem likely" that are now part of every day lives. just look at technology and how far its come in the past 2 decades.

fido123 10-23-2009 10:38 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267871)
saying that it doesnt seem likely to happen just makes you come off as ignorant. there are plently of things in the past that "didnt seem likely" that are now part of every day lives. just look at technology and how far its come in the past 2 decades.

You mean like how women and blacks are now equal members of society? What's wrong with that happening with gays? I'm not quite sure exactly what you don't want to happen.

MrGiggles 10-23-2009 10:44 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Too many gays, not enough people supporting the human population? That could be construed as either good or bad for many reasons.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 10:50 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
im more or less thinking about the children. if children are taught that being gay is ok and that it can be a choice instead of something you're born with like a mental disorder then some years from now there will be fewer children going to school in the future because not as many couples would be having children do to some couples being the same sex. eventually teachers will be laid off due to lack of students and our workforce will slowly start to wither away.


i have gay friends so i am not homophobic by any means

MrRubix 10-23-2009 10:52 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
More freedom to live different lifestyles + slower population growth = win/win

fido123 10-23-2009 11:00 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267896)
im more or less thinking about the children. if children are taught that being gay is ok and that it can be a choice instead of something you're born with like a mental disorder then some years from now there will be fewer children going to school in the future because not as many couples would be having children do to some couples being the same sex. eventually teachers will be laid off due to lack of students and our workforce will slowly start to wither away.


i have gay friends so i am not homophobic by any means

Are they suppose to be taught it's wrong, and then the actually gay children who grow up and discover their sexuality are suppose to feel alienated and be hated by their peers? Also how would them thinking it's ok make them want to? It's like saying it's ok to **** dogs, therefore everybody would **** dogs. If they don't want to they're not going to do it. Also the world needs the birth rate to decline, or else we're going to run out of resources and all die. I think we can give up a few teaching jobs for that.

@Ph3eal: Why is it wrong to be gay? Saying it's simply wrong just makes you look ignorant.

Izzy 10-23-2009 11:02 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Why does love for someone have to purely be sexual?

fido123 10-23-2009 11:04 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 3267914)
Why does love for someone have to purely be sexual?

As I stated in my OP, there's a pharmacological attraction. If I found a girl I really connected with I would probably really try hard to actively presue that unless I was already in another serious relationship..

Izzy 10-23-2009 11:08 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
I feel the same way, which is why I consider myself bisexual. Assuming that a deep meaningful relationship is always sexual in some way. It's bound to happen. People are simply curious. That phenomenon alone is probably enough to spark a biological change over a long period of time to cause people to become homosexual.

korny 10-23-2009 11:10 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 3267920)
I feel the same way, which is why I consider myself bisexual. Assuming that a deep meaningful relationship is always sexual in some way. It's bound to happen. People are simply curious. That phenomenon alone is probably enough to spark a biological change over a long period of time to cause people to become homosexual.

Are you applying this to anyone?

PhaeL v2 10-23-2009 11:11 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267913)
@Ph3eal: Why is it wrong to be gay? Saying it's simply wrong just makes you look ignorant.

If the post was to me, okay, I will make my arguments, even if they're still ignorant:

1 - Either you believe cientific or religious theory, humans, and all the animals, were meant to be with the opposite gender.

2 - No matter how much years will pass, gay couples will always suffer prejudice. Just let the things be at their normal "way".

3 - I, personally, don't think a gay couple is a good thing to see.


But let me clear you one thing: I'm not homophobic. I have gay friends too, just like Carlos, and it has nothing to do with me, it's just my opinion. If they're happy like that, let them be happy. I won't interfere.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 11:12 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
not so much that taught that its wrong just not have it shown as a lifestyle choice.children are very impressionable, if you tell a child its ok to smoke and expose them to smoking then there is a very good chance that child will become a smoker. same goes with just about anything. again using technology as an example did you know that right now cellphones are outselling land lines in mexico? i doubt its because of the convenience seeing as how much a cellphone costs in mexico is about the same as here and the amount of money someone makes is far below minimum wage. they have it because they have been told that cell phones are ok/better to have than traditional landlines. now think of that scenario but with gays. if gay couples start to out number straight couples there will be a big hit not only in the school districts but other things as well. the toy industry will be losing out on billions of dollars over the years and the makers of school supplies will also take a hit. not to mention having no kids to grow up to be the next scientists or political leaders will also be bad on a global scale. if you've never seen the movie children of men i suggest you watch it because it shows pretty much what could happen to the world if gays were to take over. this of course wont happen in our lifetime and like i said im thinking more about the future than the present.

fido123 10-23-2009 11:14 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaeL v2 (Post 3267923)
If the post was to me, okay, I will make my arguments, even if they're still ignorant:

1 - Either you believe cientific or religious theory, humans, and all the animals, were meant to be with the opposite gender.

2 - No matter how much years will pass, gay couples will always suffer prejudice. Just let the things be at their normal "way".

3 - I, personally, don't think a gay couple is a good thing to see.


But let me clear you one thing: I'm not homophobic. I have gay friends too, just like Carlos, and it has nothing to do with me, it's just my opinion. If they're happy like that, let them be happy. I won't interfere.

Now I don't think you're ignorant but number 3 really isn't a reason, rather than you're uncomfortable with gays. So would that be being uncomfortable and not liking it rather than thinking it's wrong? Also number 2 is what they said about blacks, and women, and all that same logic.

fido123 10-23-2009 11:16 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
@Tran: I think gays outnumbering strait people is like...really off the wall. It's MUCH easier for strait people to love members of the opposite sex, so I don't think it's going to happen. Also I agree that advertising it as a lifestyle is retarded. It's somebody's sexuality, big deal.


Also Pheal. So you don't like it? That's perfectly fine, it doesn't make it wrong though, you just don't like the idea of homosexuality. Tell me if I'm wrong. And if you think it's wrong and you're not giving reasons, no offense you probably don't have any and if you do please share them. If there are none you're ignorant. Not assuming you're any of the latter things I'm saying, just covering my bases.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 11:22 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267937)
@Tran: I think gays outnumbering strait people is like...really off the wall. It's MUCH easier for strait people to love members of the opposite sex.

like i said children are very impressionable so saying that its easier for a straight person to love a member of the opposite sex only applies right now. i also think its safe to say that even now if the gay culture and lifestyle keeps getting pushed it will be just as easy for someone to love someone of the same sex jhust as easily as it is for a dog owner to fall in love with their pet.

PhaeL v2 10-23-2009 11:23 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267937)
Also Phael. So you don't like it? That's perfectly fine, it doesn't make it wrong though, you just don't like the idea of homosexuality. Tell me if I'm wrong. And if you think it's wrong and you're not giving reasons, no offense you probably don't have any and if you do please share them. If there are none you're ignorant. Not assuming you're any of the latter things I'm saying, just covering my bases.

I already shared my reasons: I don't like the idea, that's why I think it's wrong. But if people are happy and feel fine about it, what the hell do I have to do with it? Just because I think it's wrong, I'll not write in my shirt: "**** YOU ALL, ******S". And the fact that I think it's wrong doesn't make me a homophobic at all, as I already stated in previous posts. It's MY opinion, no one have nothing to do with it, neither do I have nothing to do with their opinions and lifestyles. That's what humans call "tolerance".

devonin 10-23-2009 11:25 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Cleaned up the thread some. Remember which forum you're posting in, kiddies.

fido123 10-23-2009 11:25 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267947)
like i said children are very impressionable so saying that its easier for a straight person to love a member of the opposite sex only applies right now. i also think its safe to say that even now if the gay culture and lifestyle keeps getting pushed it will be just as easy for someone to love someone of the same sex jhust as easily as it is for a dog owner to fall in love with their pet.

So would it be more accurate to say you're against people not having children, and gays fall into this. Also just against the gay culture rather than being against homosexuality itself?

PhaeL v2 10-23-2009 11:29 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGiggles (Post 3267944)
Which scientific theory are you referring to?

Talking about animals, not other organisms, in the evolution's history, there wasn't a single case of animals with the same gender procriating. To have fecundation, you need genetic material from both beings, one of each gender. Aside some separated reproduction systems, like
parthenogenesis, from bees, where the queen produzes his own drones without any fecundation.

I may be truly equivocated, as I posted in another thread, I can't make clear arguments in English, because my skills don't let me to do so.

I'm stopping posting here. If I'm wrong, sorry, but it's my opinion.

fido123 10-23-2009 11:31 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaeL v2 (Post 3267957)
Talking about animals, not other organisms, in the evolution's history, there wasn't a single case of animals with the same gender procriating. To have fecundation, you need genetic material from both beings, one of each gender. Aside some separated reproduction systems, like
parthenogenesis, from bees, where the queen produzes his own drones without any fecundation.

I may be truly equivocated, as I posted in another thread, I can't make clear arguments in English, because my skills don't let me to do so.

I'm stopping posting here. If I'm wrong, sorry, but it's my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex...ior_in_animals

PhaeL v2 10-23-2009 11:34 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267958)

Oh, thanks, it probably will clear my mind a little.


Edit: Hmmm, I was talking about evolution, keeping species "alive". There's aparently no problem in homossexual parenting, but it's not enough to keep your race from extinction. But, well, thanks for the article, I'll stop posting.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 11:34 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
im not against people not having children because thats a personal choice and im not one to tell people how to live their life. well you cant havea gay culture without actual gays so i think its safe to say i am against gays

fido123 10-23-2009 11:36 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267963)
im not against people not having children because thats a personal choice and im not one to tell people how to live their life. well you cant havea gay culture without actual gays so i think its safe to say i am against gays

I think rap is dumb. It makes everybody and even white people delve into rap culture making them steal cars and kill people. Guess I'm against blacks.

MrGiggles 10-23-2009 11:37 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaeL v2 (Post 3267957)
Talking about animals, not other organisms, in the evolution's history, there wasn't a single case of animals with the same gender procriating.

Well, there's the banana slug, which is hermaphroditic and can even self-fertilize, but I don't know if that counts as a same-gender procreation.

Besides, I suppose it depends on whether you believe evolutionary changes come randomly or whether evolution is being guided by a higher power. It could potentially just be coincidence that we even have different genders. For all I know, it could even be already explained by science. Man, I'm going to be up all night researching some of this stuff now.

EDIT: Fido, he said procreation, not just homosexual activity. =P

PhaeL v2 10-23-2009 11:43 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGiggles (Post 3267970)
Well, there's the banana slug, which is hermaphroditic and can even self-fertilize, but I don't know if that counts as a same-gender procreation.

Well, since it is hermaphroditic, holding both genders, yeah, it can count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGiggles (Post 3267970)
Besides, I suppose it depends on whether you believe evolutionary changes come randomly or whether evolution is being guided by a higher power. It could potentially just be coincidence that we even have different genders. For all I know, it could even be already explained by science. Man, I'm going to be up all night researching some of this stuff now.

Now you got me, lol. Pointing this just made me go like :?, and thinking about it. I think I'll research some too.


Also, damn, this is such a tough topic to come up, we can go through the night talking about this and it'll never end.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 11:44 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267967)
I think rap is dumb. It makes everybody and even white people delve into rap culture making them steal cars and kill people. Guess I'm against blacks.

you're generalizing rap to try to prove a point

fido123 10-23-2009 11:46 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267982)
you're generalizing rap to try to prove a point

You're generalizing homosexuals to try to justify your opinion.

Izzy 10-23-2009 11:49 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by korny (Post 3267922)
Are you applying this to anyone?

No, should I be?

korny 10-23-2009 11:51 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 3267987)
No, should I be?

Definitely not. I was just making sure you weren't trying to say that this applies to anyone and everyone.

Dr Tran 10-23-2009 11:51 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fido123 (Post 3267984)
You're generalizing homosexuals to try to justify your opinion.


are you implying that there is more than one type of homosexual. each one being vastly different then the next?

fido123 10-23-2009 11:53 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267990)
are you implying that there is more than one type of homosexual. each one being vastly different then the next?

Not all homosexuals are involved in gay culture. I'm attracted to men, I don't thrust my hips to Chere in school parking lots. None of my male friends have ever suspected I'm gay. It's like how all black people don't like rap and other black culture.

Izzy 10-24-2009 12:07 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
It is depressing that rap is black culture.

Dr Tran 10-24-2009 12:08 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
not all homosexuals are involved in the gay culture but all homosexuals like men.

fido123 10-24-2009 12:10 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3268006)
not all homosexuals are involved in the gay culture but all homosexuals like men.

And that's not the influential culture. If I was 30 and married, a kid wouldn't have a clue I was gay. How would this effect him/her? And anyways what do you want homosexuals to do about it?

cooke71892 10-24-2009 01:00 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
well, i myself am a straight guy who loves to be in the company of gay dudes, honestly. no, i'm not bi, and i already said i'm straight, but gay people are some of the funnest people i know! who knows, maybe in the future gays will be revered as pioneers and maybe even dramatized in culture, no one knows! why do people care? Religion. but think about it. the bible was written mainly on the teachings of Jesus, right? well, if some random dude came up to you on the street and told you that he was the son of god, would you believe him? that's what Jesus did. for all you people saying he performed miracles, where you there?? so, in conclusion, doesn't it almost sound like the only real reason there is for not accepting gays is the simple fact that people just can't deal with what they don't know or care to know?

Dr Tran 10-24-2009 01:10 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
this discussion was never about religion and what was taught using the bible but good point

Mollocephalus 10-24-2009 04:05 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
it seems like you guys are treating "being straight" and "being gay" like they're mutually exclusive statuses, when they're not.

if homosexual couples are placed at the same level as eterosexual couples, kiddies will just see both of them. the fear of childrens turning gay because of this is just a bad way to mask your insecurity and frustration against differences. it would instead have a very positive influx on childrens mentality, because they would be used to live in a non-monochromatic social context and would be less likely to become intollerant towards people who are different.

in additions to these things, and all the other collateral goods this could cause, i'm sure there would be a shift in people's mentality, whereas a relationship would be natural with whatever persons you better like, regardless of the gender.

also: emotive replies on critical thinking arguments are a no-no. if you bang in and feel like something isn't right, maybe you should actually start thinking what is.

Squeek 10-24-2009 05:46 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267896)
im more or less thinking about the children. if children are taught that being gay is ok and that it can be a choice instead of something you're born with like a mental disorder then some years from now there will be fewer children going to school in the future because not as many couples would be having children do to some couples being the same sex. eventually teachers will be laid off due to lack of students and our workforce will slowly start to wither away.


i have gay friends so i am not homophobic by any means

What.

Please tell me you're trolling. You have to be trolling.

Let me introduce you to a few things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_insemination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption

I don't think I need to say anything else.

Oh, actually, I do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3268006)
not all homosexuals are involved in the gay culture but all homosexuals like men.

I'm curious. Do you understand what lesbians are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran (Post 3267925)
not so much that taught that its wrong just not have it shown as a lifestyle choice.children are very impressionable, if you tell a child its ok to smoke and expose them to smoking then there is a very good chance that child will become a smoker. same goes with just about anything. again using technology as an example did you know that right now cellphones are outselling land lines in mexico? i doubt its because of the convenience seeing as how much a cellphone costs in mexico is about the same as here and the amount of money someone makes is far below minimum wage. they have it because they have been told that cell phones are ok/better to have than traditional landlines. now think of that scenario but with gays. if gay couples start to out number straight couples there will be a big hit not only in the school districts but other things as well. the toy industry will be losing out on billions of dollars over the years and the makers of school supplies will also take a hit. not to mention having no kids to grow up to be the next scientists or political leaders will also be bad on a global scale. if you've never seen the movie children of men i suggest you watch it because it shows pretty much what could happen to the world if gays were to take over. this of course wont happen in our lifetime and like i said im thinking more about the future than the present.

First thing wrong with this post: you compare being gay to doing drugs. One of them is harmful to your body, the other isn't. One of them can be a choice or it can be a biological imperative that is out of your control. I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which.

Second thing: I have absolutely no idea why you assume cell phone popularity has anything to do with public misinformation. This scenario is exactly the same here in America. Land lines are not convenient anymore. Cellular technology has taken leaps and bounds above that of a public switched telephone network. It is better quality for a better service. Why wouldn't everybody do this?

Third thing: You assume that somehow, once "being gay is ok" is the norm, that everybody will be gay. This is false. When being gay is ok, the only difference will be that there are more married gay couples and that society accepts it. The number of children, the ratio of straight:gay couples, etc. will not change.

You are not thinking rationally at all. All of your assumptions could be substituted with "aliens killed all the women so mankind is doomed" and it would make the same amount of sense.

Afrombean 10-24-2009 06:01 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek (Post 3268167)
First thing wrong with this post: you compare being gay to doing drugs. One of them is harmful to your body, the other isn't.

Right. Sodomy can cause damage to the colon, while drugs like marijuana are totally safe in every way.

Quote:

One of them can be a choice or it can be a biological imperative that is out of your control.
What.

Having gay sex is not a biological imperative. Nor is doing drugs, unless the person is physiologically addicted. Sex itself could be called a biological imperative, but specific kinds are personal preference, not imperatives. For example, a pedophile might be turned on by little girls and want to plow them, but it's not biological drive that leads them to wanting to plow little girls. All the biological drive does is make them want to plow something, it's up to the individual to decide what.

Quote:

Land lines are not convenient anymore.
Land lines are plenty convenient for me.

But sorry, I'm new to the thread. What does this have to do with gay sex??

Quote:

The number of children, the ratio of straight:gay couples, etc. will not change.
Not true, I'd say. There are plenty of homosexual people who parent children biologically when if they were gay and in a gay couple, they'd instead adopt an already existing child.

So the number of children should decrease, but it might be negligible, and actually, I'd say having more children be adopted would be a good thing.

Afrombean 10-24-2009 06:13 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NFD (Post 3268170)
Arfo's never heard of lube.

I've seen plenty of prolapses on efukt...

But on a serious note, I'd like to add that I am completely against the gay culture. But by the same note, I'm completely against other subcultures, especially the whole "black" angle that people of African descent like to play up.

edit:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus (Post 3268135)
it seems like you guys are treating "being straight" and "being gay" like they're mutually exclusive statuses, when they're not.

what

No dude, "gay" and "straight" are absolutely mutually exclusive. The overlap is called "bi". Gay cannot be straight, straight cannot be gay. If a person is "both" gay and straight, they're NEITHER, they're bi.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 08:14 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
My last post was erased... I think I was a bit agressive.
Well, it can't be wrong to be gay, since nobody chooses to be gay. They're not harming anyone.
And, to the people that say that they're bad examples to children: it will only teach them to be more tolerant and see it as something natural. Children don't learn to be gay...

Adamaja456 10-24-2009 08:33 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
i didn't read through this thread so if i repeat someone, i'm sorry.

Last i thought, i thought people didnt choose to be gay, its just someone they were born with so do i think its wrong to be gay? of course not. am i homophobic? of course not? but from what i know(and i could be wrong, this is just what i could of sworn i knew) being gay isn't something you randomly decide to become one day. its something inside you that shows itself during puberty.

god i suck at CT =/

Afrobean 10-24-2009 10:30 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robertson3r (Post 3268245)
why, does it upset your safe space as a good white boy

No, it's because it's entirely stupid and glorifies ignorance, violence, racism, and sexism.

I also find the style of speech these people employ to be offensive to my intelligence (to say nothing of casual use of the N word in spite of others getting torn to **** if the word is used, even in context of referring to it as an offensive word), not to mention the effect this subculture has brought on "fashion". I also find it annoying as hell that these retards intentionally exhibit antisocial behavior, because it's cool. And don't even get me started on the "swagger", which is really just a fake limp that makes the "gangsta" look like a stroke victim.

The gay subculture I just find annoying because of the in-your-face nature many exude. And the way so many of them talk. Why do they do that? Why would you talk like that? It has to be on purpose. You must consciously be altering your voice to sound that way. Why? It's stupid. The "fashion" angle can also come into play here, with **** like faux-hawks and overly androgynous or feminine style clothing.

ps "its just someone they were born with." I have a contention with this. For example, I enjoy vanilla ice cream. Does this mean I was born with this disposition? It's a personal preference that is deeply rooted within our selves and a person can't decide to like or not like something, but that doesn't mean it's something we're born with. At best, preferences for things are a combination of the environment and our biology.

Wineandbread 10-24-2009 11:04 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Yeah it's a pretty good idea to repost your deleted topic GG_Guru

I agree with Afro. I don't believe homosexuality is something you are born with. It's not something that is hard coded into your DNA.

However, I don't think that homosexuality is really a right or wrong question. Would "wrong" mean against the opinion of the majority? Then yeah, it's probably wrong. But in that case, does it really matter? You should already know that. People who think being gay is wrong inherently think so from the environments in which they live, where the vast majority of people are straight.

On moral grounds, it gets much more complicated. I think you have to ask yourself if morals can be taken subjectively. Some people have stated that the controversy against gayness comes from religion. Is there one religion that happens to be "right"? Probably not. I doubt we'll ever have any way of proving religion.

As much as I try to keep an open mind, I really dislike the way many gays portray themselves. It's due to many of the reasons Afro pointed out. And like the majority, I have been trained to stamp such culture as weird. But I don't believe that homosexuality is absolutely wrong.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 11:13 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
It's annoying how straight people in this forum don't even try to see things from the gays' perspective.

You don't have the right to treat other people badly just because your taste is different.

And this whole "I don't like to see gay men kissing" thing is very annoying. They're not kissing you. They're not doing ANYTHING to you.

Magewout 10-24-2009 11:20 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Hey I didn't say I hate gay people or anything haha, just stating that men don't like to see gay people kissing.
It's a weird thing of nature actually, because 2 women kissing = awesomely hot. 2 men just makes us feel uncomfortable. Maybe that's why you get so many negative reactions from straight men? Just trying to help you finding an explanation :)

PhaeL v2 10-24-2009 11:23 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268279)
It's annoying how straight people in this forum don't even try to see things from the gays' perspective.

You don't have the right to treat other people badly just because your taste is different.

And this whole "I don't like to see gay men kissing" thing is very annoying. They're not kissing you. They're not doing ANYTHING to you.

Not everybody is tolerant to this, as me. As I stated before, it doesn't have anything to do with me. But you have to know that prejudice will be always existing. Humans are not nice to the "different", to the unusual, so don't be angry with the straight people of this forum, your and their points of view are differents.

Afrobean 10-24-2009 11:29 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268279)
And this whole "I don't like to see gay men kissing" thing is very annoying. They're not kissing you. They're not doing ANYTHING to you.

Actually, public displays of affection of all kinds are bad (i.e., frowned upon in society). Not just two guys kissing, but a guy and a girl as well. Keep that **** in private where that sort of stuff belongs. No one wants to see it.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 11:34 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaeL v2 (Post 3268286)
Not everybody is tolerant to this, as me. As I stated before, it doesn't have anything to do with me. But you have to know that prejudice will be always existing. Humans are not nice to the "different", to the unusual, so don't be angry with the straight people of this forum, your and their points of view are differents.

So I'm supposed to be tolerant to the fact that they're not tolerant?

Magewout 10-24-2009 11:38 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268299)
So I'm supposed to be tolerant to the fact that they're not tolerant?

Yes, that's what the entire concept of tolerance is about.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 11:42 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magewout (Post 3268301)
Yes, that's what the entire concept of tolerance is about.

Not really.
I don't have to be tolerant with prejudicial people, since they can actually change and improve. I want this to change, so I can't accept their attitude.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 11:47 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrobean (Post 3268291)
Actually, public displays of affection of all kinds are bad (i.e., frowned upon in society). Not just two guys kissing, but a guy and a girl as well. Keep that **** in private where that sort of stuff belongs. No one wants to see it.

Actually, you don't want to see it. Not everybody has a problem with displays of affection.
It's ironic how several people don't care about seeing people fighting...

PhaeL v2 10-24-2009 11:49 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268299)
So I'm supposed to be tolerant to the fact that they're not tolerant?

I didn't say that. You choose who you'll be tolerant to.

Afrobean 10-24-2009 11:52 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268312)
Actually, you don't want to see it. Not everybody has a problem with displays of affection.

Societal norms say otherwise. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "get a room"? This is a joking semi-polite way of saying "hey, quit it with the PDA, and keep it in private where that stuff belongs."

Quote:

It's ironic how several people don't care about seeing people fighting...
Physical fighting is also something that shouldn't be done in public.

Actually, it shouldn't be done at all.

Don't try to turn this into a "omg sex is bad, but why is violence good then?" It's not like that. Violence is bad and shouldn't happen ever, and sexuality/intimacy should be kept in the bedroom.

PhaeL v2 10-24-2009 11:56 AM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268312)
Actually, you don't want to see it. Not everybody has a problem with displays of affection.
It's ironic how several people don't care about seeing people fighting...

Sorry, that was a ****ty argument. There's some differences between the reaction of viewing a couple kissing or men fighting: in one, you'll find it disgusting (speaking about, essentially, strongly religious people) and wrong, based on the society, or even their religion, rules; at other hand, when you see people fighting, you have no reaction, you just paralize, you don't know what to do, just watch them. Don't relate both reactions, they're psychologically different.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 12:00 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
It wasn't even an argument, it was just a silly comment I made because I was angry with all the dumb intolerance here.

And no, it wasn't "****ty". I can make references to cultures that approve certain kinds of violence based on religious issues, while homossexuality or some displays of affection are completely unacceptable.

korny 10-24-2009 12:23 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
I think it's funny that anyone feels they have the means to determine what is right and what is wrong by their own moral code or whatever when dealing with something like homosexuality. Were the topic "is murder wrong" then that would be different. We're talking about an attraction between opposite sexes. Either hate it and/or disagree with and shut up, DGAF about it and shut up, or think nothing is wrong with it and shut up. There shouldn't be anything more to say.

funmonkey54 10-24-2009 12:34 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by korny (Post 3268344)
I think it's funny that anyone feels they have the means to determine what is right and what is wrong by their own moral code or whatever when dealing with something like homosexuality. Were the topic "is murder wrong" then that would be different. We're talking about an attraction between opposite sexes. Either hate it and/or disagree with and shut up, DGAF about it and shut up, or think nothing is wrong with it and shut up. There shouldn't be anything more to say.

Just curious here, where do you draw the line? I mean, the whole premise of the argument that homosexuals should have all the same rights as a straight couple is that they are in love and that should be the basis of a marriage. So, then, if a man were to fall in love with an animal, should they not be allowed to get married and carry out their lives together? Or, maybe on a slightly less drastic scale, should a child at age 13 and an adult of, say, 50 be allowed to hook up if they are in love? Or how about this one that exists as an issue today in certain areas. If 3 or 4 people fall in love, why should they all not be allowed to get married?

Where I get stuck on this is that if we are to accept the one situation of homosexuality, how can we deny the others their right to carry out lives together as well? They can present all the same arguments homosexual advocates bring forth today and they would in fact, unless you do not believe in the validity of your own points, be equally valid in defending their case. How can you defend homosexuality being nothing more than an equal alternative, but not defend other alternatives without stepping in with some level of hypocrisy. Unless of course all of you that support the homosexual lifestyle support these others as well. In which case I stand corrected.

korny 10-24-2009 12:41 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funmonkey54 (Post 3268353)
Just curious here, where do you draw the line? I mean, the whole premise of the argument that homosexuals should have all the same rights as a straight couple is that they are in love and that should be the basis of a marriage. So, then, if a man were to fall in love with an animal, should they not be allowed to get married and carry out their lives together? Or, maybe on a slightly less drastic scale, should a child at age 13 and an adult of, say, 50 be allowed to hook up if they are in love? Or how about this one that exists as an issue today in certain areas. If 3 or 4 people fall in love, why should they all not be allowed to get married?

Where I get stuck on this is that if we are to accept the one situation of homosexuality, how can we deny the others their right to carry out lives together as well? They can present all the same arguments homosexual advocates bring forth today and they would in fact, unless you do not believe in the validity of your own points, be equally valid in defending their case. How can you defend homosexuality being nothing more than an equal alternative, but not defend other alternatives without stepping in with some level of hypocrisy. Unless of course all of you that support the homosexual lifestyle support these others as well. In which case I stand corrected.

You would stand corrected.

If I knew a 13 year old girl personally who I felt was completely aware of the decisions she was making, then why would her dating someone 37 years older be wrong? I mean, a 13 year old girl fully understanding something like that would be a rare individual indeed but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist. Now, I don't think that it should be made legal in order to prevent those who would take advantage of such a delicate situation, but I wouldn't be opposed to the aforementioned situation.

mhss1992 10-24-2009 12:45 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funmonkey54 (Post 3268353)
Where I get stuck on this is that if we are to accept the one situation of homosexuality, how can we deny the others their right to carry out lives together as well? They can present all the same arguments homosexual advocates bring forth today and they would in fact, unless you do not believe in the validity of your own points, be equally valid in defending their case. How can you defend homosexuality being nothing more than an equal alternative, but not defend other alternatives without stepping in with some level of hypocrisy. Unless of course all of you that support the homosexual lifestyle support these others as well. In which case I stand corrected.

Not at all.
In homossexual and heterosexual couples, usually, both partners are consensual about the relationship, and have enough maturity to decide if they want to be together or not. Most 13 year old kids clearly don't have enough maturity or experience to decide and, obviously, neither do animals.

3 or more people being in love is, however, a more complicated issue.

funmonkey54 10-24-2009 01:06 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by korny (Post 3268360)
You would stand corrected.

If I knew a 13 year old girl personally who I felt was completely aware of the decisions she was making, then why would her dating someone 37 years older be wrong? I mean, a 13 year old girl fully understanding something like that would be a rare individual indeed but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist. Now, I don't think that it should be made legal in order to prevent those who would take advantage of such a delicate situation, but I wouldn't be opposed to the aforementioned situation.

Ok, but what about the other situations? Even if we were to disregard the bestiality one because I understand they cannot give consent, although it would be an interesting one to debate, what about multiple persons being married? You didn't touch that part yet. I would like to hear your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992 (Post 3268361)
Not at all.
In homossexual and heterosexual couples, usually, both partners are consensual about the relationship, and have enough maturity to decide if they want to be together or not. Most 13 year old kids clearly don't have enough maturity or experience to decide and, obviously, neither do animals.

3 or more people being in love is, however, a more complicated issue.

But who is to decide they do not have the maturity to make such a decision? Who gets to decide that any more than someone should decide if it is right for homosexuals to marry? Both are subject to the same "who is to judge" and "where do we draw the line" situation.

And this more delicate issue. It is really not much different. I mean, do you support their rights as well? Because it is not any different in its arguments, so do you support it?

According to Korny, I am standing corrected. This would mean that he believes all homosexual rights advocates support polygamy. Anyone care to argue his/my statement(s)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertson3r (Post 3268369)
yeah as said comparing homosexuality to bestiality is kinda stupid

animals cant give consent, humans can

You totally missed the point in that. While that is a good point, if you wish to play the consent card implying humans are different and make conscious decisions, then be ready to combat the fact that homosexuals are making a completely conscious decision and using homosexual animals as a solid proof or backing is equally as dumb.

Also, I do not care to get into a huge argument about that last point I made. It was directed for robert and robert only. I would like to see if he has more to his opinions or if he just wishes to spew out short responses that he cannot back.

Izzy 10-24-2009 01:09 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
I don't believe a 13 year old is mature enough to be trusted with their own decisions. If anyone thinks back to when they were 13 they are undoubtedly going to feel like they are much more intelligent and mature now than they were then. Well, as long as you are older then 13.

korny 10-24-2009 01:23 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Why can't a group of say, 7 people be in love and all get married as a whole? Like, why the hell not? I am totally for that idea. Present to me the counter argument as to what would be drastically wrong with that.

funmonkey54 10-24-2009 01:25 PM

Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy (Post 3268390)
I don't believe a 13 year old is mature enough to be trusted with their own decisions. If anyone thinks back to when they were 13 they are undoubtedly going to feel like they are much more intelligent and mature now than they were then. Well, as long as you are older then 13.

I believe that when I was 13, I could have made a conscious decision then. While I am more mature now, the same could be said from the perspective of a 50 year old. They could say those that are 30 do not deserve to make a decision on marriage or relationships because they are less mature than a 50 year old. Who is to say that they are not mature enough to make that decision?

Divorce rates in marriages that occur under the age of 20 are 27% more likely in men and 9% more likely in women to stay married than that of marriages in couples 20-24.*

Also, what about the polygamy. I don't see many people touching on that fact. What is your opinion and where do you believe we draw the line?


Quote:

Originally Posted by korny (Post 3268406)
Why can't a group of say, 7 people be in love and all get married as a whole? Like, why the hell not? I am totally for that idea. Present to me the counter argument as to what would be drastically wrong with that.

This is what I am saying. I mean really, no one has the right to draw any lines on these arguments. But to my points in saying all this, I am pretty sure we all agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere or chaos will reign more than it already does. I think we need to leave the line drawn where it is because in this crazy idea of everything must be politically correct there is only negative to come. If gay people want to hook up, go for it. But if it really is love and all, keep it to yourself. You can publicly say it, but the legal marriage should stay with the currently drawn line, because once you allow one exception, you really cannot combat the others without an awfully big hole of hypocrisy.



*[SOURCE]


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