PWND! [1 or 2]
 

so i get the feeling that, MAYBE, TENTATIVELY, this song's difficulty could POSSIBLY get bumped up a little bit? i mean it has a few more notes than other difficulty 1 songs, and number of arrows is grounds for difficulty increase, right?

let's look at some statistics.

so PWND! has been around for 1 day, and it has 1 aaa and 6 fc's. so that's 1 aaa and 6 fc's per day. let's compare it to other songs in the 1-2 region

Power is a 1, it has 10046 aaa's, 65995 fc's, and has been around for 2512 days. so that's 4.00 aaa's and 26.27 fc's per day.

Free Space is a 1, and it has 14038 aaa's and 91876 fc's and has been around for 2842 days. so that's 4.94 aaa's and 32.33 fc's per day.

these numbers are way bigger than 1 and 6.

compare it to some 2's:

Activity Unbroken is a 2, and it has 3433 aaa's and 24513 fc's, and has been around for 4003 days. so that's 0.86 aaa's and 6.12 fc's per day.

Town Theme 1 (WIP Edition) is a 2, and it has 1217 aaa's and 4250 fc's, and has been around for 1280 days. that's 0.95 aaa's and 3.32 fc's per day.

so judging from these numbers alone, PWND! would fit better as a 2 than a 1.

on patterns, PWND! has a lot of places where you have to press 2 arrows on the keyboard at the same time, which is a feature much more commonly found in 2's like Prelude No. 7 than it is in most 1's (a few, and only a few, are found in Free Space or that super mario thingy).

the only reason i can see for it staying a 1 is that it only has one colour of arrows, like Trip to the Moon (Club Remix), and Power (except one arrow), whereas many 2's have 2 or 3 different colours of arrows, which means that they are liable to confuse the player, like Excite Bike. however Counting Snow is a 2, and only has one colour of arrows; so there isn't much of an argument left for this staying a 1.

thoughts?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

this is very important and needs to be discussed

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

How did this get accepted for discussion?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Legendary thread status.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

There has only been 1 AAA on it where other 1-difficulty songs have 1000's of AAA's. I think it should appropriately be bumped to difficulty 2, just for the spike at the end. They give you the impression the song is over at the very end, and then they throw a ton of notes at you.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I think both 1 & 2 are too high, any chance we could give it a 0 rating?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

This thread is legen....

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Is there any chance that we could give the song a "legen" difficulty rating? dell has a valid point.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

2 seems fine to me. I think 1 is a bit underrates, although 3 would be way too high because its definitely not THAT hard.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

too srs, step down a bit.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Riot, its oh so slightly harder than Power. but definitely not as hard as falling into you

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

still too srs, step down a few more feet.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Also, Gold Charu is here.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I agree, it's definitely too hard to be 1... but not hard enough to be 3, so 2 it is.

I expect moderators to react as people are getting upset in here! ;D

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

On a completely serious note, PWND! is actually staying in game after april fools (let the rage ensue)

We put 1 temporarily because I didn't want any AAAs on this unlocking scarhand or derby, given that a quick setup change makes the ending significantly more manageable than playing pure spread (which makes the file arguably more difficult to AAA than some 89+s). But with some setup manipulation for the ending, it's considerably easier.

I'm going to see if PWND! can be exempt from awarding any skill tokens related to AAA'ing files, given that I think some D4/D5 players could AAA this with some effort and knowing how to manipulate the ending, but it's certainly not a file that should be rated under FGO.

So yeah, since this is staying, what do we rate this?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Judging by the weather, my horoscope and the process of rolling a dice 5 times in a row, I think we're not ready to correctly assess the right difficulty to PWND! I wanted to play test and give a strong objective feedback, but it seems like my computer is infected with virus, you guys won't believe me but I saw unicorns and the arrows turned into mines which significantly made me question my ability to judge files correctly. I hope you understand my disarray. I think PWND! should become "undefined", as everyone seems to agree that they are confused about its difficulty.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

On a serious note, i think it should be like an 81, maybe 82?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I was thinking more along the lines of 70, or possibly even lower.

The only real hard part of the song is the ending, and it could get manipulated. Was thinking 67 or something.

Whether that includes how off-sync the song is or not, idk.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

No.... do you realize how brutal those jacks even are? you're lucky to even FC it(which i still havent done) and jacks are my strongest point. though who cares about me.
Sure only the ending is really "hard" but its definitely not in the 70s. Let alone 60's


I guess you can semi compare it to AIM Anthem which is low, but its alot faster and closer together.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

wut? Definitely not 80's material lol. I'd rate it as a 73 or 74, Runny Morning difficulty.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

SK8R you're massively undershooting it as well

you're all undershooting it dear god

to prove I'm not insane, Dossar thinks it's FSO

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Runnymorning has the jack part near the beginning, this has it as the very last section. I feel that plays a slight role in it even if it is a short BNS song. Plus runny is underrated.
Idk, if ya'll feel its in the 70's then make it that low, i wont complain because honestly it doesnt matter to me but IMHO its scarhand worthy(even if it doesnt unlock the token)
Not that many people have played it yet, but theres not that many fc's on it, whether or not Raw Scoring plays a role i have no idea.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

So aim anthem is gonna not unlock oni anymore too right?

Idk, if a file is easily manipulable that it shouldnt unlock the token, it shouldnt be rated that high altogether.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

bleh. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU GUYS ABOUT OMGWTFT0K3N FOR YEARS.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Where is this PWND! ?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

i'm just gonna pluck a random number out of thin air and we can work from there

93, higher or lower?

EDIT: A side note about PWND!
Its 180bpm, if your going to compare it runny this is 20bpm faster so its at least an 80

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

dary.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

runny mornings is a 73, has double the notes than PWND, has multiple crap jack sections as compared to PWND having only one, and it has jumpstream & trills, which can be difficult in a blue note file if it's not properly synced.

I say 68, or 67.

edit: you're all crazy if you're thinking this is FSO material. Club, AIM anthem, and runny morning are all harder.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I don't get the comparison to Runny at all

There is a massive difficulty difference between Runny's jack patterns and PWND! Runny's longer jack section around 400c or wherever is essentially a single jack on the right hand and a trill on the left. PWND!'s ending with a pure spread setup forces the right hand to alternate between 4 and [34], which, at this bpm, is monstrously difficult to do so accurately.

If PWND! ultimately receives a numerical rating instead of just [dumb], it's at least a mid 80.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

If you can't get the comparison with it to runny, then how about the comparison to AIM anthem or Club? Those are extremely long & rigorous jack pattern files, both labeled as a 70. Club & anthem both have the same jack patterns that are present in PWND, but are slower and over a longer period of time (aka nearly the entire file).

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

In my honest opinion, PWND should be 86-88.

That's just me though.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Just because 560 notes of low VC material precedes a 30 note extremely difficult ending, doesn't mean the rating should be diluted to a low FMO. There is nothing in either of those files that's anywhere near as difficult to PA as the ending of PWND!

Isolate the ending of PWND! and see if you can AAA it in under 20 tries playing spread. I couldn't, and I'd be willing to bet many other D7 players couldn't as well.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I'm still riding on the bout that you shouldn't be able to unlock scarhand or even oni with this song. It should slide right in shy under the requirement for oni, simply based on dumb luck, manipulated setups, and that this isn't the first jack file that'd piss someone off.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

lol okay guys

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

It seemed pretty similar to revo etude, just shorter section rather than the entire last half of a file. Think the bpms are close too? The difference in length makes me think it could be several points lower, 88-schmolbluk range

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

So i'm not crazy for saying its in the 80's, good to know. The ending is extremely brutal, to PA and FC cleanly

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

If a file is rated in whatever range though, it should unlock the token that corresponds to that difficulty range

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Okay I retract my statement about being put at 86-88 because loleventhat'stoolow

How about 89-92 kthanks

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

My guess is mid/high 80s, maybe like 87? Strictly for AAA difficulty. If anything that's undershooting, wouldn't be surprised to see people suggesting up into the mid 90s, it's just really dumb.

Feels on par with the ending of Music for Bmah, but it's a one-handed anchor so it's way harder for spread, but in turn there's literally nothing else in the file and you can make it into a 2-handed anchor with a key setup switch. Basically the rating on this boils down to "are people actually going to bother to remap keys to make it a 2-handed anchor" in which case it drops down into Runnymorning territory.


Kind of stupid this is staying in the game but oh well. If anything, this file should be the one to motivate the (much needed) change where legacy files don't count for anything: leaderboards, skill token unlocks, etc.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I don't see why legacy files shouldn't count for st unlocks lol if someone decides to unlock Oni on Caprice that's their own stupid ass

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Legacy files should definitely count. Also they should definitely stay in game.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

They shouldn't count for AvRank because having to play through frothing ass to get 100% is awful game design... this is meant for another thread.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

For reference PWND! itself is 180 BPM as a song, but nestlekwik's steps do not fit 180. They resemble more of 170 bpm intervals, so it's slightly slower -- meaning the file is also horribly offsync. If the steps were 180 BPM there would be more 2-framers in the ending anchor jack.

Edit: Ok so it turns out the 170 BPM estimate was close but overshot. The 16th jacks are 165 BPM, courtesy of noname219 for finding this post.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

ok, so ive only played the songs once so far. score was a 6-0-4-1. honestly not saying much ofc since its all super easy up until the very end. mmm i wouldnt personally say it belongs in the high 80's range, but i can see low 80's definitely just off that last part.

edit: played it a few more times and tried it on slower rates as well. i take back what i said about low 80s. high 80's at more reasonable.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Wrong thread, but that 4th score on CP (sonitus, 0-0-0-10) is really fishy, especially coming from a new player with only 4 FCs lol

As for PWNED rating, I played it again and the ending is indeed hard to AAA, but easy to SDG. If rated as a high 80, won't everyone get a massive skill rating boost from just casually playing through it?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

He also has 0 max combo lol

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

this better unlock OWA

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I noticed that as well, but didn't realize that it's probably an old score and didn't raise flags earlier because up until raw scoring it literally meant nothing because 0 combo. LOL. Now it's important though.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

It's a token.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

It's clearly a 1.



just use the same trick as AIM Anthem, AAA no prob.

How 2 AAA end of pwnd:
set key setup to M,KL.
After jumptrill, there's a jumpjack on [14].

Hit the first one normally then the second one with your right hand (index and middle on L and M) then it's just a jumptrill, lefthand on LM, right hand on M, (mirror of course). Then the transition out is surprisingly smooth.

Takes a lot of practice (27 restarts, excluding isolations I did earlier), but you'll get the hang of it ;)

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

67 difficulty.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

OWA's face when that's 7 more than what he asked for

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

should be a 94

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

78 cause I could get scarhand with this too easy and it would feel dirty, excluded or not.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

78 sounds ok
or 89 so I can get owa rage

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Any rating given needs to include the possibility of doing key setup tricks like this.
It's the same discussion we had with overlay and Crowdpleaser/p4u v1, fortunately even with overlay those files are clearly FSO so it's not as big a deal. This is different because of the degree to which switching setup trivializes it from doing it pure spread, and the fact that doing so drops it into token unlock range, something that's supposed to feel like a milestone and not something you get off a file because it's misrated.

Could just leave it at 1? lol

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Why couldn't it have been Larpus, I liked that a lot better than PWND!... (sorry off topic, but)

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

seriously, we NEED a "??" for songs like this

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Not to demean rushy's AAA but I did stipulate playing purely spread when I said what you're referencing.

I'd still argue it's FGO to AAA with setup manipulation. I'd prefer that this didn't unlock any tokens related to AAA'ing, but I'm not exactly opposed to having this unlock scarhand. I was debating either 78 or 88 prior to this coming out (for obvious reasons), and I'm still debating between those two.

But again, I'm not against files like PWND!/CP/P4U v1 receiving non-numerical ratings. The issue would be coming up with a title for these types of files that still looks somewhat professional (because [dumb], [gay], [lol], etc. aren't gonna fly).

[??] could work.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Once again, TOO EASY FOR SCARHAND DONT DO IT

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Probably permission. Same reason In Da Club hasn't been re-added either lmao

Apparently someone back in the day (probably Bemaniruler or Synth) got permission for Beethoven Virus itself, but not BanYa blanket permission.

EDIT- I would be fine with [??]
Add Winning and TWWW to that list too lol

The bigger question is if non-numerical difficulties breaks any site programming. Handle your exceptions, kids.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

It's by no means easy to pull off, I was just being a nerd about it lol.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

I've been informed by a higher power that non-numerical difficulty ratings will cause FFR to catch fire and explode.

However, ratings of 0 would be acceptable.

Thoughts?

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

0 would be an interesting rating

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

it should totally be ranked a 0. 10 outta 10.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

zero sounds legit

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

zero sounds legit

add crowdpleaser, p4u v1, Winning and TWWW too imo
can't think of any others as glaring as these. should keep it rare, even spiky files should be rated as best as possible (ABCDEath kind of files, even though people have a big range of opinions, it's not >20 difficulty points spread difference like this lol)
it's only the ones that are really polarizing for other reasons (such as course mods and key setup issues) that should get zeroes

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Yeah I agree with you. Re-iterating what I mentioned to Prawn, I'd want clear guidelines to establish what gets 0'd and what doesn't. I like the idea of anything with gimmicks, zero framers, or short (under 30 notes or so) but extremely intense spikes that are 20 points or greater in difficulty compared to the rest of the file receiving a rating 0. Anything that doesn't fall into one of those categories gets a legitimate rating. vrofl can stay 999 despite having zero framers because vrofl.

I know there will be some people who would argue files like Revo and System Doctor should receive 0s despite their spikier sections being of longer durations, but then it gets really hazy on what should get a 0 and what shouldn't. With the aforementioned guidelines, I think it's as kept as simple and clearcut as possible.

Re: PWND! [1 or 2]
 

Revo and System Doctor are not gimmick files. Terrible =/= gimmick file.

I like the guidelines.