Ravi Zacharias
 

[quote=Hateandhatred;3957799]

The video is of Ravi Zacharias who is a christian apologist. This is more or less for the Christians on this site to share their opinions on what is said, but anyone can join in as long as there isn't any spam or foul language used. Also, sorry for only having the link posted and not a video put in. I can't seem to figure out how to embed the video itself.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Thanks for the help hateandhatred.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

This is the guy who thinks evolution can't be real because it contradicts the second law of thermodynamics, right?

Pretty sure he also believes gays don't have the 'right' to be gay or something along those lines.

Not much else to say.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

yeah there's nothing to discuss except there are a lot of people who get the wrong kind of education

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

What's up with you and posting videos that put the spin of the earth to shame

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

What's up with you guys not even having a point other than to bash something without a point by point discussion on the matter. Have a problem? Take the thought and address the issue with a reason as to why you are against it.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Because there really is nothing to discuss.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Your proof is what?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

This.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

All I see you do is assume your thoughts to make them so.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Yeah, honestly I don't see eye to eye on how that makes your argument correct.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

FFR does not receive religion well due to people defending the side of religion doing so in a (usually) illogical manner.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

I can understand that for some people. All I am asking is if some one actually discusses the topic.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Could someone just make a summary of the key points so we can talk about whatever this is without watching a 45 minute video?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

There are allot of tiny details, sorry...

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

I'll give it a serious listen later (maybe), but if I hear "the existence of an all powerful being makes it reasonable to think "x" thing happened and nothing contradicts it" I'm turning the whole thing off.

If I get through that video without hearing that I'll try to criticize and discuss your video.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

p.sure that's your problem
p.s. I want my christian apologies damnit!

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

You do realize that an apologists is a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

On another note, expecting people to watch an extremely long video on a topic they are likely to carry little interest about without any sort of preface/summation in regards to any sort of topic is also generally a bad idea. There isn't exactly a known Christian backing on FFR -- there are just a few members.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Well, I did say that this was mainly for Christians.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

pretty sure it's apologetics.

Besides why would you aim this at Christians? Sure, Christianity supporters could criticize how well he's doing it or what he should say, but the message that guy tries to pass is most likely aimed toward detractors of Christianity.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

An Apologist is some one who does Apologetics.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

probably, nevermind I don't even speak English l0l

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

I've been trying to listen to what he's saying for 20 minutes but I honestly don't know what he's trying to say. It's contentless drivel, and he's talking out of his ass about a lot of things such as secularization destroying a sense of shame in a culture, creating monsters..

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Not to say that it isn't allowed here or to discourage you from posting it here, but there are tons of better places than FFR you can go to if you want to get some discussion and thoughts from fellow Christians.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The main reason why I aim this at Christians is because most don't think about these things.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Thumbnail looks pretty cool.

-o24

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Do you understand the context he talks about these things in?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

well using "because god said so" isn't a very good argument either.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Huh?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

.-.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

What kind of a question is that anyway lmao. I'm interested in hearing your side of how it should be "interpreted" but the way I see it he's simply reciting fancy stories that entertain the people (even though I doubt they understand what he's actually saying at all and just clap at the punchline of the story). I don't see any wisdom or rational thinking in what he's saying

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

his name is suspiciously close to raffi

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The context of how something is said is important. A series of random events about a man cutting open a person might seem odd, but when you put in the fact that the person is a surgeon performing heart surgery, the entire event seems to make more sense.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Sure, but I don't see that kind of coherency in this video.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Well, one thing he tends to do is use stories to apply an idea. Maybe you are not connecting the story and thought that he brings up.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

This could possibly be a stretch, so bear with me, but maybe he's not making sense because... he's not making any sense?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

This guy is a massive idiot.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Why do you say that?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

This could be a stretch but, maybe you don't understand the way he goes about a subject.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Oh, if you want to see an example of this guy's logic getting shat upon (and if you want to learn where morality comes from)

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Okay, I'm two minutes in and he just said "we'll be doing some heavy duty thinking."

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

because he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

see previous video. guy is notoriously dishonest and ignorant. there are many more examples, to be sure.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Okay, and being two minutes in means you have no idea what he has discussed. You really should watch the video before making a comment.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Okay, if there are any examples you can give, then please do so.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Watch the video. Focus on one example first.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Given this guy's history of being a fucking idiot, I think I can assume a few things.

But yeah, I'm watching it.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

If that's the case, he's doing a really poor job of getting a message across. He dresses up his stories in vagueness up to the point where the story is just an event that happened without any clear message and when he does finally give a concrete conclusion he gives no explanation for it. Not to mention that he jumps to conclusions that are illogical to begin with. When he was talking about shame for example, he makes a lot of assumptions that don't make sense. Feeling shame is not the same as feeling empathy, and when he mentions how a rapist could just use medicine to ignore shame (lol) it doesn't at all mean that the rapist will get away with it or that rational thinking people will all turn into this (which is what he's implying when he says that when we feel no shame we turn into monsters). Even more so, most rapists have psychological issues that go far deeper than simple shame and feeling shame won't be reason enough for them to just magically stop. It's oversimplifying what is actually at play. There are just so many things he's saying that don't make any sense. Too much to address. They're fancy faux-profound stories.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

"The sacred meaning of marriage, the sacred meaning of sexuality."

Sacred based on what?

"Coherent set of answers to the existential questions that confront all human beings through their passage of life."

Well guys, that coherent set of answers is actually the Bible. That's it. Life answered. I have seen the light. Time to set aside all rational thinking and live my life out using a fairy tale.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Who's history? Also, please no profanity.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Ravi's history lmao.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Didn't notice the video you sent.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

What do you know about Ravi's history then?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd6om8IC4M

I'm mostly posting this for everyone else reading the thread, since this video is one of the best/easily-understood videos on the internet for understanding morality and why Creationists are full of shit when it comes to stuff like this.

This one is also good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgHoyTvyh4o

But people who have already been brainwashed by religion won't ever bother to take either of these videos into intellectually honest, careful consideration, so I am not posting this to you: I already know you won't respond to them in an honest way.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The fact that he thinks that Christianity can answer everything about life (including destiny (which is bullshit)), the fact that he SKIPS OVER empirical evidence for evolution in order to justify creationism, and that his sermons are generally 45-minute long appeal-to-emotion fallacies.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

11 minutes in and I'm fairly certain he's twisting personal experiences to his cause, nice one!

edit: oops he brought up tolerance. Tolerance is literally hindering scientific progress so uh, yeah man.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Very good find. That is clear and sensible.

-o24

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Okay, I can't fucking handle this anymore. I wonder if anyone in the audience is tracking with him, although I'd be willing to bet that the majority are smiling and nodding their heads when he says anything relating to Christianity.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Well, first thing I noticed is that when he repeated back what Ravi Zacharias said, he actually didn't understand. What Ravi is saying that for there to be a frame work of absolute morality, there must be a being that can give it. If there isn't than what the person in the video has said is true. But I never did hear as to why these things exist. All I saw was him saying how things work under certain circumstances. Never really as the how these idea's exist.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

checkmate

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Can you prove this?

This is a serious question by the way. What makes his understanding wrong, and what is the "right" way to understand what Ravi said?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Why would you assume this? There is a massive disconnect in logic.

Either way it would be impossible for "absolute morality" to exist assuming that meant everyone followed the exact same moral code. Which isn't true. Everyone has their own opinions of life and their morals are dependent on their personal experiences. Overall in a society you can build some kind of moral standards that are generally adhered to because it is in everyone best interest.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The example he uses to refer back to what Ravi has said is about the sun and it's rising. Well, morality and what causes it's function to be there is what he is talking about. The basis of these two things are different. One happens such as the sun going over head, while the other one is there, but why does anyone live by these things? Nothing then is wrong if these values are not upheld.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

In other words you didn't actually watch my videos that explain why your argument holds no water

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

I did.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

I like how you totally didn't understand the metaphor used to point out the flaw in logic. That or you are just ignoring it because you don't want to believe this guy is wrong.

Denial is a powerful thing.

Let me break it down for you. The weird guy is saying

If A then B, if B then C, if C then D must be true.
If D is true, then C is true, if C is true then B is true, if B is true then A is true.

The problem is that there was a jump from C to D that was a fallacy.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

How then can denial be a powerful thing? What logical sense then upholds yours over mine? Why do you assume yours is right and mine is wrong? Without something holding these things up, then no matter how well you try to put something together, another's idea can overcome yours.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Then you have a comprehension issue, since your questions have already been addressed and yet you carry on anyway

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

That's now how denial works. You are ignoring things and we are taking them into consideration. That alone already makes you look like a fool.

If it was a matter of opinion then sure, but you are dealing with things that be tested and potentially proven.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

What a nice looking black man.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The tides come in and go out. Explain that.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

The existence of the tides, and the law the governor's their motions. Explain how the tides exist in the first place?

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Actually I am using your logic. The idea that things have no basis of being there, and simply is because we want them to be so. You in the end are stealing from the Christian world view by believe your idea has a stance to be right and not wrong.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Oh, I was unaware that christianity invented right and wrong. Thank you.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

holy shit lmao

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Actually, Christianity explains why there is a definite reason for right and wrong. If man decides what is right and wrong, then another can overturn it.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

Also what makes your definition of right and wrong superior to others? Evolution has no claim of truth because truth is relative to each man if there isn't a higher power that puts it there.

Re: Ravi Zacharias
 

You win, you are unfathomably intelligent and I can't find any way to give a rebuttal.