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-   -   TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD] (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=152539)

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:34 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750655)
The only thing I don't like right now is how the majority is cool with a T-Force lynch in the same manner that majority was cool with Ulle/FFA lynch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750656)
It's logical, not controversial and everyone is happy.

If everyone is happy town is losing imo because it means wolves have no reason to care.

another thing. his logic is valid, but I don't know if the premise "not controversial and everyone is happy" is sound

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750658)
What the thread needs to most right now is Yoshl/Freezin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750674)
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
NO..............

Haku votes sunfan for "making a funny image in wolfchat."

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750675)
here's a post from the most recent mafia game I played in, FG referenced it shortly before she subbed out (FFA, FG and I won it yesterday afternoon)

some context will be lost here, but it should still suffice as evidence:
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...1#post-1250147

(btw that player did get killed the next day and he flipped red which I thought was great)

I'm an asshole in TWG sometimes. I care more about winning than I should, and this is bad for a couple reasons, I'll make it short. I'm going to try to be funnier sometimes because it'd make me more fun to play with, and doing stuff like what plop does where he made a banner for an official statement from that fake law-firm is the kind of thing I am jealous of, because it looks fun

so, I had fun making that image. I was sad when no one really responded to it at first, but such is life.

to actually get to your argument. You're not right on the team of 3. Even if you were, there's almost 0 chance you'd be right for the right reasons. Stop casting a net trying to catch every fish in the ocean.

If you think I'm scummy for having made that image, go ahead and vote me. But please, stop chasing a world of three on the second day phase without any mechanical information.

This is a pretty good exchange. I think it puts some distance between Freezin and YoshL. Interestingly, Freezin and YoshL are sunfan's top two wolves according to the Wolf Matrix. Something to keep in mind as we reread sunfan.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 12:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Something I noted in the Plop post....

He somehow knows how to solve the unsolvable Haku...

and has Sunfan as town

and both of them have Freezin' as their top wolf...

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:40 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750825)
it reached the thread
if you have the time, I think you owe me a good reason as to why freezin is off the table for today

he should have said enough words by now for you to comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750832)
I actually like Freezin pushing Plop, but I'm rather neutral on his other posts before that point so, you'll be correct to say he's technically still on the table.

Freezin, get off the table. Show some manners.

Another good exchange between Haku/sunfan. Makes sunfan look kinda good.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:44 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750881)
I'm not killing plop today
he can be a wolf, but his solving has been the best out of anyone's today, I'd say (potentially beaten by DBP)

I guess that;s what DBP's early activity was for; he knew he wouldn't be here at EOD so this is what we got

This is a minor conflict with my headspace, but I think it follows from his POV that Freezin and YoshL are "bigger fish to fry" in terms of a first wolf lynch. I would be interested to hear what sunfan thinks about Plop -period-, regardless of his lynch order given earlier

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:45 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750887)
maybe im getting too heated here

fake as fuck

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:46 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750901)
Expecting me to find a turbo is a mistake.
Expecting me to go read another game 1 hour 20 min from EoD is also a mistake.


We're approaching lolcat territory.

I also have crucial evidence.

I see exclamation marks.

based exclamation mark scumread

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:47 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750951)
Both T-Force and FG slot's voting Plop is :thinking:

he's right

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:48 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750955)
I mean, I was initially associating Plop to both FG and T-Force so, seeing both of them vote him implies that if Plop is a wolf, both T-Force/FG may have been town somewhat or he's getting bussed when there should be more options for wolves.

This is where I am, I think

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:50 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750962)
I think I'm joining on T-Force again because I'm having a huge disconnect on the Plop voters.

Unfortunately, Haku takes the wrong conclusion from this, and because he's confused he defaults back to "Plop is town because both T-Force and FG are voting him."

The more likely scenario is that Plop is wolf and both T-Force/FG are town, which makes that wagon pretty pure.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:54 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4751057)
What if sunfan is wanting Subaru gone to cut the dead weight and to keep Plop around due to Plop being the stronger partner. :thonk:

This is a weird post to make if he is wolf partners with Plop. Especially like 15min before EoD.

(Context: Sunfan pushing for a Subaru lynch)

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:56 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 12:58 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751509)
Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

This is the same problem I'm having

Every conclusion that I come to sounds so incredibly simple it's almost stupid to even believe

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:01 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I still have a lot of work to do--- gonna look directly at Plop's contributions now, but I feel pretty good about lynching Plop today. Current headspace: Plop/Freezin/YoshL in that order

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 01:04 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I should be making mental notes of who I should be blocking based off your stuff here.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749432)
I wanted to know where you were coming from to help make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your word choice. "Town is weird" makes it sound like Ema is separate from town, like she's saying "you townies" instead of "us townies," y'know what I mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4749489)
I get that its d0 but is this seriously a big deal to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749516)
I at least wanted to bring it up. Haku's responses to it seemed fine, though, so I'm off it now.

This is literally the beginning of the game. Sunfan/Plop unlikely to be W/W

There's no real incentive for wolf Sunfan to challenge wolf Plopadop this early for a weak push

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Moreover, Plop defending himself to Sunfan like this here also is not W/W

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:13 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749542)
That ule post came across as pretty townie to me. I feel like she'd be more self-conscious about going that deep into mechanics if she were a wolf (since "focusing too much on mechanics" is a popular wolf tell).

This post reads as TMI to me now. "Focusing too much on mechanics" is indeed a wolf tell... on FFR. Ulli has almost never played on this site so it's hard for me to believe that she would be aware of this meta. (P.S. She admits that the meta on her home site is totally different.)

The reason this is important is because, if I were in Plop's shoes here as a town, I would see the mechanics post and think, "she's focusing on mechanics. That's a wolf tell." because that's the most immediate response I'd have.

The telling part is that Plop REACHES this read but then flips it over, saying "ah! She's towny because her post is so obviously wolfy that it can't be wolfy!!" This is a literal example of WIFOM... and yet, Plop magically seems to arrive at the unintuitive "correct" answer of "Ulli is town!"

It's a very safe, easy move for Plop to make here, because it's a freebie read, because all he has to do is mentally invoke WIFOM and use the "contrarian" response. This is a very easy contrarian read for Plop to make, and it serves a dual purpose of making Plop seem like he's critically thinking about player alignment, but also saving his ass in case Ulli ends up lynched later.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:28 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
YoshL responds to Plop's weird Ulli read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749544)
I'm actually thinking on a little different lines here.

I went back and actually read the post, and the majority of it felt like common sense.

Like for example, the call to let up on any red checks should be pretty common sense given you read the potential blues and reds in the game, there's a lot of them that manipulate checks (assuming we have the alignment check in the game in the first place)

The one good point that was brought up was the final part regarding red miles, because I had forgotten about potential slightly-forced pushes on various players from the red miles role. I think my biggest issue though then becomes, why didn't they apply this to anything said in thread?

Like, thinking about it, i really really don't like how there's for some reason very random traction (no matter how small) on t-force lynch? i get that people aren't married to the idea, but when i said "gut tforce wolf" i wasn't expecting as much discussion around it as actually happened.

Basically, I don't like the mechanics post, because it's comboed with "very simple thoughts about setup", and "not applying mechanics thoughts to things actually happening in game"

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749553)
Hmm, I see your point. While I still think a wolf would be too self-conscious to make a post like that, I'll keep an eye out to see if her analysis eventually gets applied/incorporated into her reads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749558)
like plop says, i mostly want to see what they have to say later, because it's still not anything i'm 100% sold on

---
also, thank the ffr elementals for the downtime for extra phase time because god it looks like we needed it.

maybe will also need it for thanksgiving time too? *big shrug*

This has a very high chance of being wolf theater. It's hard to put into words, but when you see YoshL replying to reads from other players, especially in posts this long, you would expect to at least get some idea of how YoshL views Plop or vice versa. As an example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749562)
Also feeling a little wary at this mentality, because xiz is seeming to be a little more focused on who the best kill at this point in time is, rather than like... looking for more information to better inform votes

This is YoshL's immediate next post, a response to Xiz (who is town). Not only does he criticize the read, he immediately shades Xiz's mentality as wolfy. That is, not only is YoshL continuing to evaluate Ulli, the SUBJECT of the conversation, he is using the conversation as a way to generate reads on other players in the conversation.

Another example on the following page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749575)
I can't actually tell if shadow is speaking for real and mindmelding, or read my post, and tried to fake-generate a mindmeld, because that's some pretty similar wording lmao

Again, this is a READ on another player (who is town). Go back and read YoshL's long response to Plop's strange Ulli read.

YoshL makes it a point to disagree with Plop's interpretation, but the conversation with Plop never results in any development of a read in either direction. Because Plop is a wolf with YoshL.

Plop's response to YoshL's response is also EXTREMELY awkward and after that the conversation between them IMMEDIATELY stops. Plop's like, "OK, yeah, sure, I'll think about it." And that's it.

This isn't how players talk to each other. Especially not YoshL. He'd be weirded out by Plop's post, just like I am.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:39 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
To be more concise, maybe.

Wolf partners have a very hard time interacting with each other in thread. The reason is because, in the context of pushing an agenda, they have no reason to.

Towns interact with towns and wolves because they want to solve the game.
Wolves interact with towns because they need to trick town and push them to make mislynches.

Why do wolves need to interact with wolves? Because people will notice if they don't. So wolf-wolf communication in-thread is purely a MAINTENANCE task: it's just something you sometimes have to do. And, unlike the other cases, these conversations are necessarily fake, performative.

That's why it can really look stilted when two wolves talk to each other in thread. They're only doing it because they "have to." Plus, it's super hard! It can be harder to talk to your fellow wolves than it would be to talk to towns. As a rule of thumb, you rarely observe meaningful, compelling wolf dialogue, and many times you'll notice that some wolf pairs just flat-out do not talk to each other unless they have to.

YoshL at least took the initiative to respond to Plop's observation because he knows this. He knows that he has to talk to his partners or else he looks bad. The problem is, as I pointed out, it is clear that YoshL/Plop's interaction exists only for its own sake. Nothing changes as a result of this conversation. In fact, if you pay attention, YoshL's post actually talks past Plopadop. And Plopadop, in response, terminates the conversation, and they both move on like nothing happened.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:46 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I'm not nearly done to finishing but I 100% expect to see more of the same pattern here: Plop and/or YoshL staging useless conversations and then quickly dropping them to actually get shit done.

If I'm lucky, the third compadre is actually just Freezinice.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:50 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4749548)
reading last few pages im suspicious of sunfan, i feel like he gets super ambivalent about lynching people only when he rolls wolf.

i dont feel like digging up the really old games and combing thru them, its more of a gut read

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749555)
I had a similar thought cross my mind, but for now I'm chalking up the ambivalence to him thinking he's gonna miss EOD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749556)
i do understand the "not going to be in thread for eod" but i feel like the post is a little bit closer to trying to look like they're in game than anything else.

That, and "i'll be back hours after EoD", despite having paid attention to the setup and OP, thinking about it LMAO

These three posts all talking about Sunfan, and then YoshL shifts focus to Xiz, and Freezin and Plop don't continue the convo

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:58 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flashflash account (Post 4749565)
active players I don't feel great about:
haku, shadowgod, freezin, xiz, plop

less active players I feel mostly okay toward:
funnygurl, yoshl, raeko

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749572)
How come you don't feel good about freezin? And how do you feel about yoshl's more recent posts/activity? Also, which post was the red flag post you mentioned earlier?



I've got all I need!!



Plopadop. See you in court!!

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 01:58 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
DBP quick question for you:

Are you considering the posts and interactions from an emotional standpoint as well?

Like, for me, I get 0 emotion from YoshL when I read through his stuff

compared to maybe... We'll use Trevor as an example

Trevor (If we're town reading him) has a very dry and sarcastic tone which, if you happen to know the dude, you can pick up on

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:08 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
In case the very important video link didn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCm8h0M4umM

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:10 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4751522)
DBP quick question for you:

Are you considering the posts and interactions from an emotional standpoint as well?

Like, for me, I get 0 emotion from YoshL when I read through his stuff

compared to maybe... We'll use Trevor as an example

Trevor (If we're town reading him) has a very dry and sarcastic tone which, if you happen to know the dude, you can pick up on

Sometimes. YoshL is pretty hard to nail down on tone I think, except in rare cases.

I mentioned this earlier but whenever I read Trevor based on tone I think he's wolfing, so I'm trying to... not do that this time.

If I see interesting, authentic emotion I'll point it out, since I do still think it can be useful to analyze outbursts and such

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 02:15 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4750546)
I'm glad you think I'm using a meme quote. $2 says you also thought I was using the Michael Scott version of it whilst completely forgetting the origin of it. Dude, sometimes we just need to take a fuckin' shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4750547)
And if you want to stand on your pedestal with your finger in the air talking about why we need to look elsewhere, please go for it.

But this game thread currently shows 3 candidates regarded by most to be wolves, so why are you trying to distract from that.

Like these two posts, to me, signal that he's being a sarcastic asshole, and he's kind of annoyed

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 02:21 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Something I've been thinking of as I use this thread to just get thoughts off my mind:

IF we manage to hit two wolves and I somehow manage to block at LEAST one wolf kill, we're out of mylo

This means nothing right now, but a neat thing to be hopeful for

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:22 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4749681)
every townread that Yoshl is getting is marginally disrespectful to Yoshl's scum range

Freezin, you were there in the Sacred Stones game saying "if Yoshl is scum, we've lost to him." If you're just giving him a d0 read, fine

Xiz, you know your townread of Yoshl is far too strong, like you have to be aware of this

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749684)
Beat me to it.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone should always live in fear of yoshl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749690)
At the start of the game I was entertaining the possibility that haku/shadow are wolfing together, but I've cooled on that idea now. Some of that stemmed from shadow seeming different from when I played with him in the AC game. He seemed more agro/adversarial here, but as the phase has gone on he's been acting more and more like Eugene so I feel he's town now.

Freezin seems natural and legit in terms of tone, focus, analysis, etc etc, so I think he's town. Same goes for Xiz and sunfan, but I don't want to lean too heavily into townreading them until I see an EOD or two. Let's say I'm cautiously optimistic there.

Ulle I'm a little less certain on now. Gut still says town, but her last big post reminds me too much of how I (and I suppose roundbox as well) tend to wolf. I'm not sure where the line of "a wolf would be more cautious of posting wolf-style" and "this is a wolf posting wolf-style" is...

FFA I'm really torn on, and that's kinda where I've been focusing. I think in general his posts and pushes read wolfy, but then when I asked him those questions earlier his response was quick and cogent, making me think he actually believes what he's putting forward and doesn't need to consult his fake narrative to make sure his story lines up. For others who've played with him when he's a wolf, how good is he at thinking on his feet?

Plopadop:

* Engages in a fake conversation with YoshL, it ends immediately
* Asks FFA about his read on YoshL
* Makes a comment that "everyone should always live in fear of YoshL"
* Makes a big post with his thoughts about the game.
* Never mentions YoshL in it.
* Straddles the line between FFA and Ulli, both of who end up as wagons.


Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749691)
That's less of a reads list and more me trying to vocalize my thought process since freezin made me realize I haven't really been doing that, lol

So where exactly is YoshL in your thought process, given that you literally JUST said to "live in fear" of him?

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:29 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4749692)
alright, I wasn't expecting an exposť on this from you.

wrt mindset, I don't think you and I have really been on the same page, but to say that I "full on disagree with your mindset" would definitely be going too far.

Maybe part of this is the fact that you wolfed with Yoshl in Sacred Stones (where he was self-admittedly rusty) rather than were forced to play town against him, but I believe in my heart that Yoshl would answer my question of "Is what you said to me firmly within your scum range?" with the answer of "yes, it is." Now, he might not do this, because fuck sunfan, but I do believe that he has done nothing that should be clearing. Yoshl doesn't know how to not be a "vocally towny player [prodding people's responses.]"



I can sympathize with the mislynch bit, at least.



Go for it, hold your ground, buy 15 AR-15s and unload all of them into the air.

I'm not calling Yoshl scummy. My read on Yoshl is that he is on the signups list, and has a d0 pass from me. My point is that Yoshl can absolutely be mafia here. If your read is just a d0 pass, then we're closer than I thought we were on this read, but yours seems to have a very weak reason for justification, and you seem to be insisting that it is very strong.

The actual moment itself that you're talking about, yeah, it doesn't feel scummy to me, but that's about where that read ends for me. Even if Yoshl were scummy today, its not really the person I want to but heads with today (in fact, its the last person I would've tried to try to push a kill on [regardless of my alignment] today pre-signups, with Freezin being a close second and Haku being a virtual inevitability).

If you insist on the read, fine, I think its not a damn good read, and can easily be wrong. You haven't found Yoshl town for the right reasons, but yes, Yoshl has plenty

This conversation with Xiz also doesn't make a lot of sense if sunfan is paired with YoshL. There is 0 reason for sunfan to murder a strong townread on his wolf partner on D0. YoshL was never in trouble. A wolf sunfan literally doesn't even have to respond when Xiz says YoshL is strong town. Let it ride. It only helps you. The rest of the thread is too busy focusing on FFA and Ulli anyway.

According to the Wolf Matrix, sunfan and YoshL both have each other as 2nd-place wolves. With all of this in mind, as well as my past posts tonight, I'm willing to completely reject a sunfan/YoshL wolf pairing.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 02:34 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Can I also point out, DBP

The bolded text that you have for Ulle, is so contradictory

1. Plop says he's not sure, but says she's town on gut, but ALSO says that this is how he (Plop) usually plays as a wolf.

So he's gone up and down the town/wolf scale in one sentence here and uses self-meta to G U T READ town


It actually took my reading that section 4 times before I clicked those in together

Am I over analyzing that? Maybe.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 02:35 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Hindsight says contradictory was the incorrect word to use

I have no idea how to describe what I'm getting at here:

Best guess would be "It's everywhere" but just settles for town

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:42 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749846)
thread catchup stream of consciousness


i don't think i'm being scum read by anyone in the game which feels nice and not nice because i was going to see if there would be anything to glean out of if there was some split

thoughts as i'm catching up with the thread

@Ulle big post #344 http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=344
mechanics discussing will always have the input of wolves able to skew strategies, and be privvy to strat busting

Haku's long page feels horrible and is like a regression back towards null from towny early. huge tower posts where quotes are saying more than the "analysis" just feels so bad, and it's mostly just re-iterating what happened in the thread without treading too much new ground. At most, haku offers up small commentary reads, but there's not much to actually focus on.

mellon and freezin have been generally null for me, i don't think i have enough from mellon's posts to really have a solid read yet.
freezinice i don't think (to be completely honest) i have spent enough time trying to read yet this game, because i haven't seen anything jump out to me yet that makes me lean freezin one way or the other

I think i'm feeling fine with plop this phase, at least based on general problem solving attempts (e.g. #387 http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=387)

sunfan's grilling of xiz that follows actually doesn't feel too good with me, but it's unfortunately one of those things that i can't really put my finger on, some strange cordiality in thread that makes me feel weird.

T-Force describing FFA (#398 http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=398) is literally how I think of ffa, and to be completely honest, I've been doing mostly what i can to steer clear of saying that myself, because I have already large sus on ffa for leaning me town early game which feels wrong lmao

sunfan feels better from the dbp vote, it's more along the lines of what i was thinking, which i posted briefly later in thread.

feeling out shadow still, and at the very least, tone feels natural. the foot down @ ffa (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=405) feels like something they'd say based on the limited posts and discord messages i've read from them.

Haku #425 (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=425) fg null, with questionable reads? unsure if i missed fg reads at all, or if haku's making this up.
His following post is also really strange, because i don't see the logic jump from (Ulle/T-Force are sort of tied by fate in this coin flip timeline.) to (leaning to vote Ulle in order to indirectly solve T-Force/Sunfan.)
#436 haku also says (I can hypothetically town read FFA/T-Force/Ulle/Yoshl, but im playing with fire.) in his consolidated reads list which is even more confusing

[EDITOR'S NOTE: PLOP QUOTE ADDED FOR CONTEXT]
Ule's only substantial read was a townread of yoshl for townhunting, and yoshl's biggest post (IIRC) was our discussion about her big mechanics post. While he casted shade on her, the conclusion was we'd wait to see whether she incorporates her analysis later on. I could see it as a wolf coaching/distancing thing.
-ED.

(from plop)
will clarify that because i've never played w/ ulle or really even read anything they've ever posted from any previous games, it's more of a legitimately unsure type situation given that there was i think like 1-2 people who said they're very mechanics heavy

-----

(i'm at post 480, but i want to get my thoughts in if people respond or other stuff happens before i can finish catching up)

Some more YoshL/Plop stuff.

Regarding the Plop quote in here:

Quote:

Ule's only substantial read was a townread of yoshl for townhunting, and yoshl's biggest post (IIRC) was our discussion about her big mechanics post. While he casted shade on her, the conclusion was we'd wait to see whether she incorporates her analysis later on. I could see it as a wolf coaching/distancing thing.
Dude, you literally agreed with him and dropped the subject--- why now all of a sudden do you suspect coaching?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749873)
Feeling less paranoid about yoshl after reading that analysis post, and I like the unique trains of thought FG has going on. Haku does seem more committed to his reads than usual, but there's still the usual fluctuations there too, I think, just less than normal.

Where is this paranoia coming from? You've like never mentioned it???

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:47 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749758)
Couple thoughts from re-reading:

Don't think FG/Ule are W/W, but Yoshl/Ule being W/W wouldn't surprise me.

Raeko's iso is mostly responding to pings and casting shade. I don't see much town-hunting or town-reading going on. Seems suspicious... Raeko, do you have any townreads or townleans?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4749760)
Why wouldn't it surprise you? Just out of curiosity.

Also what separates FG from YoshL in these two pair ups?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749767)
Ule's only substantial read was a townread of yoshl for townhunting, and yoshl's biggest post (IIRC) was our discussion about her big mechanics post. While he casted shade on her, the conclusion was we'd wait to see whether she incorporates her analysis later on. I could see it as a wolf coaching/distancing thing.

For FG, in her iso she defends ule and brings her up at least a few times, at one point joking that they're wolfing together. Don't think wolf FG would be that focused on a teammate, especially with so few posts (unless it were T-Force, of course).

Some context for the YoshL quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749873)
Feeling less paranoid about yoshl after reading that analysis post, and I like the unique trains of thought FG has going on.

What exactly about YoshL's analysis post eased your paranoia? Where did this paranoia even come from? You sounded pretty dispassionate when you said, "I wouldn't be surprised if Ulle/YoshL were W/W". It didn't really seem to bother you that much, because literally as soon as you say that you move on from it and interrogate Raeko about something completely unrelated.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:51 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749924)
I think this is the first concrete post of t-force that i don't like, because it feels a little more like a gross oversimplification of why people (at least, to me) want to vote Ulle here, and it's much more than "not having enough time to play and catch up with thread", and generalization makes me swing tforce way into wolf side. While I actually think this doesn't necessarily tie him with ulle, I think it's much more indicative of a "not concerned with solving the game" attitude.

Like, this post does a lot in calling people out for doing something, but it also doesn't do a lot in taking a stance of "behavior is wolfy, or null, or towny"

This will likely be relevant when studying YoshL and T-Force.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:51 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749918)
Interesting... If he's less aggressive as town then that'd line up with his game here...

I don't know what to think!

fake

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 02:57 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750555)
Couple questions as I continue rereading:

1) When freezin plays town, is he the type of player who tries to act townie for the benefit of other townies, or is he the type of player who expects his towniness to speak for itself?

2) When yoshl plays scum, does he have any sort of modus operandi on which types of players he pushes to get mislynched or which sorts of wagons he joins/creates?

It's harder to directly tie Plop to Freezin, but it still makes more sense than Plop/sunfan and Plop/T-Force at the moment

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 03:20 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750710)
Opposite. Good as in he's off to a townie start.

(Re: Subaru)

This is another "devil's advocate"/contrarian take, one which he rides to the very end of the phase. In fact, if we look at the final votecounts:

Quote:

D0 final votecount:

flashflash account (4) - fatfuck42, DaBackpack, Shadow_God_10, TWGma
Ulleabhara (4) - Xiz, FreezinIce, mellonxcollie, Funnygurl555
TWGma (2) - YoshL, Hakulyte
DaBackpack (1) - the sun fan

------

Not Voting (2): flashflash account, Ulleabhara


D1 final votecount:

SubaruPoptart (6) - Shadow_God_10, FreezinIce, TWGma, DaBackpack, Hakulyte, the sun fan
TWGma (3) - fatfuck42, YoshL, SubaruPoptart
fatfuck42 (1) - mellonxcollie
We have both Plop and YoshL on a tiny D1 T-Force wagon. This makes perfect sense from Plop's perspective, since he knows that Subaru is doing a horrible job defending himself, and that most of town is going to ??? him and FG's slot--- after all, the main topic of discussion had been T-Force/FG at that point. Plop, knowing this T-Force/FG split was gonna be the theme of EoD, took the "contrarian" position: the unintuitive one that "Subaru is town, guys!"

And yet--- knowing full well that Subaru was going to be lynched, he would easy peasy be able to enter this phase (MYLO) with a perfect mislynch alibi. "I've been sus of T-Force, I even voted for him yesterday! Can we please just kill him?" It's likely that YoshL did this too, in order to give himself a free ride through MYLO.

Of course, it would be pretty weird if T-Force was the unanimous suspect today, so there is a bit of variation in the Wolf Matrix--- YoshL has T-Force as a 3, Plop only has T-Force as a 1. But despite this, because of voting patterns and breadcrumbing, both Plop and YoshL have absolutely plausible alibis as to why they'd be OK with a T-Force lynch.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 03:23 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Another stray observation, from looking at the votecounts: Plopadop is the first vote on both of his wagons, which on the surface would indicate leadership and confidence, but in practice really reveals a lack of panic or concern during CFDs. He also has a proclivity for hard defending the competing wagon targets, in a way that doesn't really feel justified. (A mismatch between "low effort", "low panic", and "high read confidence")

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 03:33 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750788)
Where's everyone's head at as far as EOD goes? For me, I can't imagine I'll vote outside of my wolf leans (freezin, yoshl, t-force).

Yesterday, he lists has wolf leans as Freezin, YoshL, and T-Force. Of course, based on his analysis post from that phase, he had Freezin and YoshL both in "light wolf"-tier and T-Force in "wolf" tier... conveniently. We know that he ended up voting for T-Force last phase, but if we look at the Wolf Matrix again:



Now FREEZIN is most sus, and T-Force is LEAST sus. This is seemingly incongruent, so I'm gonna try to see if/where he justifies this switch. (Or, he can justify it after reading this :) )

My gut is telling me that, since Plop has been playing a completely contrarian game, his job on the wolf team is to make it seem like T-Force isn't the de facto sacrificial lamb. I imagine his job is to push back a little bit against voting T-Force, and instead being contrarian and pushing Freezin first. Knowing, of course, that the rest of us wanted T-Force mega-dead, so he would "compromise" on T-Force, since he still has those T-Force lynch breadcrumbs.

Plop's mistake, however, was not realizing that this morning (IRL), sunfan would pop in and ALSO list Freezin as his highest scum. Freezin actually has a pretty good chance of dying this phase--- at least, before I popped in with this massive fucking expose on Plop himself, hopefully. It would be pretty funny to watch Plop actually retract his hard Freezin scumlean and move it to T-Force, to make the T-Force mislynch a more certain thing, but I digress.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 03:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
This EOD is going to be sheer. Fucking. Chaos.

I will ready the lube

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 03:54 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4750750)
smacked with irl til now, and even now i should be starting to cook

to address sunfan specifically:
saying "yoshl is playing like a natural town, and i don't have anything to point out therefore because yoshl can act this way as scum, scumread."
sure PoE exists with people playing towny, but at the same time, the reasoning feels like garbage tier lazy and it's not something i expect coming from sunfan especially.
i also agree with freezin in that you're playing pretty safe, in not actually giving concrete scumreads. out of your PoE, it wasn't that you had a specific person who you had most scummy, but you've fallen back on the "well i wanted people to talk about freezin" from what it looks like. no actual commitment to the hunt of scum tbh

post #1081 plop says haku is making sense right now, and i would very hard disagree, because his reads progression is literally nonexistent from what i can glean.

post #1088 I actually like freezin's reaction to sunfan, mostly because it's pretty heavily mirroring what i'm thinking tbh. I think freezin town here 9 times out of 10, don't think he comes back and picks a fight with sunfan like that if he's W and gets a pressure vote - he's actually looking into sunfan's actions and case and addressing that fact - that sunfan doesn't seem to actually have any cases towards his non-PoE, and is trying to push worlds that aren't the main ones being discussed at the time.

Trevor's #1136 post i'd like to comment on a bit, because i feel like there's a couple good points, but they amount to stuff that i think could either be NAI or wolf leaning given the context.
The first section where he mentions fg's vote on plop is a weak, because i don't think that really amounts to "distancing" in any traditional sense, throwing a vote onto plop at EoD.
The hindsight section is actually throwing me for a loop because even earlier in the game sunfan was like "hey my bones are a rattlin we're gonna hit green" and there wasn't too much said about that.
I don't think plop's post that t-force is referring to is actually even bad, because i think most people were on that same mindset of voting ulle d0, so plop isn't even wrong there.

I also think that his analysis on Haku being town is super weak. "It would be very hard to keep up that facade for so long" is more or less just an assumption that can't really be backed up with any in thread evidence - none of the actual analyzing done was spent on what they were actually saying, or how haku's reads and opinions were developing (i still can't follow haku's progressions lmao)

#1171 - one of the few good Tforce posts this game i think but doesn't really change the overarching wolfy vibe tbh

(intermission) throughout thread, I personally *still* don't have a good grasp on mellon, i'm not reading her on either side, i've seen stuff like "she's more assertive this game" and a couple other things, but if someone can explain like more in-depth why they're reading mellon the way they are, i'd appreciate

#1210 - plop says

which again is literally what i feel, and i don't think i grasp even plop's reasoning other than "i was wrong last time" i think?


#1234 - ok never mind actually lmao i think i remember now someone pointed out earlier the mellon advice and this actually feels so towny, i was thinking the same thing as haku started back up with the three wolf world build
still, to me it feels like such a weird feeling that i feel like i know, but i don't actually know, and am still wondering if anyone else can like, elucidate this kind of thing still

stopped right before plop wall, will continue with that. sunfan claims that "Yoshl, Force, Freezin & plop" are part of his non poe, and actually reading back through his post #1073, that raeko read is so gas filled that it'd blow away with a fart like, damn why is she not part of PoE when she fits your criteria, especially in that no-one really has been talking about her? again looking back, it feels super contrived and not actually a quality PoE

brb corn

Big YoshL post. Bolded are references to Plop and Freezin. Note the difference between how he frames Plop and Freezin against how he frames sunfan and T-Force.

He quotes plop several times here but NOT ONCE takes a moment to comment on his alignment. Remarkable, still, because early in the post he "hard disagrees" with Plop's take on Haku, yet later on in the post he quotes a plop post that is "literally how [YoshL] feels". And STILL, there's no real attempt at solving Plop... and afterwards, any Plop-related lines of reasoning go "poof."

If this sounds familiar it should, because it's the same exactly fucking pattern I described involving YoshL+Plop's conversation about Ulli. Plop made a bad take about Ulli, YoshL entered to say "actually I strongly disagree!" and then... nothing happens. At best, YoshL has said that he's "fine" with Plop based on a general problem-solving mindset, which is pretty special, because nobody else in this game has gotten such a free ride from YoshL based solely on problem-solving ethic.

Plop definitely isn't the only person with displaying that ethic this game, but for some reason you've been holding those other players to different standards of conduct so you can conveniently ignore plop altogether.

----------

His overview of Freezin, by comparison, isn't as obviously disingenuous, but you can still observe a different standard of "solving" when he describes literally anybody else in this post.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:01 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750753)
huge fucking wagonomics post

T-Force is firmly in the "bad" category, and is the only one besides Shadow living there, yet T-Force isn't even in Freezin's top 3 this phase.

Maybe his progression is actually natural, that's for us to figure out.

I will say on average that if Freezin is wolfing with Plop and YoshL then they're doing a pretty good job of hiding that fact. It's harder to find any specific connection or interaction to nail him to the cross. With that said, I really, really don't think sunfan can be a third wolf... T-Force most likely can't be with Plopadop... and Raeko is a really hard sell, maybe it's possible she's a wolf, but that's a question for like literally F3 or whatever.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:04 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellon_collie (Post 4750775)
Also something about my wolf game that you might have forgotten sunfan but I tend to make longer posts vs when I am town

I notice YoshL doing that rn

true

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750804)
I feel you. I'm grappling with that a bit as well, but I'm still feeling optimistic.

So if you don't see any improvement, you're okay lynching there?

"Just to make sure, you're OK with lynching my town read if he doesn't get any better, right?

Why? Oh, no reason."

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 04:08 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellon_collie (Post 4751390)
I don't like Plop and YoshL most. This is my feeling at the moment before re-reading or analyzing anything since the haku flip

I will go through slowly and try to figure out concrete reasons for my feelings

Dropping this as a reminder for Raeko, because she tends to forget things sometimes!

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:13 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4750822)
I like the work here, and I would agree with the conclusion of one wolf on each section (trains vs. non), but I'd also wonder if there'd be one on each:
one on FFA, one on Ulle, and one non.

To borrow from Freezin:

[big fucking wagonomics post, T-Force flavored]

Yeah, this post looks COMPLETELY redundant if you imagine T-Force and Freezin as wolves together.

Freezin makes a massive fucking wagonomics post, then T-Force comes in to say, "hey! I like this post, but I actually think my version is more accurate!" and does the same fucking thing.

It... really, REALLY feels like a poor use of time for T-Force and the wolf team to nearly fucking duplicate Freezin's work if they're working together. That would signal a complete failure of wolf communication that is kind of hard to imagine, ESPECIALLY if you know that T-Force is a major scumlean for the majority of the thread... You'd imagine that T-Force and Freezin would, in wolf chat, collaboratively write-up a single wagonomics perspective that suits BOTH of their agendas. That way you can give T-Force time and energy to actually, you know, defend himself for the remainder of the phase.

This might sound like a really nitpicky thing, and maybe it is, but if I'm potentially worried about one of my wolf partners getting lynched today, the LAST thing I'm going to let him do is waste time with a duplicate post like that. The most important thing is to let him focus on not fucking dying instead.

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:16 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
pretty much caught up

i thought about making a post refuting/explaining all the nitpicks people had with me but decided that would most be for my own ego so nah

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:16 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750850)
>1st List in order of wolfiest to least:

Sunfan > yoshi = haku

>2nd list in order of wolfiest to least

Plop = Subaru > Tforce > Shadow


Probably not lynching outside of sunfan / plop / subaru. Also dont think tforce deserves to die today

OK, this jives a bit more with his current reads.

Freezin, would you be comfortable lynching Plop instead of sunfan today?

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:20 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750859)
How come?



The second paragraph still holds up. Whether you're going for the volume clear or not, you're still announcing that volume clearing yourself was something you considered either doing or not doing.

Hmm, personally I didn't think it was too spicy since I've become desensitized to seeing people argue with ffa, but I understand what you mean now. I took spicy to mean, like, hot take, not fired up.

In response to some Freezin posts.

Yeah, the dynamic between Freezin and Plop feels quite different than the dynamic between YoshL and Plop. I don't exactly know what this means practically, but it's weighing on my mind a little bit.

I'm still, like, 50% sure Freezin is the third wolf, but I would feel better with some more "gotcha!"s, I guess.

sunfan, if you're town, your job is to prove that Freezin is a wolf on his own terms if I'm not able to link him to the others. I really would not advocate a Freezin lynch today, but he really DOES need to be solved if we want to completely win this game.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:22 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750865)
cause hes efforting p hard and i have better scumleans

like you

Re: Plop.

You'd have no problem lynching Plop today, right, Freezin?

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:23 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
id rather kill sunfan and yoshi before plop if at all possible

the only place where i think i could be wrong is tforce/plop. Im pretty sure plop is the wolf in that pairing but im obviously not 100% certain. Since they are never wolfing together in my mind and im ride or die on that read, it makes sense to kill my 100% scumreads before visiting that choice. I guess im all in on raeko town too but im ok with that.

if we're lucky we can get a save on someone dying in the night from dbp/shadow and get out of mylo, which gives myself room to be wrong when im choosing between tforce and plop near the end

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:24 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
oh i didnt read your latest posts

one sec let me see if i need to add anything

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 04:24 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751547)
pretty much caught up

i thought about making a post refuting/explaining all the nitpicks people had with me but decided that would most be for my own ego so nah

So let's say you're town for a second here

To me, what you're saying is you'd rather just lie down and die

That's basically throwing the game

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 04:25 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:25 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
funny that the thing you want me to address was what i made a post about

id be ok with it but i would prefer sunfan/yoshi first

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:25 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4751553)
So let's say you're town for a second here

To me, what you're saying is you'd rather just lie down and die

That's basically throwing the game

????????

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:26 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750877)
my last post partially covered this but you feel kind of fake and not invested. And i think you deserve scrutiny and pressure because while youve gotten some of the former i dont think youve gotten any of the later and i want to see you squirm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750878)
plop

time to be the change i want to see

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750881)
I'm not killing plop today
he can be a wolf, but his solving has been the best out of anyone's today, I'd say (potentially beaten by DBP)

I guess that;s what DBP's early activity was for; he knew he wouldn't be here at EOD so this is what we got

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750887)
maybe im getting too heated here

Freezin moves his vote to Subaru after sunfan, HIS TOP WOLF, suggests that Plop isn't on the table.

"maybe im getting too heated here"
I think I mentioned this before but this reads like a breadcrumb to copout of a Plop lynch in case it actually gains momentum.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 04:27 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751556)
????????

I guess I was reading what you were saying incorrectly.

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:30 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751557)
Freezin moves his vote to Subaru after sunfan, HIS TOP WOLF, suggests that Plop isn't on the table.

"maybe im getting too heated here"
I think I mentioned this before but this reads like a breadcrumb to copout of a Plop lynch in case it actually gains momentum.

really had nothing to do with sunfan. I dont think i even noticed what sunfan said

i was just trying to create pressure on plop for reactions and was out for his blood for what felt at the time like the wrong reason

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:36 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4751554)
Unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly

to clarify what i meant since i feel like i left u in the cold with a bunch of ???s:

i dont feel like its worth getting bogged down explaining every little thing that someone finds in their progressions thru my posts even if it makes me look bad. Unless its a direct point they feel is important enough that they ask me in real time or its something so egregious it bears immediate correction.

ive tried fighting that battle and not only is it tiring as fuck but its largely pointless

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
like i corrected plop on his incorrect read on me yesterday in his big post.

i felt like that was actually a big thing worth bringing up and it still didnt make any difference cause he just doubled down.

plenty of other examples going back, not just that one.

Iono if everyone plays like that but i feel like its a natural progression of me as a TWG player and a lesson that was not that easy to learn

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:39 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4750912)
plop megapost comments:



I don't like these reasons. First off, being cautious of me shouldn't be a read to mindmeld off of
Second off, ule lynch yielding no info and discussing role mechanics has been talked about already and isn't a read to mindmeld off of
Noticing people looking past freezin is also not a read to mindmeld off of.

more or less, those aren't opinions.



If you're still caught up on me being annoyed at sunfan, it's purely because the *ONLY* argument that's been cast by him is "oop he's not POE, and he can do this as a wolf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and like, even from reviewing thread, still hasn't pushed forwards anything. you're pushing a narrative where i'm upset at "hey you should examine yoshl as scum", where it's more of "yoshl can do this as scum so therefore be careful!!!1!!"
I don't really understand your xiz point, and yes, Haku making a fuckton of posts in thread that are one liners really doesn't influence me in the slightest, because the quality of the thoughts doesn't cut it.

I think the worst points of plop's post is generally putting way too much faith in meta. Like call me out all you want, but "this person flip flops their reads all the time as town" is not a valid reason for me to say "yeah sure he's town", disregarding actual game info. Haku's actual post history still is pretty firmly wolfy to me - it's actually not hard to sit in thread and throw out a bunch of worlds that don't include you because you know they're wrong, and keep the narrative away from you. It looks more like you're still sitting on earlier game info if you think that soley a commentary post in d0 is the cornerstone of my reads.


[moves on to other shit]

Part 2 of YoshL's megapost.

Three strikes and you're out, buddy. You've invested all this time, all this effort into responding to Plopadop's megapost-- specifically, where he calls you out-- and even though you seem to disagree with almost everything he says, there's no semblance of an actual read on Plopadop himself here. Why does this keep happening?

The rest of your megapost has --actual reads-- in it, but for some fucking reason the literal first half of the post has nothing in the way of actual reads towards the person you're supposedly directly responding to.

It's because it's a fucking performance. Plop needed to create SOME tension between the two of you, and, naturally, you needed to respond to it. But here's the thing, and it's a thing I think wolves fall for a lot when theatering in thread...

If you create "conflict" between yourself and a wolf partner, you will have a natural tendency to resolve that "conflict" in a neat, tidy way, with a sparkly bow on top. Ah, Plop had a scum read on me? My response will completely sate him, or at least get him to stop talking about me. That sense of lingering doubt and tension will dissipate, and then we can both move on to other topics.

But this isn't how townies usually operate.

There is almost never any complete conflict resolution between townies and wolves in TWG. If I have a scumread on you, and you respond to it, even if it's pretty convincing, I'm not gonna just "drop" it. I'll still feel that insecurity, that "what if". I'll probably bring your name up later, or I might even continue the conversation then and there.

You're not gonna feel comfortable as town, so when I see that your interactions with Plop seem to try to emulate that feeling of "initial conflict->resolution", I'm gonna really ask myself if you're totally satisfied with that resolution. Townies rarely are, or at the very least, it takes time to change your perspective on another person. If you respond to a post, don't add anything of your own to the conflict, I dunno, maybe to actually probe about Plop's alignment? It's gonna look like theatrical denouement.

And that theatrical denouement is exactly what I keep seeing with you and Plop's interactions.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:41 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751559)
really had nothing to do with sunfan. I dont think i even noticed what sunfan said

i was just trying to create pressure on plop for reactions and was out for his blood for what felt at the time like the wrong reason

did it bother you that sunfan also didn't want plop on the table? that should reinforce the notion that sunfan and plop are on a team, right? why did you decide to settle on Subaru instead, knowing that sunfan had him in his sights?

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:44 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751560)
to clarify what i meant since i feel like i left u in the cold with a bunch of ???s:

i dont feel like its worth getting bogged down explaining every little thing that someone finds in their progressions thru my posts even if it makes me look bad. Unless its a direct point they feel is important enough that they ask me in real time or its something so egregious it bears immediate correction.

ive tried fighting that battle and not only is it tiring as fuck but its largely pointless

I can understand this. My 6-hour (jesus christ) thread rampage probably feels like gish-galloping, in the sense that I've literally thrown dozens of arguments into the thread at once. I'm not gonna force you to refute all of them. I will, however, force you to directly confront certain allegations when the time comes.

If you want something concrete to latch on to, you can focus on selling me on sunfan being a wolf, and also more detail on why he takes precedence over Plop this phase.

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:48 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751563)
did it bother you that sunfan also didn't want plop on the table? that should reinforce the notion that sunfan and plop are on a team, right? why did you decide to settle on Subaru instead, knowing that sunfan had him in his sights?

at the time that was happening i didnt notice that sunfan had his vote on subaru. I just remember feeling completely cold on plop at about 15m till eod and circled back to subaru.

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:51 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
im definitely not the type of person who puts stock on interactions and posturing before the vote unless im specifically baiting for it because (probably erroneously) it defaults in my mind to "Oh thats just theatre or they have their own plan"

its usually during wagon analysis that i pick that stuff up

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:51 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roundbox (Post 4750917)


Votecount:
fatfuck42 (3) - TWGma, FreezinIce, SubaruPoptart
TWGma (3) - DaBackpack, fatfuck42, the sun fan
the sun fan (2) - YoshL, Hakulyte
SubaruPoptart (1) - Shadow_God_10


------

Not Voting (1): mellonxcollie

Today's theme:

I keep forgetting this, but there was a time when Plop was actually in danger of dying yesterday. When I'm awake tomorrow (...today...) I might do a bigger dive to see what exactly "saved" him.

For reference:

Quote:

D1 final votecount:

SubaruPoptart (6) - Shadow_God_10, FreezinIce, TWGma, DaBackpack, Hakulyte, the sun fan
TWGma (3) - fatfuck42, YoshL, SubaruPoptart
fatfuck42 (1) - mellonxcollie


DaBackpack 11-29-2020 04:53 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751566)
im definitely not the type of person who puts stock on interactions and posturing before the vote unless im specifically baiting for it because (probably erroneously) it defaults in my mind to "Oh thats just theatre or they have their own plan"

its usually during wagon analysis that i pick that stuff up

Sure, but when I'm rereading the thread and notice specifically weird interactions I'm gonna point them out.

Especially if it's the same weird interaction three fucking times across 72 hours

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 04:53 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751564)
I can understand this. My 6-hour (jesus christ) thread rampage probably feels like gish-galloping, in the sense that I've literally thrown dozens of arguments into the thread at once. I'm not gonna force you to refute all of them. I will, however, force you to directly confront certain allegations when the time comes.

If you want something concrete to latch on to, you can focus on selling me on sunfan being a wolf, and also more detail on why he takes precedence over Plop this phase.

well the biggest reason i want sunfan dead before plop is the one i already mention. I realize that only makes sense from my point of view though and im not sure how i could explain it better than what i did.

they are both wolves so i dont really care which order they die in, just i feel like i have a bigger chance being wrong on plop than sunfan

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 05:02 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4751565)
at the time that was happening i didnt notice that sunfan had his vote on subaru. I just remember feeling completely cold on plop at about 15m till eod and circled back to subaru.

---------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750931)
if your so sure subaru is a hit why dont you put your money where your vote where your mouth is and vote there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750935)
good advice
subaru

i'm not sure how much longer I plan on staying up, we'll see I guess

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4750936)
He did vote Subaru for a while...

The wagon didn't get any traction, sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750942)
oh i didnt notice when he moved his vote off me

whoops

You were at least aware that Sunfan had Subaru as his top lynch target, right? And that he was hard-defending Plop, and was willing to lynch T-Force just to save Plop?

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 05:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I need to sleep. It's 6am.

I do feel pretty strongly about Plop being a hit, with YoshL coming in 2nd place. The third wolf is exactly within Freezin/Sunfan. The good news (for me) is that I'll almost certainly be nightkilled before I have to make that decision, haha...

If time permits, I'd still rather make headway in that direction though. Especially if it will help Raeko and T-Force moving forward.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 05:07 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
By the way. If I'm totally right about Plop and YoshL. I deserve a fucking trophy. Hall of Fame me, motherfuckers

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 05:10 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Garfield is dead. And we fucking killed him

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 05:15 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751570)
---------------------------------









You were at least aware that Sunfan had Subaru as his top lynch target, right? And that he was hard-defending Plop, and was willing to lynch T-Force just to save Plop?

yeah i noticed he was shaking his fist at subaru, but at the time it did not mentally register he had voted for him. When i was replying to shadows post it was from the understand "Oh he left a vote on subaru for a while but unvoted or something"

not my finest moment of thread reading comprehension

thats why i was giving sunfan shit about the last min subaru vote today when i first came to the thread, because in my mind it was a last minute vote at eod

In reality it was just me completely blanking out

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 05:15 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
understanding*

FreezinIce 11-29-2020 05:23 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
tbh looking back that was a pretty cringe eod for me

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 06:10 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Good news: I'm off for 3 days

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 06:15 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I'm not too focused on who I'm lynching today

My brain is more focused on how I'm going to pull a save out of my ass and keep DBP alive.

If I can pull that off, we should be in a better position to squeak this out

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 06:18 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I know, I know

Worry about that when it happens

But I'm sure we've got at least one hit here today


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