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-   -   TWG 194 - Game Thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=151853)

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 06:55 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Why is MML town for you ?
Why is DBP wolf for you ?

If this is a T/T thunderdome, the game is very close of being over.

Duskfall 05-4-2020 06:56 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4729652)
If you're voting DBP knowing the entire team could be outside of DBP/MML/me/you then you're pmuch in trouble already.

It's kind of obvious that DBP will want support to get a vote on someone this phase because it's like exactly what everyone should try to be doing right now.

There's is one exact team that does have any of you and it's

Jessie/bolth/Wolfe

And you could say that for any player regardless, at the end of the day you have to pick who you wolf read and vote saying

"Oh god another wolf team is possible" is getting you nowhere, I believe it is dbp which rules out that as a possible team

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 06:59 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Last phase, Mikey looked like he was scum reading both DBP and MML.

I have reasons to believe that this is false and that if one of them is scum, it would be MML.

The problem is that this world leads to a no kill scenario which leads to a ton of contradictions.

So, I don't understand how you get somewhere with this if you're town reading me and not coming to the conclusion that I'm exactly the wolf roleblocker and got blocked by MML.

If our little party of DBP/MML/you/me are all town, this is a no kill scenario with exactly Jessie/Bolth/ShadoWolfe.

Duskfall 05-4-2020 07:00 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4729653)
Why is MML town for you ?
Why is DBP wolf for you ?

If this is a T/T thunderdome, the game is very close of being over.

I've answered this a few times and every time I answer I'm gonna get a little less detailed but

Mml: frustrating player but feels like he's genuinely trying to find the correct vote and play for town here even if I disagree with him and how he goes about his play

Dbp: is attempting to force a lynch and comes in with a specific mind to just shade me and scout for potential votes on me rather than try solve slots

So the main difference between them is mml is trying to solve whereas dbp is trying to force a mislynch, showing dbp has a much scummier agenda

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 07:01 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
In your world, I'd probably go like DBP/Jessie/ShadoWolfe with Bolth having slightly weaker equity due to MML block.

Duskfall 05-4-2020 07:04 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Personally I think bolth has been bad all game and have said that before so I'd definitely be looking at him tomorrow

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 07:05 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
I need to sleep. I don't want to mess up my sleep schedule any further. It's 8 am here.

Duskfall 05-4-2020 07:05 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4729655)
Last phase, Mikey looked like he was scum reading both DBP and MML.

I have reasons to believe that this is false and that if one of them is scum, it would be MML.

The problem is that this world leads to a no kill scenario which leads to a ton of contradictions.

So, I don't understand how you get somewhere with this if you're town reading me and not coming to the conclusion that I'm exactly the wolf roleblocker and got blocked by MML.

If our little party of DBP/MML/you/me are all town, this is a no kill scenario with exactly Jessie/Bolth/ShadoWolfe.

The cornerstone of our disagreement is on mml which sends our worldbuilding into different directions I think

Bolth mannn 05-4-2020 07:46 AM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Iím going to sleep, Iíll hopefully be somewhat present in the hours before EoD

ShadoWolfe 05-4-2020 12:20 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
well its been 6 hours and neither DBP or Dusk has been piled on, so I think one of em has to be a wolf.

Normally I'm not one for the "omg no one hammered" line of thinking, but it's relevant here because if it was T/T then, given claims, all scum would have to do is pile onto DBP, roleblock and kill MML, and then instawin

ShadoWolfe 05-4-2020 12:22 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
I guess maybe they're still waiting for someone to wake up or check in, but its worth noting

Duskfall 05-4-2020 12:26 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4729668)
well its been 6 hours and neither DBP or Dusk has been piled on, so I think one of em has to be a wolf.

Normally I'm not one for the "omg no one hammered" line of thinking, but it's relevant here because if it was T/T then, given claims, all scum would have to do is pile onto DBP, roleblock and kill MML, and then instawin

It is mylo not lylo so wolves actually aren't able to rush hammer yet btw

leetic 05-4-2020 12:27 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4729668)
well its been 6 hours and neither DBP or Dusk has been piled on, so I think one of em has to be a wolf.

Normally I'm not one for the "omg no one hammered" line of thinking, but it's relevant here because if it was T/T then, given claims, all scum would have to do is pile onto DBP, roleblock and kill MML, and then instawin

Yeah, they wouldn't be able to get away with this at this point unlike D3

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 02:26 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4729668)
well its been 6 hours and neither DBP or Dusk has been piled on, so I think one of em has to be a wolf.

Normally I'm not one for the "omg no one hammered" line of thinking, but it's relevant here because if it was T/T then, given claims, all scum would have to do is pile onto DBP, roleblock and kill MML, and then instawin

Even if every wolves stacked one of the two, it would still be L-1.

I feel like you're throwing faulty logic on purpose here.

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 02:34 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
I was hoping for discussion about why DBP or Duskfall is scum or not.

I come back to 7 posts that doesn't lean much.

Well, it's tempting to believe a bit more the T/T world now.

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 02:36 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Please consider a MML/Jessie/Shado world.

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 02:42 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
..or not. I guess at this rate im going to have 2000 posts and still be like please consider X/Y/Z.

ShadoWolfe 05-4-2020 02:50 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
Where I'm at rn:

I started this morning looking at worlds based on partner equity, excluding MML and leetic because they're lock town as far as I'm concerned.

Out of the remaining players (DBP, Bolth, Haku, Jessie, and Dusk),

I kind of want to policy lynch jessie and call it a day, but keep thinking it feels too easy. When she's posted, her posts just make me WIFOM between on whether it's intentional spew (as in the case of her calling out Haku/Bolth as partners repeatedly) or genuine thoughts. Sprinkled amongst the wifom is stuff like this post, where she addresses FFA as if she's talking to him, but its so clearly not a question to FFA as it is loaded for the rest of us. Asking "why lie...?" and then concluding with " I donít see how you can be town and do this." is gross.
@jessie, if you read this, what I need from you is to share full thoughts on people. when you've shared reads, they've been concise to the point where I can't read you from them, so really go into depth on your thought process on every slot. I'm not asking for a confident conclusion on each, but at least talk about what you think of the person and, more importantly, why / what led you to think that way.

When I started, I thought bolth might be the common denominator scum in the likely active scum teams, but then I went back and read him in some more depth and I don't think he's compatible with any world involving Dusk. The spats/shade they've had really don't look like partner distancing to me. I doubt they're ever W/W.
Which means that if bolth is scum, the scum world is bolth/haku/DBP (or jessie). His partner equity is through the roof with Haku, both because Haku has consistently softdefended him and because of posts like #1902, which reflects upon his contentment to townread haku's slot and let it skate. His readslist in #2882 really drives this home with the almost stereotypical partner reads on Haku and DBP.

Haku is weird to me this game. In terms of pairings, he's kept himself neutral enough to be paired with nearly anyone (but especially bolth) because he dismisses his own pushes as "no one will follow me" and then backs off when engaged. At certain points, I've been almost contented enough to write him off as paranoid townHaku having a bad game and call it a day, but it feels weird.
What's missing from this Haku is the normal flashes of brilliance that accentuate his town play. There was a post earlier where he said that wolfHaku knows he has to pretend to be paranoid, and that kind of is where I'm at. The mechanical blunders and self-stated hopelessness when mechanics is normally his strong suit ties into that possible faux-paranoia in that Haku undersells himself in terms of how people regard him, so playing to that regard could be what we're seeing here. There's too many posts about his uncertainty and paranoia to quote them all, but one post that pinged me in regards to this was #3106

Dusk had the wolfiest D0 out of anyone here. His play as a whole seems to be geared in getting TWTBAW (too wolfy to be a wolf) townreads, and his early game felt forced. While present, it was nearly impossible to pin his reads on anyone down until just last phase. In terms of partner equity, the only person he can't pair with is Bolth.
Since starting to speak up, though, and up through even his most recent debacle, I think his tone has been largely pure. He said somewhere that he came in determined to play an effortless game, and I think he's done that despite potentially staking the game on it. I know he's an exceptional player, so seeing him do a full 180 and become a pancake has given me culture shock of sorts, but he feels towny despite my misgivings. Speaking of misgivings, my issues with him that remain are largely to do with his apparent obsession with looking to dead players' reads. Aside from saying he's town because "every dead towny thought so" (which is the grossest thing he's done), his readslist at #3112 made multiple references to sheeping FFA's reads. This is probably a site culture thing, so @Dusk I ask that you please go into more of your own thoughts on each slot and why you think that way. Like, a stream consciousness thing similar to what I asked jessie to do.

In terms of DBP himself, I think he's as null as can be. His *solving* has seemed muted throughout game and, while he's accentuating his language with a frustrated/angry "fucking", "fucking", "fucking", his emotions feel hollow. I don't think lynching him today is wise given his claim, but he's certainly not towny by any means, and his being scum would answer all the burning questions I have about the game and its weirdness. His response and reaction to FFA did have him looking townier, though it's so far within his townrange that it did little to dispel my doubts on the slot.


If it comes down to Dusk vs DBP, I think I go DBP like 90%. We've made the "right mechanical choice" twice now, and it hasn't gotten anywhere except into this pit of shit we're in, so it's not gonna stop me a third time.

Outside of DBP, I think one in bolth/Haku is our best bet of hitting scum, though jessie is also an attractive option.

ShadoWolfe 05-4-2020 02:54 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
I've been neglecting work to focus on this because I owed it to thread in after being lazy in favor of Hollow Knight yesterday, but now I gotta catch up with work. I'll probably be able to check my phone a couple times, but I'm late for a site meeting rn so I won't be very present for awhile. Hoping to be back well before EoD, but we'll see.

My previous post should outline pmuch all I'm thinking anyhow

Hakulyte 05-4-2020 02:58 PM

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 
I'm pretty upset that you would vote DBP over Duskfall here.


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