Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

@Bolth

What did you have in mind when you followed the first DBP voting chain ?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

DaBackPack: I was leaning DBP scum at the start of the game as his playstyle wasn’t really what I was used to from him, he wasn’t really trying to push anything and seemed to lack direction. His play since FFA faked a redcheck has been more in line with what I’m used to, and I have no reason or knowledge enough of the setup to disbelieve any claims that have been made. His soft is way too big brain for me, but it is also very very detailed and goes back all the way to d0, so if he is faking, he has definitely put the effort and the planning in, which I guess I can’t rule out, DBP is a very capable player.

Hakulyte: Haku was extremely towny early game. This is weird for me as I’ve always struggled to read Haku in past games. I didn’t really question it until this phase though with the block. He IS doing his normal strange scumworld lists which are only said, I imagine, to gauge reactions, so I’m still town reading him for the most part, but this is my best choice for under the radar wolf.

JessieBessie: Pretty much always a wolf. Their appearances have always been brief and full of fluff but I noticed her entrance yesterday had a lot of focus on trying to make a MML/DBP scum team a probability, which besides me simply not believing it, would make us doubt their roleblock claims in the following phases, which could potentially be Jessie trying to protect her team mates. Possibly a stretch but there’s been nothing towny from this slot and if she isn’t a wolf, I have no idea what this game is.

Ullea/Wolfe: I have struggled to read this slot all game. Ullea was a straight null for me, their points made a lot of sense but also Leetic’s catch on Ullea’s post also made a lot of sense. Wolfe has come in strong and been saying a lot of things that make sense, and seems to have put effort in solving. I was quite skeptical of how quick he was to sheep Dusks read on me, and this phase has given me the impression again that he is following people (Leetic, this time) rather than coming out with his own thoughts.

Leetic: I’m a little concerned that Leetic hasn’t been NKd even though he was first PR to out, but I’m guessing wolves didn’t see him as a threat if he was a 1-shot. I do believe his claim, and therefore am not considering a vote here. Leetic is someone I would have probably tunneled on earlier in the game if there was no PR outing, as his play has been quite convoluted and he always seems like he has more knowledge than he lets on, but this would be a pretty huge tinfoil at this point in the game and is not something I’m interested in pushing.

MixMasterLar: I am a sucker for AtE and his ‘’I forgot’’ thing regarding the Roleblocker strengthened his claim for me. If I am wrong about this then I hate myself, but I’m pretty certain MML is exactly who he says he is. I think his progressions have been very natural all game.

Duskfall: I’ve been saying it most of the game but I’m pretty certain Dusk is scum. I thought he was town during memephase, but his refusal to get serious or take part in any sort of active solving since has drastically changed my read on him. His entrance today has also been disgusting, by assuming we have lost. He has seemed disinterested in helping town throughout the game, with a large majority of his posts since getting a little more serious last phase were all to do with mechanics only and his reads were trash and nonexistent.

With everything in mind, I think the team is Duskfall/Jessie/Wolfe and I would also lynch in this order.

I want to vote Dusk.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

This is a problem I've had with many of your posts, but saying you want to see someone posting more is not a read

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I think I'm the only player who called out that DBP/FFA was T/T.

I wanted to explain that real quick, but I guess no one looked that up.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I don’t understand the question

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At least half of those reads are really flaky.

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Man, people would have killed for you to do that in previous phases.

(well, I know you did one last phase, but it felt like a joke in comparison)

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Any reasson why you didn't vote at all? You could've easily voted jessie or something

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Remember the L-1 DBP very early in the previous phase ?

I was wondering what you had in mind during the FFA red check part.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean I’ll elaborate on any reads you want me to, but this is why I specifically said I wasn’t going to post my reads

Too many bs towny plays and mechanics bullshit has really made me unconfident on almost every read I’ve had throughout the game

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I assume that this is the post you're referring to, This honestly looks TMI to me, especially with your fatalistic "Logic says FFA tho" comment.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I felt like FFA vs DBP had to be solved in some sort of way because of incoming mylo.
Jessie insta'd right before I could potentially vote. I was likely to vote FFA and be wrong anyway.

It's hard to ignore a claim fight and just be like "hey join my random 3rd wagon pls".

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Haku I am certain that you also had posts that said all three of us were wolf. What does one of your many tinfoils have to do with you feeling like answering questions no one asked?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

What screwed me up is how long it took for FFA to rescind his claim.

Past that point I still wasn't sure if I was getting gamed or not.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean, if you truly felt that way, you could've at least tried to do something to chart a different course. You didn't even vote, for crying out loud!

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Oh right, honestly, inexperience I guess

I wasn’t even thinking about the possibility for insta when I made the vote, and I’ve also never been in a game where fakeclaiming has been a thing, so my first instinct was to believe it

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean, ok. I won't talk about my own posts.

I don't get what you're going for if you are.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Jessie's vote was insta. It stopped the phase.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

This is making me want to pair Bolth with Dusk smh.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Jessie was certainly hedging throughout much of D3. The problem is all these reads are very softcore in comparison to what was going on in the thread so it would be difficult to tell which of the people she mentioned would be her partners.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Always posts bad reads instead of no reads

You will be pushed and screamed at and have to defend bad reads, but if youre town the act of putting your thoughts out there and conversing with them not only help other towns read you but also can give you the insight to get better reads.

As town, do not be afraid of in thread conflict. Remember your responses and willingness can sometimes clear players more then the reads itself.

.....the alternative is be like Duskfall or Jessie.....dont do that.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Why did you largely stay neutral on the Mikey/roleblocker drama yesterday?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The dynamic in that post with Dusk/Jess/Botlh is funny to me.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

You could've voted someone else

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

What do you want me to do here ? I can't change that I was undecisive and didn't vote sooner.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If I'm what? Talking about your post? You brought it up! And now your trying to say one of like a dozen different, contradicting things is relevant and lowkey shame people for not following it up, but when you post every conceivable outcome it isnt that awesome when one turned out to be true

You haven't really taken a stake and made hard stances when it mattered, Haku. Thats the issue. And being paranoid about the vote before i even ask is mad sus.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If you thought that Mikey/DBP was T/T, make your voice heard, look at other people, I don't know do something other than watching the town destroy itself the day before -yLo

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I didn’t know who to believe. There was a lot of mechanical and setup talk that I didn’t feel comfortable taking part in, so I was observing other people making those mechanical solves, to try and get a better idea on who to believe

I did post saying that I was onboard with voting for ffa by the end of the phase, but I didn’t place my vote there because it would’ve been insta

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I did feel like I was the only one trying to solve that situation. You could've asked questions to the people involved, or look at it from another perspective and consider the past posts of the respective users. You doing absolutely nothing in a moment that was going bad for town does not look good for you

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I have a lot of trouble to imagine being in mylo with FFA/DBP still being unsolved and somehow ignoring both of them 3 phases in a row.

I think town coordination would have been pretty much impossible.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Not an excuse for you to do nothing. If we had caught scum, we wouldn't even be in MyLo.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Go read the posts around that quote Leetic


Its clear that Halu was meming the "they're both town" bit at the time, no way that was meant to be serious. I took it as a joke then, and think Haku is retroactively trying to make it a bigger stance then it was.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

We might not be in mylo next phase if roleblockers keep blocking wolves.

That'd be kinda cool.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I'm pointing out that Haku's behavior would be ridiculous then even under their own logic

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean yea, but I also feel you’re not being entirely fair towards me here

I did make posts during this time, not many, but I did, and I was asking questions, trying to figure out the claims in my own way

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

And that makes your inaction better how...?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Oh, and just like Haku you had this super fatalistic moment yesterday. Care to explain?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Ok wow

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

You going back on that perma-town read on Lar thing already? Shit dawg.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

This was where my head was at when I was considering the possibility of ffa being vt and both MML and dbp being pr, as I was worried we were heading to a mislynch, but knew we would have to solve those 3 somehow before moving on, which is where the fatalistic attitude came from I guess

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I don't know what I could have done better because I think the order of the resolution in this game was done properly.

The events themselves were the problem.

I definitely needed the flip information in both cases. (Xiz/FFA)

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Lar, I think this is correct and I agree with it. Please town read me.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I might havve just doomed town by saying this because I need to vote the same thing as MML probably.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Clearly you should have had more to say if you felt like that? Even if you were okay with Mikey being mislynched (again, the day before -yLo), if you were worried about a T/T conflict you could have at least looked into why it started and who was benefitting off of it.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I was at least trying to solve things. Throughout most of D3, you were commenting but not making any real judgements. I had to prod you repeatedly to even get you to say Mikey should be lynched.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

When considering what happened D3, there are two main things we have to consider: 1. Scum had to have known based on setup that Mikey's claim was fake. 2. The main drama was caused by a townie fakeclaiming a red check. Scum couldn't have planned this.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Well, I kept having back and forth about if DBP or Mikey was real and I didn't quite believe myself most of the time, but also felt like it was reasonable that it could have been W/T all along.

Also, looking into "who it benefits" is kinda tricky because it's been a self-destruct scenario.

If you iso'd stuff like Bolth/Duskfall/Jessie, you would realize that there's not a lot to say and that these slots are mostly coin flips.

Figuring out that all the actions was between town was pretty much what I tried to do, but I usually want to compare this data to other players and it was hard to do here.

tl;dr: game lacked some sort of town circle so, I wanted to rely more of mechanics to compensate, but mechanics clearly didn't work in town's advantage this game.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

While that's true, I don't feel like they needed to do much about it.
Well, the natural resolution here for a wolf is to sit on the side and wait for the storm to end.

Basically, everyone who played like me kinda.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Please discuss who we want to vote today.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Why are you so hasty this phase?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I think this is going to be the longer thing to talk about and most controversial at same time.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

We can't just look at who is the most suspicious now. We have to consider the entire game.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The fastest route might be to find all the towns and lynch the rest tbh.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

That's like the only way I could solve our most recent Turbo.

If you guys are confident that DBP/Leetic/MML/ShadoWolfe are all town then that'd be a very good start.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If not, then why etc.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Alright, so I grilled DBP on this issue. So there's one more thing that's possibly a bit tinfoil but we need to get this out of the way to ensure we are looking at this from all possible sides.

Namely, the possibility that MML was scum. Timing wise, he claimed after DBP, so there's that. He did have one post before the claim that seemed to hint at his claim of roleblocker, but it came after my post fully claiming. It's the "I forgot" excuse that makes this look weird, as it makes it convenient as to when he chose to go after Mikey. Of course though, it's things like the D2 claim that the roleblock was on Mikey specifically that makes this a little hard to believe, as scum had to have roleblocked Xiz. It would have had to be a lucky accident, although it does go with the "I forgot" excuse and waiting to claim after all power roles are out.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Fastest isn't necessarily the best.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If MML was scum then why wouldn't wolves just roleblock -and- NK DBP ?

That's where it doesn't make sense to me.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

It is notable that MML and DBP have posted a lot of the same thoughts, sometimes at the same time (so it can't be sheeping). It is hard to see a world where they are not the same alignment.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If you believe that DBP is real, I think it's reasonable to also believe that MML is real.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

As I said, the only reason wolves would no kill is to add believability to a roleblocker claim. Since it's MyLo, they really have nothing to lose.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Well, if that's true then your wolf team would be DBP/MML/X.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

As I said, a roleblocker claim. At least one of MML/DBP must be town.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

In that world, Duskfall would also be town and the goal would be to fake a Haku/Duskfall thunderdome.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I would simply never no kill in that scenario and always eliminate the town roleblocker.

That's a really awkward play if real.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

In that world, there would be only two wolves, as well as an SK. That world is not worth considering.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

IDK if you particularly want to hash this out with me as the counter argument but if I'm scum and DBP is town I was drinking bleach when i decided to jump all in instead of let two towns do my job for me.

If both DBP and I are scum then it's....a little less stupid? It's still really dumb and I 100% just let my partner handle it in this case. Most players here only hesitated on the FFA wagon because i claimed and that called DBP into question, otherwise had it just been the 2 of them I'm sure DBP seeing the hardclaim after Mikey caused so much trouble with his bullshit "totes got a redcheck then we would have all lynched him no issue. Had I been VT and saw that, woulda done the same.

But I wasnt and when I realized that i actually had the proof that Mikey was full of shit I came forward then because sitting on it past that point woulda been worse.

But as wolf? Coming forward doesnt benefit me if I'm wolf

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

They only need one mislynch to win though. If they can get one of their team members to never be voted, that's a huge advantage going in.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

While it's not 100% full proof, I still think it's relatively safe to clear DBP/MML/Leetic from the game.

I wonder if everyone is relatively okay with town reading Ulli/ShadoWolfe.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Note that I'm usually wrong on these calls so, MML/DBP is probably W/W.

Haku, stop

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I think without the MML claim, DBP would have died in the FFA/DBP thing especially if FFA didn't rescind.

The question is if it was the right call.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I still think they have enough progression to justify being town read.

If MML got lucky with the hypocop FFA thing as a wolf then gj I'd say.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

With DBP having already dared him to hardclaim so he could nail his ass? After a show like that and FFA's wishy washy claims I disagree

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

What's weird is that immediately after Mikey "outed" DBP, Haku, Dusk and Bolth all voted DBP in quick succession. It would be weird for the entire wolf team to hound one person in one moment, especially since they had to have known Mikey was full of shit - then again, it could have been a mistake and they thought they could hammer and knew that Mikey would take the fall for anything bad happening. Anyway, I recommend everyone look back to that moment.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

From memory, I was the 2nd vote after FFA and I just wanted some pressure for the lols.

The 2 votes after me actually scared me kinda.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Plus, some of them unvoted rather quickly. It could have very well been a slip.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

My guess is that after wolves saw me/FFA vote DBP, they all wanted to vote rush, but a wolf was missing to insta.

So, it ended up being cancelled.

Yes, I'm talking about Jessie

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Nah