Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Haven't really taken the time to read Haku yet, MML. That'll come eventually. This game is mentally exhausting.

-o24

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

I disagree but good for you I guess. @ soda: that looks really neat is it regional because I've never seen it o: @ reads: yeah d/w i'm still awake for the night. i need dinner #2 anyways because they had no rice and not much orange chicken left at panda ;;

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Have you not been following the thread?
Did you seriously go up to bat for someone you hadn't "taken the time to read" yet?

Game is really exhausting though. Wouldn't be satisfying if it wasn't.

It's all up and down the East Coast for sure. Past that, I don't know. It is a small company

I look forward to a reads list. Meanwhile I am going to step away from the game for awhile.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

If I hadn't been following the thread, I wouldn't have known Haku started posting with analysis instead of shitposts. What I meant was I hadn't really considered how to read Haku yet (scum, null, town). Classify is maybe better than read here?

-o24

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Still rocking irrelevant stuff but I live in upstate South Carolina but haven't seen it :/

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Okay, finally caught up. I probably shouldn't have subbed in, because I started a new job this past week and my schedule has kind of been wrecked, but I'll make do. There's a lot of stuff that's happened today so far that's worth commenting on; I'll be posting on several things that caught my attention.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

2) storn42 - Town.
3) Yoshl - The argument that I had with him was purely play style. I don't think he's indicative of anything from that. His actions in this game have seemed very townie because of the intent in the posts. He projects it very well.
4) wineandbread - I've liked his tone and his posts #901 and #1239. They seem pretty good, especially the second one. However he's been quieter than I would've expected but I'd still give him a pass. Town.
5) roundbox - Null. Quiet.
6) MixMasterLar - I feel like you might be scummy because of #1269. Your interactions with both andy and haku were poor in my opinion. The one to haku because you jumped so quickly to "is the gamble that you're voting for your partner?" and to andy because I feel like he's fishing for a newer player to say something that he might not perceive as scummy and then everyone jumps on his ass for it. Plus I feel like your reaction was a little exaggerated to the fact that AA died. Then I think about aggression but I feel like you're pretty outgoing in general so I wouldn't be shocked if this was your wolf game.
7) XelNya - His EoD was pretty good, he definitely gets a pass for now.
8) Precarious - Null. Quiet.
9) Vendetta21 - Null. Quiet.
10) Hakulyte - Null because I can't read you. Initially I town read you but your most recent interactions and posts have been kinda awkward in my opinion. One thing sticking out to me being the Pazzaz thing, but I could understand why you might perceive the roll to be potentially scum.
12) ShadoWolfe - Voices initial concern on haku on #1167 but brushes it off as a sleepy haku. I really don't like the progression here though. Then the tipping point for him to finally vote comes on when Haku said nice timing. I feel like there must've been a better post to do that on? Idk it just reads very weird and not town to me.
13) Pazzaz - Town. I believe his claim, and I believe he's town sided.
15) Andy-o24 - Was town for d0, then now he's posting kinda strangely, such as the WIFOM post #1169. However, through his and MML's interactions I don't think it's w/w and it's more probable in my mind for mml to be the wolf.
16) gold stinger - Town, I liked his reads list, nothing has made me change my initial belief of him being town.
17) inDheart - Null because he's still catching up. I don't really think any of his interactions have been indicative of anything but once he catches up I'm sure I'll have a better impression.
19) _Zenith_ - Null. Haven't seen to much to decide yet.
20) Tokzic - Null. Quiet.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Ew that was formatted like garbage mb lol

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

> Go Advanced
> Preview Post
> Good. Hot.
> ????
> Profit

-o24

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Not enough attention has been paid to this. I mean, people are using this as a basis to semi-clear Paz, but his initial point raised a topic that's worth investigating further.

First off, this is stated way too definitively; if Pazzaz's role is (was) really to switch effects on N1, he shouldn't actually know this. But assuming it's just awkwardly phrased and it's just what he thinks, it instead raises an important point. There were several people who were really surprised that Charu was nightkilled--if this was because Charu died when AA was targeted (and this is reinforced by the daykill today), then that surprise is fundamentally suspicious, because it links those people to the kill. Lots of people get nightkilled for a variety of reasons, so the outcry makes more sense if those people knew Charu shouldn't have died. But the only people that could know that are are the killers themselves, Pazzaz, and potentially a watcher-type role if that exists in this game.

Having said that, there are a few problems with Pazzaz's logic, and I'm a little uncomfortable with how readily people have cleared him (although I lean toward him being town, since claim gambits tend to blow up, it's not really definitive imo). Basically, his town-town plan doesn't make a lot of sense. By his own claim, as far as I can tell, his role was enforced silence on D0 in exchange for being able to switch night effects on two players on N1. This doesn't give him any special insights or investigative information, so his plan suffers from the following problems:

Multiple people seemed to be town-reading AA strongly. This would have made AA a more likely night protection (again assuming that power exists in this game, but a doctor-type role is super standard) target. It's also not that unlikely that someone other than AA could have been targeted for a nightkill; while town reads might have made him the most likely target, the field overall still seems more likely. Pazzaz's logic seems to assume that AA (or perhaps Charu) would have been targeted, and while that's somewhat reasonable, it runs into the problem of why he chose Charu as the other player. This was supposedly so that the town-town effect would provide him with some information, but he only gets information if one of them dies. If that's the case, why not choose a potential wolf to receive the transferred deathblow? The payoff only makes sense if one expects Charu to be targeted (which would transfer death to AA), obtaining an unconfirmable town read at the expense of potentially killing a wolf. In any TWG/mafia game, town are always going to outnumber its antagonists to start. That's the basic premise of the game. As such, individual town reads aren't super useful (especially early on) in comparison to wolf reads or wolf kills. But his language choice acts as if getting a town clear was fait accompli, which again assumes information he shouldn't have.

In spite of the above, I'm still leaning town on Pazzaz, since claim gambits tend to blow up sooner or later, and his hasn't so far. But one way or another, the mechanics of his situation demand further consideration (especially since his roleclaim entailed a D0 post restriction, which if true suggests other posting modifiers may be in effect now or later).

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Okay, Zenith and Haku, I've gone through every game Aryxi has ever played (thankfully he's a new player), hoping that you were right and that Aryxi would have a magic tell that would clear him, and therefore Haku, as town.

I ended up being disappointed, because there's nothing consistent in his responses that would justify your assertion that "He always uses the same manner, style, mannerisms, tone, and almost words when he's town-aligned and being attacked. It's such a bad tell and yet, it's been decisive so many times already for Aryxi that I'm able to say the slot (at that time because I have no idea what Haku is doing right now) was town-aligned."

Therefore, respectfully, I have to conclude that you were grossly exaggerating his "tell". Like I told Haku, the main similarity between this game and any of his town games is just the fact that he gave up and left after a push on him in both this game and the last game. When I said that to Haku, you said I was wrong about the "tell" and that I should have asked one of the two people who saw it. I Since you didn't respond to my request that you pull up where AA originally mentioned the "tell", I'm going to go find it now myself. I hope you weren't lying about AA, because if his version of the tell is the same as mine then you will have my vote for lying and putting words in his mouth.


List of Aryxi's responses to attacks:

Turbo 4 (aka Aryxi's first game):
Turbo 5:
Turbo 6:
Turbo 7:


This game:

He responds as differently as you could expect from the same person. Nothing in his "style" or "mannerisms" is identical. So much for that. On a different note, I never realized how little Aryxi posts in this games. Finding these was easier than I thought. If anyone wants to confirm that these were, in fact, his responses and that I'm not nitpicking or altering them at all, please simply click on the arrow next to the relevant quote and read the context.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Several things here. Does "Not included in initial PM" mean AA was unaware of his own modifier? If this is the case, then there may be personal and global effects that we're not aware of. Not much that can be done about that, but it's worth keeping in the back of our minds.

More to the point: it's highly likely that AA was killed by a wolf (although this speaks to the inexperience of the wolves if so; a wolf daykill is more dangerous if saved, as it can collapse a LYLO situation into an instant loss). Now, while dayvig roles are fairly common (at least in other mafia communities, I can't speak for custom here), wolf daykills are much rarer, and anonymous wolf daykills are unheard of (precisely because they're so powerful and balance-breaking). That suggests that an item was used, and as has been pointed out, item sharing and corpse looting are not in effect. It's possible that this was planned, then, but given the Paz claim, it's likely that the wolves were caught off guard by the lack of an AA death. That means AA's content on both days (but especially today) probably points to a wolf or wolves.

There is one other possibility, though. Can a vanilla town player still have an item? It's worth noting that AA was an archer, and died via an arrow shot. I would argue it's possible that he was otherwise vanilla, but possessed a shot that somehow was reflected back at him, either by item or ability (I'm not familiar enough with FE to identify a cross-mechanic for this--a physical shield? A reflect spell?).

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

I dont think the idea of a gunsmith is that far off... if I'm remembering correctly the gunsmith gives someone a gun and that person got to shoot someone ant any point in time. That means if we have a gunsmith claim we know that the person he gave the gun to is likely a woof. So here is my crazy plan. The gunsmith claims, we lynch the gunsmith after he tells us who the woof he gave the gun to is.

Btw this plan is probably overtly stupid in some way so you know.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Quick gut reads:

YoshL is town. His play is both thoughtfully aggressive and actually considers the game. The latter is hard to do honestly if you're playing an aggressive wolf.

Andy feels wolfish to me. Way too many red flags, and his tone/style of play seems to jump around too much.

Shadow is town, if only because I have trouble imagining a wolf pouring through that many older games.

Zodiac feels town. Weird absence early, but his play since appearing reminds me too much of his previous game.

Xel seems town after EoD.

One of Haku and MML is a probably a wolf, given the antagonism, although a town-town fight is possible.

DFR is likely a wolf, given the weird game to this point and AA dying soon after pushing for DFR pressure.

***

Better reads based off of more than instinct will come after I get some sleep.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

A gunsmith/gift giver/whatever type role seems like it would clash with the (Items cannot be passed from one player to another) clarification in the OP, although it's possible that just refers to starting items and not to gifted items if a such a role exists.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

OH!

^^^^^^^makes no mention of identical posting styles in Aryxi, mentions the tell as being that Aryxi "rolls" when accused.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvv
This was AA's response on Aryxi's tell (being a defeatist who rolls with some accusation on him):
My response on his tell (this is all after he gave up, then promised to address my points when I told him not to give up and leave, but before he actually replaced out):
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
fast forward to present day
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
vvvvvvvvvvvvv
Uhm, what?! So aside from me being one of the ones who "know and noticed it", my post about the "tell" is more similar to your initial stance on it then your own!
vvvvvvvvv
......???????
How is this congruent with your initial post about the tell? You're literally changing it up after saying I was wrong. Why? And why do this all to defend Haku?
Also, why is this your only real contribution today?
I re-examined your posts for today and your comeback to thread was mostly filled with reactionary observations, rather than any actual digging. I'm really not liking you now, because you seem to only chime in when you can without actually scumhunting, which reads to me as a wolf trying to look like he's contributing without actually doing any hunting.

Zenith.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

^this is actually a really good question and observation. I had thought about AA's role being a novice archer that always messes up, and noticed that he got hit with an arrow, so I was wondering if he somehow shot himself, but it says he's vanilla town so I dropped it. If a vanilla town player can have an item, then this would be a good explanation for the shot and its timing. I assume if there are shootable items, then there are probably also be items that reflect shots back onto the shooter. I wonder if sunfan would answer this for us.

@TWG Ike, you said that no roles will flip as something other than what they are. Can a role that flips as vanilla town still possess an item?

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Explain to me why we would lynch the gunsmith after he tells us who the woof he gunned is? Why wouldn't we lynch the woof directly?

Other than that, this plan is actually pretty good. If there's a gunsmith, I agree that they should out the name of the person they gunned.

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Actually, I take this back. If a wolf fakeclaims, and we kill the person they said they gunned, then we'd lose a phase that we could've lynched in, as well as the nightkill victim(s), all for one guaranteed wolf the next phase. I don't think that trade is really worth it.

If there's a gunsmith, please don't claim

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 

Well, you did it Shadow, I don't understand where you're going anymore.