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-   -   TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD] (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=152539)

Shadow_God_10 11-25-2020 06:31 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mellon_collie (Post 4750531)
Can you point anything out about his style that is similar? and you realize that "just for today" is kinda hard when we've already lost 3 town right

It's mostly his calm demeanor and analyzing things... maybe? It's been a year since I've played with him... I could be wrong, and usually am about things like this


Yeah hindsight is a cunt and I realize that we actually NEED to hit a wolf today to get some good leverage going into tomorrow

Shadow_God_10 11-25-2020 06:31 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
FG still top dog for me based on what I've said last night so far

the sun fan 11-25-2020 06:35 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4750532)
Sunfan's post is probably right in terms of the numbers and such, but all I can think about is "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

So maybe the pairing sucks, but dammit, Plop is still the wolfiest player in this game, imo, and FG is not far behind.

Sunfan: *A reasonable explanation as to why town shouldn't play a certain way*

Force: *Meme quote*

guess I lose this one

the sun fan 11-25-2020 06:58 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750517)
Logically, you want to vote out Plop here to reinforce the FG/T-Force worlds.

this is the thing, Haku

you're talking about logic here when its a read
Plop has nothing to do with any worlds related to FG/T-Force in my mind. I don't care about this at all, and you shouldn't either.

Just fucking pick someone and vote them because you think they're scummy, not because you'll get some reinforcement on a world that isn't remotely related to the reason why you'd vote the person in the first place

its seriously no wonder town lost last game trying to infolynch me d0

there was no information gathered other than that I was town

whatever plop flips if we kill him, you go back, you look at his interactions, and *then* you decide what information you want to give a shit about. Until then, pick someone for being scummy.

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:05 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750536)
Sunfan: *A reasonable explanation as to why town shouldn't play a certain way*

Force: *Meme quote*

guess I lose this one

I think your post is largely correct. The one contradiction I see is that wagonomics really only makes sense in the context of dyads, because players vote for other players. When you analyze voting patterns of specific players--- which is a very good tool for solving--- you naturally start asking yourself about the alignment relationship between the voters and the votees.

While individual actions are reliable pieces of evidence, there is always going to be that context which is additional information to hone the read.

I definitely think that basing reads based on dyads this early on is fundamentally risky, but I still think that you can't fully understand human behavior and agenda without at least utilizing connections between players. An example would be with FG: her voting for Ulli is confusing and scummy at first, until you realize that she wanted to keep FFA alive because of the nature of their relationship.

---Anyway, this is more academic and nitpicky than is useful. I think the policy you've described in your wallpost is the best way to at least start out with reasoning.

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:14 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Regarding T-Force/FG:

If (big if) we feel reasonably sure that this is W/T then we absolutely should vote in here today, IMO.

Because here's what will happen if we don't: we'll mislynch today, and during tomorrow (potential MYLO) the wolves will weaponize the T-Force/FG tension, and they will force (ha) the issue, but specifically in a way that lynches the wrong person. We see this all the time: a scummy town player is strategically kept alive until MYLO, and then the wolves push the narrative "well, we kinda HAVE to resolve this player now" and get the win off the mislynch.

Resolving these conflicts early on prevents wolves from weaponizing them in the critical moment. I think the vigi agrees with me, which is why they prolly shot Ulli in the night. Maybe they'll be able to resolve T-Force/FG by shooting them tonight, idk how the numbers work for parity if they do that though. I'd rather at least flip one of them as a lynch though, because that helps the vigi tremendously in the night.

the sun fan 11-25-2020 07:17 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Maya only had one bullet, DBP

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:19 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
If my perspective today seems pretty myopic that's why. We can't guarantee a wolf hit today. And if we miss, then we better damn make sure that we don't set ourselves up for failure tomorrow.

I'm self-aware that I'm kind of tunneling right now but it's for more of a mechanical reason based in minimizing long-term risk.

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:22 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750541)
Maya only had one bullet, DBP

oh, fuck me then

Note to roundbox for future games: please make Maya stronger. She deserves it. Please

TWGma 11-25-2020 07:23 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750536)
Sunfan: *A reasonable explanation as to why town shouldn't play a certain way*

Force: *Meme quote*

guess I lose this one

I'm glad you think I'm using a meme quote. $2 says you also thought I was using the Michael Scott version of it whilst completely forgetting the origin of it. Dude, sometimes we just need to take a fuckin' shot.

TWGma 11-25-2020 07:24 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
And if you want to stand on your pedestal with your finger in the air talking about why we need to look elsewhere, please go for it.

But this game thread currently shows 3 candidates regarded by most to be wolves, so why are you trying to distract from that.

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:24 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
looking back at the OP, the town power roles are like really weak

the only ones that look "good" are Trucy and Ema. Trucy deserves it at least

TWGma 11-25-2020 07:26 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4750538)
I think your post is largely correct. The one contradiction I see is that wagonomics really only makes sense in the context of dyads, because players vote for other players. When you analyze voting patterns of specific players--- which is a very good tool for solving--- you naturally start asking yourself about the alignment relationship between the voters and the votees.

While individual actions are reliable pieces of evidence, there is always going to be that context which is additional information to hone the read.

I definitely think that basing reads based on dyads this early on is fundamentally risky, but I still think that you can't fully understand human behavior and agenda without at least utilizing connections between players. An example would be with FG: her voting for Ulli is confusing and scummy at first, until you realize that she wanted to keep FFA alive because of the nature of their relationship.

---Anyway, this is more academic and nitpicky than is useful. I think the policy you've described in your wallpost is the best way to at least start out with reasoning.

Thank you for reinforcing what I said earlier today.

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:27 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
gyakuten saiban has a really good female cast. honestly just an incredible cast in general. that's what gives the series so much staying power imo

Esp. Maya and Edgeworth

TWGma 11-25-2020 07:27 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Out of context of the game, I think roundbox may have nerfed them after town roflstomped thanks to a vigi kill AND a Trucy kill on a wolf on consecutive nights and then lynching the last wolf. I may be wrong, or the events out of order, but one game was absolute chaos.

fatfuck42 11-25-2020 07:29 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4750545)
Note to roundbox for future games: please make Maya stronger. She deserves it. Please

QFE

DaBackpack 11-25-2020 07:30 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Hey T-Force, since you're here, I want you to know that you're currently still my top lynch target today. If you're town I really want to see you put in investigative work so that you can clear yourself.

I always have a really hard time reading you, I think because your general disposition always reads wolfy to me. So it's probably gonna come down to the quality of your reads and prodding

the sun fan 11-25-2020 07:31 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4750546)
I'm glad you think I'm using a meme quote. $2 says you also thought I was using the Michael Scott version of it whilst completely forgetting the origin of it. Dude, sometimes we just need to take a fuckin' shot.

the quote has been meme'd to death
I've seen it ascribed to Dale Earnhardt Jr

fatfuck42 11-25-2020 07:32 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Couple questions as I continue rereading:

1) When freezin plays town, is he the type of player who tries to act townie for the benefit of other townies, or is he the type of player who expects his towniness to speak for itself?

2) When yoshl plays scum, does he have any sort of modus operandi on which types of players he pushes to get mislynched or which sorts of wagons he joins/creates?

mellon_collie 11-25-2020 07:34 PM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10 (Post 4750534)
It's mostly his calm demeanor and analyzing things... maybe? It's been a year since I've played with him... I could be wrong, and usually am about things like this


Yeah hindsight is a cunt and I realize that we actually NEED to hit a wolf today to get some good leverage going into tomorrow

yeah I'm gonna say this is a good enough reason to have a lean but not much else. definitely not strong enough for "off the table for the day"

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4750552)
QFE

QFDE (the d stands for double)


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