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-   -   TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD] (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=152539)

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:34 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750655)
The only thing I don't like right now is how the majority is cool with a T-Force lynch in the same manner that majority was cool with Ulle/FFA lynch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750656)
It's logical, not controversial and everyone is happy.

If everyone is happy town is losing imo because it means wolves have no reason to care.

another thing. his logic is valid, but I don't know if the premise "not controversial and everyone is happy" is sound

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750658)
What the thread needs to most right now is Yoshl/Freezin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750674)
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
NO..............

Haku votes sunfan for "making a funny image in wolfchat."

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750675)
here's a post from the most recent mafia game I played in, FG referenced it shortly before she subbed out (FFA, FG and I won it yesterday afternoon)

some context will be lost here, but it should still suffice as evidence:
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threa...1#post-1250147

(btw that player did get killed the next day and he flipped red which I thought was great)

I'm an asshole in TWG sometimes. I care more about winning than I should, and this is bad for a couple reasons, I'll make it short. I'm going to try to be funnier sometimes because it'd make me more fun to play with, and doing stuff like what plop does where he made a banner for an official statement from that fake law-firm is the kind of thing I am jealous of, because it looks fun

so, I had fun making that image. I was sad when no one really responded to it at first, but such is life.

to actually get to your argument. You're not right on the team of 3. Even if you were, there's almost 0 chance you'd be right for the right reasons. Stop casting a net trying to catch every fish in the ocean.

If you think I'm scummy for having made that image, go ahead and vote me. But please, stop chasing a world of three on the second day phase without any mechanical information.

This is a pretty good exchange. I think it puts some distance between Freezin and YoshL. Interestingly, Freezin and YoshL are sunfan's top two wolves according to the Wolf Matrix. Something to keep in mind as we reread sunfan.

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 12:38 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Something I noted in the Plop post....

He somehow knows how to solve the unsolvable Haku...

and has Sunfan as town

and both of them have Freezin' as their top wolf...

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:40 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750825)
it reached the thread
if you have the time, I think you owe me a good reason as to why freezin is off the table for today

he should have said enough words by now for you to comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750832)
I actually like Freezin pushing Plop, but I'm rather neutral on his other posts before that point so, you'll be correct to say he's technically still on the table.

Freezin, get off the table. Show some manners.

Another good exchange between Haku/sunfan. Makes sunfan look kinda good.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:44 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4750881)
I'm not killing plop today
he can be a wolf, but his solving has been the best out of anyone's today, I'd say (potentially beaten by DBP)

I guess that;s what DBP's early activity was for; he knew he wouldn't be here at EOD so this is what we got

This is a minor conflict with my headspace, but I think it follows from his POV that Freezin and YoshL are "bigger fish to fry" in terms of a first wolf lynch. I would be interested to hear what sunfan thinks about Plop -period-, regardless of his lynch order given earlier

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:45 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce (Post 4750887)
maybe im getting too heated here

fake as fuck

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:46 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750901)
Expecting me to find a turbo is a mistake.
Expecting me to go read another game 1 hour 20 min from EoD is also a mistake.


We're approaching lolcat territory.

I also have crucial evidence.

I see exclamation marks.

based exclamation mark scumread

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:47 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750951)
Both T-Force and FG slot's voting Plop is :thinking:

he's right

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:48 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750955)
I mean, I was initially associating Plop to both FG and T-Force so, seeing both of them vote him implies that if Plop is a wolf, both T-Force/FG may have been town somewhat or he's getting bussed when there should be more options for wolves.

This is where I am, I think

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:50 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4750962)
I think I'm joining on T-Force again because I'm having a huge disconnect on the Plop voters.

Unfortunately, Haku takes the wrong conclusion from this, and because he's confused he defaults back to "Plop is town because both T-Force and FG are voting him."

The more likely scenario is that Plop is wolf and both T-Force/FG are town, which makes that wagon pretty pure.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:54 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGma (Post 4751057)
What if sunfan is wanting Subaru gone to cut the dead weight and to keep Plop around due to Plop being the stronger partner. :thonk:

This is a weird post to make if he is wolf partners with Plop. Especially like 15min before EoD.

(Context: Sunfan pushing for a Subaru lynch)

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 12:56 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 12:58 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBackpack (Post 4751509)
Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

This is the same problem I'm having

Every conclusion that I come to sounds so incredibly simple it's almost stupid to even believe

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:01 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I still have a lot of work to do--- gonna look directly at Plop's contributions now, but I feel pretty good about lynching Plop today. Current headspace: Plop/Freezin/YoshL in that order

Shadow_God_10 11-29-2020 01:04 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
I should be making mental notes of who I should be blocking based off your stuff here.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749432)
I wanted to know where you were coming from to help make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your word choice. "Town is weird" makes it sound like Ema is separate from town, like she's saying "you townies" instead of "us townies," y'know what I mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the sun fan (Post 4749489)
I get that its d0 but is this seriously a big deal to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749516)
I at least wanted to bring it up. Haku's responses to it seemed fine, though, so I'm off it now.

This is literally the beginning of the game. Sunfan/Plop unlikely to be W/W

There's no real incentive for wolf Sunfan to challenge wolf Plopadop this early for a weak push

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:06 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Moreover, Plop defending himself to Sunfan like this here also is not W/W

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:13 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749542)
That ule post came across as pretty townie to me. I feel like she'd be more self-conscious about going that deep into mechanics if she were a wolf (since "focusing too much on mechanics" is a popular wolf tell).

This post reads as TMI to me now. "Focusing too much on mechanics" is indeed a wolf tell... on FFR. Ulli has almost never played on this site so it's hard for me to believe that she would be aware of this meta. (P.S. She admits that the meta on her home site is totally different.)

The reason this is important is because, if I were in Plop's shoes here as a town, I would see the mechanics post and think, "she's focusing on mechanics. That's a wolf tell." because that's the most immediate response I'd have.

The telling part is that Plop REACHES this read but then flips it over, saying "ah! She's towny because her post is so obviously wolfy that it can't be wolfy!!" This is a literal example of WIFOM... and yet, Plop magically seems to arrive at the unintuitive "correct" answer of "Ulli is town!"

It's a very safe, easy move for Plop to make here, because it's a freebie read, because all he has to do is mentally invoke WIFOM and use the "contrarian" response. This is a very easy contrarian read for Plop to make, and it serves a dual purpose of making Plop seem like he's critically thinking about player alignment, but also saving his ass in case Ulli ends up lynched later.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:28 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
YoshL responds to Plop's weird Ulli read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749544)
I'm actually thinking on a little different lines here.

I went back and actually read the post, and the majority of it felt like common sense.

Like for example, the call to let up on any red checks should be pretty common sense given you read the potential blues and reds in the game, there's a lot of them that manipulate checks (assuming we have the alignment check in the game in the first place)

The one good point that was brought up was the final part regarding red miles, because I had forgotten about potential slightly-forced pushes on various players from the red miles role. I think my biggest issue though then becomes, why didn't they apply this to anything said in thread?

Like, thinking about it, i really really don't like how there's for some reason very random traction (no matter how small) on t-force lynch? i get that people aren't married to the idea, but when i said "gut tforce wolf" i wasn't expecting as much discussion around it as actually happened.

Basically, I don't like the mechanics post, because it's comboed with "very simple thoughts about setup", and "not applying mechanics thoughts to things actually happening in game"

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfuck42 (Post 4749553)
Hmm, I see your point. While I still think a wolf would be too self-conscious to make a post like that, I'll keep an eye out to see if her analysis eventually gets applied/incorporated into her reads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749558)
like plop says, i mostly want to see what they have to say later, because it's still not anything i'm 100% sold on

---
also, thank the ffr elementals for the downtime for extra phase time because god it looks like we needed it.

maybe will also need it for thanksgiving time too? *big shrug*

This has a very high chance of being wolf theater. It's hard to put into words, but when you see YoshL replying to reads from other players, especially in posts this long, you would expect to at least get some idea of how YoshL views Plop or vice versa. As an example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749562)
Also feeling a little wary at this mentality, because xiz is seeming to be a little more focused on who the best kill at this point in time is, rather than like... looking for more information to better inform votes

This is YoshL's immediate next post, a response to Xiz (who is town). Not only does he criticize the read, he immediately shades Xiz's mentality as wolfy. That is, not only is YoshL continuing to evaluate Ulli, the SUBJECT of the conversation, he is using the conversation as a way to generate reads on other players in the conversation.

Another example on the following page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4749575)
I can't actually tell if shadow is speaking for real and mindmelding, or read my post, and tried to fake-generate a mindmeld, because that's some pretty similar wording lmao

Again, this is a READ on another player (who is town). Go back and read YoshL's long response to Plop's strange Ulli read.

YoshL makes it a point to disagree with Plop's interpretation, but the conversation with Plop never results in any development of a read in either direction. Because Plop is a wolf with YoshL.

Plop's response to YoshL's response is also EXTREMELY awkward and after that the conversation between them IMMEDIATELY stops. Plop's like, "OK, yeah, sure, I'll think about it." And that's it.

This isn't how players talk to each other. Especially not YoshL. He'd be weirded out by Plop's post, just like I am.

DaBackpack 11-29-2020 01:39 AM

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 
To be more concise, maybe.

Wolf partners have a very hard time interacting with each other in thread. The reason is because, in the context of pushing an agenda, they have no reason to.

Towns interact with towns and wolves because they want to solve the game.
Wolves interact with towns because they need to trick town and push them to make mislynches.

Why do wolves need to interact with wolves? Because people will notice if they don't. So wolf-wolf communication in-thread is purely a MAINTENANCE task: it's just something you sometimes have to do. And, unlike the other cases, these conversations are necessarily fake, performative.

That's why it can really look stilted when two wolves talk to each other in thread. They're only doing it because they "have to." Plus, it's super hard! It can be harder to talk to your fellow wolves than it would be to talk to towns. As a rule of thumb, you rarely observe meaningful, compelling wolf dialogue, and many times you'll notice that some wolf pairs just flat-out do not talk to each other unless they have to.

YoshL at least took the initiative to respond to Plop's observation because he knows this. He knows that he has to talk to his partners or else he looks bad. The problem is, as I pointed out, it is clear that YoshL/Plop's interaction exists only for its own sake. Nothing changes as a result of this conversation. In fact, if you pay attention, YoshL's post actually talks past Plopadop. And Plopadop, in response, terminates the conversation, and they both move on like nothing happened.


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