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-   -   TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=145930)

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:20 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Either post some dank ass reads or post some dank ass content, because if we reach EoD and I still can't place you due to nocontent, you're getting my vote.

YoshL 11-12-2016 12:20 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492776)
Also a Charu nk makes no sense to me. AA was strongest town for most, and Charu didnt seem like he was blue. He was playing totally normal

I'm going to sleep soon, but notice that someone should go check if shado made any reads on charu for one

and for two, question why you were apparantly processing charu as "not blue" during d0

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:20 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
That was for Zenith

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:22 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
MML check the post order, I'm almost certain I voted shado first

as I said I swapped to xelnya to try and save freezin, then post 1092 is what has xelnya as very town in my mind so I swapped off to try and CFD, but it was too late

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:23 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I first voted shado in 1037

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:24 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492784)
I'm going to sleep soon, but notice that someone should go check if shado made any reads on charu for one

and for two, question why you were apparantly processing charu as "not blue" during d0

My read on Charu was along the lines of "probably town, pending wolftell"

For two, I wasn't. Over the night phase though, I did wonder who was gonna die and assumed it'd probably be AA. I had a couple other options in mind (not naming names cause I dont wanna give woofs ideas) but Charu just really was not one of them.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 12:24 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492777)
this is how I feel right now

If that's true it's gonna trigger me so damn bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492781)
dfr absolutely needs pressure today

Fucking mindmeld right here.

Also PAZZAZ GO SELF FORNICATE YOU CANINE OF THE FEMALE VARITY

YoshL 11-12-2016 12:25 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
mml didn't refresh soon enough

mindmeld with him on the strangeness of only 1 N0 death, but assuming/asserting there's no third party at this point is stupid

also asserting that "charu is right about someone" is about as base and general as you can get. Also note that you're shoving a "wolves obviously killed charu because he was putting pressure in the right places" reasoning up there.

both of those possibilities are shit and it'd be nice if you didn't operate under either of those assumptions. They're possibilities, yes, but nowhere near as substantial as you're making them out to be

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:27 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
like I said, I saw pazzaz check in 2-3 times for 30~ min and not post anything which is pretty wolfy

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 12:29 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492787)
I first voted shado in 1037

So glad I saw this post because I caught 1078 and 1097 but didn't see 1037. Almost kind of lost my shit for a sec.

Alright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492788)
My read on Charu was along the lines of "probably town, pending wolftell"

For two, I wasn't. Over the night phase though, I did wonder who was gonna die and assumed it'd probably be AA. I had a couple other options in mind (not naming names cause I dont wanna give woofs ideas) but Charu just really was not one of them.

Wording: What counts as a slip and what is really just poor vocabulary?

I'm kiiiiiiinndaaaa leeeaaaannnniinng Slliiiiiiiiiippp

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:35 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492526)
Back. So people are second guessing the Freezin wagon?

If he isn't a hit then he's a shit town SPEAKING OF WHICH XELNYA YOU STILL BITCHING ALL THE WAY UP TO EOD


Jesus Christ

I think Freezin, Xel, DFR (who still hasnt ever come around and made me feel better about his lackluster responses. He's going under the radar now and that's shit) and Haku

I dislike RB but I wont vote him today

rereading this post makes me lean MML more town

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 12:42 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492790)
mml didn't refresh soon enough

mindmeld with him on the strangeness of only 1 N0 death, but assuming/asserting there's no third party at this point is stupid

also asserting that "charu is right about someone" is about as base and general as you can get. Also note that you're shoving a "wolves obviously killed charu because he was putting pressure in the right places" reasoning up there.

both of those possibilities are shit and it'd be nice if you didn't operate under either of those assumptions. They're possibilities, yes, but nowhere near as substantial as you're making them out to be

I guess a third party (or for that matter, wolves) didn't kill/roleblock/item use/whatever, and Charu could have just been a randomed kill/someone knowing how good he tends to magically get d2-3 and wanting to get rid of the problem ahead of time.

But all the same, I'll assume we have a larger wolveteam and no 3rd parties until we see another nightkill. And looking at Charu's post can't hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492791)
like I said, I saw pazzaz check in 2-3 times for 30~ min and not post anything which is pretty wolfy

Man that's garbage, and I --------- actually that's angleshooting

But let's say gut tells me he's totally aware of the game and choosing not to play.

Pazzaz You're reading this, right? Get in here

YoshL 11-12-2016 12:43 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
watching MML fixate on supposed slips makes me dump him into the town pile for good tbh.

I'm looking at my general feelings towards the players in the game, and it's either null, or town leaning to varying degrees.

I have to commentate osu stuff tomorrow, so I'll be probably attempt to iso people for the first time fucking ever because it feels weird having like a bunch of strong town leans, and no real substance on any scum (AragakiAyase, roundbox, MixMasterLar, XelNya, Vendetta21 for anyone's reference)

feel free to yell at me if i don't actually iso people

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:44 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492793)
rereading this post makes me lean MML more town

How so?

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:48 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492792)
So glad I saw this post because I caught 1078 and 1097 but didn't see 1037. Almost kind of lost my shit for a sec.

Alright.



Wording: What counts as a slip and what is really just poor vocabulary?

I'm kiiiiiiinndaaaa leeeaaaannnniinng Slliiiiiiiiiippp

Hah, that's funny 'cause I actually thought it'd be funny if someone tinfoiled into that while I was typing it, but figured anyone with a semi-decent grasp of the language would understand that "other options" here relates to "wonder who was gonna die".

What's even funnier is that it isn't either of the options you gave, though. It wasn't a slip, and the "poor vocabulary" comment doesn't apply either because my sentence made grammatical sense. If anything, you could try faulting my word choice, but that still wouldn't apply because the original syntax was not incorrect.

Learn to read, bruh

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:48 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492796)
How so?

mindmeld on his choices for pressure/scum and him raging about xel makes me feel like he's genuinely frustrated about the state of the game and wants people to do stuff

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:49 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492794)
I guess a third party (or for that matter, wolves) didn't kill/roleblock/item use/whatever, and Charu could have just been a randomed kill/someone knowing how good he tends to magically get d2-3 and wanting to get rid of the problem ahead of time.

But all the same, I'll assume we have a larger wolveteam and no 3rd parties until we see another nightkill. And looking at Charu's post can't hurt.



Man that's garbage, and I --------- actually that's angleshooting

But let's say gut tells me he's totally aware of the game and choosing not to play.

Pazzaz You're reading this, right? Get in here

not sure why you'd assume there are no extra 3rd parties because there are plenty of 3rd party roles that don't have killing powers

like lyncher, for one

YoshL 11-12-2016 12:50 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492794)
But all the same, I'll assume we have a larger wolveteam and no 3rd parties until we see another nightkill. And looking at Charu's post can't hurt.

Aye, i'm not saying to completely discount the assumption, just that it's not a very founded one. Given 20 players, and a mystery setup, shit happens. Even with a larger wolf team, you would expect more than 1 kp per night phase at the very least, otherwise the game would drag on til no tomorrow.

Another completely valid option is that some protective role landed a hit or something, however it's not really good at all for anyone to claim with something as insubstantial as like "hey guys i did xyz during the night and maybe this happened whoops i claimed"

and again, i'm not saying to not look at what charu was thinking, just that assuming that there's a guaranteed wolf in charu's wolfreads is also not really a good way to go about things. Of course, given like, general statistics, there's probably a chance that there may be one, and if there's one thing that ffr twg players don't do as often as they should, it's look at dead player's reads.

Quote:

Man that's garbage, and I --------- actually that's angleshooting

But let's say gut tells me he's totally aware of the game and choosing not to play.
juckter was playing ffr quite a bit while not making any posts.

psychoangel also popped into the thread and didn't actually say much.

etc.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:51 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492798)
mindmeld on his choices for pressure/scum and him raging about xel makes me feel like he's genuinely frustrated about the state of the game and wants people to do stuff

To be fair, his "choices" were the only people really discussed at length yesterday.

I think MML's likely town, but more for tone than anything else.

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:53 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492801)
To be fair, his "choices" were the only people really discussed at length yesterday.

I think MML's likely town, but more for tone than anything else.

did anyone besides me actually discuss haku?

roundbox 11-12-2016 12:53 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
A little busy with parents visiting this weekend but I'll try

I really think there are third party roles this game MML, so I disagree with you there. I don't think your assumption that they don't exist is scummy, so you've got that going for you. However, you trying to instantly frame a lynch based on your two assumptions isn't healthy for you.

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 12:54 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
it's strange because haku usually manages to attract a lot of attention to himself regardless of alignment and he's just been passed over this game

yeah he replaced but there was plenty of time left

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 12:56 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492802)
did anyone besides me actually discuss haku?

I was the first to pressure Aryxi, and I discussed Haku with Haku.

My point is that his wolfleans were the ones that were already laid out on the table, so nothing special about a "mindmeld" there.

YoshL 11-12-2016 12:57 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roundbox (Post 4492803)
A little busy with parents visiting this weekend but I'll try

I really think there are third party roles this game MML, so I disagree with you there. I don't think your assumption that they don't exist is scummy, so you've got that going for you. However, you trying to instantly frame a lynch based on your two assumptions isn't healthy for you.

#mindmeld

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 12:58 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492797)
Hah, that's funny 'cause I actually thought it'd be funny if someone tinfoiled into that while I was typing it, but figured anyone with a semi-decent grasp of the language would understand that "other options" here relates to "wonder who was gonna die".

What's even funnier is that it isn't either of the options you gave, though. It wasn't a slip, and the "poor vocabulary" comment doesn't apply either because my sentence made grammatical sense. If anything, you could try faulting my word choice, but that still wouldn't apply because the original syntax was not incorrect.

Learn to read, bruh



You knew it looked funny and that someone could take that the wrong way

Yet decided before you hit send anyway because for whatever reason you liked the word choice

Just to say I could fault you for bad word choice when you get called on it, which again you kind of already knew that and decided it was fine before so ???????????

Fuck my ability to read it's my lack of understanding how someone could do those things for those reasons that's making me question you


Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492800)
Aye, i'm not saying to completely discount the assumption, just that it's not a very founded one. Given 20 players, and a mystery setup, shit happens. Even with a larger wolf team, you would expect more than 1 kp per night phase at the very least, otherwise the game would drag on til no tomorrow.

Another completely valid option is that some protective role landed a hit or something, however it's not really good at all for anyone to claim with something as insubstantial as like "hey guys i did xyz during the night and maybe this happened whoops i claimed"

and again, i'm not saying to not look at what charu was thinking, just that assuming that there's a guaranteed wolf in charu's wolfreads is also not really a good way to go about things. Of course, given like, general statistics, there's probably a chance that there may be one, and if there's one thing that ffr twg players don't do as often as they should, it's look at dead player's reads.


juckter was playing ffr quite a bit while not making any posts.

psychoangel also popped into the thread and didn't actually say much.

etc.


1: I like YoshL a little better now. Seems like he's calmed down and is trying.
2: Fuck those players too, but they each at least have one post or more IIRC.

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 01:00 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492805)
I was the first to pressure Aryxi, and I discussed Haku with Haku.

My point is that his wolfleans were the ones that were already laid out on the table, so nothing special about a "mindmeld" there.

oh

eh, I think it would be easy to throw in inactives like freezin did so I disagree, I see where you're coming from though

now about those similarities to hydra 7, and why you didn't want to push them until D2...?

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:08 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492799)
not sure why you'd assume there are no extra 3rd parties because there are plenty of 3rd party roles that don't have killing powers

like lyncher, for one

.....True.

Well fuck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492804)
it's strange because haku usually manages to attract a lot of attention to himself regardless of alignment and he's just been passed over this game

yeah he replaced but there was plenty of time left

Haku coming in seriously and trying not to post alot is kind of his wolftell. I think Turbo 6 I called him out on it really accurately when he was at 2 post.

The thing about voting him is that he just had the blunder of his life in Turbo 7, and I did kind of expect him to change his entire game regardless of roles after that. I want to see more from him, but if he doesn't ever get back to us I'm really OK with a Haku lynch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492805)
I was the first to pressure Aryxi, and I discussed Haku with Haku.

My point is that his wolfleans were the ones that were already laid out on the table, so nothing special about a "mindmeld" there.

Pretty sure I pointed out I thought I saw Haku's wolftell on the same page he first posted in.

Pretty sure I was the only one going at YoshL for awhile

Pretty sure I was the first one (or really early) to scumread DFR, and the first to vote for him.

Pretty sure I was one of the first to call out Freezin's big post as garbage

Pretty sure you're full of shit.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:10 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492808)
oh

eh, I think it would be easy to throw in inactives like freezin did so I disagree, I see where you're coming from though

now about those similarities to hydra 7, and why you didn't want to push them until D2...?

Re-read parts of hydra over the break in phases (man, that game is looong). The only similarity I could find in your half of the hydra was that your posts read townie, which is why I hadn't brought it up as soon as this phase started. Reading townie is wifom at best, so I'm content with keeping you at null for now. It was more of a feeling than anything yesterday, so I'm keeping an eye out, but that's pretty much all I can do at this point.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:15 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492807)
You knew it looked funny and that someone could take that the wrong way

Yet decided before you hit send anyway because for whatever reason you liked the word choice

Just to say I could fault you for bad word choice when you get called on it, which again you kind of already knew that and decided it was fine before so ???????????

Fuck my ability to read it's my lack of understanding how someone could do those things for those reasons that's making me question you

Again, it wasn't bad word choice. I hit send because I'm not gonna break my flow and edit my posts out of paranoia that someone might tinfoil too hard into the words "other options".

The only reason I even responded to your "sliiiiipp" post was because I had thought of the possibility occurring before it did.

As for your last sentence, that's impossible. That couldn't have been the reason you questioned me because I hadn't given "those reasons" before you did, so please don't try to use present knowledge to justify anything in the past.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:18 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
OK


1 - Charu has too many post for what little he actually was saying most of the time

2 - He was on Andy's nuts the last leg their after that "I'll toss a coin" post.
What's interesting is that, Andy being a new player, I can totally see Wolf Andy thinking he's been caught and trying to get rid of the only player who noticed. And fast!

Then again I can see someone more experience seeing that situation and thinking Ah yes easy framin' boys

Whole thing stinks. I do want to see more Andy posts though.

Also HEY V YOU GONNA PLAY NOW?

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:21 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492811)
Again, it wasn't bad word choice. I hit send because I'm not gonna break my flow and edit my posts out of paranoia that someone might tinfoil too hard into the words "other options".

The only reason I even responded to your "sliiiiipp" post was because I had thought of the possibility occurring before it did.

As for your last sentence, that's impossible. That couldn't have been the reason you questioned me because I hadn't given "those reasons" before you did, so please don't try to use present knowledge to justify anything in the past.

I'm not. The Justification of my first post is that it looked like a possible slip.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:22 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
V left.

Like a bitch

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:25 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492812)
He was on Andy's nuts the last leg their after that "I'll toss a coin" post.
What's interesting is that, Andy being a new player, I can totally see Wolf Andy thinking he's been caught and trying to get rid of the only player who noticed. And fast!

This is a faulty assumption because it negates the existence of an entire wolfteam would have had input into "Andy's decision".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492812)
Then again I can see someone more experience seeing that situation and thinking Ah yes easy framin' boys

Is that what you thought when you saw it, Lar?

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:28 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492815)
This is a faulty assumption because it negates the existence of an entire wolfteam would have had input into "Andy's decision".



Is that what you thought when you saw it, Lar?

1- Maybe, not if he's entire wolfteam is MIA though.
2- You can tell Shado's serious because he bothered to typed Lar.
3- And no, when I first saw it I thought that Wolf Andy was likely, but it dawned on me that would be a stupid assumption to make.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:30 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I typed he's instead of his

Truly I have reached new lows in English

danceflashrevo 11-12-2016 01:37 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Okay I'm not reading the thread yet. Sorry I've been gone, I've worked very hard on a project that's being presented at MIT into the late hours, I'm exhausted blah blah blah excuses I'll save you the sob story. Grill me while I'm gone, I'll respond when I wake up, hopefully feeling refreshed.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:43 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492816)
1- Maybe, not if he's entire wolfteam is MIA though.
2- You can tell Shado's serious because he bothered to typed Lar.
3- And no, when I first saw it I thought that Wolf Andy was likely, but it dawned on me that would be a stupid assumption to make.

1. If every wolf except one is MIA, I will rant for hours again in both deadchat and postgame. TOO. MANY. WAAAAALLS. will be the dying cry of everyone who will have to suffer my presence in those threads.

2. Yeah, sorta.

3. Fair enough.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:45 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492819)
1. If every wolf except one is MIA, I will rant for hours again in both deadchat and postgame. TOO. MANY. WAAAAALLS. will be the dying cry of everyone who will have to suffer my presence in those threads.

I'll be right there with you. Shit is garbage

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:46 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo (Post 4492818)
Okay I'm not reading the thread yet. Sorry I've been gone, I've worked very hard on a project that's being presented at MIT into the late hours, I'm exhausted blah blah blah excuses I'll save you the sob story. Grill me while I'm gone, I'll respond when I wake up, hopefully feeling refreshed.

You think the fact that the project is being presented at MIT makes any difference here?!

It does, and I hate how much it does.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:47 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo (Post 4492818)
Okay I'm not reading the thread yet. Sorry I've been gone, I've worked very hard on a project that's being presented at MIT into the late hours, I'm exhausted blah blah blah excuses I'll save you the sob story. Grill me while I'm gone, I'll respond when I wake up, hopefully feeling refreshed.

Hey, I appreciate the check in

Just now that I have great expectations for you when you return in hopefully a timely manner and not like at EoD or the next phase or some shit

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 01:49 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Hey Xel, Haku

How have you guys been?

Just hangin' out for the last 20 minutes I see

Must be nice over there where y'all at.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 01:58 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492779)
because like I said, I had a bad impression of your posting and then youc ame in and just voted one of the top wagons

coming in right at the end and just plopping a vote on throws up red flags for me in general and I was tinfoiling on xel/freezin so it seemed like opportunistic scum

but after rereading your posts I think my impression was wrong, your posts don't lean me strongly either way and certainly not enough to vote you right now

I do want to see what contributions you have to make though, and the part about you not wanting to bring up "similarities to the hydra game until d2" sounds gross, explain?

Oh, just saw this while rereading.
Rip lol

Whelp, we covered it already, after you had to ask a second time (lol)

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 02:05 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Ok well my fish are baked and it doesn't seem like the majority of people here are wanting to post anyway

So I'll check in later.

andy-o24 11-12-2016 02:08 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I'll catch up on the thread when I get to work in about an hour. Charu seems weird though, I agree.

-o24

Hakulyte 11-12-2016 02:17 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
I think you guys should discuss about creating a lynch pool of inactives and use these interactions as a mean to continue the game in the right direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendetta21 (Post 4492131)
One note on lynching inactives early as a policy approach is that the town has a great deal less control over which inactive dies than the wolves do at this point, so the policy will strongly favor wolf influence (since it will only take one or two posts) and policy lynching is also just weak play because it doesn't create new interactions between you and them.

While that true, I think it's a bad idea to keep ignoring them "hoping they will eventually get active". It's also giving you all the chance to see what the others think about it.

Hakulyte 11-12-2016 03:07 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
The rest of my game atm if I had time would be to reread the thread with Charu and FreezinIce flips in mind and compare their interactions with everyone.

Also, a "follow the vote" could be interesting for tracking purposes.

The problem with me right now is that I really shouldn't even be here right now, I should be sleeping. I hoped for some quick interactions, but I'm barely seeing anyone right now.

So yeah, I would currently priorize a low poster lynch while considering all of the above.

I understand that this is all general/obvious things and that you're hoping to see where I stand exactly, but I really simply am not even in a state to keep up with the game right now.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 03:15 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4492829)
I think you guys should discuss about creating a lynch pool of inactives and use these interactions as a mean to continue the game in the right direction.



While that true, I think it's a bad idea to keep ignoring them "hoping they will eventually get active". It's also giving you all the chance to see what the others think about it.

Hi Haku. I hope you're enjoying your vacation!
How're things going? Doing well? Internet speeds alright? Tired of rolling wolf yet?

Why is it, "I think you guys should discuss" instead of "I think we should create a pool of inactives"?
Why are you certain that lynching inactives is "the right direction"?

What does, "It's also giving you all the chance to see what the others think about it." mean?

No vote, yet. I think there's a faint possibility you could be a tired town Haku, so I'ma wait this out. My questions about your well-being were genuine, btw, as was my question about you rolling woof.

ShadoWolfe 11-12-2016 03:17 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4492830)
The rest of my game atm if I had time would be to reread the thread with Charu and FreezinIce flips in mind and compare their interactions with everyone.

Also, a "follow the vote" could be interesting for tracking purposes.

The problem with me right now is that I really shouldn't even be here right now, I should be sleeping. I hoped for some quick interactions, but I'm barely seeing anyone right now.

So yeah, I would currently priorize a low poster lynch while considering all of the above.

I understand that this is all general/obvious things and that you're hoping to see where I stand exactly, but I really simply am not even in a state to keep up with the game right now.

This makes sense. I'm so glad you posted this before you left. I'm here for a quick interaction, if you'd like. I understand you haven't kept up with the game, though, so what would you like to gain from this interaction? Feel free to ask me any questions about the game, btw.

andy-o24 11-12-2016 04:05 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
So, I was moved to a new area, there was a super drunk dude who made a run for it, but I think we've caught him, and there is this handicapped scanner thing for opening doors that is beeping randomly and University Police don't know how to stop it. Fun night.

Here's some spicy WIFOM for you:
Charu attacked my weak EOD play, calling me a wolf.
Wolves know I'm town, so getting other town to lynch me saves a wolf through this next phase.
To convince the town I'm a wolf, they kill Charu who was the only one really suspecting I am a wolf, in an attempt to show Charu was onto a wolf read.

As for the coin flip thing: I was really at a toss-up between who I thought was most scummy, Xel or Freezin. I didn't actually flip the coin. I felt Freezin's attempts to admonish himself from our scrutiny were heartfelt and Xel I didn't get the same read from. Therefore, vote on Xel.

-o24

Pazzaz 11-12-2016 04:35 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Ok guys, I'm alive! My role kind of kept me from posting the first day, sorry for not being part of it, I'll post a long post with my thoughts later today.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 04:50 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4492829)
I think you guys should discuss about creating a lynch pool of inactives and use these interactions as a mean to continue the game in the right direction.

Lynching inactives is never going into the right direction. We still have active-enough scumleans to examine that we don't need to start trying to lynch from an inactive pool 40-some-odd-hours away from EoD.

Also inactives+interactions in that sentence is pretty.....contradictory? Yeah I'll go with that.

Haku, I know you're on vacation. When do you think you can seriously sit down and make a somewhat serious post? Even if it just covers like 5 players, I want to see it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4492836)
So, I was moved to a new area, there was a super drunk dude who made a run for it, but I think we've caught him, and there is this handicapped scanner thing for opening doors that is beeping randomly and University Police don't know how to stop it. Fun night.

What fucking job do you have rofl

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4492836)
Here's some spicy WIFOM for you:
Charu attacked my weak EOD play, calling me a wolf.
Wolves know I'm town, so getting other town to lynch me saves a wolf through this next phase.
To convince the town I'm a wolf, they kill Charu who was the only one really suspecting I am a wolf, in an attempt to show Charu was onto a wolf read.

Wow

Woooowww

For a new guy to just come up with this is kind'O weird.

First off, why even make the point right now? No one seriously thinks thought it was you. I came the closest but ultimately admitted that would be a stupid assumption and left it be. You could be commenting on literally every other aspect of the game right now, but chose, out of EoD and this phase's start, to really try to address why you've probably been framed.

Second, that's hella specific for most anyone in this game to just come up with and use in a post. It reads like you (or someone else) have put alot of time into making it believable. Maybe I'm reading a little deep into that since point number 1 is making me suspicious of it, but I'm probably not reading too deep when I say that---

Third, you had a shit EoD regardless of rather you flipped the coin or not (saying you are going to flip a coin does not help the rest of town) and following that up with nothing but defense and no additional thoughts does not look good on you, no matter who you are.

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 04:51 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pazzaz (Post 4492838)
Ok guys, I'm alive! My role kind of kept me from posting the first day, sorry for not being part of it, I'll post a long post with my thoughts later today.

Hold on a minute


If we're going to talk about roles that prevent you from being active in a game that is very dependent of interactions and activity you are going to have to sale that a little harder then that.

andy-o24 11-12-2016 05:14 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492839)
What fucking job do you have rofl

I work "night" desk staff at the University in the residence halls. Night is a misnomer as it is from 12:00 AM - 8:00 AM, though they are changing it to 7:30 AM soon. Pretty much get paid more than minimum wage to sit around. Some mornings are more exciting than others, case in point this one.
Quote:

For a new guy to just come up with this is kind'O weird.

Second, that's hella specific for most anyone in this game to just come up with and use in a post. It reads like you (or someone else) have put alot of time into making it believable. Maybe I'm reading a little deep into that since point number 1 is making me suspicious of it, but I'm probably not reading too deep when I say that---
How is that weird? It seemed logical. The only person who put some thought into it was me, because I assumed AA, who imo is strongest town right now, would be the night kill and I would have to argue with Charu about my EOD play. Because I don't have to argue with Charu about it, I figured why the hell not bring it up myself?

My EOD play was going to be shit regardless of whether I posted the coin flip idea or not. In my mind, someone in thread at EOD and who has been at least somewhat active in the discussion would draw more attention to themselves having not voted than voted. So I knew for my sake given that idea I needed a vote on someone. Two wagons were popular, I found myself on one instead of the other because of the rationale in my previous post.

Further analysis? Nothing as of yet. As I said, Charu kill is weird and I gave potential wolf rationale for it. I'll have to go back and refocus on some individual players given what I now know and see how others react. If you want to keep grilling me over my EOD play, feel free. You and I both know I had no experience at that phase prior to that one, and clearly I don't know what I'm doing. I don't regret the coin flip post though, gotta learn somehow.

-o24

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 05:59 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492810)
Re-read parts of hydra over the break in phases (man, that game is looong). The only similarity I could find in your half of the hydra was that your posts read townie, which is why I hadn't brought it up as soon as this phase started. Reading townie is wifom at best, so I'm content with keeping you at null for now. It was more of a feeling than anything yesterday, so I'm keeping an eye out, but that's pretty much all I can do at this point.

Lmao so you'd potentially scumread me for my posts seeming townie? Ok

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 06:01 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4492842)
How is that weird? It seemed logical. The only person who put some thought into it was me, because I assumed AA, who imo is strongest town right now, would be the night kill and I would have to argue with Charu about my EOD play. Because I don't have to argue with Charu about it, I figured why the hell not bring it up myself?

Except I already brought it up, so that weakens the impact of you trying to lampshade it.



Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4492842)
My EOD play was going to be shit regardless of whether I posted the coin flip idea or not. In my mind, someone in thread at EOD and who has been at least somewhat active in the discussion would draw more attention to themselves having not voted than voted. So I knew for my sake given that idea I needed a vote on someone. Two wagons were popular, I found myself on one instead of the other because of the rationale in my previous post.

Andy

For me to buy that you are town and not a coached wolf, I have to assume that you are extremely sharpwitted and pick up on the subtle aspects of this game with a quickness. That's believable to a degree.

But here, you justify your bad EoD because you where trying to draw less attention by voting. Why would a town player worry about that? Especially in your case when there was not a wagon on you.

If you'd exercised the thought process you had displayed with trying to clear yourself of the Charu kill, or when you caught the host making a mistake, you would have probably concluded that it is in town's best interest to weigh the options even to the last second logically and vote your conscience, posting honest thoughts in real time to allow feedback from others.

Instead you joke about flipping a coin? And justify it by Not wanting to draw attention? Why would town give a FUCK about that at that point in time with as little pressure as you had?

Andy you've already proved you are better then that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-o24 (Post 4492842)
Further analysis? Nothing as of yet. As I said, Charu kill is weird and I gave potential wolf rationale for it. I'll have to go back and refocus on some individual players given what I now know and see how others react. If you want to keep grilling me over my EOD play, feel free. You and I both know I had no experience at that phase prior to that one, and clearly I don't know what I'm doing. I don't regret the coin flip post though, gotta learn somehow.

-o24

You should regret that

It was horrible

MixMasterLar 11-12-2016 06:02 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Oh hey AA. Tell me what you think of Andy. I'll read it later though Imma go to bed

Oh and Hey V PLAY THE FUCKING GAME PLEASE KTHX

Pazzaz 11-12-2016 06:10 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492840)
Hold on a minute


If we're going to talk about roles that prevent you from being active in a game that is very dependent of interactions and activity you are going to have to sale that a little harder then that.

Ok, I've been thinking about the consequences of what I'm about to say, I hope this provides clarity. I thought about keeping this a secret but I will have to say this before the EOD incase I die so here's the truth.
I couldn't speak D0 but instead I received the ability to switch the positions of two people at the beginning of N1. I switched AragakiAyase and Charu. This is why several people reacted weird, they thought AA was gonna die or atleast not that Charu was gonna die. So if I die as town, AA is confirmed town (or the wolves tried to kill one of their own lol).

TL;DR AragakiAyase IS CONFIRMED TOWN FOR ME


From now on I'm normal townie and will be scumhunting. I'll post my thoughts about everyone later.

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 06:26 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Oh what the fuck

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 06:26 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
So were you scumreading charu?

Pazzaz 11-12-2016 06:33 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492848)
So were you scumreading charu?

No not really, that was not why I chose him. Yes, choosing a scum and a townie and the scum then dying would have been good but the chances for that happening would be pretty low. If I choose two people who are probably townies, if one of them die then I'll know the other is a townie too. I didn't want to throw my ability way and have it not affecting anything.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:46 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Alright so I have no idea when these phases start and end so don't mind me.

Just read what I missed from EoD post, going to catch up just from there for now and try to do some isolations later if I have the dedication to sit through it all.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:48 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Confused at the first progression between AA/YoshL, maybe it'll be explained later during this read.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:50 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492775)
i guess, semi-developed as in, semblance of being pushed on in the past, and also like, something that i at least, didn't disagree with, for a lack of a better expression as of right now.

zenith was i guess the other option, but honestly i didn't really pay attention to much of what he said, because of him getting angry, my history of altercations with him, and gut

I'm just angry at the shit I got (beyond actually being IRL Unhappy making it's way into my posts didn't help at all) when I've established my thoughts on d0 and they didn't want to hear it so at that point I no longer care.

I wouldn't have worried about actually accusing me though.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:51 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492776)
Also a Charu nk makes no sense to me. AA was strongest town for most, and Charu didnt seem like he was blue. He was playing totally normal

Okay? Let me tack this in my notebook right here that says "FLUFF POSTS"

AragakiAyase 11-12-2016 06:51 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pazzaz (Post 4492849)
No not really, that was not why I chose him. Yes, choosing a scum and a townie and the scum then dying would have been good but the chances for that happening would be pretty low. If I choose two people who are probably townies, if one of them die then I'll know the other is a townie too. I didn't want to throw my ability way and have it not affecting anything.

I don't really follow

if you pick a townie and a scum, and the townie is targeted but the scum ends up dying, don't you get a similar result of the townie being pseudo confirmed? I think your claim is believable but just trying to make sense of this

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:53 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492778)
Oh, and now that we're past D0, I'd like Zenith to know that his "I hate d0 bullshit" excuse for not doing shit won't fly anymore.

Here I am, don't start your bitching either.

It's just d0. That's why I like to replace (beyond actually having a dedicated replacement for games is kind of nice), although, the last time I replaced it was at the tail end of d0 and I wasn't happy.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:54 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492780)
mindmeld, a good sign hopefully

Shit you too? Flufferino.

Though, liked your previous post before this one.

Pazzaz 11-12-2016 06:57 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492855)
I don't really follow

if you pick a townie and a scum, and the townie is targeted but the scum ends up dying, don't you get a similar result of the townie being pseudo confirmed? I think your claim is believable but just trying to make sense of this

Yes you're right but if I choose two townies the chance that one of them would be a wolf target doubles. Even then, there was still a chance that none of them would be chosen.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:58 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492782)
Only one nightkill? and it's fucking Charu?

So it looks like that A: there probably isn't a third party and B: Charu was right about somebody.

Don't even comprehend this logical string.

Right before the day started I was re-reading EoD and saw that Charu said that. It blew my mind and I wish I would have called him out for it sooner.

That said, he was VT, so I have no earthly idea what he was thinking there.

Wasn't here for this so that's my fault.

I would love to hear an explanation for this



It's shitty that he got modkilled for only copying a part of his PM.

I mean, rules are rules and I mean no disrespect to Sunfan, but wow. I don't really know how to feel about that.

You feel nothing. It happened. Get over it. Yes, sucks a town got modkilled, but everyone knows better than to copy any text from role PM.

Having been at EoD and knowing how fast and lose it was, I doubt a scum Xel threw this out there to look more towny super last second. As far as I care Xel can be welcomed into the Strong Town Pile of Town People.

This makes those who where pushing super hard early on super suspect.

Okay, I need to see this Xel post because this isn't the first mention of a huge swing.

Freaking why? Please explain this. The timing is really bad for this vote considering the timestamp and wagons that where going on. You're normally a champion of picking between ongoing wagons tbh



Hold on, am I missing a post or wheren't you the one that was copying YoshL?
Although I want to hear both of you give a reason to switch last second.

My comments in bold above.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 06:59 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492784)
I'm going to sleep soon, but notice that someone should go check if shado made any reads on charu for one

and for two, question why you were apparantly processing charu as "not blue" during d0

Agreeing with this sentiment.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:01 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492785)
That was for Zenith

Utterly confused at what you are directing this post to.

Like saying over there? No way over there! You went too far!

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:02 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492794)
I guess a third party (or for that matter, wolves) didn't kill/roleblock/item use/whatever, and Charu could have just been a randomed kill/someone knowing how good he tends to magically get d2-3 and wanting to get rid of the problem ahead of time.

But all the same, I'll assume we have a larger wolveteam and no 3rd parties until we see another nightkill. And looking at Charu's post can't hurt.



Man that's garbage, and I --------- actually that's angleshooting

But let's say gut tells me he's totally aware of the game and choosing not to play.

Pazzaz You're reading this, right? Get in here

This entire post made me vomit.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:05 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492795)
watching MML fixate on supposed slips makes me dump him into the town pile for good tbh.

I'm looking at my general feelings towards the players in the game, and it's either null, or town leaning to varying degrees.

I have to commentate osu stuff tomorrow, so I'll be probably attempt to iso people for the first time fucking ever because it feels weird having like a bunch of strong town leans, and no real substance on any scum (AragakiAyase, roundbox, MixMasterLar, XelNya, Vendetta21 for anyone's reference)

feel free to yell at me if i don't actually iso people

Oh?

Questioning if you are hesitant (can't believe I'm about to say this) about shoving someone down in the ground and calling them wolf. Then again, I've only kept a thin line of acknowledging and reading a healthy amount of d0, so I don't know how you are progressing through reading people yet.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:06 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492797)
Hah, that's funny 'cause I actually thought it'd be funny if someone tinfoiled into that while I was typing it, but figured anyone with a semi-decent grasp of the language would understand that "other options" here relates to "wonder who was gonna die".

What's even funnier is that it isn't either of the options you gave, though. It wasn't a slip, and the "poor vocabulary" comment doesn't apply either because my sentence made grammatical sense. If anything, you could try faulting my word choice, but that still wouldn't apply because the original syntax was not incorrect.

Learn to read, bruh

+1???

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:07 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492799)
not sure why you'd assume there are no extra 3rd parties because there are plenty of 3rd party roles that don't have killing powers

like lyncher, for one

Thank you

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:09 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoshL (Post 4492800)
Aye, i'm not saying to completely discount the assumption, just that it's not a very founded one. Given 20 players, and a mystery setup, shit happens. Even with a larger wolf team, you would expect more than 1 kp per night phase at the very least, otherwise the game would drag on til no tomorrow.

Another completely valid option is that some protective role landed a hit or something, however it's not really good at all for anyone to claim with something as insubstantial as like "hey guys i did xyz during the night and maybe this happened whoops i claimed"

and again, i'm not saying to not look at what charu was thinking, just that assuming that there's a guaranteed wolf in charu's wolfreads is also not really a good way to go about things. Of course, given like, general statistics, there's probably a chance that there may be one, and if there's one thing that ffr twg players don't do as often as they should, it's look at dead player's reads.


juckter was playing ffr quite a bit while not making any posts.

psychoangel also popped into the thread and didn't actually say much.

etc.

Had to double take on this post for a moment in bolded but I really enjoy this post.

A little shocked you have these two (one of which was replaced by this time) but not me. I had what, <10 posts throughout d0?

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:10 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4492801)
To be fair, his "choices" were the only people really discussed at length yesterday.

I think MML's likely town, but more for tone than anything else.

K E K

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:10 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase (Post 4492802)
did anyone besides me actually discuss haku?

Ultimately nobody wants to do this. Hats off to you.

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:11 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roundbox (Post 4492803)
A little busy with parents visiting this weekend but I'll try

I really think there are third party roles this game MML, so I disagree with you there. I don't think your assumption that they don't exist is scummy, so you've got that going for you. However, you trying to instantly frame a lynch based on your two assumptions isn't healthy for you.

Again, thank you

_Zenith_ 11-12-2016 07:14 AM

Re: TWG CLX If Emblem was a bad employee Game Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 4492807)
You knew it looked funny and that someone could take that the wrong way

Yet decided before you hit send anyway because for whatever reason you liked the word choice

Just to say I could fault you for bad word choice when you get called on it, which again you kind of already knew that and decided it was fine before so ???????????

Fuck my ability to read it's my lack of understanding how someone could do those things for those reasons that's making me question you

1: I like YoshL a little better now. Seems like he's calmed down and is trying.
2: Fuck those players too, but they each at least have one post or more IIRC.

Oh well? Some of us just don't care to nitpick ourselves with word choice? Like stop being a bitch about it.

Someone already commented before this about your reading comprehension being garbage so maybe not actually dissuade your mind from thinking you're bad and try to get better.

2. *glorified opinion*


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