Re: TWG Turbo 29 Game Thread
 

I'll be at best sporadic the next few hours, primetime Europe, got stuff to do ! :P

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bleh

going to reset reads and try to figure something out since I will be gone 7-10 and may even miss EOD

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before I forget, quas/pozzai what are your mafia experience? as in the game, not the alignment

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Yeah but raeko is a dead flipped villager idgaf about your reads on them anymore

What are your anti alignments and current living players

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Plethoras

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums.../3444-LordQuas

I feel like nobody actually checks this stuff when linked but here ya go

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Trying to be active as I can btw but I have class all morning

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oh boy GOAT tier lol that's all I need to see

You said charu is your top along with shadow, if one of your townreads is wrong who do you think it is?

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Literal 50/50 between you and pozzai

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raeko (1)- Quas
Quas (2)- Xiz, raeko
Shadow_God (1)- Dusk
Duskfall (3)- Shadow_God, ffa, AA
No vote - Pozzai, Charu

Shadow_God (1)- Quas
Pozzai (1)- ffa
ffa (4)- AA, Charu, Shadow_God, raeko
Charu (1)- Pozzai

minor wagonomics analysis before I go and revisit my reads

The no votes on d1 are unfortunate but w/e, if the team is pozzai/charu then that's pretty funny and they saved themselves a day by being inactive :|

I had hoped looking at this would give me more but I don't think I can safely say if there were 1 or 2 scum on FFA's wagon. His play didn't make him easy to townread and set himself up for the mislynch pretty easily so a pozz/quas team isn't out of the question, but I think it's unlikely.

I think the only useful thing I take away from this is that of the 1-vote wagons, if any of them flip wolf then I probably clear the other. Between quas and pozzai I would feel better about quas mostly due to tone when he voiced reasoning for the vote

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what do you think of pozz read on charu that he's being "soft" in his interactions?

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Shadow can you talk to me about your FFA/poptart townreads at this point? At this point FFA had 8 posts and they were pretty much all shitposts. Is the poptart read a meta one where you think a wolf poptart would have been tuned into the game?

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I don't like, disagree

But at the same time I don't really think this has been a game of a lot of interactions at all if I'm honest

It is a weird line of pressure and I'm not sure I agree with it

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Idgaf about you not gafing, if you read that post again the very first line does say "not a lot outside Raeko" following up in my next post with "apart from what I feel of people's interactions with me".

I gave you my thought processes and manners in which I inquired with the purpose of expanding them, you then have the option to keep that in mind when/if you reread the game, or to completely ignore it, suit yourself.

Yesterday was a shitshow of a day in regards to actually get read cause the day was essentially "over" after an hour in terms of the lynch having been decided.
The only thing I really remember as slightly tickling my anti-alignment/alignment radar was AA's progress on Charu, when he pops in going "I think Charu is partners with FFA, oh now he scumreads him, hmm, maybe he's the town and Pozzai is the partner"
It is slightly "theatrical" of a read to give on a partner, about a townflip coming up, but it's exceedingly weak.

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Slightly more videomafia than forum.
I think I'm probably around 80ish forum games.

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Charu just hasn't been around much at all to interact

They kind of drop posts and go if I'm remembering more correctly, which I do think can be an indicator of a wolf but that didn't seem to be what pozzai was referring to?

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I just don't think what you posted was all that useful honestly. Seemed like a lot of words to say what could have been said in maybe 3 sentences

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I'll repeat what I said yesterday, wagonomics yesterday means literally nothing, as FFA was always dying. There's never been a better time for a busvote than scum!Pozzai on scum!Charu because it was utterly meaningless in terms of pressure or risk.

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no votes have been cast

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Bump

If wagons were at all competitive I was going to end day on ffa as well. I just didn't want to hammer

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You can pop in and drop posts, and still be putting some kind of aggression or confrontation towards someone in the game.

It's the latter I miss, some kind of "oomph" from their posts some agency and urgency in trying to deal with players to determine their alignment, it really comes back to what I largely disliked about AA yesterday.

Towns tend to not give a fuck about how they come off to people, they want to figure out, scum tends to try to avoid outright confrontation if possible because it might come off as scummy.

Shadow largely suffers from the same problem and I keep flip-flopping a bit on them.
Shadow kind of just went "yeah my vote on Dusk looks bad, my bad" which I really liked at the time, it wasn't defensive of his action, but more just like "yeah what's one gonna do about it".

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Raeko who was on Charu with me also made it very clear they wanted FFA dead.

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I remember why I stopped playing mafia because ISOs take way too long

Shadow - His D1 was pretty lackluster but so was pretty much everyone's. I threw him into the townpile off of tone/willingness to interact me, but on reread it's a weak read on my part and largely due to most people being gone. One post does ping me a bit:

This was quoting this post: which was in response to FFA saying something pinged him about quas trying to fit in. The progression to the "please kill me, thanks" doesn't really make sense to me. I think towns can get frustrated when the game is hard to solve and want to get out of the game, but wolves don't usually have that feeling, at least not genuinely. At this point in the game not a ton of people were posting but I don't think the game was "hard" enough to warrant this as town, so it reads to me like a wolf trying to mimic that town sentiment. Shadow what prompted that post on D1?

D2 there's this post:

and then this one after that:

Charu is noticeably absent here and he's definitely contributed enough at this point to at least throw him in null? It feels like a very odd omission especially given the small size of this game.

When Mellon/pozzai are talking about Charu's play as T/W he does comment, but it's only to say that it's hard for him to read him.

This post feels a bit overdone to me, but that's purely a tone read. there were a couple others that stood out similarly


I don't have a ton to go off of shadow. He still reads ok to me initially, and my vibe is that he doesn't have 100+ games of mafia like some of us do. The biggest sticking point to me is how he essentially refuses to touch charu d2 and then some tone issues towards EOD2. Gonna try to do pozz -> quas -> charu for no particular reason

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Oh right, now I remember what the thing I had stuck in the back of my head was.

Assume a scum team of AA and Shadow:

Do they decide to go day1 with AA just being like "I'm sheeping Shadow" on a misslynch right out the gate? It's fairly powerwolfy.

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I also feel like there's very little reason for both scum!AA and scum!Shadow to end up on the same Dusk wagon, when the counter wagon is town!Quas

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I think I'm actually fairly okay'ish eliminating a scum team of AA and Shadow now... Hmmm.

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is this because of my post or your two posts before this?

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My own thoughts :p

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Like, I'm not superimpressed with the Shadow iso of yours, but, like there's not a whole lot to work with. Why did you have him so highly regarded as town day1?

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Nvm this, somehow I missed your first paragraph.

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yeah it's definitely not a great read, it's more that we had 3 people with 1 post between them, dusk with 4, FFA was mostly afk, xiz had vanished...

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No one left had any greater experience with Shadow, right?

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only mellon gave a meta read on shadow and it was largely inconclusive

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Morning! I'm gonna do some catching up and see where we stand. I DO believe we have to hit a wolf TODAY or else we lose? or am I incorrect here?

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We have to hit both wolves in a row, correct.

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Well, seeing as Raeko died last night. I have absolutely no knowledge on anyone. I might have read the one game that Aragaki was in but that doesn't help me AT ALL in this game.

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I wanted to look into this if Raeko were still alive, but sadly that's not possibly seeing as I believe she laid the hammer down on FFA.

I literally have to reset reads and think about people

I'm gonna do a couple ISOs and see where that gets me before I have to go to work

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Honestly I think charus case on ffa has that oomph you were looking for. It was relatively early on ffa as well so not just pure bandwagoning

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I do 100% agree on shadow having that villagery spice but that could easily just be a player thing tbh

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Poptart literally signed up by accident and posted once....Actually... Now that I think about it, and now I want to run this in circles in my head... The last game Poptart rolled wolf he was grossly inactive and I BELIEVE had to be replaced..

Second verse same as the first maybe?


As for FFA at the time (and now I regret sticking to my instant gut here) I feel like FFA is a little lazy as town and I took that in the wrong way and thought he was wolfing to emulate his town game

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If you want to get more meta on me you're free to try and read some of my games but uh

Good luck

I like posting

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Again, he's talking about FFA, he's not probing FFA. He's not digging his claws into people trying to drain information about them, he's.. Distant?

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I feel like every wolf team I can reasonably see has 1 of charu/shadow

AA I only see with charu

Pozzai honestly I see with either charu or shadow. Tho I would be surprised to see him with charu more based off his recent push. Bussing charu here wouldn't be 100% out of the question but it does feel like a misplay

Charu and shadow could totally be with each other


These are like my 4 worlds right now

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Okay so I just saw the ISO that Aragaki made on me, and I completely forgot about Charu being in the game at the time of making it. There was no rhyme or reason to it, I just miscounted how many people were left

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Actually this reminds me of something I've heard a fair bit about wolf charu, he has this tendency to bus his partners a fair amount

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ohhhh I see what you mean now

yeah that's a good point but I don't think shadow is any better in that regard either

What are your thoughts on shadow

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Other way around, try again

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Nani?

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this definitely used to be the case, especially when I was more active, but I remember there was one game where charu didn't bus and everyone was shocked and it won him the game

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Pozzai is pushing charu, not charu pushing poz

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If we read Charu as wolf this game, I believe the chances of him being bussed to be pretty low as the other wolf is just as deep right now.

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Ah. gotcha

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You and charu are the main POE. If one of poz or aa is a woofer I see them bussing someone in the POE as a distinct possibility

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Again, correct play is almost always to not bus but doing so could be a good unexpected play to win in f3 with

Want to make sure ppl remember this when I'm inevitably NKed

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I feel like its correct for one of charu or shadow to vote first?

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Wait no votes not locked doesn't really matter nvm nvm

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probably but charu isn't even here

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Well we're in no rush

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Can you just straight unvote?

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Aight so a good classic read is see what players aren't invested in lylo as they're prolly wolves

And again all those signs point to shadow and charu

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My thoughts on Shadow currently is I kind of hope they're just scum with Charu and game is easy?

I feel like I posted this before, but Shadow kind of took responsibility of his bad vote timing from day1 in a very "ah well, that does look bad, shit happens" kind of way, which I was okay with, it didn't feel defensive, but that's like literally all I have.

I don't in any way disagree with Shadow being very much alike with Charu in regards of being slightly distant, I kind of moved Shadow down again on my list, because the things that made me consider Shadow-AA not likely teamed, was coming from AA.

Like, I can find more scummy things AA has done in my opinion, but that's because AA actually have done stuff?

I'll be honest, with both Shadow and Charu, I am grasping at straws, I am kind of at the point where I still think you're town, and maybe I should just /follow whoever you vote because I can't help you differentiate the two, and if I'm wrong on you, I'm likely actively losing the game today anyways.

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Fuck I just feel like shadow/charu team is TOO easy

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yes, I've seen some people try to vote and then u nvote in the hopes of baiting wolves here lmao

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This is towny as fuck wavering. See the above post I have about being invested in EoD. This is like exactly what I would expect a town to do in EoD

I might just vote one of charu/shadow at this point honestly. All my town reads are here and if one of you two are a wolf we probably lose the game if not today than in f3 anyways so

Just gotta decide which one between them

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Shh don't give away my plan

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Sometimes easy is correct, but I agree.

2 "dead" slots day1 + overall inactivity from another few slots, a dead day2, resulting in two misslynches and game is "easy" day3? It's just, that's just not the case, right? =/

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I see you haven't played on our site much, there's a lot of lazy wolves in the community (sorry not sorry)

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Can you talk to me about why AA is town?

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like I'm thinking of one game that I think yoshl hosted, I think it was related to the olympics, where all the wolves hardcored slanked and town cannibalized itself

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I'm not "invested" because I'm actually getting ready for work.

I mean, if you want a wagon rolling I'd be more than happy to start one :)

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I think they had some really shitty pushes on them d2

D1 they were trying when other ppl weren't

Today they've put in arguably more work than anyone, and again feel genuinely invested

Also if they're a wolf the only player I think they can be with is exactly charu

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Holdup

If I'm town reading you I think that means all my worlds have charu wolf

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Are you absolutely sure with me that shadow/aa is not a possible world

Because I'm heavily leaning to agree with you there but

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small points to pozz here for the way he's thinking about the nightkill here, I like how he tries to consider how different worlds fit in but doesn't use that as a big basis for his read. I think scum who make a nightkill to fit an agenda often try to push that agenda with reasoning like "well X was scumreading Y so Y killed X which makes them WoLF!!!!!" and I don't get that vibe here

there's a bit of pozzai interacting with mellon/shadow/charu that looks ok. He mentions that mellon seems more held back, talks to shadow about anti-alignments, and responds to charu about FFA. I guess it's not actually that much, but it leads into his reads list pretty well:

I think the overall positioning of the reads is solid, but what I'm more interested is in how he handles them over time. I like how he has movement in them with quas going up and me going down because I think that's a natural things for town to do. As the game progresses and people do things I would hope that it affects your read of them, and what I've often noticed wolves do is have more static reads and try to fit a person's behavior into a read, rather than the other way around.

the one thing I don't like is the hedging on FFA. At this point Charu had already made his case for FFA and it feels like pozzai doesn't want to attach himself to a mislynch here. If charu is wolf then I think pozzai definitely has partner equity as its a case of both wolves not wanting to hard push the mislynch. If charu is town I think pozzai can still be wolf from this since he's adding some weight to the case but soft defends him too.

He pushes me some on me not pushing my neutrals enough. I like this cause it does have some of that spice to it where he's getting in my face about something that he perceives as potentially wolfy.

this post is good because he's already trying to think of pairings. I think wolves have to work harder to "look" for pairings since there's no actual need for them to do so and pozz feels pretty organic here

This post is interesting since it takes away a lot of what I had said about pozzai soft defending FFA but letting him die. I feel like it's a wolfy thing to do that a wolf wouldn't want to draw attention to, so him calling it out and just letting it sit is a better look.

I also like this post; at the moment raeko is in the town pile and charu is in the nulls. Interacting with the nulls is good, but interacting with townreads to help solve the nulls is an extra step that towns are more likely to do. I think it's a red flag if pozz uses what mellon says to toss charu in the scum pile too quickly but that doesn't happen

too lazy to actually quote all the D3 posts but he's digging and being invested at lylo is always a + as someone already mentioned.

I think he's town; his progression on his reads makes sense and his push on me was villagery, although I do wish he had pushed it a *little* bit more. He's actively thinking about a lot of worlds and trying to solve his ???s

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I'm running a d&d game like 2 hours before EoD btw so I do have to make sure this day is over by thrn

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Aa so you're exactly shadow/charu world as well?

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It's never "guaranteed", it's a lot "playing the odds"

I think in 80%+(yes number pulled out my ass) a scumteam doesn't interact in the manner they did. You're essentially counting on hard setting up a misslynch your entire team leads day1, and survive to win the game?

It's not unheard of, but overall I think I win more games than I lose by just saying "that's not a team"

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I'm gonna finish this class reak quick but I'm considering asking aa to vote charu

Pozz this seem like a good idea? I really don't want to fucking throw

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I haven't gone through your ISO yet but I do think it's most likely; your play hasn't raised any red flags that I can remember, shadow looks a lot weaker in retrospect and has ties to scum!charu. let me just finish my reread and I'll get back to you

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You know what I mean by guaranteed

Nothing is guaranteed in a mountainous game

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tinfoil we're getting fucked by pozz/quas wolf