Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Hold on your vote as long as possible.

Luckily for you, there's currently 8 players alive so, it's going to end up 4:3 worst case.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Well, mention what you intended to vote and why, but don't vote.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

A lot of things can happen in the next couple of hours.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The reason is that this could lead to a silly KitB if you happen to be wrong and not here to unvote.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

My heads still on Dusk. Besides general scumreads I’ve had on him, I think any scum world that makes sense to me has dusk on it

I’m choosing to believe both dbp and MML are real

In the world that MML is fake, I think dusk is a partner

In the world that dbp is fake, dusk is probably either not a partner or a very strange bus (bus would only make sense to me if haku was also a wolf)

Besides the fact I was already suspicious of him, he just feels like the safest choice for me

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The logical conclusion I get from this is that MML/Dusk/X(assuming Jessie) world is real and Dusk both RB and NK DBP, but got blocked by DBP at same time which cancelled both the RB and the NK.

MML may have not felt confident with the claim thing with FFA and Jessie already had more suspicion than Dusk.

Seems logical enough for me.

Feedback is appreciated.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

if youre that convinced just vote me then dbp lmao

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

It’s logical enough but I still really struggle to see MML as scum

Where do you think Wolfe fits in to the whole thing?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If you’re town then this is a terrible post to make

You’re really not helping your case

But it also doesn’t really seem like you care

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

That might be a good call tbh. I'll think about it.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

or ill make it easier i think you need to die today

Dbp

Dbp literally just came into thread today to attack me and leave, but not vote me

All he did was try convince other people I am scum which is kinda odd imo, especially in lylo he is less trying to gather reads and solve, more trying to force through one particular lynch, I assume this is because my lynch wins him the game, and probably is about to but, here we are.

Pretty confident this is just a hit now hopefully I can make it happen

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

@Duskfall

Do you think this is a no kill scenario ?
Do you think MML is town, but DBP is wolfing ?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I'm just wondering how you build a world around DBP being a wolf.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I am honestly not convinced on the no kill, I am flip flopping you yes I realise but you are like just a really weird player imo, your reads are incredibly inconsistent and chance on a moments notice but someone did say you play like that earlier in the game I think.

I am also noting that dbp was trying to get you to vote me, which seems like he wouldn't need to do as scum partner, but dbp is probably good enough to fake such an interaction so I am unsure. I am going to say that does help you overall but I can't honestly say I am convinced you are town you have had good moments and bad moments this game. (reading you fmpov is that same as deciding whether there was a kill or not)

I think mml is town yes, clearly i think dbp is scum. I think mml really has come into thread trying his best to solve, I don't agree with a lot of his play and I think he is a bit too set in his ways of what he does like he just sticks to his mind and it is annoying as heck to play against but he does seem like he is trying his best to catch a wolf today rather than just push whoever is easiest, though he wants to lynch jessie, but he is listening to others.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Dbp can be technically be partners with anyone in the game there is not one single person i would completely rule out as a partner, who would you rule out and why?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

putting votes down this early is stupid but I guess this is how we're gonna do it

duskfall

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I usually flash vote at the start if I am playing a game I am following harder

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Also it is not stupid if you are tunneling me and just gonna vote me later anyways, ijust seems opportunistic to wait and see if someone else crosses

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Looks like I inherit all the "What if DBP was a wolf" solving too.

fml.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Unfort this game isn't easy and has never been easy and shockingly, the easy vote isn't going to save town the last day

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

voting like this is stupid and/or wolfy

I didnt cast a vote because it's super risky to do it unless you know you're right 100%... or if you aren't afraid and have nothing to lose (which right now town doesnt have)

but it's a proper thunderdome now, it makes it easier for me at least

now that its between dusk and I this shouldn't be a hard decision

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Vote Count:
5/4 @ 19:00

00:59 = GOOD
00:00 = BAD


==============

Duskfall [1]
DaBackpack

DaBackpack [1]
Duskfall

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

It isn't stupid or wolfy you just think it is because of your site meta which I don't follow, I am used to hammering every day when I play mafia, often earlier than half way through the day phase.

It really doesn't matter it is really the same as a buzzword read to me saying "oh someone voted early" etc, you only believe that because someone else said it before there is nothing to back it up

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean ffs on top of EVERYTHING ELSE this guy responds to pressure by instantly voting the person seriously pushing him

come the fuck on

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I was deciding between you and haku earlier I made that clear, then you came into thread specifically to shade me and left, you clearly have an agenda so I voted

Pushing me doesn't give you immunity from my vote and I have foreshadowed the fact I might vote you a lot, you really are painting a world that doesn't exist here

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

it's a pretty obvious reason why voting like this is shitty

if you vote chaotically and without informing other people you are potentially inviting a wolf rush

its 7am and everyone's asleep but still. if I didnt check this thread before bed I prolly woulda woken up dead without even knowing (...AGAIN)

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Yeah I left because I have to go to fucking bed and posed questions for the both of you and for everyone else while I sleep

maybe I should have said that specifically but I didnt think you'd be so brazen as to vote for me literally 12 hours before EoD, esp. when leetic or someone actually said not to place votes b4 2 hours b4 EoD

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Yes so I waited till I had a read I am confident in, and voted who I think is most scummy. My read will never be 100 percent, but it is as close as it get. A wolf rush can happen regardless when you vote, but I don't think I am wrong here and I don't plan to unvote so timing doesn't matter. If anything it let's town time to discuss and read us better rather than last minute, it has a day to see what to work with.

Also I did inform people I might vote you, and probably was going to so idk where you are getting i didnt from I don't think you have actually read what I am saying which is understandable, you think I will just fall over easily

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Why are you back now?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Also I have no reason to listen to leetic and I really don't believe you would either, you are just trying to buy his vote rn lmao

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

What's expected here is that you make a case on DBP.

I don't even understand what you're voting for here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

because I took a shower and checked email, Facebook and ffr before plugging my phone in

brilliant question

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Cases are scummy

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Siggy material here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I am literally responding to you calling the "dont vote early!" meta stupid and a site-specific thing and brought up that leetic, SOMEBODY NOT ON THOS SITE, BROUGHT IT UP HIMSELF.

this is just you throwing shit on the walls to see what sticks. stop twisting actual facts, hoping people are stupid enough to take you at face value

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

anyway I've laid out all my reasoning already, I'm not gonna stay up and clutter the thread with stupid banter

I'll be around in the afternoon EST but christ please read what I wrote

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Haku I am voting dbp because I believe he is scum, I believe mikey is someone I should listen to

Dbp is being disengenuous today and shading me, he has done really nothing else. He tried buy both your and mml votes onto me before he ever was voting me or I voted him. He was pre emptively scouting out where he can get a lynch through rather that trying to solve who is the most scummy player.

His interests lie in getting a specific lynch through, not whether that lynch is the correct lynch which is the mark of a scum player.

I am in a world where I townread mml, so I have to believe that either you or dbp is scum, I don't believe that both blocker claims and both targets are all town. So you and dbp are in a 1v1 fmpov. I decided that although you have been the flimsiest player of all time, dbp is scummier than you and deserves my vote.

So dbp is scummier than you, is this something you disagree with? If he is not scum over you, then sorry I guess I threw the game and handed you a win

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I'm going to sleep.

I want others to use this as an opportunity to read and understand what's going on.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Lmao that's me quoting someone else

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If you're voting DBP knowing the entire team could be outside of DBP/MML/me/you then you're pmuch in trouble already.

It's kind of obvious that DBP will want support to get a vote on someone this phase because it's like exactly what everyone should try to be doing right now.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Why is MML town for you ?
Why is DBP wolf for you ?

If this is a T/T thunderdome, the game is very close of being over.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

There's is one exact team that does have any of you and it's

Jessie/bolth/Wolfe

And you could say that for any player regardless, at the end of the day you have to pick who you wolf read and vote saying

"Oh god another wolf team is possible" is getting you nowhere, I believe it is dbp which rules out that as a possible team

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Last phase, Mikey looked like he was scum reading both DBP and MML.

I have reasons to believe that this is false and that if one of them is scum, it would be MML.

The problem is that this world leads to a no kill scenario which leads to a ton of contradictions.

So, I don't understand how you get somewhere with this if you're town reading me and not coming to the conclusion that I'm exactly the wolf roleblocker and got blocked by MML.

If our little party of DBP/MML/you/me are all town, this is a no kill scenario with exactly Jessie/Bolth/ShadoWolfe.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I've answered this a few times and every time I answer I'm gonna get a little less detailed but

Mml: frustrating player but feels like he's genuinely trying to find the correct vote and play for town here even if I disagree with him and how he goes about his play

Dbp: is attempting to force a lynch and comes in with a specific mind to just shade me and scout for potential votes on me rather than try solve slots

So the main difference between them is mml is trying to solve whereas dbp is trying to force a mislynch, showing dbp has a much scummier agenda

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

In your world, I'd probably go like DBP/Jessie/ShadoWolfe with Bolth having slightly weaker equity due to MML block.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Personally I think bolth has been bad all game and have said that before so I'd definitely be looking at him tomorrow

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I need to sleep. I don't want to mess up my sleep schedule any further. It's 8 am here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The cornerstone of our disagreement is on mml which sends our worldbuilding into different directions I think

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I’m going to sleep, I’ll hopefully be somewhat present in the hours before EoD

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

well its been 6 hours and neither DBP or Dusk has been piled on, so I think one of em has to be a wolf.

Normally I'm not one for the "omg no one hammered" line of thinking, but it's relevant here because if it was T/T then, given claims, all scum would have to do is pile onto DBP, roleblock and kill MML, and then instawin

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I guess maybe they're still waiting for someone to wake up or check in, but its worth noting

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

It is mylo not lylo so wolves actually aren't able to rush hammer yet btw

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Yeah, they wouldn't be able to get away with this at this point unlike D3

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Even if every wolves stacked one of the two, it would still be L-1.

I feel like you're throwing faulty logic on purpose here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I was hoping for discussion about why DBP or Duskfall is scum or not.

I come back to 7 posts that doesn't lean much.

Well, it's tempting to believe a bit more the T/T world now.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Please consider a MML/Jessie/Shado world.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

..or not. I guess at this rate im going to have 2000 posts and still be like please consider X/Y/Z.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Where I'm at rn:

I started this morning looking at worlds based on partner equity, excluding MML and leetic because they're lock town as far as I'm concerned.

Out of the remaining players (DBP, Bolth, Haku, Jessie, and Dusk),

I kind of want to policy lynch jessie and call it a day, but keep thinking it feels too easy. When she's posted, her posts just make me WIFOM between on whether it's intentional spew (as in the case of her calling out Haku/Bolth as partners repeatedly) or genuine thoughts. Sprinkled amongst the wifom is stuff like this post, where she addresses FFA as if she's talking to him, but its so clearly not a question to FFA as it is loaded for the rest of us. Asking "why lie...?" and then concluding with " I don’t see how you can be town and do this." is gross.
@jessie, if you read this, what I need from you is to share full thoughts on people. when you've shared reads, they've been concise to the point where I can't read you from them, so really go into depth on your thought process on every slot. I'm not asking for a confident conclusion on each, but at least talk about what you think of the person and, more importantly, why / what led you to think that way.

When I started, I thought bolth might be the common denominator scum in the likely active scum teams, but then I went back and read him in some more depth and I don't think he's compatible with any world involving Dusk. The spats/shade they've had really don't look like partner distancing to me. I doubt they're ever W/W.
Which means that if bolth is scum, the scum world is bolth/haku/DBP (or jessie). His partner equity is through the roof with Haku, both because Haku has consistently softdefended him and because of posts like #1902, which reflects upon his contentment to townread haku's slot and let it skate. His readslist in #2882 really drives this home with the almost stereotypical partner reads on Haku and DBP.

Haku is weird to me this game. In terms of pairings, he's kept himself neutral enough to be paired with nearly anyone (but especially bolth) because he dismisses his own pushes as "no one will follow me" and then backs off when engaged. At certain points, I've been almost contented enough to write him off as paranoid townHaku having a bad game and call it a day, but it feels weird.
What's missing from this Haku is the normal flashes of brilliance that accentuate his town play. There was a post earlier where he said that wolfHaku knows he has to pretend to be paranoid, and that kind of is where I'm at. The mechanical blunders and self-stated hopelessness when mechanics is normally his strong suit ties into that possible faux-paranoia in that Haku undersells himself in terms of how people regard him, so playing to that regard could be what we're seeing here. There's too many posts about his uncertainty and paranoia to quote them all, but one post that pinged me in regards to this was #3106

Dusk had the wolfiest D0 out of anyone here. His play as a whole seems to be geared in getting TWTBAW (too wolfy to be a wolf) townreads, and his early game felt forced. While present, it was nearly impossible to pin his reads on anyone down until just last phase. In terms of partner equity, the only person he can't pair with is Bolth.
Since starting to speak up, though, and up through even his most recent debacle, I think his tone has been largely pure. He said somewhere that he came in determined to play an effortless game, and I think he's done that despite potentially staking the game on it. I know he's an exceptional player, so seeing him do a full 180 and become a pancake has given me culture shock of sorts, but he feels towny despite my misgivings. Speaking of misgivings, my issues with him that remain are largely to do with his apparent obsession with looking to dead players' reads. Aside from saying he's town because "every dead towny thought so" (which is the grossest thing he's done), his readslist at #3112 made multiple references to sheeping FFA's reads. This is probably a site culture thing, so @Dusk I ask that you please go into more of your own thoughts on each slot and why you think that way. Like, a stream consciousness thing similar to what I asked jessie to do.

In terms of DBP himself, I think he's as null as can be. His *solving* has seemed muted throughout game and, while he's accentuating his language with a frustrated/angry "fucking", "fucking", "fucking", his emotions feel hollow. I don't think lynching him today is wise given his claim, but he's certainly not towny by any means, and his being scum would answer all the burning questions I have about the game and its weirdness. His response and reaction to FFA did have him looking townier, though it's so far within his townrange that it did little to dispel my doubts on the slot.


If it comes down to Dusk vs DBP, I think I go DBP like 90%. We've made the "right mechanical choice" twice now, and it hasn't gotten anywhere except into this pit of shit we're in, so it's not gonna stop me a third time.

Outside of DBP, I think one in bolth/Haku is our best bet of hitting scum, though jessie is also an attractive option.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I've been neglecting work to focus on this because I owed it to thread in after being lazy in favor of Hollow Knight yesterday, but now I gotta catch up with work. I'll probably be able to check my phone a couple times, but I'm late for a site meeting rn so I won't be very present for awhile. Hoping to be back well before EoD, but we'll see.

My previous post should outline pmuch all I'm thinking anyhow

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I'm pretty upset that you would vote DBP over Duskfall here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

@shadowolfe the only person that i referenced dead players on was dbp, and i feel like i have already talked about him a lot and my read on him is pretty clear

My personal play has never been "here is all the stuff I am thinking", usually i post my thoughts as they arise but admittadly I haven't been focused enough on this game to post a follow-along-able progression so it does make me hard to read (though not impossible). I do think my early days are inherently not scummy by the fact i was just lolcatting and not playing the game, though they aren't really towny either.

I don't really do well with "yo generic question here dusk what are all your reads", I feel like I have given up where I am at rn. If you want to engage in a conversation with me it is a lot more effective to pose more specific questions, because I find them more interesting and easier to answer. I do really think just typing up whole readlists aren't great and it is easy to waffle a reason to read everyone when you aren't focusing on one point.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I think I'm more confident voting ShadoWolfe than Dusk/DBP.

That's how upset I am.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

You were townreading me earlier in the day you shouldn't feel bad about someone else thinking I am town

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Also wrt to listening to dead player's reads mafia is a team game and trying to do everything on your own is bad play, there is no reason to not take account of other people's thoughts

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I town read your tone, but the mechanical play goes against you and it's hard to ignore it because it usually have more weight than tone.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

You mean the fact dbp claimed to block me?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Yeah because it's the only way I can explain the night actions.

The moment I choose to believe you, the night actions don't make sense unless it's exactly ShadoWolfe/Bolth/Jessie.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Well dbp could be scum idling to set me up still, if you think I am town outside mechanics then you have to accept that i could be getting set up as mislynch here

Are you that confident dbp is town, outside of his role claim?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I'm just a lot more confident hitting a wolf outside of PRs in this game.

Also unfortunate for you that we haven't played together before because that makes me not trust my tone read on you consistently.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Ok imagine that dbp is wolf and I am town for a second, this world still makes a lot of sense why dbp would idle and claim a block on me right? He wins the game if I am mislynched

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

It also means that him being alive makes sense, because if scum shoot someone and it is not in the blocker questions get asked, so the only people scum dbp can actually shoot is p much mml, assuming mml is town. I think that is noteworthy and i just realised that

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I guess the scenario where his roleblock is fake is very easy to fake as a wolf.

Keeping MML would just bring more chaos here.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

And yourself in terms of how other people should read you based in dead players' townreads, which is never ever said here or anywhere else I've played

I'm with you here. We do listen to dead reads as a source of confirmed town insight, but there's only so much you can do with em because of the evolving gamestate.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

The fact that you agree that if he is wolf and I am town this block is easy to fake

Means that you must consider the world heavily, because if he is wolf and I am town this is likely to happen, therefore his claim raises his towniness none at all and raises my scum equity none at all

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Well, I just want to evaluate both worlds, no more no less.

I obviously need help for solving this.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I was mostly saying that because people said I was impossible to townread and I was disputing that fact because others have

But yes dead townies are dead for a reason listening to what they say is good, consistently all the people townreading me dying is a good look for me and I'm not afraid to say that because it is stupid to not point out something that might prevent my lynch when my lynch would lose the game

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

.. What?
From a Haku perspective, dusk being town should shift suspicion to the claimed roleblocker for no killing to strengthen his claim. The 0 partner equity aside, how do you get to exactly me/bolth/jessie based on night actions?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Resolving both worlds is good I don't expect you to think I'm obvious town and dbp is obvious scum im just showing you this world exists and you should consider it

I can't really get mad at people for being wrong on reading me considering i haven't tried this game, I ma easily tilted as a person so I can be kinds toxic (sorry not like that outside of game). Trust me I get the fact people want to lynch me, arguably on policy but it's up to me show people how they can townread me and how they can scumread dbp, evaluating the world that I believe to exist.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

OK then let's focus on one point. Assume we DBP today and he flips red. Who do you think his partners are? Why?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I tend to assume that wolves had little reason to no kill and I know I'm not a thing with MML.
It's also funny to note that no one seems to want to entertain MML blocking "wolf me".
It's like you guys know I rolled town.

You're basically forcing me to try to believe in a sub optimal scenario where DBP no kill on purpose.
This is super awkward if true.