Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

FG, whenever you're around, could you explain what you meant about T-Force breaking your heart during last EOD? I'm not sure I understand what went on there.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

could you explain what you meant about me being a wolf with t-force??

I do not like to be ignored!!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

aka YIP YIP YIP!! pay attention to me~~

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Sorry! I figured I'd save the deets for my analysis post since I didn't want to send out half-formed thoughts and ideas... I didn't mean to ignore you.

But as a preview, the more I reread the less I feel like you two are partners.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Not sure if I should give you a treat, or a blunt

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Same thing :mrgreen:

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

You don't think we are partners but do you still think I am a wolf?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I keep going back and forth because both worlds make sense to me to a certain extent. As of where I'm at (page 42), I'd say no, probably not.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

anything causing me to seem more towny this time around?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I think I faulted you too much for what I thought was your focus on who was suspicious rather than who was townie (since on the reread I see you did defend people or try to interpret their actions positively to those who were going the opposite route).

Also, up until you defended t-force when that wagon started to form, your posts had been quotes or replies to people pinging you. It made me think that stopping his lynch was especially important to you, and since I was already suspicious of you, my mind went to partner trying to save partner.

Also also, with the exception of sunfan, people kept townreading you with minimal explanation given, and since no one really answered me when I asked them to elaborate, I got contrarian and leaned into the scumread harder than I would've otherwise, lol...

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Totally fair I feel the same way, it is a bit weird to me as well.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Raeko have you done a full reads of how things are looking so far? I remember you did one late D0 before DBP became active

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Insert Junpei meme here.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I've mostly just been commenting, haven't made a true list

I'm playing dnd atm but I would still have you as towny as my most confident read

I also like sunfan atm, both because what he was ranting about also bugs me and I see it as anti-town a lot of the time, and because it just feels like he is genuinely talking about something that bugs him. doesn't feel forced

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Oh, I was discounting that take because at the time I thought, like with her being proactive in defending you when your wagon formed, you trying to more or less hardclear her was another partner defending partner strat.

Unrelated, but since we're talking about it, I disagree with the take too. I don't think wolf raeko would've voted FFA there. She basically never said anything about him, whereas she had a read on ule that she developed throughout the phase. Dropping that to vote FFA would've been riskier and more suspicious than sticking with ule.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Fair enough! Roll for initiative, my friend.

This won't sound shady as fuck at all... /s

Funnily enough I have you as my top town right below DBP

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

We will agree to disagree.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I kinda defended FFA for the same reason, but I realized I didn't explain it

I didn't like the wagon being formed with no defined reason. with lots of people easily jumping on. It wasn't about T-Force or FFA as players but more about how the wagon formed looking weird to me

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I'm gonna pretend I'm stupid for a second here

Which part of what plop said do you disagree with?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Got a Boss Rush time of 08:06:86

Mehhhhhhhhhhh

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

"I disagree with the take too. I don't think wolf raeko would've voted FFA there. She basically never said anything about him, whereas she had a read on ule that she developed throughout the phase. Dropping that to vote FFA would've been riskier and more suspicious than sticking with ule."

Knowing how Raeko feels about FFA, I feel that she would be a little more willing to off him if she were a wolf and had opportunity to do so.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Hmmm... That's fair...

Can we keep this "Lewdy is dumb" schtick going for a bit

Does this mean you're suspicious of Raeko, or not?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

do you really think I would play so sloppy?

gosh, the insults just keep piling up in this game

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Is there a Freezin hot take since I posted here ?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

#STOPTHETOXCICITY

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Sunfan believes he isn't town.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Okay, I wanna be the Sunfan for 15 minutes.

Please entertain that Dabackpack rolled wolf here.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Now entertain that both FG and T-Force are town.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I've been trying my best to restrain myself here... But I want to hit you with a chair after reading these

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I heard that one last game and I wasn't wrong.

Ok, let me explain a little.

Sunfan/DBP/Plop.

That's the world I want to evaluate here.

Basically DBP make this T-Force/FG world and fish for all the tells to get some friends. "wow haku dumbtell he's town 100% etc."

then you have Sunfan who was voting DBP D0. This is the Animal Crossing scenario where he just afk vote a partner and invest for later on. "Yeah, DBP was a wolf, but I voted him therefore im town".

Plop enters this world by suggesting a T-Force lynch which breaks the Plop/T-Force world ironically and is highly suggesting that they are indeed not together.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

FUCK that's actually convincing... So this world assumes that FG and T-Force are town, yes?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I know very well this is sub optimal and super easy to break, but I don't care.

I just want to compare how unlikely these things are.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

If you paid attention, the player im the most likely to be wrong about in this world is Plop because the same thing can be said about town Plop not giving a damn about T-Force living.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

my honest truthful advice

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

This game is slowly convincing me that my friends are all sociopaths

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I'm doing this in hope people feel pity and come help me solve things.

Baby sandbox strats.

It's like "hey don't worry, you can't be more wrong than Haku, please come play in sandbox".

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

No, because I think you would be able to come up with a good reason for it, and honestly? I don't think most people would suspect it.



No. I think Raeko is a top town for me.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Note that me creating a world doesn't mean that I want to vote any of these 3.

It just means I want to take these players and evaluate them if they were not town aligned.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

This is down to 06:33:81

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

ok but then why pair them?

why not just evaluate them on their own?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

It's easier to discredit 1 person than an entire group.

e.g: Player A:

I'm town reading Raeko because I liked her tone all game and I felt like I was hearing the voice of reason.

Player B:

Hey she didn't give a lot of reads, she's probably wolfing and coasting.

Player A:

Well, she does that as town too.

Player B:

That doesn't matter, we should vote her for not giving better reads.

[insert narrative to leads to Raeko mislynch]

---

Basically, if I'm talking about a group of players, we often get more objective discussions imo. (as long as the why matters)

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I will go full blown asshole if it boils down to this.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I mean, it's happening right now.

DBP: FG/T-Force badass theorem.
Sunfan: Please evaluate players 1 by 1.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Trying to think if there's any way I can trick people into actually reading the big post I'm planning to serve up shortly...

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Make multiple spoiler tags for every paragraph

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

JK don't do this

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

You're always worth reading. I don't know what's putting a wrench in your game, but I do hope something clicks soon enough.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Oh I think I see why I have this disconnect with you Plop in this game.

Basically, you're asking players questions, but I haven't seen you translate that into concerns or something to bring on the table.

So, fmpov it looks like you're solving, but we can't see what or why.

So, the first reflex here is to question if you're even solving something.

I think the big post should help with that.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I also have the opposite problem right now I think.

I have a lot of concerns, but little basis on what question to ask to become relevant.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Alright, here we go! As per shadow's request, the big post has been formatted in spoiler tags!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Is it possible that this could be a case of pretending to solve?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Aww, thank you! And you're right. I'm hoping that, at the very least, the analysis will help you out, since I know why you're misreading me and you've given me a rather straightforward way of remedying it, lol

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

~TOWN~
Shadow: I don't think I need to say much more than, “He's posting a lot!” given that multiple people agree he's unable to keep up with his town posting volume as scum. I guess he hasn't rolled scum in a while, so there's the potential that he's been able to close the gap between the two alignments, but I'm not worried about that. For one, he hasn't rolled scum so he hasn't had the chance to practice and hone those wolfposting skills, but more importantly, everything else about him is as townie as can be. He's sticking his nose in everything, his analysis makes sense, he's paying attention and remembering details (eg remembering that I had brought up the raeko/t-force pairing at least twice), and he follows up on the inquiries he makes. He's interested and motivated to solve the game. Also, lines like, “I'm a bit lost right now, I think I'll take a short break here and come back later on,” are just so pure-sounding.


Sunfan: I'm not getting the usual paranoia I get about sunfan this game. First off, we're getting mindmelds out the wazoo. I'm right there with him about being cautious about yoshl, I was right there with him about how an ule lynch would lead to more or less no information and how the role/mechanics discussion shouldn't be so frowned upon, and I'm right there with him about how everyone seems to look past freezin without any substantial reason to. (Oh, and I like the clown character from AA too). He's got a bit of the same scattershot approach as dap, quoting posts and replying to them/commenting on them, but it's never without purpose. You can trace the path that his inquiries and comments make, which is especially good since they aren't shallow, two-dimensional reads. As far as tone goes, I know he's faked me out on that front before (being frustrated, making big speeches about stuff, etc), but given the other points in his favor, it reads as genuine.


~LEANING TOWN~
Raeko: I already spoke in the thread about why I was scumreading raeko and suspecting her of being partners with t-force, but I'll go over it again here so it's easier to track down in the future. During d0 I thought that she was focusing too much on who was suspicious rather than who was townie. She was also being quiet and more reactive than proactive, which, even in line with her meta for d0, still didn't sit right with me. Then, when her first point of being aggressively proactive was to cast shade on the t-force wagon, I figured stopping his lynch must've been especially important to her. Combine that with t-force, someone who I think is suspicious (I know, I know, that doesn't align with my last EOD...I'll get to that in the T-Force section), starting this phase off trying to more or less hard clear her, I felt it was too much to ignore.

However, during the reread, I saw that she defended people or tried to interpret their actions in a positive light more than I realized. Her reads and their development also make sense to me. While her case on ule was straightforward enough that it could come from either alignment, her treatment of sunfan has nuance to it that reads as genuine. I also didn't get any suspicious vibes during our recent back-and-forth in the thread, and the elaboration on her thoughts/motivations she made, again, read as genuine. If things keep up the way they have been I'll move her up to town, but for now I want to stay in leaning town since I want some more information to help me boost my confidence.


Haku: I'm paranoid of haku ever since he totally fleeced me. I always thought I was soooo good at townreading him, but, well, turns out that was only because I'd never seen his wolf game before... But outside of that, I don't see anything suspicious from haku. He's playing the town game I'm used to seeing. Any point of contention I had while reading (eg why did he stay on t-force during EOD?) was cleared up later on (he didn't like the FFA/ule/dap wagons and wanted fg/t-force cleared up). I do agree that there was a lack of the classic haku flip-flopping/paranoia in his early game, but it's definitely here now. Basically, I think he's solidly town, but he fleeced me once so he's stuck in leaning town due to paranoia.


Dap: I read dap pretty close to how I read sunfan: his scattershot approach makes sense, you can trace the path his inquiries and comments take, his takes have depth and nuance, and while within his scum range to fake-solve and make lengthy posts, I don't get that impression based on the content of his posts. I also don't know if wolf dap would focus so hard on and reiterate the point about another mislynch leading to MYLO. I also don't think he'd try to keep haku and shadow grounded w/r/t his theory about me/t-force. I feel like he'd fake confidence in the read and try to get them hyped up? Maybe even post some Erika pics?

The difference, then, between him and sunfan, is there's less mindmelding going on between us. For an example outside the obvious one that I'm not a wolf, I disagree with his take that yoshl's evolving read on haku is high effort low reward as a wolf so it's more likely to be genuine. When I'm a wolf, I try to give some natural fluctuation to my reads. To quote Robert Irvine from the episode of Dinner Impossible I watched last night, “The difference between a good dinner and a great dinner is the little details.” In my eyes, the difference between passing as town and fooling everyone into thinking you're town are those little details, and I'm sure both dap and yoshl have gone to those lengths before.

To make a long story short, I'll feel more comfortable with dap either once we start coming to the same conclusions or I have more information to go off of...but in my heart I'm pretty certain he's town.


~NULL~
FG: I really have no idea what to think about FG. There's points in her favor, and points against her too.

For stuff in her favor, I think her analysis generally makes sense. Her read on haku being less paranoid was solid, and it went against the grain of the thread too, which I think is more often townie than not. Her line at #548, “haku if you were town and i were wolf you bet i'd be town reading you rn” would be a fantastic wolf play, but I lean towards it being genuine. Same with how she interrogated him then eventually seemed satisfied with the explanations he gave.

I think her treatment of FFA gives points in her favor too. At #617 she said to yoshl, “ i have a null read on ffa. i mean voting him off isn't something i'm totally against.” Like sunfan said, FG was looking forward to playing with FFA, and FG asked us all to “do her a solid” by letting him live. However, when it looked like he was gonna be the lynch, she said, “ you know, i hope y'all are right. that's all i can say.” That reluctant willingness to do what's potentially best for town, even if it goes against her interests, reads as townie behavior to me.

The null read comes in because, one, each of those interpretations could just as easily go the other way, and two, I'm super confused about why she shied away from t-force after being so adamant about making his lynch happen. She said her heart was broken, but then she was also willing to lynch FFA too (and, in her words, she went with ule over him because the ule flip would help her solve more than ffa's would, which I take to mean she'd vote to lynch ffa if it were the better move for her game). I can't make heads or tails of it.

Also, I don't think there's a t-force/FG pairing going on. She pushed for people to vote for him (told shadow to do it, thanked yoshl after he did it, etc). Dap suggested at one point that if they are W/W she might not've expected the t-force wagon to get as much traction as it did, but she only dropped her vote four minutes before EOD. I think if she were trying to save a partner she'd have made that move well beforehand.


~LEANING WOLF~
Freezin: Freezin is another confusing player to me. Like FG, he has points in his favor and points against him too.

For good points, I think some of his analysis sounds genuine. The point about sunfan being ambivalent about lynching people when he's scum is something I've looked for too (since I remember sunfan specifically saying like “t-force can die” a few times in the nonary games game but never committing to it), and his reasoning for why he went with ule over others makes sense (ie he supported shadow voting FG, but for not voting FG himself, he felt it was more of a 50/50 between her open wolfing and joking around, whereas with ule he had more concrete suspicions). He was also the second person (after shadow I believe) to post a reads least, no matter how janky, which is always good.

For bad points, when I asked about how freezin plays town, dap said that he doesn't care about clearing himself as a townie so that other townies won't have to worry about him. That's why him starting the game off by saying stuff like “i'm going for the volume clear” or that he'll be happy with a slank lynch doesn't sit right. It sounds like a gameplan for how to play the phase, not a gameplan for how to catch wolves (similar to the point yoshl made about xiz). Plus, if he doesn't care about clearing himself when he's town (and based on his argument with sunfan, I'm guessing it's true), why announce he's going for the volume clear? I think that might be a slip of sorts in terms of where his motivation is at.

There's also his reaction to the flip, which to me reads like distancing (ie saying the kills were bad and that, “xiz was playing alot clearer and more focused than ive ever seen, we cant have nice things i guess”). He also said this about t-force in his early reads list: “a few spicy posts that i liked so he's above average.” I'm pretty certain there weren't any spicy posts from t-force at that point, so it seems like a weird read to give...but if they're partners, that makes more sense.


Yoshl: I know, I know, I'm paranoid about yoshl in the same way I'm paranoid about haku, but I feel like my intuition is more likely to be right on this one. While he's made some good points that I agree with (eg how shadow and haku in the early game were trying extract meaning from stuff that had no meaning and how t-force looked more like he was doing stuff than actually doing stuff), and while there was one line of his that sounded like it came from a very townie mindset (842, “it sits pretty badly with me, but i'm probably going to need to just look at some other things for the time being.”), ultimately I think too many of his points come across as disingenuous.

For one, I sense he's moving towards a scumread on haku for haku's flip-flopping and stuff like his big wall of quotes that were more commentary mode than fresh insights. Haku having the tendency to swap around his reads or just post a lot of stuff that's more thinking out loud has been brought up quite a few times this game, yet it hasn't influenced yoshl's read, nor has he reached out to others about it for clarification. His case against xiz for thinking too much on who the best target is at the moment rather than what he can do to get more info to make a better informed lynch also didn't seem right since I feel like xiz was still in the “EOD is tonight” mindset. Casting shade on sunfan for telling people not to blindly townread him for tone and analysis seems fishy to me too...I can understand how that'd be frustrating if yoshl's town and people are reading him right and for the right reasons, but I don't think sunfan's take is wrong either, and I think yoshl would understand that and try to approach sunfan from that angle.


~WOLF~
T-Force: I'll start off with the two points that are in t-force's favor: one, he responds to my questions fully and accurately, and two, when it looked like he was close to being lynched, he didn't struggle that hard or try to meme out.

Buuut, aside from that, I agree with the points others have made against him in terms of the passive play and so on, so I'll only speak on what hasn't been said already. The game I see here is more or less identical to the nonary games wolf game. He'll defend himself when necessary, but he'll also ignore a lot of pushes and prods from people casting shade on him, which I think is one of his tells. Also, regarding the FFA lynch, he said at #704, “Might as well warm another seat. I'm fine with this today.” It feels disingenuous to leave out the fact that voting for FFA is self-pres for him. There's also his push on me, which, bias aside, I think is pretty weak. It hinges on FG's vote on me being an attempt to distance ourselves, me playing devil's advocate/being wishy washy in one of my reads, and me having TMI because I was right about how the ule flip would go down. That's pretty much it. It feels like he's tunnelling on me since there's momentum there already, then he can be like, “I'm happy with where I'm at” for the rest of the phase. Then, lastly, going through his EOD, he talks way way more about haku being sus than FG. In fact, he even says right here:

That's a weird thing to say considering he had his vote on her right up until 7 minutes before EOD!

All in all, his play just seems so much more in line with what I saw in the nonary games game than the AC game.

Oh, and as far as why EOD went down the way it did on my end of things, I really did believe t-force about his passive play and so on being NAI. I know I was wrong about him in the AC game, so I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I also felt like ffa was more likely to be a hit.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

HI SUBARU!!!!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Oh God it's Subaru

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Welcome to the shitshow

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

You're in a shitty slot! Good luck!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Today's theme:

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

You cheeky dickwaffle!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Come on Subaru, you only have 1260 posts to read and less than 24 hours :D

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Guess he ain't biting.... But that slot is gross as fuck

If Subaru freezes up and can't say anything and runs on a the hamster wheel I'd be more than happy to kill him

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Oh well. Haku how are you?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Beep bap boop. Thread is dead

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

YAY Haku's back!

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

What do you think of Plop's reads?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I suggest we take a break until the entire gang is here to read this together.

If it's always me giving opinions of everything we dont get enough -not me- feedback.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Fair enough. I'll just read my.... "artwork" until tomorrow

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

The only thing I don't like right now is how the majority is cool with a T-Force lynch in the same manner that majority was cool with Ulle/FFA lynch.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

It's logical, not controversial and everyone is happy.

If everyone is happy town is losing imo because it means wolves have no reason to care.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Hmmm you've got a fair point....

Do you feel like Subaru's slot has merit to be a hit? Or are we resetting him?

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

What the thread needs to most right now is Yoshl/Freezin.

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

The two people I can't read and I struggle with... I'm sorry guys, I'm not gonna be of much help here

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Current mood

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Guess who I am

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

Ugh... Fuck this, I'm going to bed.

Goodnight

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

too good
too rich

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]
 

I'm not moving my vote onto Force, even though I tried to last night, because he already has 3 votes

I'll move it to Subaru instead as a welcome

To the people telling you that your slot is dirty, it isn't lol. No slot can be dirty without either hard slank, or a flipped wolf someone was defending, neither of which FG was doing.