Flash Flash Revolution - TWG 194

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Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'll try to evaluate Shado/Ulli.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730009)

How do you feel about Shado being down for voting you.

Duskfall also felt like it was you as well.

There's even older posts where FG/Xiz were interested into voting you.

Your entrance mini wall ironically links you to DBP with the vote even if random.

You have a lot of posts centered around DBP in a similar fashion as jessie.

Looks like your votes were

D1 -> leetic (with me)

D2 -> Xiz (with Shadow and me)

D3 -> Duskfall (alone)

D4 -> Duskfall (alone with 2 wolves)

Not your best game if town.

Wolfe wasn’t actually really on my radar until he got all giddy about dusks read on me, which something was really off about , I’ll go back and find the post gimme like 20 I’m not home, but yea it felt like he was looking for a reason to jump on a Bolth wagon and he found it in that post

Not my best game, no, i struggled with the mechanical inconsistencies and let it effect my reads and confidence levels, and when the Xiz and ffa things happened, I couldn’t really think about anything else out until they were sorted in my head

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4728331)

bolth just feels like he has been kind of preaching about like me not solving, but he doesn't seem to be trying himself earlier today he expressed frustration about me being able to get townread without posting/reading thread properly and that if he could do the same he could.

I think this is kind of perspective slippy because he wants me to read thread to kind of solve to look townier, but he is saying he only reads thread to look towny. On one hand he is saying i am scum for not efforting on the other hand he is saying if he could do the same and get townread he could so it is like, he is really doing what he thinks is towny because he thinks that is towny and he is pushing the opposite without really trying to read the play. He is attempting to act towny, not solve the game. Yes i am being a hypocrite rn, no i dont care it is what it is me and bolth are different players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4728342)

Thank you thank you thank you

OK so the PoE read on me makes sense I guess. If your options are me and jessie, then I can understand how an inactive slot will always feel like mislynch bait due its nature.

Haku I don't agree with as much because he's been known to support zany stances as town. What gives me pause there is that he's normally good at mechanics based solves, even to the point of figuring out literally every possibility and then spending all night tinfoiling them until he arrives at said zany stance. So coming with a "mechanics" plan to mass claim based on the reasoning he gave doesn't feel like his normal solving capabilities.

But the reason I was especially happy to see this post is 'cause that bolth read is solid. I read the post where he said he wonders why he posts if all he has to do to get townread is not post and it gave me pause as well, so that read makes most sense to me here

Here's my original interaction with Dusk:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4728089)

Oh I haven't been reading the game very much

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4728100)

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother reading the thread when you can get townread by everyone for doing nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4728104)

This is probably a slip LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4728106)

I’ve made some sort of a supposed slip every single game I’ve played, idek what part of my post you’re referring to

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4728110)

It's the part where you forgot you are meant to be solving the game bolth and commented on how reading the thread isn't a necessary part of your play, because you only want to be townread not solve. If you could get townread without looking like you are solving the game you would but you don't feel comfortable doing so

So perspective slip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4728121)

Of course I want to be fucking town read

I’m trying to solve but people keep throwing me in the lynch pool without any sort of real reasoning, and anybody I push just gets brushed off.

It is clear to me that wolves are leading the direction of this game, and I feel absolutely powerless as a player to stop it.

Anyway, I still think that this was a very weak reason to scumread someone and was what really started my suspicions on Dusk besides him not actually reading anyone.

For Wolfe to jump in after this interaction and say ''I was especially happy with your reads Dusk cause that bolth read is really solid'' really made me question wolfe's motives. You're right, Haku, that all his other posts seem very carefully crafted, safe, and ''perfect''. Wolfe's vote at EoD is also prime safety vote, Jessie was an easy and safe bus and it would have been very easy to swing to Dusk if the opportunity arose.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I played another very long game where I loss to a wolf ShadoWolfe before in a F3 and it's because I kept failing to see anything about his plays.

Townies tend to do things that could be considered mistakes, but that aren't necessarily real ones.

e.g: "omg MML forgot his check as a Roleblocker, he's clearly a disorganized wolf 111 etc.".

If you're wolfing and you already know how everything unfold, it's easy to just say what everyone wants to hear and like be constantly at the right place at the right time.

At same time, I kind of hate scum reading people over this because look at your first game. I literally went like "ah this is too good to be true" and got on a stupid crusade against you.

Now you display something that looks more disorganized and I'm not even sure if it's you downgrading your game or if the game was simply so chaotic that it was hard to get a feel for it.

tl;dr: you're tricky to read, but I might be more likely to figure out your alignment than Shado's.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4727470)

Part 1 lol I did what I said I wouldn't do and actually got lost in the thread reading it instead of skimming it. Glad I did though. I got a lot of background to the EoD that I never would've had the context for otherwise.
oh, bear in mind that the notes are fully chronological for each name and so if I start with "x town" for instance, it doesn't mean I think that way at the end.

Sorry for the complete lack of formatting and editing. I thought I'd be able to catch up by now and have time to proofread, but as it is you get a completely unedited rough dump of my thoughts and I'ma go play some hollow knight and try to process that EoD / SoD and the possible worlds stemming from them before sleeping.

That reminds me of Roundbox's tower posts without the army of quotes.

I'm kind of curious here what was the intention in terms of solving.

It feels like pure commentary which is interesting, but also vaguely going anywhere.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Vote Count:
5/6 @ 19:00

00:59 = GOOD
00:00 = BAD

==============

DaBackpack [2]
Duskfall, Hakulyte

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'm trying to reconstruct Shado's game slowly and I need to reread parts to remember parts of what happened if it wasn't my main focus during the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4727782)

He's town. He's my strongest read of the game.

Go back to D0 and read his interactions with ulle, even at times where ulle was under pressure. I think there's a lot to be said for being able to solve a slot thru intention, and all I see there and throughout the game do someone who's really just trying to solve it.

Obviously you can't be as confident as I am because you don't know for sure that I'm town and don't get to come in after the fact and look at the situations of my predecessor with the unbiased eye of someone who wasn't involved, but yea I'm pretty confident on this one

In a MML / DBP fight, it seems like ShadoWolfe is consistent with himself and support MML over DBP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4727876)

when did you ask me about Xiz? I'm reading, chill your beans fam

if you must know, I don't like either of the wagons right now. as far as I've read, I haven't seen anything from DBP meriting a lynch. Is his playstyle different in terms of posting more during the phase itself and less trying to control EoD? yes. Do I think it's AI? No. I like that change. I know DBP has historically been stressed thinking people *needed* him to come in at EoD and hero mode it to save town, so seeing him put it to the backburner is a welcome change. everything I've read of him so far has been aight.

Xiz I've commented on extensively in my posts thus far. I think can be resolved later as more claims come in, though after reading his more recent meltdown and recovery, I'm beginning to think his presence alone is gonna split town even if he may be town himself. I don't think there's much he can do at this state to convince certain people that he's truly town, so he'll be an easy mislynch later on if people let emotions make their decisions when claims come in and mechanical lynches becomes more crucial.

So between the two, I'd lynch Xiz over DBP if it comes to it.

I'd much rather we lynch duskfall. Say what you will about D0 reads, but I think that over and over and over again his posts dripped scumminess too many times for me to let it go. I think you can tell alignment from even one post if it betrays the underlaying intention enough, and I think his posts do that. my thoughts there are outlined in my bigger post about D0 as well.

I'm also really hesitant on accepting FG's green. A godfather almost certainly exists in this setup, and I'm normally really good at reading her. In all the games I've played with her, I don't think I've ever mislynched her as town and the one time she was wolf I caught her D0 and pushed for her lynch thru the following day phase. Aside from this phase where she's seemed more normal (perhaps due to the green check), she's really been off to me. My thoughts there are outlined in my big post from yesterday.

DBP would live over Xiz/Duskfall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4727927)

Xiz your latest fixation with FG stinks of another bigbrained plot and I can't deal with another. Please stop.

oh yeah jess exists. that's a fine lynch too, esp since it's become clear no one wants to follow me on Dusk

Reads FG town.
Reads Jess potential wolf.

...

--------
Excuse me for interrupting my own post but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashflash account (Post 4728020)

dbp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4728022)

dbp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duskfall (Post 4728032)

DBP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 4728033)

Nah, no wordplay, are these real?

dbp tentatively

nah bullshit reasoning

Holy shit Bolth. Mad play if wolf.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

No seriously, I have a really hard time to picture you vote wolf DBP here to invite town to L-1 your hypothetical wolf partner.

That might be a potential hindsight.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by leetic (Post 4728175)

Apparently my post on DBP "requires moderator approval", so who knows if we'll see it. Anyway, I think the evidence that DBP is paired with Shado and jessie isn't as strong as the evidence that the latter two are paired with each other. There are some major red flags with the DBP/jessie pairing, though the fact that DBP has yet to show up means I can't make a judgement on whether DBP is setting up jessie for a lynch or if he plans to divert attention away from her. DBP does admittedly have many wolfy moments of his own though.

@leetic

Please revisit this world.

Also, unvote because clearly I'm lazy and need 24 hours to read 50 posts and comprehend them.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

These tinfoil reads on me are honestly bad. Cherrypicking my posts out of context to put your own spin on it is also bad. And it looks worse coming from Haku than it does Bolth, what with the latest flipflop to agree with whoever's currently in thread.

You say my play has been "annoyingly flawless", and "it's easy to say what everyone wants to hear", but that ignores every disruption I've made. It ignores my every interaction. It ignores how, when DBP and Dusk had just crossed, and literally everyone was against Dusk and actively arguing to leave DBP alone, I was the first to make a case against DBP. When Dusk was universally viewed as the scum, I tone-read him, defended him, and pushed DBP instead. You supposedly scum-read for doing that, to the point where you were ready to "thunderdome" me over it yesterday, but then think I'm his partner today?

I'll take the "annoyingly flawless" part as a compliment, but trying to use *good* play to argue for why I'm wolf isn't just bad, it blatantly disregards my plays themselves and the definitively pro-town impact they've had. You forget I'm a power wolf too. If I was scum with DBP, you really think I blow up his spot and get a partner lynched and the other exposed when the two of us would almost certainly be able to steer a lynch together? You know me better than that, and all this flipflopping is really starting to stink

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730016)

ffs it's my notes while reading through the massive D0
I take notes while catching up 'cause I can't respond to everything individually or even quote them or it'd just be wall after wall after wall and gets ignored. If you can't see how it helps me solve game and read slots, then idk what to tell you

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

I'm doing this because I have a ton of games where I'm like

[haha Bolth obvious wolf]
[let's not read a single Shadow post]
[vote Bolth]
[Bolth flips town]
[Wolves win]

I literally did zero work on evaluating you this game until now because you were simply never on the table.

The thing is that we're going in a F4/F3 and you're probably stuck with me.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730025)

I mean, it's not like every players asked you 7-8 questions.

You just took a bunch of posts that were semi relevant from each players and explained the equivalent of fun facts.

I got the classic Haku Town Read™ in it too yay..

I'm still reading, don't mind me tho.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730026)

ok then like read them now instead of just carrying a tinfoil read over
like really really read them
bash your head against my every post. look at heated situations and not heated situations. look at the context and remember the gamestate at the time. try to find what I really want. do it now, and when you come up thinking "k he's town after all" remember that feeling and stick to it.

'cause FYI, the last time you said exactly what you're saying here, you ended up fearlynching me in F3 vs sunfan and I really don't want that happening again if you're town

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730023)

Well, if you're a wolf, you already know DBP is a wolf so, if things doesn't work out, you can wash your hands with it and get the win later on because you're in a clean state.
If you're town, I need to identify what happened to you to wolf read DBP in the first place and understand if it makes sense.

My main take is that you town read MML relatively early in the game, but it's not a read I could get myself during most of the game.

Basically, I'm trying to inform myself about your game progression to be like "oh you think this because of this" rather than "magically having the right thoughts at the right time".

Sorry for not being quick at connecting the dots together.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Dusk I just wanna say from now if the beef with DBP was invented and y'all end up being partners, then major props to you both on the grade A plan & execution

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730032)

Dusk I just wanna say from now if the beef with DBP was invented and y'all end up being partners, then major props to you both on the grade A plan & execution

That sounds like something that should get evaluated as well tbh.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe (Post 4730023)

I'll take the "annoyingly flawless" part as a compliment, but trying to use *good* play to argue for why I'm wolf isn't just bad, it blatantly disregards my plays themselves and the definitively pro-town impact they've had. You forget I'm a power wolf too. If I was scum with DBP, you really think I blow up his spot and get a partner lynched and the other exposed when the two of us would almost certainly be able to steer a lynch together? You know me better than that, and all this flipflopping is really starting to stink

That looks real enough. Do you think Dusk could have been pulling strings or that it's Bolth most of the time here ?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730031)

with regard to DBP, my mental progression early game was that he seemed different but alright overall. I know he's been resenting what he feels is a meta expectation other people have of him to come in and go hard EoD to "save" EoD. I had talked to him about it at the end of that game and told him no one needs him to play hero and that he can just chill and everything will be fine, but he seemed to disagree with my entire premise and pmuch ignored me. Point is, I was content in seeing his change in EoD play in this game because I hoped he was doing it in an effort to change that expectation / his response to it.
only problem with that is, since he was playing differently than normal, I kept wanting more from him and could only operate on what little I got. The first reason I had to suspect him came during the EoD where we lynched Xiz. Towards the end, Xiz' tone got really pure and I started feeling like it was a miss. I asked DBP if he saw what I was seeing 'cause he's normally got solid reads as town, and he said something along the lines of "not really".
Now, Xiz was mechanically the right lynch, but hearing that he didn't see the change in tone was surprising and a little worrying, especially after Xiz flipped.

None of that mattered much anymore the next day, though, because FFA seemed to have gotten a redcheck on DBP. When DBP counterclaimed by saying he had blocked FFA the night before, my first thought was something along of "huh, yeah right, that's awfully convenient". Even after reading MML's claim and realizing that FFA wasn't cop, I still doubted DBP's claim 'cause of how funky that timing is. I think I wrote something about it at the time, and wrote a post about how FFA's flip definitively determines DBP's alignment. Once FFA rescinded, that kinda went out the window 'cause the red check got retracted, but the suspicion was still there. It all sorta piled up in that next phase, when dusk and DBP went head to head. Dusk had been seeming better and better of late, and DBP still hadn't given me anything make me think he was town. That's when I first sat down and actively considered the world where he's scum and made my case against him, and the rest since then is prolly fresh in your mind

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730033)

That sounds like something that should get evaluated as well tbh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakulyte (Post 4730034)

That looks real enough. Do you think Dusk could have been pulling strings or that it's Bolth most of the time here ?

I promise I'm gonna evaluate Dusk eventually. My schedule's been really hectic this week 'cause we have three ongoing projects each hitting critical phases. I just want to get a firmer grasp on you and bolth before going the tinfoil route. I guess I'm second guessing myself 'cause bolth has posts (usually when he's scumreading me lmao) where he seems genuine af