Flash Flash Revolution

Flash Flash Revolution (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/index.php)
-   TWG Archives (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/forumdisplay.php?f=88)
-   -   TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread] (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=149562)

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 12:21 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
Freezins claim was fake though...

Funnygurl555 08-25-2018 01:10 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

Tps222 08-25-2018 02:02 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
After a long day of travel I now have internet connection (and I was promoted at work today so I got caught up celebrating a bit lol whoops)

I'm caught up now. I am the hider and I hid behind sunfan last night.

I need to pass out now but I will be on early tomorrow PST to see what's going on.

Celirra 08-25-2018 02:13 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
nah thats impossible
unless someone isnt actually vt or if we have a sk or ??? but thats zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Funnygurl555 08-25-2018 02:46 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

Originally Posted by Celirra (Post 4645929)
nah thats impossible
unless someone isnt actually vt or if we have a sk or ??? but thats zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

we have to have either an sk or a vig for that kill. freezin claimed something, so i bet the town wouldn't vig him. we prolly have a serial killer

so if the only prs we have is gunsmith and hider, then we have 4 T's, which would mean that we don't have an sk?

something's up

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 06:50 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4645943)
we have to have either an sk or a vig for that kill. freezin claimed something, so i bet the town wouldn't vig him. we prolly have a serial killer

so if the only prs we have is gunsmith and hider, then we have 4 T's, which would mean that we don't have an sk?

something's up

The revised roles gives us an sk at 4 Ts

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 06:58 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
RRHTTT is what we have for sure since two goons are dead. We still have a missing letter that can be either vigi or sk. Tps says he was hiding shows either of these scenarios.

1. He is telling the truth and the wolves tried to kill him and missed since he wasn't there to kill.

2. He claimed blue but is sk and his vest is gone and planned this knowing he'd be safe.
2a. I realize this would only just delay his death, but there's a few ways he can pull off surviving, this is a high risk, high reward play.

3. We have an unclaimed doctor or jail keeper and they succeed.

I believe 1 is the best bet, 2 and 3 i want to talk about just to sr what everyone thinks the potential is of them.

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:00 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

3. With this, there's also a vigi, since the cannot be an sk in this scenario.

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:00 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
Also hi xiz and freezin. >=)

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:12 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
Who else thinks ind is wolf for not voting.

Who else thinks all three wolves were on me?

Who else thinks piccolo is a better father?

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:15 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

all two wolves. Im up to early apparently.

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:16 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
My friend is downstairs and my door is closed and i still can hear him snore. Fuck him.

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:17 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

someone shut me up.

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 07:18 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
We're killing InD or pre today. Guess where i wanna go... >=)

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 08:33 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

My case for pre. Now before you continue further. I believe the game is solved.

Pre is the SK, and InD is wolf. I'm for sure on pre, 85% on InD. I ISO'd pre to push back and show him up, but I kept seeing some really towny thinking posts that would be hard to fake as a wolf. If I'm wrong on this part, so be it. But I think Pre dies here for sure regardless of wolf/sk.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4641603)
This always drive me crazy. I get why it's d0 here, but the first day is d1 everywhere else, and you are all destroying my sense of internal consistency when you do that. Shame on everyone here.

He enters the game at like post 106? with this. I get it was D1, but nothing was said besides this.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4641607)
Only in a mangled, awkward accent--the kind that be produced by the unnatural muzzle of a werewolf, twisted and remade by the lycanthropic process!


Or possibly someone who bit their tongue really hard. If it's the latter, I sympathize!


I guess what I'm saying is, I hope your tongue feels better!

Here, in hindsight, they vote a town jokingly, but that's always a good thing for scum because they can play off of it to their liking. To use it to push their motive, or use it to push away saying it was a joke.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642590)
Sorry for my absence. I've been busy with a real life obligation that came out of nowhere. I'm not sure if I'll be available at EoD or not. I definitely won't be available tomorrow (Saturday), but thankfully that doesn't really matter. My availability on Sunday will likely be limited early on.

Quick reads:

FG--Null. Post volume is fine, content is basically nonexistent. Tone isn't the deliberately unhelpful belligerence that a lot of people adopt--it's more friendly I guess, which is consistent with my past perception of Funny. Not a lot to go off of here.

inD--Slight town lean. Respectable post volume + actual game-related content. Tone is consistent throughout--a touch of humor and aggression, but mostly general game talk. I actually had inD as solid town at first, then convinced myself that the whole thing was almost too even-keel. But I honestly can't find anything that really bothers me.

Cel--Moderate town lean. It's not that it's impossible to fake this sort of game, but there's always going to be an element of deception to a wolf game--that can manifest itself in trying to toe the line too neutrally, or in being super aggressive and hiding in plain sight, or in seeming helpful while really not saying much at all. Or a million other things. Celirra has been engaged and has provided a thought structure to their game, yet has also been sort of sarcastic without being belligerent. I feel like this is a hard line to walk as scum.

WC--Null, slight town lean. So last game, I was a wolf, and one of the people I sort of falsely wolf read was WC, because that sort of jokey, flippant, not-super-engaged playstyle is easy to target, and I tend to suspect it in general. WC is doing more of that--to a degree, but it feels like there's more content here than there was early for them last time. The occasional focus on Sun Fan and Cel feels sort of real--like it would be an unnecessary complication if WC was a wolf and was just recreating this playstyle. But the thing about meta is that people are better at recreating it than given credit for, and the more game-focused play here is almost slightly offputting to me. That's a good development game-wise, but it leaves me undecided as to the actual alignment of the slot.

Gradiant--Moderate town lean. I didn't like how their game started--it felt sort of falsely engaged, but that impression dissipated quickly. For all the discussion that's happened, there hasn't really been much in the way of pointed questions, and I feel like Gradiant has done a good job making posts that cut to the point. The thing is, an experienced player can simulate towniness well enough, but the game so far has felt sort of unfocused, and Gradiant's posts have been probing and relevant.

--Town lean? The question mark is relevant because DBP's game feels like a departure from what I'm used to from them (not that I have a ton of experience with everyone, but whatever). It's tonally more aggressive than I would expect, and while I like the game-focus and the fact that DBP is pursuing things, it's more authoritative and less congenial than I would expect. The actual content itself is okay, and I wouldn't expect this type of play from a wolf-DBP. But it's weird nevertheless. It's also sort of a change from their very early game.

Xiz--Null, to slight wolf lean. So, in the last TWG, Xiz and I were both wolves. His game feels a little bit different here, which is a good sign I guess, but...he's doing a lot of the same things. And I suppose that could just be Xiz's style, and I definitely have a weakness where I associate non-game play with wolfiness, but...when people aren't doing game related things, and also aren't pressuring other people to talk, but are posting--it's dead space. It creates the impression of activity, and by avoiding game talk, it's harder to self-implicate. The thing is, Xiz's tone is a little different than last game, and I don't know if that's relevant.

Freezin (a.k.a Anti-Pearl)--True null. I'm suspicious of this slot, despite there being no content (which I don't blame the slot for) mostly because I don't see anything egregious from the other, active slots. But yeah, there's simply nothing to report on here.

Blind--Slight town lean. Low volume obviously, but that's not alignment indicative. The posts definitely are relevant but not necessarily useful--#482 is the most interesting. It's not hard to read wolfiness into something that discusses a scum perspective, but there was no obligation to do that, and it does apply currently (theorycraft is limited at this stage given the format).

TPS--Null. Obviously the post volume has been low, but what's there has been game-relevant and thoughtful, but not necessarily directly challenging. Sound like anyone you know? In any case, #463 definitely points to prior mafia/werewolf experience, and his posts include legitimate observations. I just feel like there should be more actual engagement given the...familiarity of his style. The fact that I'm not town-reading this slot gives me a bad feeling given TPS's tone, but I feel like a lot of that is due to the limited content, and I want to see more here.

Syhto--Slight wolf lean. And part of me thinks I'm reading them this way just because of that style of play. But more than that, the slot feels forced. I don't mind asking questions, but players who emphasize their newness tend to do so as a crutch, and it's a little alarming. The cutesy suntan nickname thing feels off to me as well; the whole persona feels too much like an effort to blend in with the rather casual-yet-sarcastic group tone these games tend to have. The funny thing is, I'd be inclined to town-read the slot based on the claims of unreadability, because its so needlessly WIFOMish that it invites attention I wouldn't expect a newish wolf to want. But that clashes with the later claims a bit.

Sun Fan
--Slight town lean. Gameplay itself is almost generically town-sided, but there's clear investment given the post volume + the actual content and pressure. The thing is, the mix of gameplay, interaction, and offtopic stuff is almost formulaic--Sun manages to talk about both this specific game and TWG in general without always trying to solve it. And the more I go over it, the less substantial it feels. But the tone is almost too assured for a wolf.

This reads list is all kinds of ew in hindsight.(I'm gonna use that word a lot apparently.)
Xiz is wolf read here, which is correct, and I felt like it was a push for disconnect before the theory of pre being sk came to mind.

Freezin-He's suspicious but leans him null? That's an odd thing to do, especially now that we know it is a wolf slot.

blind- He's not liking that I haven't done a lot, but he leans me town, and likes a post I made about the wolves knowing more info than we do.

Sytho- Reads a town in hindsight wolfy. Not good obviously.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642627)
Blind's spot has been inactive, obviously--not a lot of posts, and not a lot of content in those posts. That was actually a legitimate observation though--the wolf team can use their own roles to at least estimate how many town power roles there might be. You know, this:

I like theorycraft a lot more than most, although most of isn't really applicable yet, given that there's no way to know what sort of gamestate we have. One of the few things we can do at this stage is recognize that the wolves have a slight information advantage, using themselves to extrapolate on the gamestate. It's not that useful to the wolves, much less the town, but that recognition was interesting to me because it showed a kind of engagement that was otherwise absent from blind's posts. Whether that's because he's a wolf who would have had reason to think that way, or just because it was "analysis" that could be done absent following the thread, is sort of what I was getting at. I actually tend to believe it's the latter.

In this post he uses THE REVISED TOWN ROLES POSTED IN THE OP, and then uses the wiki later, you guys know this because we dug into each other because of it.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642632)
Of course you're not, I have you listed as wolfy. But I'd actually agree it's a bit mushy--this game kind of sucks right now, since everyone is sort of blending together.

xiz doesn't like pre's reads list, and pre states it mush and it's not that great.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642696)
Start by coming up with an actual reason for voting for me. Votes with no context are useless in a group setting.

Here, he pushes on sunfan to make a legit push or get off of him in a minor tone that doesn't say he's scared or anything, but I see that he's weary of him becoming a lynch, which everyone does, so eh.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642770)

Beyond my actual read, I'm kind of weirded out by the fact that when Sun Fan was voting him, there was a fair bit of discussion and yet no one jumped on the would-have-been wagon.

votes town.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4642825)
I'm well aware of that. The fact that you seem to feel the need to tell me that suggests that you don't actually want to vote me. If you have a better vote, make it.

A continued push for sunfan to get off of him in a more serious tone.

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643223)
Okay, I'm free from my real life obligation now. Catching up.

Here's where I first called pre wolfy. He didn't post for 24 HOURS after this. Sketchy as Sketchers.

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643433)
Okay, I'm basically going to just be posting direct reactions to the whole day basically.

My basic leans are:

Xiz, Cel, DBP, Sun, inD - town

WC, Freezin - null

FG, Blind, TPS - Wolfy

But these reads feel kind of shitty. They're more or less in likelihood of individual anti-town (e.g. someone wolfy is more likely to be a wolf than null, and null than town), but it's still largely just behavioral, and I wouldn't be surprised to find a wolf in my town group. But vacillating aside, that's where I'm at. I'll be making a lot of posts all in a row.

Regarding yesterday, I haven't really seen a lot of discussion regarding possible distributions. Only one NK makes it less likely that there's a SK, but obviously not impossible--a blocked kill could be a thing. At this stage, there's still too little info to piece together what the actual enemy state is, but this is something that should be considered as more information becomes available.

Here, we see that Funny and I have flipped into this wolfy pile from towny pile. Along with our blue there as well, which is understandable since tps is not around a lot at the time.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643435)
Thoughts on the lynch and the night kill.

The end of the day was, as it often is, a mess. Ironically, the three players that formed the final wagons (multiple votes) were probably my three most town-cleared at the time. That's partially due to my own biases—I tend to town read “towny”/game-active players on D1—but it's weird to me that people immediately moved toward those players. Admittedly, activity invites examination, and therefore suspicion, but that was a weird direction to go.

I was planning a big case against Syhto. Guess not. While Syhto is obviously cleared now, I still find it weird how little engagement there was on the topic—even if people were town-reading, I feel like there should have been more to it.

He had a mind set to push sytho and claimed that.... After she flipped town. Odd to say and nothing was said on it. Wolf thoughts to look towny imo.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643444)
I agree with this order.


Having said that, I could be wrong about the order, to the extent it's even relevant. Gradiant's flip guarantees the reads were made in good faith, but they were also made under duress (time and looming votes). I don't really see InD or Sun as particularly wolfy, and even Funny is more a PoE thing relative to the overall player pool. But whether or not they're right, they're at least worth considering as honest assessments.

On the other hand, there's a fair amount of OMGUS involved, as two of the three Gradiant voters were also on his list.

Here he agrees that looking into the pool gradiant listed and looking at who voted him was a good idea to do.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643447)
That would be FG, DBP, Sun Fan, and inD. There's a lot of overlap between the two pools—FG and Sun Fan are in both. DBP voted Gradiant, inD was on the last testament. I'm sort of leaning toward FG so far, but even there I don't feel great about it. I wouldn't say we should necessarily limit to this pool—it's not like there's guaranteed to be a bad guy in it. But all of those people warrant attention if for no other reason than their proximity to Gradiant.


Not the best look here.

Here he says while its a good idea, it's not the best to look only here because a wolf isn't guaranteed. Which I guess is true....

He also calls me out on my celery vote that I said I'll be changing, which is meh.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643448)
Last one for now.

Xiz feels townier than last game. Obviously there's a bias there on my part, I feel like he's pushing in a way he didn't before. I'm not getting a lot of white noise here. Even the off topic stuff has toned down.


Even by my standards you're quiet, then you immediately vote based off a single post that you don't “like,” absent any analysis? And on a wagon gaining momentum? Man, I'm not feeling the Prec vibe anymore.

Says xiz is townier than last game, even though he was on his wolf list earlier. Not much happened between while reading the ISO, that's not a good look here to me.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643559)
You're clearly not reading the thread very closely--yet you were in a hurry to make an already presented observation seem like you're own. And then you quote my response again without actually reading it. You're not invested, but you're pretending that you are.


Says I wasn't reading the thread, but I have been. I haven't even skimmed a shit post people. I'm bad at conveying thoughts, so people have a grand ol' time construing my words.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643561)
Copy-pasted another vote and didn't change the name lol.


why copy paste? and that's odd to forget to do that during an easy process.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643624)
This is why I voted you. You're not reading the thread. There was like a page of comments on the same thing you're talking about from DBP and Sun.

Then, when you posted about it, I explicitly stated that it had already been discussed, at considerable length, and yet you doubled down on it, despite the fact that you then did the same thing I did. Even after I explained what happened, and someone else called it embarrassing, you had no idea what was going on. It's not just my "novels," it was discussed at length by multiple people.

You're not reading the thread.

Of course I'm gonna stick my feet into something I find wolfy as fuck. I did not do the same thing though as he stated. I used the wiki as reference to use statistics at the chance of having only 2 wolves is very low. He misread what I said to push his motive.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643669)
This is actually a valid point.

Agrees on this (about who cares) a town in hindsight why he got no heat. Wants him dead obviously.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643706)
That could, somewhat awkwardly, justify your original post Blind. But then I clarified that it had been discussed

Emphasis on:

"People have already gone over this."

Which should have been a hint that, you know, people had gone over the topic already. I also noted the reason for the confusion, that mafiascum differed from the actual setting.

You doubled down on both ideas, ignoring the mention of other people, as well as my explanation that mafiascum was not an exact description of this game state.

You then tripled down on the idea, still having even in the most charitable reading not bothered to read what other people had written.

After the what what what post, I did catch up and read everyone's post on the subject, but that is null and void when he's bringing up the argument that it had already been discussed. Even if it had been, and I did read it. I want to discuss it, and I'm damn well going to. I don't care if someone else has.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643721)
Is no one going to consider this, seriously?

He really wants to push my lynch here, but we are all somewhere else.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643726)
Because he's caught and keeps digging himself in deeper.

I have not dug a hole for myself at this point (or any point this game), but I tunneled on his mess up and refused to debate otherwise, so my fault.

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643739)
I'll vote Cel over Funny, who has sold me on her game, but there is a better option.

Funny yet again switches sides in his reads.

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4643757)
Sticking with Blind.

Instead of going with the top two candidates, he sticks his vote on me, and doesn't care about anything else.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645122)
Even if you assume I misinterpreted his explanation, and that his excuse is valid, it still doesn't explain the Whats post. That was an extreme overreaction to something relatively minor. If you had bothered to read my subsequent deep dive into Blind, you'd have also noticed that he sheeped other arguments at least twice during D2, leading me to suspect that my initial interpretation--that he saw people discussing the dumbtell, then went fully in on someone else's work--is correct.

I did not sheep on D2, so I don't know what he's talking about. (I'm not reading D2 again, fuck that)

Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645134)
EBWOP: Okay, I see you posted.

Here's how I'm seeing it: the wolves would be inclined to eliminate a power role given the opportunity, since most could either implicate or kill them, or block their own NKs. That would make Tps and Freezin likely night targets. But, things are complicated if Tps is a Hider or a Doctor/Jailkeeper. Attacking Hider Tps would result in a failed NK; not attacking him could allow him to protect or jailkeep depending on what if any JOAT powers have been used (TTT gives us two goons and a JOAT).

If Tps is an I or an R, he should imo reveal that and any investigative results.

Here is the towny post That really stuck out to me. This is what made me realize he is the SK, which he would benefit from keeping the wolves on their tip toes since at the time, 3 were alive.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645315)
Even if everyone were to accept that, it doesn't change the fact that I made a huge case that ignored the dumbtell thing entirely.


That's funny. Because I seem to recall this:

I guess it's only bad when someone else is doing it.


This is a really good reason not to vote you. Because some other people agreed at some point. Compelling.

The smirk comment at the end really had me confused, but that is exactly why people don't get lynched in this game. Because the overall statement is more people think you're town than scum. At least for the time being.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645336)
Just going to make the point that this is another point in favor of their truthfulness; Vengeful would be a gutsy fakeclaim because, absent everything else, the role only realizes its power by being lynched. Hence such a lynch is always theoretically on the table.

This also stood out as towny. It's also funny because the vengeful claim was fake. lmao


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645409)
Blind is a wolf by case.
Funny is a wolf by association.

Freezin and Tps are town by mechanical probability.

That leaves one wolf in a pool of Sun, Cel, inD, and Xiz.

These are all people that, in another situation, I'd lean more toward town on, but one has to be a wolf, and each has an aspect that leaves me uncomfortable.

Sun Fan falls under the umbrella of association by association--when I was ISOing Funny, I noticed a fair amount of pro-Sun posts. Sun's also currently scum-leaning on me because he disagrees with my reads, which is a poor method of thinking. On the other hand, I had Sun near the top of my town pile most of the game, and his work on the mechanics of the massclaim was both solid and pro-town.

Cel is a hard player to evaluate, since their high post volume and varied style leads to a sort of peaks-and-valleys reading of their game for me. There have been a couple times where I weakened on Cel more than anyone else in this group, usually due to jokey stuff that felt off at the time. But they've been so active and willing to engage just about anything that it strikes me as a dangerous position for scum to take. Early on, people told me that a scum Cel had been a sort of fence-sitter in a previous game, and while Cel has by virtue of activity kind of been in a lot of different places, it's not something I would really call fence sitting.

In both Sun and Cel's cases, I'd really want to do a deeper dive, and there's nowhere near enough time to do so right now.

inD has probably been the least "offensive" player in the group--by which I mean they've done nothing that really stuck out to me as problematic. But that's concerning in and of itself--that sort of even-keel tone is something that a lot of wolves strive for. I felt most of us in the Fire Emblem game were sort of going for that. But again, there's nothing overt, and his response to my Blind post felt real--an independent, active engagement with its ideas.

Xiz has mindmelded with me a bit, and that scares me because I can't help but wonder if I'm being pocketed. A large part of my reading of Xiz has come down to my experience with him as wolves in the FE game, and he feels more invested and focused this time around. Admittedly, he was busy in that game some of the time, which may have contributed to a different approach, but even at the end he played his role by posting a furry porn copypasta. This Xiz feels different, but he'd also know that I think.

There's not a lot a separation in this group for me. At all. I'd probably go

Cel > Xiz > inD > Sun

out of the four right now, with Cel as the towniest, but that's a really weak order for me. Blind and Funny would be my top scum picks today by a considerable margin.


Originally Posted by Precarious (Post 4645483)
Xiz wagon is dirty.

Cel before xiz to save a partner first, and then go against them if pre has to. That's if he's wolf.


blindreper1179 08-25-2018 08:34 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]


Funnygurl555 08-25-2018 08:34 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
blind i have never seen you try this hard in a twg

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 08:35 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]
No one posted in that hour?


Funnygurl555 08-25-2018 08:36 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

blindreper1179 08-25-2018 08:36 AM

Re: TWG CLXXX - OuO what's this? [Game Thread]

Originally Posted by Funnygurl555 (Post 4645960)
blind i have never seen you try this hard in a twg

Find the game roundbox hosted a long time ago. I had netjet? As wolf and made a huge ass reads list and TOWN FAILED ME AND KILLED ME INSTEAD AND WE LOST.

I be perfectly honest, I don't try hard a lot, and I usually just float on by. But when I have something, I wanna take it.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution