Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Also

Dude

Mindmeld

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

that means we're both wrong whoof

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I am glad you acknowledge that I have won. I thought you may be too ego-eccentric to admit it.

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to be precise, the strategy is to lynch inactives IF THERE ARE ANY, not to always lynch from the bottom third or so

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Out of curiosity what doea mine sound like?

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how could i deny the greatness that is our Lord Xelnya hoooooooooooooow

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ISOs are a bit tricky here but go to "The Werewolf Game" subforum and find this game, then click on the hyperlinked number of posts, it lets you break down each character's posts

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someone getting slapped continuously

oh wait that might be mine actually

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I have gotten what I wanted from this game, and now see no reason to care further.

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as an aside, leetic what is your home community?

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I don't have one! I'm originally from Bulbagarden, but I don't really play there anymore.

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fellow drifters

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C H A R A C T E R

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I'm probably gonna say mean things later but speaking strictly outside of this game: we always love new members and you'll always be welcomed here as long you enjoy playing.

Inside of the game though your vote is bad and you should feel bad but past that i await your reads list

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"Xelnya as been replaced effective immediately"

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hahahahaha a d0 reads list

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there's more to this though

1) Information. In the late-game we have more information on other players. An inactive player is a ???? that usually necessarily needs to be resolved because their slot is more valuable. That is, the information entropy of each slot is higher in endgame. So when a slot is completely unreadable in Final 5, it's much worse than if that slot is unreadable in Final 15 or w/e.
2) Similar to above--- when we make critical lynches we need them to be informed. D0 is never a critical lynch, so in the world where Inactive X is town, that outcome is less shitty than if you save that lynch for later.
3) Hiding space. Simply put, by killing off potential dead-weight you are necessarily forcing the wolves to engage more, since there will be less hiding room.
4) What happens so many times (read: Animal Crossing game) is that an actual wolf player will get traction in some middle phase, but -somehow- the momentum shifts to an inactive. Usually very hard to tell is anybody is pulling the strings, so we always say "OK, if this inactive is town, ALWAYS ALWAYS lynch this wolfy person" but guess what? There is ALWAYS a fucking way out of it the NEXT phase if there are still inactive presences. This literally is what lost town the last game: our inability to stick to our convictions and instead be distracted by random noise.
5) Making this an actual policy forces wolves in general to post more. This is pro-town since it increases the amount of information we have about each wolf, as well as increasing the volume of incriminating/contradictory/slippish posts

there you go

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

How one reacts to a bad vote

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Serious post i think DBP's reaction to Haku skews hin town enough that as long as he doesn't take his town read and dips outta the thread until d2 I'm good to take him off the table

I'll never be able to read Haku d0 so he can just get off my table as well.

I'll gutread Bolth and FFA as town too but we're not taking them off the table so much as placing them on the lazy susan and spinning them to the far side for a bit

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:eyes:

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I'll provide my cheat sheet if someone wants to win this game as town.

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Like idk if you guys ever played Final Fantasy 10, but if you had Kimahri in your party for the majority of the game, you're gonna have a bad fuckin time in endgame because he sucks. typically you get Kimahri and then never play as him so that those experience points can go to like, Auron or Rikku.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Just having another read up to speed before dinner...

IDK what to feel about most stuff up to #281. I feel so lost without any meta. (other than the Animal Crossing game obv)

I will say that MML vs Haku feels TvT.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

that's why you cull inactives early on. QED

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Mmmmm indeed sir

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so have we

active wolves pick off active/easy targets yeah. the question is what are we left with after that's done. a buncha mid-high posters or a buncha nobody posters. your choice

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surprisingly, I do not get nightkilled very frequently on this forum despite being among the higher posters

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oh ok missed this post

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If town is lynching someone just because they're inactive, then I don't really have any faith in those high posters anyway. If they were truly trying, they'd be able to find a better target.

Although, I do think we should stop this discussion. We can argue about the ethics of lynching inactives as long as we want, but none of this is getting us any closer to finding scum.

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For that, there needs to actually be pressure...I don't think any one person is even close to lynch at this point.


How about Haku and their whole interaction with MML? What's your take on it?

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gonna let this feud go on but have a general comment on this later

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watching tv is a bad habit tho
my mom watches this thing almost every day called "news" and I swear she's addicted

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Lead the way

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mml
leetic is right

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I mean I hate that so many of my posts have been about this but I think it's important to establish the "why"

If nobody lynches low-posters because "no information" and wolves only nightkill "high-posters" then literally you are gonna be left with a bunch of fucking no-posters and that is quite literally game over.

Sure if you have a power-scumread early on go for it. I use to do it all the time until very recently. If you are correct then we have a better best-case scenario. The problem is that the worst-worst-case scenario of doing this brings the game into the shit-tier.

The other thing is that your odds of correctly guessing a wolf in D0 is so, so low unless you really have convincing evidence. Most of the time you're trading off a proactive town (which is VERY valuable later on) for an inactivate town (which usually actually gives town a mathematical disadvantage). I'd go as far as to say that the mathematically-optimal best move for ensuring a solid average-case scenario is to lynch the inactive D0.

I had the same reservations you do now, I thought of it as an easy wolf copout. But at least on this site, this shit wins games.

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How many of your posts have been scumhunting vs. "Let's just lynch all the lowposters"? I'm beginning to question your motives for putting so much effort into arguing this point but not so much in finding scum

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I mean fuck, people used to call my D0 "Hero Mode" because of how often I deliberately avoided inactives and when balls-to-the-wall on a specific scumread I had. When it works it's badass as fuck but most of the time it's wrong, then the inevitable "well, DBP is wolf because he pushed so hard here", and then the me having to try Hero Mode AGAIN to convince people that I'm actually town, etc.

more of an anecdotal thing which I'm trying to stray away from, and also why I've been advocating more towards democratic&policy-based lynches instead of hot shounen fire

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yeah man being wrong sucks but on the plus side it makes your scum game a lot better

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they're not mutually exclusive, I've been doing actual game-solving

the reason why I'm wasting so much of my time explaining this is so that you all actually get it and we don't end in a shitty CFD like we always do

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tbf "being wrong hero mode" is what won me my champs qualifer game

except I was the hero and I was a wolf

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What feud? Thinks a post that isnt even emotional is faking emotion and tried voting for me before making a case.

Not sure what I'm expected to do. Throw a hissy fit and type out a bunch of wordy dirds to prove I'm town?

Frankly, leetic's case is all the defense i should even need

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I think usually it's pretty level but I can definitely feel your shouting when you get mad, e.g. at xel or blindreper

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*mental boom*


hey I should go ask nutella to be a sub for this game so that we can all reunite, but this time we set the timeline straight and lynch you

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Is it bad that this is the closest thing to a read that I have seen from you? I mean, we can criticize inactives but you have posted more than anyone else and your ISO is rather shallow.

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personally I hear MML's accent when he types

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uh it's more that FMPOV there's no reason for me to defend you despite my own opinions since we all learn more by having you and leetik engage directly

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Dude i can tell you are just trying to poke the bear here because you think its funny whenever i go off on someone.

Dude what have you brought to the table other then post actively engaging in that discussion? Its not like DBP is repeating himself or giving two line shitty retorts to you

Without this we'd be sitting here watching Haku spin out of control and whining there wasnt anything going on anyway.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Any reason why you would not be doing anything?

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idk it feels like I've actually been game-solving, at least in how I'm using my brain, engaging in Socratic discussion with people

at any rate, I think MML, Haku, Xelnya, DUsk are towny
you are leaning-town but that also depends on how you engage after you dig on MML
Of course in terms of actual lynching psycho, jessie, and xiz is the best pool. Xiz in particular I want to directly engage with because reasons.

rest I'm not focusing on so far, maybe ully and bolt on the scummier end of null

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

just so we're clear it's a good thing that you are casting votes and grilling people now, no one is tryna get you to stop using your brain, it's more an assertion about proper mechanical play for when the time comes

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But all he's doing is being dense with you, implying youre scum for trying to explain your stance, amd voting me because of what is basically his gutread on how i post.

So like, there aint even nothing for me to defend against here unless i go hulk mode over a meaningless d0 vote

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Poke the bear?
Yeah
Think it's funny?
Perhaps
Because?
Naaaah

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I started the inactive discussion

You know, the discussion thats been dominating the thread?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

If you have less than 25 posts, please post more if/when you have free time to do so.
You may have no idea how to go about the game, but it doesn't matter.
Our team of trained monkeys need to evaluate your very valuable data.

This is an automated message from the haku cbf hotline

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I don't disagree with you, but seeing the interaction also lets me analyze leetic too

unless you become an actual serious lynch target, it helps me to watch this play out because stifling conversation/arguments isn't usually a good thing unless it's Haku

when two characters argue, usually they either arrive at a Socratic conclusion, OR there will be lingering tension. both outcomes are useful from a game-solving standpoint. for me right now, it's mostly about leetic, but hearing these developments regardless is not a bad thing

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Ok well i can spoil for you know he likes to deflect and throw stuff back at you even if that makes him imply some incrediably wacked shit like me not doing anything to start discussions or whatever

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

I don't know what you want me to do for you right now

stand up for you? I've said my opinions already and I don't want to spend all my time on an investigation on something I find stupid that is currently yielding diminishing returns

I can say that I think the leetic/MML discussion doesn't seem fruitful in its own sake, I'm not going to railroad the thread about this right now though, and like I said I'd rather see this play out a little bit longer and focus on other things so I can make more useful progress for my own game solving

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

what I was going to say to leetic earlier was that I don't think MML's reaction to leetic voting him is that unusual. I'm more accustomed to town reactions being something like his, or "why?", and asking for actual reasoning

if the voter has a bad case, or a single-liner, townies are more likely not throw a bitch-fit about it, unless the voter is really insistent on the vote

leetic's one stated argument is not compelling to me, and MML's reactions to it are mostly what I would expect from towny MML

that's all I have to say about that atm

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

No no no I will never ever need someone to stand up for me in this game.

I'm just popping off raw thoughts that are (perhaps unfairly) directed at you

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ok y'all started talking

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Those last through the door are expected to effort poat first btw

I have great expectations of you

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dbp are you doing okay?

your tone is more acerbic than i'm used to

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welcome to mml

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you'll be sorely disappointed lmaoooo

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I was gonna wait for Xiz to come back but I'll just elaborate on this now

Xiz is in the low-poster pool obviously, but this post gave me extra reason to suspect him:

namely his hint of the SK

Normally I wouldn't raise an eyebrow about this, the SK might be part of the game, but there are a few red flags here in particular

His response is in terms of "getting information from the game". He asserts that mislynching is better than no-lynching, which is certainly true, even if the mislynch information is from an inactive. But then he says "we ONLY get new information from wolves" which is technically not true because of Power Roles, but ok I can see why you might say that in shorthand. But THEN he tacks on the SK as a source of information which is... not the logical next step there.

It's unnatural to stick the SK there and not, like, any other mention of PRs... even if you were thinking of nightkills, then surely there's the Vigi too. Unless something specific is in your consciousness as you type.

Add on top of this the fact that this is his only substantive post (out of four posts total), and that to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time anybody has mentioned the Serial Killer. Somebody's got Serial Killer on the mind. IMO that is wolf-aligned.

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I was mad that I had to undo my reads because of a misreading, "unlearning" cognitive bias is hard, luckily Xiz only has four of those posts though

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what do i sound like??????

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fair. i don't remember a single thing xiz has posted so

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Hey leetic

Is there a reason you ignored both of my questions?

Is there a reason why you've kept your vote on MML and (despite getting support from FFA) have started badgering DaBackpack instead of trying to convince people and build momentum?

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

Didn't catch this at the time

Worth having Xiz answer for.

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that makes sense

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ii pocketing me hard

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

To be precise, the question is about "getting information about player alignment." If you mention lynches and wolf kills, those are usually the default things we would jump to as information sources. But then you add Serial Killer. You can then say "OK Serial Killer gives a night kill too", but then so does Vigilante. It doesn't feel natural to add SK and NOT any other PRs.

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

hmm
could dbp be town

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I think so!

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Ok i know i typed Uli
Not sure what word autocorrect was reaching for but considering as much as I've mistyped and warped the feature it doesn't surprise me


-----


I'm stepping away from the game for a few hours. Wanna see Uli push more and wanna see Leetic address the questions and posts aimed at him.

And morw from you Funny

Dont quote people, make jokes and then dip, it wouldnt be nice to talk me into a game and then not give it your all. We gotta have you drop serious insights.

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In general it's really dangerous to reason about other players' states of mind on something like this, which is why I find it important that Xiz come back and have something specific to respond to so that we can directly engage with him

I know he's playing FF14, which is gonna take some time from him, but I'm hoping that any kind of further interaction will at least steer us in the right direction

Re: TWG 194 - Game Thread
 

ok yeah that pings me now tbh. the wording like you said is off