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-   -   Expanding the difficulty spectrum (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=128166)

One Winged Angel 01-9-2013 05:21 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen (Post 3831818)
The whole AT/M8BT argument doesn't make sense to me though, the problem with AT vs. M8BT is that you're doing a constant 150 BPM 32nd stream that forces you to transition into and out of mini-trills in AT, but you get interrupted with a lot of easier patterns in M8BT that allow you to regain your bearings, in addition to the song being 10 BPM slower without a constant point. How are these at all comparable?

AT's one handed trills are no more than four notes long iirc, whereas M8BT has several one handed trills 6-8 notes in length. It's possible to cheat these as jumps if you can hit between two frame intervals well, otherwise you'll keep the FC but destroy your PA in the process. Hitting the one handed sections in M8BT as they were intended to be hit makes it very easy to fall behind and dump a boatload of goods before resorting to mashspam to keep your combo. I know you mentioned AT is constant whereas M8BT's tougher section has breaks, but I also use the non-trill sections of AT's stream to regain my bearings if I notice I've fallen behind, as the streamier sections at the first and last bars of each measure during that section are a lot more manageable to hit than the middle two 'trilly' bars. That's just me though.

I took a look at the two scoreboards just now. Top 30 on both files look very similar, after which AT's scoreboard starts to get really sloppy with players that don't have the speed to keep up with 300bpm stream. Then again, AT's top 10 is a bit cleaner than M8BT's. I still think they're of comparable difficulty to AAA. If anything, I definitely wouldn't want to push M8BT down, so if something's to happen, I'd rather AT be pushed up.

p.s. I really like the idea of a new, legitimate file with the same unlock requirements replacing vrofl. +1

Hateandhatred 01-9-2013 05:22 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
I think Poison got it really. As far as Vrofl is concerned, why do we even need to rate that file on that scale?

I am a defender of Vrofl - I want it in game pretty badly. However, I see absolutely no need of putting it on the 1-99 scale. Just make it ?? or simply nothing. It's not a matter of being a newbie to FFR and being informed of the difficulty, or being someone trying to find a file to score on/reach a difficulty milestone.

In my eyes, Vrofl is just some easter egg of ffr, you can get and play, but is pointless. It only qualifies as a file and that's it. Same sort of idea with Whimper Wall (why did this have to go, it was pretty cool! xD).

qqwref 01-9-2013 05:57 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
IMO we shouldn't stick to the 99 limit. What happens when we add more files around that level, which we very well might considering all the new 88+s? If we eventually allow raw scoring it would make it a lot more reasonable to have files around RATO level or harder (imagine some fun, hard midare style dumps), and instead of worrying about being stuck against the 99 wall, we could just play around with the difficulties around that level. Maybe someday we'll have DP at 102, RATO at 106, and vrofl at 117. Or something :)

Patashu 01-9-2013 06:13 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
make vROFL 255, no one plays it except to pass it anyway so it's not like anyone cares how hard it is

bmah 01-9-2013 06:37 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref (Post 3831923)
IMO we shouldn't stick to the 99 limit. What happens when we add more files around that level, which we very well might considering all the new 88+s? If we eventually allow raw scoring it would make it a lot more reasonable to have files around RATO level or harder (imagine some fun, hard midare style dumps), and instead of worrying about being stuck against the 99 wall, we could just play around with the difficulties around that level. Maybe someday we'll have DP at 102, RATO at 106, and vrofl at 117. Or something :)

I suppose that could be considered if FFR does go raw scoring, but I haven't even come to close to speculating to that point yet.

popsicle_3000 01-9-2013 07:47 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel (Post 3831775)
I don't like the current 1-20 splits using this new scaling for the most difficult files, but then again, I've been hoping we could go back to 1-13 for quite some time now.

1-20 never really took off. I still refer to old system, but w/ 1-99 rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel (Post 3831775)
Everyone's good at Eclipse nowadays for some reason beyond me,

I've been wondering this myself lol. the scoreboard on that song is starting to get crazy now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref (Post 3831923)
Maybe someday we'll have DP at 102, RATO at 106, and vrofl at 117. Or something :)

maybe let's worry about that if raw scoring ever gets implemented?


as for vrofl... that's a tricky one. i def think it shouldn't be rated (and TWWW, p4u v1, CP and OMG could be unrated as well, i care less about those). how you word it, be it ??, or ffr extra, etc... that could be debated. In the end I don't think it really matters.
However, replacing the chart for vROFL... I dont think that's a good idea for a few reasons. It's the token with the craziest and most unique reqs. Fitting that a crazy chart accompany the token. It's also the most coveted of tokens, for better or for worse. How would you pick a file for it? not to mention the subjectiveness of good charts, make a good FGO chart, and it's just another token FGO that D1-4 will hardly play. Make an easier chart, and it's AAA'd once then forgotten. I recon vROFL as it stands equalizes the token for anyone who gets it. It's a joke file, impossible for ANYONE to score on, regardless of skill. I recon it fits.

DossarLX ODI 01-9-2013 08:41 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Concerning putting RATO and DP as 99s, Death Piano is harder to FC but RATO is harder to score on. Both their scoreboards are very messy, but Death Piano has less FCs. I can see them both being 99.

Also, a file getting ingame to be harder than those files has a 99% chance of being rejected. DP and RATO have bad patterns, and to have a harder file you'd have to be going Brutality Tournament status.

popsicle_3000 01-9-2013 08:44 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI (Post 3832127)
Death Piano is harder to FC

ahhhhhh, that explains the worse top 20 scoreboard on DP

EzExZeRo7497 01-9-2013 08:53 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
+1 to the idea of a legitimate hard file replacing vROFL as the token prize. I feel that vROFL shouldn't be a prize to begin with, why try so hard to play a file that you can't even do legitimately..?

Wouldn't mind seeing it as a token with other requirements though.

EDIT: Wouldn't mind seeing DP and RATO as 99s, RATO requires speed to svore well on, and mostly difficult to score on through out the file, but DP has a lot of tricky bits, some harder to FC/score on compared to RATO.

emulord 01-9-2013 09:50 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
I agree 99s should be Ridiculous, ??s should be WTF. It looks weird sorting by difficulty and seeing the huge gaps in the 90s.
I disagree with changing the Vrofl song. You just can't do that. Its a bragging token, not really meant to be played. There are plenty of places for legitimate difficult files to be added.
Also, I like Rato and DP as super hard real songs. Just because you're bad at overly difficult charts doesnt mean you're entitled to complain about it. Besides, its 2 songs, it can't affect avg rank too much.

Lambdadelta 01-10-2013 06:52 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Hey, was going to type this yesterday but shit came up.

Proposal: Why not make Crowdpleaser v1 the Skill token and then make Crowdpleaser v2 the song to unlock it on? It would wipe Crowdpleaser from the level ranks and it would be one less Bullshit song we have to rate because of fucking framer trills.

Just wondering, Anyone else think this would be the wisest choice?

bballa48 01-10-2013 07:03 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambdadelta (Post 3833587)
Hey, was going to type this yesterday but shit came up.

Proposal: Why not make Crowdpleaser v1 the Skill token and then make Crowdpleaser v2 the song to unlock it on? It would wipe Crowdpleaser from the level ranks and it would be one less Bullshit song we have to rate because of fucking framer trills.

Just wondering, Anyone else think this would be the wisest choice?

Agreed.

DossarLX ODI 01-10-2013 08:50 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel (Post 3831812)
difficulty to AAA

I'll admit cutting out a lot of your post here is inappropriate, but I feel like difficulty to AAA is taken way too far. Skeletor would be rated much higher for me since I have to do the long 32nd rolls with raw speed if this was the case, for instance.

On ITG, a file shouldn't be rated lower if it's easier to AAA/FA. I care about passing. Connecting to FFR, a player who can't even play through a file properly is not going to care about AAAing the file. They would just want to hit it without taking a huge hit on their score while at the same time getting an FC.

ssbmchamp 01-10-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
I actually really like death piano. Sure I can't do well on it but despite "bad patterns," which is entirely an opinion statement, I think the file is pretty well done and flows well. Over half the songs in the high 80's and low 90's sound like someone's having a high speed pots and pans fight....I don't even consider it music for that matter. Same with RATO...that's just a bunch of random noises. At least death piano is a song with some melody. Some notes may be excessive but they still fit the song. Most piano songs tend to be hard but at least they sound cool. La Campanella is an amazing song/file too. I'd rather have more songs like that than these stupid random synthesizers or whatever it may be making these shitty ass noises some of you people call songs.

popsicle_3000 01-11-2013 01:29 AM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
very good idea for CP
+1

TC_Halogen 01-11-2013 01:37 AM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI (Post 3833694)
On ITG, a file shouldn't be rated lower if it's easier to AAA/FA. I care about passing. Connecting to FFR, a player who can't even play through a file properly is not going to care about AAAing the file. They would just want to hit it without taking a huge hit on their score while at the same time getting an FC.

As a reference, pattern difficulty/rhythmic structure does have a tendency to tilt files slightly upward or downward, but no more than a point (until you hit 17+, where 220 runs changing face lightly is a high 16 and 220 runs constantly turning is a mid-high 18). A bit more realistic of an example occurs in some custom files on ITG where extremely complicated rhythms cause a difficulty go up (Go *60* Go, where if you ignore the 64th swing, it's very clearly an 11 to pass and not the 12 that it really is), or incredibly simplistic patterns cause it to go down (Walking on Fire, which has the density of most 11s but is rated a 10).

d4u7211 01-11-2013 06:50 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Random Q... is

65-74 FMO
75-100 FGO

correct? fix it for me if it isn't i don't want to say i got an FMO AAA if its a 65 if FMO is like 66+

Poison- 01-11-2013 06:57 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by d4u7211 (Post 3834422)
Random Q... is

65-74 FMO
75-100 FGO

correct? fix it for me if it isn't i don't want to say i got an FMO AAA if its a 65 if FMO is like 66+

66-77 is "FMO"
I guess 78+ is "FGO"

SK8R43 01-11-2013 07:22 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
65-77 is TECHNICALLY FMO and 78+ is FGO lol

d4u7211 01-11-2013 07:24 PM

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum
 
Ahh...shit lol, I think I'll push myself and say 66 is FMO (besides i dont have any 65 AAA's lol)


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