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PlaceboFX 01-21-2009 06:53 PM

Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I was there and let me tell you, it was a horrible thing to listen to. I was actually embarrassed and could not even look at the expression on his face as he made his way to his seat. People were laughing, pointing, mocking, etc. It was like a sideshow. I enjoyed every moment of this event until this happened and tried my best to forget it afterwards.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_159507.html

What do you think?

Xandertrax 01-21-2009 06:56 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I would've done it if I were there. Look at the state of our country right now. Sure, some of it was inevitable, but the past 8 years have not exactly helped.

Adamaja456 01-21-2009 06:58 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
maybe if he had done a better job, people wouldn't boo him.

foilman8805 01-21-2009 07:00 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I think the booing was pretty ridiculous and uncalled for. Inauguration day was about Obama becoming president, not Bush leaving the presidency; however, it seems millions of people would have us think the opposite.

Who is to say that the same **** wouldn't have happened if Gore or Kerry were ever elected in his stead? I seriously wonder how people can just assume that the country would be better if Bush was never elected. They have no clue, and booing him doesn't fix or change anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamaja456 (Post 2958704)
maybe if he had done a better job, people wouldn't boo him.

Maybe if more than half of the American public didn't vote for him twice in 8 years, he would never have to be booed. So maybe we should boo everyone who voted for him in 2000 and 2004 instead.

Mr. Bob 01-21-2009 07:10 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
i completely agree with foilman

i feel bad for bush. being the president is the most technical occupation in the entire nation imo

it's as if people think that EVERYTHING bad in the country is directly the president's fault; it isn't :P

Zybanthia 01-21-2009 07:10 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Whether the President screwed up or not, taking part in spreading that sort of negativity, especially on a day that calls for much respect for America's leaders, only says negative things about you.

ii GuRu 01-21-2009 07:15 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
hahahah i hate that douchebag. god damn im so glad he is out. seriously our country would have been a pile of **** if he was still in office. Obama will do great things for our country

coraleaterlinda 01-21-2009 07:18 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
i think that was wrong. they should not have done that, it makes them look really immature. it was supposed to be a celebration.

Cloud0005 01-21-2009 07:18 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ii GuRu (Post 2958740)
hahahah i hate that douchebag. god damn im so glad he is out. seriously our country would have been a pile of **** if he was still in office. Obama will do great things for our country

Did you read Mr.Bob's post?

I personally don't like Bush but either way, it's the most stressful job you could have. Give him a break.

ZC_Wolfy 01-21-2009 07:22 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
That's incredibly immature. I don't see why anyone in their right minds would do something like that.

MrRubix 01-21-2009 07:28 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I agree, very tacky and uncalled for

funmonkey54 01-21-2009 07:28 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
The united states government has a system of checks and balances in act. The president, does not make the entire decision. If you are to boo him out, then why are you not booing all of the political figures?

wickedawesomeful 01-21-2009 07:31 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
What, are you guys worried about hurting the little presidents feelings?

****, he's going to go back to his huge-ass house on his huge-ass ranch in Texas and forget about it. Shut up.

Zybanthia 01-21-2009 07:31 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
That's really not the point.

Cloud0005 01-21-2009 07:33 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedawesomeful (Post 2958758)
What, are you guys worried about hurting the little presidents feelings?

****, he's going to go back to his huge-ass house on his huge-ass ranch in Texas and forget about it. Shut up.

Someone wanted McCain to win.

wickedawesomeful 01-21-2009 07:33 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud0005 (Post 2958760)
Someone wanted McCain to win.

Really?

Who?

MrRubix 01-21-2009 07:39 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I feel like booing out the ex-President at such a huge ceremony is really disrespectful. He may go back to a big house on a big house, but he'll go down in the history books as a very unpopular man whose intelligence and decision-making abilities were constantly questioned. He'll be known as an ineffective President, where some of the worst financial disasters/foreign relation deteriorations occurred during his Presidency. That seems to be pretty bad punishment, in my eyes.

The least people could do is respect the fact that, horrible President or not, no one man has power of everything. There are many natural functions to the business cycle that are simply beyond Presidential control. There are many players in the game of our economy, and we can't just pin it all on the leader. I'm not saying his decisions were the best either -- he certainly wasted a lot of resources and made very poor foreign policy decisions. But booing him like that is just poor form and really immature.

PlaceboFX 01-21-2009 07:41 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
It isn't so much how Bush feels right now (although I can't imagine what it must feel like to be hated by the entire planet), but how the world perceives our behavior right now. If this is a time for change, then we must learn to change our behavior and as Obama mentioned, take responsibility for our actions. The booing made us look like imbeciles. Silence would have spoken volumes louder than booing, and we would have come out looking better for it.

musicdemon 01-21-2009 07:44 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Those people have no respect. Since Obama's been in the spotlight, it's almost as if his supporters were one "team" and those who back our president were another. They act like they are the Red Sox jeering at the Yankees! This man served our country for 8 years, and no matter what you think of him, at least show him some common courtesy.

MrRubix 01-21-2009 07:45 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I don't agree with all of Obama's decisions, but I really feel that he's taking some bold steps in the right direction. His ability to break down important priorities in a modular way is something I've honestly been waiting for in a President -- his desire to go through and re-optimize everything is ambitious, but I feel like it's a necessary evil at this point. We need to re-establish trust in our government, and I hope that Obama holds to his word when he made his promise to make the problemsolving strategies more open so that the people know what's going on, instead of this haze of misaligned notions and unclear priorities that pretty much defined the Bush Presidency.

StringsnKeys 01-21-2009 09:02 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Silence would have spoken louder.

arrekusuof93 01-21-2009 09:20 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
they voted for him
they're booing themselves

footbull3196 01-21-2009 09:41 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Bob (Post 2958728)
i feel bad for bush. being the president is the most technical occupation in the entire nation imo

I know, right? XD

http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._given_nations

MooMoo_Cowfreak 01-21-2009 09:44 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
You know, I totally agree with foil. Bush may have been bad, but he tried.

Izzy 01-21-2009 10:24 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Racism ended this week.

Grandiagod 01-21-2009 10:25 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Yeah that free speech thing can be a bummer

Izzy 01-21-2009 10:27 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
btw, i read the title as bush booing obama at the inauguration.

stretchypanda 01-21-2009 10:28 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
So, today I learned that the grocery store in the Bushes' new neighborhood gives a discount if you've ever been the President.

GG_Guru 01-21-2009 10:31 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Lmao! They made bush look like a little b*tch.

gnr61 01-21-2009 10:34 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Lmao!

ps

bitch

foilman8805 01-21-2009 10:41 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GG_Guru (Post 2958961)
Lmao! They made bush look like a little b*tch.

Lmao! Censoring 'bitch' makes you look like a little bitch.

Sh4d0wD3v1L 01-22-2009 12:13 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
When I saw him throw out the first pitch at the National's game and he got booed, I laughed. This wasn't as funny. I don't like him in any way shape or form, and I won't miss him, but it does suck to take that job and then get booed by millions of people, probably all of which have no idea how difficult it is.

Oh well, GObama.

ieatyourlvllol 01-22-2009 02:16 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Nobody enters a presidency expecting to exit with a sullied track record. The President makes decisions that he believes will best benefit the nation as a whole. Whether or not his choices succeed depends much on factors outside his immediate influence. The President's job, then, is to manipulate odds, not to dictate outcomes. Though the reaction at the inauguration may have served to clearly demonstrate the widespread dissent with the policies of the last two terms, it also served to display the threshold for public composure, which in its current state falls far below standards that any reasonable individual would set. It seems that many constituents are ready to receive but not to give, almost as if it's the President's tacit duty to be a wellspring of prosperity. Nonetheless, risk and gain coexist; you can't have one without the other. Unfortunately, not enough people seem to recognize this fact, and what would have otherwise been a joyous occasion was tarnished by a smear of ill-bred contempt.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 02:23 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ieatyourlvllol (Post 2959104)
it also served to display the threshold for public composure, which in its current state falls far below standards that any reasonable individual would set.

Yes, booing is unreasonable. Next thing you know people will start criticizing him publicly!

Jesus **** man it's not like they pelted him with shoes. Publicly and nonviolently expressing dissatisfaction with the President is reasonable discourse. Is it "classy"? Maybe not. But it's definitely not unreasonable or unexpected for a guy with the lowest public opinion polls since Nixon.

ieatyourlvllol 01-22-2009 02:31 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I'm not exactly saying it was unreasonable, but that it was unnecessary. The former President doesn't need a reminder. He's well aware of public opinion, and rubbing it in isn't going to change any of the decisions he made. In any case, it's more about being tolerant than being classy.

Afrobean 01-22-2009 03:59 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959109)
Yes, booing is unreasonable. Next thing you know people will start criticizing him publicly!

Jesus **** man it's not like they pelted him with shoes. Publicly and nonviolently expressing dissatisfaction with the President is reasonable discourse. Is it "classy"? Maybe not. But it's definitely not unreasonable or unexpected for a guy with the lowest public opinion polls since Nixon.

The problem with that idea is that the point of Bush being there wasn't a "Bush leaving office" ceremony. It was a "Obama sworn in" ceremony. Their focus shouldn't have been so negative... in fact, they should have been expressing glee at the idea of him being out of office if they hate him so much.

All things aside, yes, freedom to express one's self is a great thing, but that doesn't mean one still cannot be prone to expressing one's self immaturely. I don't think anyone is saying that they shouldn't be free to do what they did, just that they should have known better than to do what they did.

Squeek 01-22-2009 06:05 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrobean (Post 2959141)
The problem with that idea is that the point of Bush being there wasn't a "Bush leaving office" ceremony. It was a "Obama sworn in" ceremony. Their focus shouldn't have been so negative... in fact, they should have been expressing glee at the idea of him being out of office if they hate him so much.

All things aside, yes, freedom to express one's self is a great thing, but that doesn't mean one still cannot be prone to expressing one's self immaturely. I don't think anyone is saying that they shouldn't be free to do what they did, just that they should have known better than to do what they did.

Ok, then why was Bush leaving office during Obama's "sworn in" ceremony? Have him leave office before the Inauguration. Simple.

Seriously, they knew this would happen. Who voted for Obama? Mostly Democrats. Who attended the inauguration? Mostly Democrats. Who hates Bush the most? Democrats. Actually, non-Republicans.

Wow, I think I just blew my mind.

Sometimes I wish I were Republican so I could see why people like a president who managed to destroy the entire world in just eight years.

Adamaja456 01-22-2009 08:40 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by foilman8805 (Post 2958708)
Maybe if more than half of the American public didn't vote for him twice in 8 years, he would never have to be booed. So maybe we should boo everyone who voted for him in 2000 and 2004 instead.

in 2000, only about 17.9% of the American public voted for Bush
in 2004, only about 20.6% of the American public voted for Bush

in 2008, only about 23.2% of the American public voted for Obama
I'm not seeing more than half in these numbers...

figures are just estimates. 2000 popular vote divided by 2000 census.
2004 and 2008 percentages are from popular vote divided by 300 million people. so of course the numbers arn't accurate but they are somewhat close.

just because a president won the election, it doesn't mean more than half the american people voted for him. Half the population didn't/cant vote.


ps someone flame me pleeasseeee :)

bluguerrilla 01-22-2009 08:56 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Nitpicking :-)

I'm pretty sure everyone meant half of the people that voted.

foilman8805 01-22-2009 10:37 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamaja456 (Post 2959181)
in 2000, only about 17.9% of the American public voted for Bush
in 2004, only about 20.6% of the American public voted for Bush

in 2008, only about 23.2% of the American public voted for Obama
I'm not seeing more than half in these numbers...

figures are just estimates. 2000 popular vote divided by 2000 census.
2004 and 2008 percentages are from popular vote divided by 300 million people. so of course the numbers arn't accurate but they are somewhat close.

just because a president won the election, it doesn't mean more than half the american people voted for him. Half the population didn't/cant vote.


ps someone flame me pleeasseeee :)

Not gonna flame, but we both made a mistake here. I misused 'American public' in my first post and you took my mistake as such and ran away with it in a really literal sense.

I meant to say American eligible voters which would change your statistics drastically. I thought I was implying that I wasn't talking about everyone under 18 who can't vote, and those that abstained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluguerrilla (Post 2959185)
Nitpicking :-)

I'm pretty sure everyone meant half of the people that voted.

Oh hey, blu. =)

OrganisM 01-22-2009 10:47 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek (Post 2959157)
Sometimes I wish I were Republican so I could see why people like a president who managed to destroy the entire world in just eight years.

Sorry Squeek, I credit you as too intelligent to sink to that level. You'll just have to accept your natural inability to think like a moron.

I personally think he should have been thrown out of office, but hey, we'll just conveniently gloss over everything.

I like how it was like "oh god we got attacked, let's do whatever the government says and give away all our liberties, despite our cries in the name of freedom" and then it was like "yes, kill those ****ing negro arab fags, they did it all" then it was "wait why are we not winning a war against an ideal?" and then it was "oh wait that was a bad idea" and that turned into "what *** would think of getting into a war like that? wow, crazy people these days" and now, we wonder how we just, as if by magic, just happened to stumble into all this mess by accident. It took 8 years of conscious decisions. Nobody spun the bottle, rolled the dice, or picked from a hat. Everybody is accountable, and nobody is innocent. Any time we accept what has been handed down from the government, we are complicit in what arises. But won't worry, we'll find a way to screw up again and conveniently make excuses for everything.

kmay 01-22-2009 10:50 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
ok people no one how WE elected deserves to get booed off the stage. you guys are pathetic. I will laugh at your face when obama F*CKS up the country even more.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 11:08 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959230)
ok people no one how WE elected deserves to get booed off the stage. you guys are pathetic. I will laugh at your face when obama F*CKS up the country even more.

WE?

Who's this WE?

I didn't vote for Bush. I would have have voted against him if I'd had the chance.

I wish you could be banned from this forum on the grounds of being a retard.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 11:37 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Thaor are you really Thaor

kmay 01-22-2009 11:50 AM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959244)
WE?

Who's this WE?

I didn't vote for Bush. I would have have voted against him if I'd had the chance.

I wish you could be banned from this forum on the grounds of being a retard.

WE as a country voted on Bush.

How would you feel if you got a bad grade on your report card and everyone booed you because you got a bad grade.

He may have done some bad things but being President is a huge deal and a lot of pressure is put on him to make the right choice. If Bush pleased one side of the people then he wouldn't please another side. Every decision he makes only pleases one side of America, the left or the right. If we didn't go to war in Iraq who knows what could be happening right now. We could be thriving and not it this "recession" or we could be being bomb left and right. You need to think about what COULD happen.
Don't call me retarded for having different political views then you. Especially because i can see both sides of it while your sitting over there completely oblivious to the consequences that could happen if we go the other way. I wish you could be banned from this forum for being ignorant.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 12:19 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Presidents are often made out to be scapegoats during recessions.

kmay 01-22-2009 12:21 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
the president has nothing to do with the economy. Its not controlled by the government, im pretty sure everyone here should know that. what i saying is that the war we are in is contributing to the recession

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 12:48 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959267)
WE as a country voted on Bush.

How would you feel if you got a bad grade on your report card and everyone booed you because you got a bad grade.

He may have done some bad things but being President is a huge deal and a lot of pressure is put on him to make the right choice. If Bush pleased one side of the people then he wouldn't please another side. Every decision he makes only pleases one side of America, the left or the right.

By Right or left side you must mean 27% of America vs 73% because I believe that was his recent poll numbers.

Quote:

If we didn't go to war in Iraq who knows what could be happening right now. We could be thriving and not it this "recession" or we could be being bomb left and right. You need to think about what COULD happen.
Yes the possible outcomes of not going to war against a sovereign country on false pretenses are so vague and unpredictable.

Quote:

Don't call me retarded for having different political views then you. Especially because i can see both sides of it while your sitting over there completely oblivious to the consequences that could happen if we go the other way.
Understanding that things could have positive or negative consequences is hardly "seeing both sides" of an issue. In fact you display a lack of understanding of "both sides" by dividing all issues down the middle into a "left or right" category when in reality most issues have more than two different supporting or dissenting opinions.

Quote:

wish you could be banned from this forum for being ignorant.
Don't wish too hard, I'm sure someone here would miss you.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 12:50 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959287)
the president has nothing to do with the economy. Its not controlled by the government, im pretty sure everyone here should know that. what i saying is that the war we are in is contributing to the recession

What, no. The recession was caused by the subprime mortgage fiasco. Which could have been prevented with more government regulatory oversight.

If you don't even know why the recession exists then you're hardly qualified to talk about it.

kmay 01-22-2009 12:58 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I know what how and why it was caused, im trying to support expres bush just a little. We wouldn't be in such a state of bankruptcy if we didnt have to spend so much money over seas for the war.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 01:01 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrfPMa3lONU

This is worth watching, regardless of what you may think of O'Reilly.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 01:02 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959267)
WE as a country voted on Bush.

I did not have a say in the outcome, so that "we" is pointless.

Quote:

How would you feel if you got a bad grade on your report card and everyone booed you because you got a bad grade.
If the lives of 300 million people hinged on it, I'd feel as if I should have taken better responsibility.

Quote:

He may have done some bad things but being President is a huge deal and a lot of pressure is put on him to make the right choice.
Yeah, welcome to being president. If you can't handle it, you should have the good conscience and common sense not to take the job. Are you seriously making excuses for him saying "oh, the job's hard, poor Georgie"?

Quote:

If Bush pleased one side of the people then he wouldn't please another side. Every decision he makes only pleases one side of America, the left or the right.
It's not about pleasing whatever side, it's about doing the right thing.

Quote:

If we didn't go to war in Iraq who knows what could be happening right now. We could be thriving and not it this "recession" or we could be being bomb left and right.
Wow, what terrible conjecture based on thin air. It amazes me what passes for fact. Note that 9/11 was a single attack, and we didn't go to war after the WTC had already been twice attacked. Also note that the attack was financed by Saudis, and not one single member of the attack was Iraqi. Iraq has never attacked us, and at one point was even our ally. Our justification was that they had WMD's. Where are those WMD's, and what is the connection to the 9/11 terrorist attack? There is absolutely none, and they've gone out and admitted it. Yet people still use this garbage as justification for the slaughter of thousands of innocent people, the invasion and disrespect of another country, world outrage, and the deaths of many of our troops. You think the invasion of Iraq will stop the Saudis from attacking the US? And what kind of offensive would they launch? We've been in a stalemate for years now. There will be no serious attack simply because there cannot be without the world's end.

Quote:

You need to think about what COULD happen.
Using rational conclusions based on previous trends and on reasonable possibilities, I've thought about what COULD happen. What COULD'VE happened is that the US could've respected the rest of the world and instead searched only Afghanistan for the man who was to blame. The problem is that certain members of the Saudis were involved, and they own approximately 6 to 7% of this country. All that matters is what's in our pockets.

Quote:

Don't call me retarded for having different political views then you.
I'm calling you stupid for having nothing to substantiate your views, and for regurgitating garbage political propaganda. There's a difference.

Quote:

Especially because i can see both sides of it while your sitting over there completely oblivious to the consequences that could happen if we go the other way. I wish you could be banned from this forum for being ignorant.
Obviously you don't see "both sides of it". You've been brainwashed and you accept what the conservatives say without valid reason behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959287)
the president has nothing to do with the economy. Its not controlled by the government, im pretty sure everyone here should know that. what i saying is that the war we are in is contributing to the recession

Uhh, think again. The government, whether or not this is supposedly a laissez-faire type of thing, has a large role in the economy. The government's decision to spend over 500 billiion dollars in taxpayer money has severely affected the economy. Much of the economy hinges on government contracts. Unless you're saying that those defense contractors and other companies like Blackwater and Halliburton are not part of the economy. The president heads the executive branch of the government, and the government has a huge impact on the economy. Case in point: The bailout package? That's government money. Guess what the government is buying? Companies that are failing. They're literally taking stock in failed companies. Huh, funny how this supposed lack of government involvement has nothing to do with the economy.

Yeah, the war we are in, which we started, which was started by the Bush administration, is contributing to the recession. Notice how the rest of the world is doing far better than we are? It's true. We have been surpassed by a number of countries in terms of prosperity and strength of economy, and we're actually dragging down the world economy quite a bit.

Scapegoat? I wouldn't say so. The president has more power than we give credit for, and so does his administration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRubix (Post 2959310)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrfPMa3lONU

This is worth watching, regardless of what you may think of O'Reilly.

Sorry, I can't take him seriously. He brings people on his show and doesn't have the common respect to bring out both sides of the argument and have a discussion. He yells and points fingers and allows for no dialogue. He's a witch going on a witch hunt. The fact that the guy has a place on a major news network is an embarrassment to journalism, though sadly I think there's not been much to be said about the media for decades. Quality reporting with honesty involved has been long gone, if it ever did exist outside of principle.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:02 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959309)
I know what how and why it was caused, im trying to support expres bush just a little. We wouldn't be in such a state of bankruptcy if we didnt have to spend so much money over seas for the war.

You're thinking of two different things. There's the recession, which is the collapse of the economy versus the National deficit which is how much money the US government is in debt.

They deficit affects the economy slightly through consumer confidence but it's completely different and the war in Iraq/national deficit in no way caused the recession.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:06 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959311)
Yeah, the war we are in, which we started, which was started by the Bush administration, is contributing to the recession. Notice how the rest of the world is doing far better than we are?

No. I haven't. Please direct me to the evidence that the European and Asian markets have not crashed because pesky things like "facts" seem to be disagreeing with you.

kmay 01-22-2009 01:11 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
haha rubix that was extremely entertaining.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 01:16 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959314)
No. I haven't. Please direct me to the evidence that the European and Asian markets have not crashed because pesky things like "facts" seem to be disagreeing with you.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=66&c=xx&l=en

Check out world GDP growth average. Then check out Russia. And China. And India, as well. Check out the UK. Look at other countries. Then look at the US. There's one good example.

Looks like those pesky facts are on my side.

ledwix 01-22-2009 01:16 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MooMoo_Cowfreak (Post 2958898)
You know, I totally agree with foil. Bush may have been bad, but he tried.

Well, if pleading ignorance is justified at the highest office in the land, then I suppose you're right; he tried. But this type of behavior should not be deemed acceptable at this level of power. Now what do I mean by pleading ignorance. When recently asked what he thought his biggest failures were (I believe it was his final press conference), he mentioned the display of a "Mission Accomplished" sign in 2003 and how he should have conveyed a different message than that. He also mentioned how he did not physically land his plane in New Orleans immediately after the major hurricane. I argue that these were "political" mistakes and not ACTUAL mistakes, because that which concerns the lives of everyday Americans is that which should be the priority of a president. The actual errors were not the lack of a photo op for publicity but the way in which he handled and perpetuated actual problems, such as Hurricane Katrina or 9/11. This is good evidence that he was so concerned with the politics of the situation that the actual subject matter sometimes flew over his head, which leads me to believe he is willingly clueless

As for the actual booing, I found it a little unnecessary, and I think if I were there I would have either remained silent or clapped for Bush's farewell as a sort of ceremonial respect. After all, the whole thing is a ceremonial affair; raising a right hand doesn't make a statement any more sincere than without the hand raised, etc.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:28 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959316)
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=66&c=xx&l=en

Check out world GDP growth average. Then check out Russia. And China. And India, as well. Check out the UK. Look at other countries. Then look at the US. There's one good example.

Looks like those pesky facts are on my side.

Oh hey look, the peak for the US GDP growth was in 2005, two years after the war had started. Makes sense that the iraq war caused the recession. HURF


Right... in 2005 there was a steady decline in GDP growth. Now considering the recession we're in burst late September in America, it doesn't make sense to look at GDP growth loss for the past half decade to determine if other markets besides the United States are affected by the current subprime mortgage loan collapse.

In fact, lets look at the statistics for Dow Jones STOXX (european dow jones) for the last few months.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=SXXP%3AIND

Sorry, your facts, while true. Are irrelevant (and contradict) your point that somehow the deficit in Iraq lead to subprime mortgage defaults in America.

operationstrawbarry 01-22-2009 01:31 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
The booing was rediculous and uncalled for. But I believe at this time, Bush doesn't even care about the booing since hes heard it enough. So its just the audience booing themselves since its them that elected him for the second term. You can't really blame bush for winning a second time. Blame you'reself.

Im not going to say that hes a bad president or one that should be impeached, nor am I going to say that or believe it. He tried his best and that all a person can give. Outcome or not, he was president for the second term so in a sense, as an outcome, we did elect him. It just sux that things turning out this way. Lets just put this conversation aside and see what the new president will do.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 01:37 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959322)
Oh hey look, the peak for the US GDP growth was in 2005, two years after the war had started. Makes sense that the iraq war caused the recession. HURF


Right... in 2005 there was a steady decline in GDP growthy. Now considering the recession we're in burst late September in America, it doesn't make sense to look at GDP growth loss for the past half decade to determine if other markets besides the United States are affected by the current subprime mortgage loan collapse.

In fact, lets look at the statistics for Dow Jones STOXX (european dow jones) for the last few months.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=SXXP%3AIND

Sorry, your facts, while true. Are irrelevant (and contradict) your point that somehow the deficit in Iraq lead to subprime mortgage defaults in America.

I was under the impression that the mortgage problem was partially caused by a lot of inadvisable loans to those who weren't qualified, and also that the decision to do so had a lot to do with there being far less qualified people to buy a home, which was caused by the poor economy for which the Iraq was partly to blame. I honestly didn't realize that these aren't related. And perhaps I should have clarified that I'm speaking more to the general state of the economy than the current mortgage problem in the US. You asked me for proof that the rest of the world is doing better than we are, on the whole, and I personally think GDP growth rates are a good measure for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by operationstrawbarry (Post 2959328)
Im not going to say that hes a bad president or one that should be impeached, nor am I going to say that or believe it. He tried his best and that all a person can give. Outcome or not, he was president for the second term so in a sense, as an outcome, we did elect him. It just sux that things turning out this way. Lets just put this conversation aside and see what the new president will do.

Oh come on, you're really justifying the president's actions and those of his administration with "well, shit happens"?

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:40 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959334)
I was under the impression that the mortgage problem was partially caused by a lot of inadvisable loans to those who weren't qualified, and also that the decision to do so had a lot to do with there being far less qualified people to buy a home, which was caused by the poor economy for which the Iraq was partly to blame. I honestly didn't realize that these aren't related.

I want to figure out how Iraq tanked the economy considering GDP growth peaked during the midst of the war

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:43 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959334)
And perhaps I should have clarified that I'm speaking more to the general state of the economy than the current mortgage problem in the US.

Quote:

Yeah, the war we are in, which we started, which was started by the Bush administration, is contributing to the recession.
So when you said "the recession" you didn't mean the current recession which everyone is talking about and exploded in September when the stock market dropped thousands of points but rather the slight decline in GDP growth over 4 years that no one was talking about.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 01:52 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959337)
So when you said "the recession" you didn't mean the current recession which everyone is talking about and exploded in September when the stock market dropped thousands of points but rather the slight decline in GDP growth over 4 years that no one was talking about.

As far as I understand it, kmay and I were talking about the general economic decline. Once again, look at the decline in GDP growth vs. world growth, and then individual countries. The GDP growth percentage worldwide is higher than the US. That's all I was saying with those statistics, because that's what you were asking me about.

And also, are we taking into account the national debt incurred by the war?

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 01:55 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
A drop in growth is not a recession. A recession is when something recedes.

That's like saying the flooded river is receding because it's only rising at 2 inches per hour compared to a foot an hour yesterday.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 01:58 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959348)
A drop in growth is not a recession. A recession is when something recedes.

That's like saying the flooded river is receding because it's only rising at 2 inches per hour compared to a foot an hour yesterday.

Uhh,

recede: 2: to grow less or smaller : diminish , decrease <a receding deficit>

drop: a decline in quantity or quality

Decline: 6: to become less in amount

....what the **** are we talking about here? I thought a recession was a drop in GDP for two quarters or more.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 02:01 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959350)
....what the **** are we talking about here? I thought a recession was a drop in GDP for two quarters or more.

GDP growth is not GDP.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 02:03 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
It's just that you'd expect a leader -- the "main" representative of our country, to be fit for many things. When your leader stumbles over his own words, makes decisions with unclear motives, takes off many vacation days, disrupts relations with other countries, and does all this during a time when things are arguably falling apart, of course people are going to be upset, and of course people are going to question leadership ability.

Perhaps Bush tried his best -- but I don't think he was a wise decision-maker or leader. Effort and intent, as people (hopefully) realize with maturity, does not automatically absolve someone of blame, or shift responsibility elsewhere when things go awry. As Obama has stated, a large problem with our country today derives from accountability and responsibility. People need to be responsible for their actions, and we need to make more intelligent decisions, and those decisions need to be made with a clear, open intent. Without a proper accountability system, we run into all sorts of issues... ohi subprimez.

EDIT: Also, I don't know wtf you guys are debating, but the Iraq war drain is only one problematic source. The subprime issue is something else entirely, and is derived from systemic problems within the housing market and banking systems.

Another EDIT: While I think O'Reilly is a flaming douchebag, Barney Frank screwed up. Hard. Oh so very hard. We all knew, a few years ago, that there was a housing bubble, and we knew that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were just feeding the fires. Frank tried to make it look like they weren't facing any sort of financial meltdowns, and continued to push for extending loans to those with horrible credit histories, or those who were clearly too poor to be able to pay anything back effectively. Couple that with the lowered capital requirements for FM&FM that brought on higher risk (and was abused to high heaven), and you've got a pretty unstable thing going for you. Only when things started spiraling out of control did Frank try to save face. While he is not solely responsible for the mess, he is a huge contributor to it. O'Reilly did the right thing by ripping this guy apart on his show. I feel like he could have done a more effective job by citing a lot more facts, but Frank really needed to get his ass kicked.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 02:03 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
So you're saying a drop in growth is not going to cause a drop in the overall total vs. if the drop in growth didn't happen?

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 02:09 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959356)
So you're saying a drop in growth is not going to cause a drop in the overall total vs. if the drop in growth didn't happen?

... er yes?

A boy grows 3 inches a year for 4 years. One year he grows 1 inch. Does he get shorter? No, his height has not receded. He is simply growing more slowly.

Is this good for an economy? No, growth is a good thing (as long as it's based on legitimate gains), but a slowing of growth is NOT a recession.

I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 02:12 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
You just got first-derivative-pwnt, sir

kmay 01-22-2009 02:12 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRubix (Post 2959355)
It's just that you'd expect a leader -- the "main" representative of our country, to be fit for many things. When your leader stumbles over his own words, makes decisions with unclear motives, takes off many vacation days, disrupts relations with other countries, and does all this during a time when things are arguably falling apart, of course people are going to be upset, and of course people are going to question leadership ability.

i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know. Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?

OrganisM 01-22-2009 02:12 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959362)
... er yes?

A boy grows 3 inches a year for 4 years. One year he grows 1 inch. Does he get shorter? No, his height has not receded. He is simply growing more slowly.

Is this good for an economy? No, growth is a good thing (as long as it's based on legitimate gains), but a slowing of growth is NOT a recession.

I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

I'm not debating that the boy won't become shorter, I'm saying that he's shorter than he would have been had the rate of growth continued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959362)
I really thought people would know what a recession is. I guess this is why everyone in America sucks at finances.

Well, misappropriation of terms is not necessarily the same thing as having no concept of cause and effect in the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959364)
i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know.

Wait, Bush didn't lie or tell half-truths?

Quote:

Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?
No, that's an entirely different issue, but good try. I misused terms and now I'm taking the heat for it.

MrRubix 01-22-2009 02:14 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmay (Post 2959364)
i would rather have a person who stumbles over there words, bush, then a person who is such a good public speaker that he can lie through his teeth and we wouldn't know. Also i have to go with organism on this one. The GDP is "receding" or whatever, i guess a better use of words could have helped, but the word is used correctly. I think he is trying to say that the recession that happened is September could have been seen from a mile away. A lot of people didn't pay their taxes and couldn't pay there taxes because of inflation. Now that the cost of living is to extravagant the so called "middle class" is dwindling away and soon we will be living in a country with only an upper and lower class.
is that what you are saying organism?

We don't know yet how Obama will perform as a President -- he just started. I'd prefer a well-spoken President who makes sound decisions over a socially retarded President who makes poor decisions, to be sure. I'd even settle for a socially retarded President who makes good decisions. But I think an effective leader needs to be good at both. You need to be a good communicator, which Bush was not.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 02:16 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrganisM (Post 2959366)
I'm not debating that the boy won't become shorter, I'm saying that he's shorter than he would have been had the rate of growth continued.

Good, then you agree that a slow in growth is not a recession of the GDP but rather simply something not getting as big as it was previously. And definitely not what ANYONE was talking about.

Wikipedia:
Quote:

In economics, the term recession generally describes the reduction of a country's gross domestic product (GDP) for at least two quarters.[1][2] The usual dictionary definition is "a period of reduced economic activity", a business cycle contraction.[3][4]
A reduction in SIZE, not a reduction of GROWTH. Say "my bad" and move on please. This is getting annoying.

kmay 01-22-2009 02:18 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
I'm with you there rubix, but im saying that obama could just be cool to the public, lie, and basically feed us **** and we wouldn't know what is going on in our country till it starts to fall apart. I know today is what his 2nd full day as president he couldn't have done anything to mess up yet.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 02:19 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2959374)
Good, then you agree that a slow in growth is not a recession of the GDP but rather simply something not getting as big as it was previously. And definitely not what ANYONE was talking about.

Wikipedia:


A reduction in SIZE, not a reduction of GROWTH. Say "my bad" and move on please. This is getting annoying.

Already did say "my bad". I was confused over semantics and so instead of being standoffish about it, I asked you what you meant. Didn't realize that was a crime.

Grandiagod 01-22-2009 02:20 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
hahahahahaha i win again hahaha

OrganisM 01-22-2009 02:22 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
whee...

korny 01-22-2009 02:23 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
What pieces of ****.

OrganisM 01-22-2009 02:26 PM

Re: Bush Booed at Inauguration...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by korny (Post 2959384)
What pieces of ****.

who?


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