2024 TWG Rules Thread
 

All new players must at least read the tl;dr version of the rules located here before playing in their first game.

Please do not post in a game that you have not signed up for.

Rules


1) A player may never under any circumstances, edit or delete a post. This includes fixing typos or other mistakes/omissions. The only time a post may ever be deleted is if the host of the game specifically asks a forum mod to delete a particular post or posts.

1a) In games with Out of Thread Communications (OOTC), messages in any group chat or private messages/communications/etc between two or more players, players may in no way delete, edit or otherwise alter their messages similar to the above rule regarding editing/deletion of posts.

2) A player may not post their role PM, in part or in full, or any other communication they may have had with the host. Threatening to post your PM is not allowed. A player may not make reference to any communication they may have had with the host. You may not post, in part or in full, any part of any private conversation you may have had (wolfchat or masonchat). All of the above refers to quoting directly using the forum feature, posting a screenshot or screenshots, attempting to determine alignments by asking someone how their PM was worded, etc.

2a) Players ARE however, allowed to post private conversations with other players, so long as the rules of the game permit this (In game where Out of Thread communication is legal). It is also legal to produce fake conversations.

3) Dead players are considered out of the game once they are dead (exception, games with revivals). Once dead, including games with revivals, dead players may not talk with living players about the game.

4) A player may not create a/any fake account(s) on FFR in order to impersonate other players or the host. Under no circumstances is impersonating the host allowed. If a player is playing on an alternate account, they must say who they are an alternate account of during signups.

4a) Players may not contact other players "anonymously" using alternate accounts.

4b) Two or more players may not play using the same account.

4c) Once a player has replaced out of a game, they may not be replaced back in, even into their previous slot.

5) In cases where a player is banned from FFR, so long as the ban is not permanent, it is up to the host if the player is permitted to post on an alternate account, if the player should be replaced or if the player should be modkilled. If a player is allowed to continue playing while serving their ban, certain restrictions apply. They must post using an alternate account in the TWG forum only, and posting on an alternate account outside of the TWG forum while banned is considered ban evasion.

5a) In games with OOTC, if a player has been temporarily banned from FFR, all communication with that player must cease immediately until the game host has made a decision regarding whether or not the banned player may continue posting.

5b) Should a player be permanently banned, it is up to the game host whether or not to replace the player or modkill them.

6) It is up to the host how role actions (wolfings, seerings, saves) are to be delivered to the host. Some may only take actions through FFR PM, and some may take them through other means.

6a) Voting for the lynch must be done in the thread, with no exceptions.

7) There are no special privileges regarding signing up for games. A previous MVP or a player who died early in the previous game is, under no circumstances, guaranteed a chance to play in the next game.

7a) So long as PMs have not been sent out, players may trade their slot with someone who wishes to play if the game is full.

8) Players may be required to have a certain amount of understanding of the game itself. All new players must at least read the tl;dr version of the rules.

9) Under no circumstances may a player play in more than one game on FFR at a time. This includes TWG and jTWG.

10) Replacing out of a game is to be done privately. Do not post in the game thread or any other public thread that you are replacing out of the game.

10a) A host may deny a player from replacing out if their reason for being replaced is not legitimate, such as "I don't want to be a wolf/human." The host's ruling is always final.

10b) Replacing out of games may incur additional penalties, especially if done often.

10c) The host reserves the right to replace players in such cases where the host deems it necessary, even if the player has not requested to be replaced.

10d) Speculating on the alignment of a player through the act of the player replacing out is legal.

11) So long as a player has died during the night phase only, they are entitled to one (1) deathpost. Deathposts cannot be relevant to the game, even if there are cardflips, and cannot inhibit the ability of living players to play the game or navigate the thread, such as posting the entire script to the Spongebob Squarepants Movie.

12) In games where instalynches may occur, instalynches occur when over 50% of the living players are voting for a valid option.
EX:
8 players alive, 4 voting for player A, player A has not been instalynched.
7 players alive, 4 voting for player A, player A has been instalynched.
7 players alive, 3 votes for player A, who has one phantom, player A has not been instalynched.
8 players alive, 4 voting for player A, who has one phantom, player A has been instalynched.

12a) In games with phantom votes, a player is considered to have accumulated one phantom vote on themselves for every phase they do not vote at least once, so long as an instalynch has not occurred.

12b) Phantom votes accumulate in such a way:
One phantom vote = .1 votes on yourself (this breaks Knife in the box decisions)
Two phantom votes = 1.1 votes on yourself
Three phantom votes = 2.1 votes on yourself
Four phantom votes = 3.1 votes on yourself, and so on

12c) In games with instalynches, instalynches occur, as the name suggests, instantly, and may not be prevented from taking place once the vote that triggers an instalynch is placed.
EX: Player A is one vote away from being instalynched. Player B votes for player A (without having their vote on player A previously), and player C, having their vote on player A previously, moves their vote elsewhere. This is resolved in the following manner:
Player B's vote occurs before player C's, player A is instalynched.
Player C's vote occurs before player B's, player A is not instalynched.
This includes votes cast with the same time stamp.

12d) In cases where the day phase ends with 2 or more players being tied for the lynch, a Knife in the Box (KitB) occurs. When this occurs, the host uses random.org to break the tie.

13) During any point of the game, if the host feels like a player has broken the rules of the game, the host may kill the player, effectively removing them from the game. It is up to the host whether or not this may take the place of a lynch or not.

13a) Intentionally modkilling yourself for strategic reasons is not permitted and may warrant additional punishment.

13b) The host reserves the right to penalize a player for rulebreaking through some other punishment other than a modkill if they feel it is necessary.

13c) Angleshooting, the act of attempting to determine some kind of information about the game through the wording/actions of the host, is not legal.

13d) Actively and knowingly playing against your own win condition is not legal.

14) Should a player feel like they have received information that no longer allows them to continue playing the game (ie accidentally gaining information you would not otherwise have), the player has an onus to inform the game host.

15) Two or more players who see each other IRL on a consistent basis are allowed to play in the same game if the game host allows it and there is no collaboration between the two players.

16) Parity, the term for when a scum faction has achieved an equal or greater number of members with the number of players in the game is determined as follows.
EX: Day phase: 7 players alive, 4 are town, 3 are wolves, play continues.
Day phase: 6 players alive, 3 are town, 3 are wolves, parity has been reached and the wolves have won the game.
Night phase: 7 players alive, 4 are town, 3 are wolves, there is no way that town can kill a wolf and no way a wolf can die barring a modkill, nothing can prevent parity from being reached and the wolves have won the game.
Night phase: 7 players alive, 4 are town and one of these is a Doctor, 3 are wolves with no special abilities, the game continues because there is a chance the medic saves the wolfkill, which will allow the game to continue.

16a) Parity is considered to be in effect when nothing, excepting modkills, may prevent parity from being reached.

17) The onus is on the host to explain the mechanics of the game, or provide the players with some way of understanding the mechanics, excepting mystery games. In the event that there is some serious kind of confusion, the host must clarify the mechanics publicly so long as they have not already done so.

18) All game bans are handed out by the current TWG forum moderators. These are DarkManticoreX2, Yoshl, T-Force, Makilaz and thesunfan. Bans may be appealed by PMing one or more moderators and explaining the reason for your appeal.

18a) The reasons behind any and all game or permanent bans from TWG must be made public.

19) TWG is a game not for the faint of heart. Emotions are often manipulated within the game. Players may attempt to anger or upset other players for strategic reasons. All of this is legal. Consistently flaming one or more players at such a point where it has gone outside the realm of the game and into personal quarrels is not legal.

20) Time-stamping, the act of creating private files, images, or similar creations, for the purposes of bread-crumbing information, real or not, is not allowed.

21) All rules of the site of FFR must be followed during TWG games (exception, multiposting).

Changelog:

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Hee hee hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

If I would to be picky though, you should maybe spoiler some of that into sections so the "ruleset" doesn't look clogged up.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I kind of disagree with 10d, I think it either needs to be legal or illegal (preferably illegal) instead of "ok but frowned upon."

Other than that looks pretty straightforward.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I think he did that due to the actions Zenith did in one game where he was a wolf, I was hounding him, and he replaced out in anger which caused me to form an entirely different opinion that I couldn't share due to it being still illegal.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

good stuff!

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

if it has to be one or the other, which is kind of is, but if I was to get rid of the "frowned upon," I'd simply make it legal rather than illegal, because a person is going to have thoughts on the action of replacing out, and its really, really dumb for a person not to comment on their thoughts for a pretty silly reason imo, even though I was the one pushing for it to be illegal before

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

True, but from the perspective of the person who's taking the time and effort to replace in, this would leave them in a pretty sucky position ex: AA in that game.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

It's still comical to see you guys thought anger was the main driving point on that replacement-- my cousin overdosed and died on heroine-- which didn't help an already unstable Zenith at that time.

---

Also Rule 2 should specify clearly that in a mystery setup it is okay to reveal your role PM (not word-for-word, but the idea of what you are capable of) because it has happened in the past and if someone were announcing what type of role they have they shouldn't be modkilled/banned for it, specifically in a mystery game. In a normal setup, yeah, don't mention it unless you are claiming.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

holy ballsacs zenith!

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

it kind of comes with the territory.
replacements are a kind of necessary evil, and replacing into a game p much sucks. In this particular instance, AA salvaged it about as best as he could've, and I don't think he died because of the fact that he replaced in or anything, but its kind of hard not to get a read based on someone replacing out

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Now see, there was no hint or mention of this. This is literally the first I've heard of this news.

Sorry to hear, bro.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

yea sorry to hear that zenith

see imo the reason for replacements should be serious stuff, not just you dont wanna play anymore. it's unfortunate that the system is abused in the past that it leads to people speculating "oh so and so replaced out, which they would only do as a wolf". some people come to mind that fit that criteria and i have those thoughts too, but it shouldn't be allowed.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

i think here, the onus is on the host for this.

I will be finding the bit i had written up about keeping track of a points system to deter afk=ing through a game at some point later

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

are you suggesting hosts start refusing a player's request to replace out?

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

i've done it lol

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I really only ever see myself doing that if a person's reason is "I don't want to be wolf/town/role" but I do suppose that this falls under mod discretion

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

i agree with all of these rules

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

A section with common abbreviations would be cool. I still don't know some. (Wifom, iso, etc like you did with knife in the box)

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I'll be doing this eventually

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

it has been pointed out to me I forgot to make a rule along the lines of "Intentionally playing against your win condition is not allowed"

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

does claiming SK and saying you'll town-side count

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Looks goochi

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

this is a grey-area but I want to say yes.

how does it not is the question here.

third parties are tricky...

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

up to host, and dependent on the game imo.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

yes

imho

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

claiming sk -> ok in certain situations, it can prolong your life and its essentially a hail mary. The time when lurker did it in the c9++ game comes to mind as an example of a time where it was necessary for him to do so in order to play to his win condition. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but I think Xel has done so as well.

claiming sk and town/wolf siding -> never ok

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Yeah it is tricky actually

Was just thinking a Fool could act as a clear for town and work towards eliminating wolves rather than trying to get lynched (against wincon)

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

considering a fool might be the most bastard role in the entire game, I hope to never see one on FFR. But I agree with your example

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

don't hate

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

we already have

plop got lynched day 1

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

i'm thinking of putting up bastard++ again lol

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Rule 13a could go either way, really. Smogon plays without this rule, and the games on there have since evolved in a different direction without lacking any of the high-level drama or scheming.

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue10/mafia

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I literally spent 10 minutes in the library looking for the TWG forum on Smogon and couldn't find it what the fuck is this witchcraft IGR

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

*cough*

http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/...-mafia-hub.78/

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Smogon has a... mafia subforum?

That's amazing, lmao.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

their rep used to play on DM a lot
he is a very attractive man

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

it directly goes against the spirit of the game in my opinion
that's the only problem I have with it tbh

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

yeah I like 13a as is. either find a more creative way to die intentionally or suck it up and live on.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

cool rules time to break them

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

we should have a rule where I win every time

oh wait we don't need a rule like that because I'm just that good

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

bahahaha about time I got some new sig material

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I would like to challenge this

the only reason I was able to win as serial killer once was to claim my role and side with humans (even though I was planning on backstabbing them in the penultimate phase) and force the game into a final four

in any game with multiple (more than two) factions, siding with another faction (including town) can be a strategic move and should not automatically constitute modkilling imo

at worst, the game setup's balance should be considered on a game-to-game basis --- one of the last games, the serial killer wasn't allowed to claim because it would screw up the game balance, but games like C9++ often are balanced in cases where SK claims happen

tl;dr I think it should be up to the host's discretion based on the game setup

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

god I love you dbp

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

@spongebob script

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I want to say typically claiming SK as SK (unless it's the only thing that will save you from getting lynched, or maybe a few other rare-ish scenarios where you're forced to play your hand) will decrease your chances of winning the game, significantly. killing the SK is part of town's win condition. and part of wolves' win condition. who have a factional nightkill.

that's a good point though, and I think it should be less about modkilling and more about potential after-game repercussions if malicious intent was obvious.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I agree that most of the time it will work against you, but in the other scenarios it's also a gambit, sort of like fakeclaiming cop. You have a remarkably high chance of getting killed by town when you execute it (and mess up), but gambits in and of themselves are parts of a larger strategy and should be treated as such. (e.g. thinking ahead and realizing that it's impossible to survive if you last until the Final Three, and claiming allows you to end the game during a night phase, claiming at least makes it possible to survive; or, fakeclaiming cop will 100% get you killed later on, but if you are a sinking ship you can claim cop in order to expose the real cop and help your teammates before you die.)

I agree with the malicious intent part --- but there's a difference between making a risky gambit and having it fail vs conceding the game.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I think plays like that make the game hell-a refreshing

That's just me though, hahaha

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

it's very possible (especially early game) for it to not be a play whatsoever though and just be a turning the role into something it was never intended to be and shifting the balance of the game and making it far less interesting because deep SK runs are interesting as shit

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

dbp got them good points though.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

this is totally possible

I guess my point is that it shouldn't be a blanket statement and should be taken case by case? idk

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I would say this is completely different. wolves win as a team and dying earlier doesn't impede your ability to meet wincon, especially if it means helping your teammates live longer.

claiming a role that is anti-town and needs to not die in order to win is far less often a reasonable play.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

but yeah blanket statement not work here

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

this rule feels a lot clunkier than it needs to be and is honestly quite confusing. it feels like the only reason this rule is here is because the old rule thread stated that you needed to play a jTWG. i think just stating that jTWGs exist and are good to beginners to play, but not required might be good enough.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I want to see a rule added where all game hosts must place the day / night lengths in all game OP's, especially when being voted on.

It's gotten a lot better recently, but I am of the "just in case" mentality.

On that note.

Should elaborate somewhere about "constructive posting" constraints and how they're to be handled in case some host actually thinks it's a good idea to use this.

Would like also a note in the rule set about language and fellow player treatment. I think the current stance is fine, but I don't think you touched on it anywhere.

I dig that all ban reasons should be public. 100% love that rule.

I've done this twice actually Yoshl used it in a game to fake claim it and get me killed.

I'm still mad about it.

I haven't forgotten Yoshl.

You little shit.

There should be zero rules pertaining to how SK claims / if they do, because it CAN 100% be used to obtain victory when played correctly by a skilled player.

Possibly consider adding a rule about how votes are done for the hosts who use the auto vote counter.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Interested in other people's thoughts, but I think just saying "jTTWGs are a thing" doesn't really have a place in a rules thread.

The part about hosts putting day/night lengths is not really a rule thing, I think, it more relates to how games are modded. This will be discussed in a future thread along with a few other points.

By constructive posts I think you mean contentful? I think that this also falls under mod discretion.

A rule about language and fellow player treatment is probably necessary, that's a good point.

The reasoning for bans being public is because its the way its always been and its a good tradition. Trying to keep everything public rather than behind the scenes is the way to go, I think.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I agree that I think this should be done as a case by case basis. There are 100% situations where claiming SK is strategic and beneficial, I think that what you did was fine. I think most of the time SKs claim, its fine. But when someone does what choof did, or what nijatwo did a very long time ago, where you just claim a promise to townside, its pretty awful for the game and 100% constitutes playing against your win condition.

Case-by-case basis should make it so that it allows for strategically claiming your role, but not saying "Fuck my win condition"

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I think the cult really showcased that, because I wasn't sure what to do when hosting the bastard++ and people were openly threatening "If the cultist targets me i'm fucking outing them because fuck i have a good role" etc. etc.

case by case should be fine for this i think?

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I did mean contentful, but I guess more what I'm after is that the rules never get added after the voting stage, and maybe the rules of game voting might need to be included so the rulebook is a bit more complete and encompasses everything?

I mean sure, I'm all for hosts choosing the rules for their games. However, I do think once the game has been voted for you should be shit out of luck on changing / adding rules.

Sorry if I seem a bit clingy to this.

Anyways on the ban thing: I agree aside from the tradition standpoint.

It's great. It really is. You don't have to wait till the time's up to know the reason, you can defend yourself if you feel you should, and if others have a disagreement they can voice it. It just makes more sense.

Also damn dbp on sk claims and stuff.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I mean this completely unsarcastically, the problem here is the fact that you're hosting a bastard game. Technically, they would be playing against their win condition, though. In signing up for a game such as Bastard++, you agree to put up with all possible bullshit, and that includes being converted to the cult.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

well regardless, your win condition fluctuates, and they'd be playing against their new win condition.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

IS GOOD

when fiction first tried to implement this modern game voting thing, part of the idea was that people would hoard their votes and USE them as LEVERAGE for potential mods to improve their games based on feedback.

once the game is voted, it's done. you're saying, "yes, this is the game that should be played, completely as is." and once anything is in motion, it shouldn't be changed ad-hoc. just learn for next time.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

wow what's with all these rules what is this a dictatorship

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Yee

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Sunfan is secretly Hitler

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Rules smules

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Question, does being banned from playing in games also exclude you from sending and potentially hosting a setup?

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I would say so, yes.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

Updated a few things:

Added a changelog


Removed rule 8 (No player, for any reason, is required to play in 1 or more jTWG games before playing in a TWG game).

Made rule 8a rule 8

Changed the wording of rule 6a from (Voting must be done in the thread, with no exceptions) to (Voting for the lynch must be done in the thread, with no exceptions).

Changed the word of rule 10d from (Speculating on the alignment of a player through the act of the player replacing out is legal, but is discouraged) to (Speculating on the alignment of a player through the act of the player replacing out is legal).

Added rule 10e

Added rule 13d

Would like to see this formally adopted as the new rules list at some point

Again, if anyone feels like there are things missing, please let me know. I'll work on adding a tl;dr at some point in the near future

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

there should be a discussion about 13d I think. I'm still in favor of it, but IIRC several were not

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

What falls under 13d? I think that needs to be specified.
Because one could argue dropping off the face of the earth mid-game breaches that rule, but I think you're getting at something entirely different.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

down with 13d

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I think we need to talk about 13d

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

I still maintain that pretending to align with another faction holds strategic benefits

and that outing yourself might further your chances of winning

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

it does

my thinking is, and I think it was you who said it earlier, that this kind of thing has to be evaluated on a case by case basis

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

There's a difference between strategy and purposely throwing the game when it comes to playing with/against your win condition.

I think 16 just needs to be reworded. 16a seems mildly redundant with how you open 16 itself. The third example is also overly wordy and I feel would be better introduced after the doctor example.

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

:like:

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

requesting an addition to rule 1

"rule 1a) 1a"

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

13d makes sense for strictly town vs wolf mechanics
third parties should be allowed to play against their win con
it wouldnt exactly make them liked or is not an inherently good thing to do but outright saying "you have to play this role EXACTLY like you're supposed to" is not very cool

there's also the fact that people could play against a win con and just straight up say "ya idk what happened there but i was just having a rough game I guess !!"

Re: New TWG Rules Proposal & Discussion
 

tl;dr TWG Rules

The Tags for voting are [twgv]name here[/twgv, with a closed bracket after the last v.

Don't edit or delete posts.

Don't post your role PM, or make direct reference to it.

Don't post screenshots of conversations between yourself and the moderator, or yourself and other players.

Don't talk to living players about the game if you are not in the game.

Don't impersonate other players or the host using fake accounts.

Do have an understanding of the fundamentals of the game before playing in your first game.

If you need to be replaced, ask the host to be replaced privately.

Do not make any posts after you have died or communicate with any living players (Exception, players who die during the night phase are entitled to one death post that contains no game related content).

Respect all decisions of the host as final.

Do not flame other players.

Don't break any rules of the site FFR itself, with the exception being you are allowed to multipost as much as you want in the TWG forum.