Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Asking to the best of the best players out there:

Do you think you can handle 255 BPM 32nds going on for about 13-14 seconds? (which is true to the chiptune I'm currently stepping)

Do you think it's overkill, even if it is still true to the song?

Keep in mind that's 34 notes a second.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

The trick is about patterning, and which game you're charting for, and then the real question.

Who do you want such a file to cater to? If you want it to be hard, and the difficulty is cohesive, go for it.

If not, maybe make an extra difficulty on Stepmania that has this, and then one with a simplified pattern. Then you get both worlds. :D

If it's for FFR, it's not exactly unheard of, but keeping it so a jumptrill-able roll might be in your best interest. (AKA a pattern of 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 would suffice as it can be [34] [12] ect.)

Sorry for the vague answer but I hope I covered all the bases.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

it's not possible currently unless it's just straight jumptrillable

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Too fast for that long. Just be dishonest but make it more fun by making it 24ths or somethin

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

The difference is between like 2 or 3 players who are the best in the world playing your file once or twice and being like "wow this is a lot"

Or going with say 24ths and making a file that is accessible to many more top players and will have much more replay value.

As someone who has enjoyed making both types of files, I say: it's your choice.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Maybe Shadow will be able to play it lol

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

255 BPM 32nds are the shit

I just have trouble with 255 BPM 16ths still

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

very possible and fun for the whole family

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Fast, and if your file is pretty simple everywhere else then also a detriment for replay value.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Just do it

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Keep in mind with a stream that speed you'd need incredibly simple patterns or it becomes unplayable without some sort of mashing. 13-14 seconds is way too long; even if it was a straight jumptrill roll you'd be better off following the other advice given in this thread.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

2 fast 4 me

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Alright, so I made it different, in the 13-14 seconds, only 3.8 seconds of the melody which is in the simplest patern (basically 1-2-3-4 32nds for a couple seconds and 4-3-2-1 32nds for the rest) is stepped in continuous 32nds. The rest are single 4-note 32nd paterns every 4ths. So the same amount of notes as the 16th part before it, but compressed in one 8th (still mostly following the melody) with a pause between the second 8th and the next 4th.

1 2 3 4 - - - - 3 4 1 2 - - - - 4 3 2 1, etc. You get the point.

Song is Aquellex - Starflight, by the way and the part I am talking about is from 1:47
And it is meant for FFR.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

absolutely not

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

You were given 3 good options from other people in this thread and you took none of them.

Went ahead and listened to the song to see if what you did end up doing will work and it does not, the fast 8bit synth doesn't have super significant volume drops so having arbitrary gaps in 32nds (or 24ths if you end up doing that) creates the illusion of bursts that aren't there. The rhythm is constant, you would best have notes that follow a constant rhythm throughout the section. The bursts of 32nds that you have (assuming you've put them in the right places) could work if you want to follow the percussion in this section, but the melody is much more prominent anyway so that really wouldn't work. I question why you, an inexperienced stepartist, wants to make a file difficult to the point where you can't even playtest it yourself (which is the main/most frequent feedback a stepartist has available). This isn't to say newer stepartists can't make really hard files, but the fact that your attempt at an original solution really doesn't work makes me question your approach to the rest of the file, especially considering you've portrayed this file as a difficulty 105+ just from the original thread question.

This also isn't a post attempting to discourage you from making the file, but I'd rather save you time and potential frustration if it's not as good as you think it's going to be. Step back from the file for a bit and work on getting a better overall grasp of stepping in general. Look at the harder files that are already in game and see what they've done with different situations. If anything, examining and understanding what the hard files in ffr have done is your best resource, since that is the standard your file must meet.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I wouldn't mind a difficulty 110+ file if it's well structured. A file that the best players get 200+ goods on only makes it less boring. Only files that give me high good counts are DP, Powerflux and Undici, 3 songs out of 2k+. That being said, you're probably not gonna have it ingame cuz people seem not to agree.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I'm not insinuating that the high difficulty by itself is grounds for likely rejection, I agree that the top-end players need access to more files in the 110+ range. The reasons we don't have more are:
1. Few songs are suitable for files that difficult
2. The exclusivity of the process most of the hardest files have gone through to get in game. (This is a whole other can of worms that I'd rather not open on a public forum).

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I've played Powerflux and You Universe all the way through once and I will probably never play them again.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

basically don't step anything you don't understand

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

:(

---

In all seriousness, I can only suggest a more rigid 16th stream passage at this stage in contrast to the ordinary 16th runs from that track.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

It's too god damn fast

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Most great players are now on stepmania (etterna thing) and having no files to play on ffr main engine makes it way less attractive.

"Oh but only 3 playes can play such high difficulty" yeah well those 3 players are basically the image of the game online, so mayyyybe we should make them stay.

Anyway this thread is about 255bpm 32nds and all I have to say is Yes do it and if it's properly structured I'd accept it tbh.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

i would argue, rather, than the lack of files making ffr less attractive, that it's probably got something to do with uhhh the engine maybe?
just an idea that i'm throwing out there uh it probably isn't right at all

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

yeah its certainly partly the engine but only having like 10 charts that are even remotely difficult for moderately high level players definitely doesnt help

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

There was lots of activity even when we only had legacy/velo engine. We're lacking files and it shows.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Video of said stepping: https://youtu.be/YHN58SFUUio
As you can see, I've followed the melody for the 16th stepping, thing is, I don't want to do a 24th step, as it would be unfollowable with the melody.

I did it that way, because I noticed that audibly, the beginning of each 4th seemed to "lead" the melody in this part. So it seemed like a good idea to put emphasis on the first 8th

I wouldn't mind doing another 16th step, though I really am not sure how I should implement the instrumental change to give it a more intense feel if not by making them 32nds.

SpaceGorilla, I understand it.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

why

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

You didn't actually read my first post did you.
At 255 bpm, nobody is going to be following an arpeggiated melody. The player won't notice the lack of precise music relevance at that speed. If you want to go hard with 32nds then fine, do that, just don't have weird bursts of 32nds when the synth is continuous.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

This isn't about whether people notice if it follows the melody or not. I find it fun to make chiptune files that follow the melody, as it's complex melodies are one of the main draws of chiptune. Which is why I said I don't want to make a 24th, as it would be impossible to follow it, not that it's not better. But I understand, I'm just not sure how I could possible make a harder 16th at that point, or if I should be doing, let's say, a 32nd roll that switches direction along with the melody. Though, there would be a lot of 32nds that are on the same note only one 16th apart (1-2-3-4-3-2-1 The threes, for example), is that a problem?

Oh also, can someone define a "jumpthrill"?

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Then go hard with 32nds. Don't let your memes be dreams.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

If possible, can you answer these two questions?

That could be useful info, what do you mean by "rigid"?

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

someone please end this torment i am in literal agony

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Question 1: Yes. 510 BPM staircase patterns are definitely a problem. I'd say ~200 BPM 32nd would be absolute maximum for stream with any kind of anchoring or minijacking like this
Question 2: I think you mean jumptrill. If you don't know what that is, and you're attempting to step a brutal file for FFR, yikes.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

no

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

1: Yeah, that's what I thought.
2: I'm pretty sure I know what it is, just the way people used the term in this thread (namely jumptrill rolls) gave me the impression what I think it is isn't what it is, as I've never really considered jumptrills to be rollable. We're talking of [13]-[24], [12]-[34], [14]-[23] right? Thanks for being an ass, though. :I

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Alright I'll say it, I don't think you're ready to make a file of this difficulty, at least not one that is up to FFR's standards for acceptance through the batch. Just looking through the various questions gives me the impression that you really aren't sure of what you are doing at this point (and the video of that part of the file basically confirms that). Again, not trying to be the naysayer that says you should just stop trying, but temper your expectations accordingly for how you expect the file will probably be received.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Why do you think I came here with a question? Because I've got everything figured out? Do you seriously think not answering the question and instead analyzing me is going to help anything?

I came here for some insight, not to know whether or not you think I'm "ready" to make the file. That just sounds elitist.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

It's as simple as using a jumptrill instead of hitting a 32nd wall as individual notes, since you can get away with it without dropping accuracy, especially at this speed. The concern several people in this thread have made is that if the 510 BPM stream isn't jumptrillable, it shouldn't be included. An example you can look to is the FFR song "-+" which includes a few 550ish BPM walls (and when I say 550, I'm referring to the speed it would be if it were a 16th string, which is the standard). If these walls were not at least 90% jumptrillable (and they're 100% jumptrill) I'm pretty sure you'd see an autorejection in the judging process.

And as for being an ass, sure I was, but the concept of jumptrilling rolls is an extremely basic one that anyone attempting to step a file of this difficulty should at least have already known about before starting.

As for the sample you posted earlier, the 32nd bursts are a no-go. The 16th js section is underlayered especially if you're gonna drop that wall hammer on people straight after, and I actually can't hear why you would step any 32nds in this section period just because the type of sound changes. The actual frequency of notes remains the same. Slow the song down to half speed and listen for yourself.

I'd say you have three options, all of which involve killing the 32nds altogether:
1) Keep the layering you have in that first section the same, step a similar stream you have to the first part but with heavier layering for the part you currently have as 32nds. This would create a nice difficulty increase for the heavier section without going overboard. Currently you only have the main drum beats as jumps, where you could put jumps for the second melody that is going on in front of the part you stepped as 16th stream or even the more minor drum beats as well.
2) Apply this layering to all streams that fit the above description and use color theory to make the heavier section more visually interesting.
3) Switch up the patterning while maintaining the same jumpstream structure for the heavier section so that it feels more unique.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

If you step it like this you can retain a sustainably difficult chart without overdoing the difficulty for the 32nds, players can choose to hit them as rolls or jumptrill them.


all in all i think the real question that needs to be answered is how does the rest of the file compare to the 32nds?, if they are far more difficult than the rest of the file then they should be reduced in difficulty, or the rest of the file should be harder. That's my opinion.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I didn't feel the need to answer the question because several people before me pointed out your viable options. Even after the initial question, I gave you some advice. You then post a video later on of the file showing that you chose to not heed any of said options or advice. Not sure what you expect people to conclude from that. And with regards to your usage of the forum as a resource, yes it is a good place for insight, but there is kind of an understanding that you should have a good grasp of all the basics before you go hard with a 105+ file. Frankly I don't care whether you want to know whether you're ready or not, I said that in the interest of trying to get it through your head that it is probably in your best interest to take a step back and get a grasp of things so that you produce a better file when all is said and done. You're responding as if I'm antagonizing you and daring you to fail but as a fellow stepartist, judge, and someone that wants to see more hard files get into the game, I honestly want you to succeed. Going forward with making a file that you're likely not ready for isn't the fastest way to improve.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I honestly think it's a phase. I stepped circus galop when I was d4.
what a mess.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I get what both you and icontrolyourworld (by the way, thank you for the example). I am not specifically trying to make a brutal file, though the melody/sound design, in a way, requires me to make that second part more intense.

I'm currently going for your point 1), where I do a stream, but also move the kick jumps completely off from the first repetition (for overall difficulty progression, I might end up putting it back later) of the first part and add additionnal jumps for the overlaying melody during the second part, effectively so every 4th has a jump. To give it more uniqueness, I've also made it so at that point, it's the jumps following the overall melody, and the single notes are simply following the upwards/downwards motion of the melody in that 4th.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Go back to Etterna rofl


The video preview looks quite messy I approve. The bursts shouldnt be bursts and the roll wall makes no sense (I'd rather see harder patterns than a straight roll if you're going to make it relevant to the music)

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

ilu mat but the engine is the only reason why I quit ffr :'(

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

If the issue is that FFR needs to have more 100+ files then I think I'd expect there to be more SDGs and top-end scores on Make the Fire Burn and Where Is My Balls

FFR could have a huge influx of files only the top 0.001% can play competitively and I don't think it would get that 0.001% back

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Well if it's not gonna save it at least it'd help a tiny bit. I'm not saying I have the solution but I know Max (Prawnskunk) is working on ffr a lot. If the game is dead for you there's no way I'm convincing you to play it anymore.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Skeletor

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

I bow to no one!

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Woah woah I didn't mean to imply that the game is dead for me, sorry
Just pointing something out

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Like I said I changed it, even I wasn't sure of it at all, plus, I'm not even specifically trying to make an unbelievably hard file anyway.

That's how I changed it: https://youtu.be/r_xeqt9l5FQ (last part isn't fully stepped yet, but you can see by the jumps what I meant by the jumps following the melody) (okay, enough memeing, that's the real link: https://youtu.be/_u6oL6EL1sQ)

Pretty sure he meant it more as there aren't enough top-tier competitive players on FFR to justify going out of our way to make those 110+ files.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

still not good I'm afraid. Goes from straight stream to a jumpstream on the major drum beats after four measures or so. It should be this type of jumpstream the whole way through until the tougher section. In the tougher section, you opt to put a jump on every 4th note which is fine and matches the secondary melody. You could also consider putting the major drum beats in this section as hands instead of jumps to add emphasis. You stop short for some reason when you really don't need to. These patterns aren't stamina-intensive, and even if they were, so what? If you want an extreme example of what this hard section COULD look like where every beat is layered in, you can look at icyworld's example video from earlier (he put it in the first section).

I would say, to fix this, layer the intro stream the same way all the way through from the beginning like you have in the midsection, this is fine.
You can keep the hard section the way it is, but extend it through the whole section.

Also, the 5-note anchor at 9 seconds into the video isn't a good choice considering it's the only one ever and is kind of an evil thing to have. It makes an otherwise enjoyable stream not as enjoyable.

Good progress though.

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

Honestly, there was a 95% chance I was going to put back the jumps like it was anyway when I'd have stepped the part before that. The song's drums aren't what you'd call easy, so it would actually have made it a step down in difficulty. So yeah, I'll give the first quarter it's jumps back.

And like I said, I actually just haven't stepped the last part yet. I do intend to make it similar.

I didn't realize about that 5-note anchor though, good eye!

Re: Opinion on 255 BPM 32nds?
 

oh oops completely missed this the first time around lol