Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Information
Song Title: THE FAUST [Heavy]
Song Artist: Masqued Pierrot
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=3013

Description of Issue(s):
In the jacky part and in the [34] [1234] transition before, a few notes in the jacks are shifted forward or backward a frame, causing 2-framers where there's normally 3-framers and need shifting to be normal. The jack framers are all in the spoiler there since there's a good amount of them.




The roll here is kinda framefucked but I'm not too too sure what's framefucked aside from the 1 [23] 4 in the beginning of it, nor am I sure whether it's framefixable.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Information
Song Title: Find A Way Out
Song Artist: Aeden & Harley Bird
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2829

Description of Issue(s):
The grace notes in Find A Way Out's chorus are 192nds, which create 2,100bpm gallops. As a result, the grace notes are supposed to be hit as jumps alongside the corresponding 4th/8th.

However, from notes 270-813 (the chorus), there are constant 1-frame gaps between certain chords (e.g. notes 274-275, 372-373), which create odd ~300bpm 3-note bursts every now and then. This is not how the chart is supposed to be played, and it's verified by asking the creator of the chart themselves.

Examples are provided here:



There are some other misconverted framers in the chart, but the grace notes there are in sections with just 8th chords, so it wouldn't be anywhere as much of a concern.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Information
Song Title: Crow's Ghost [Another]
Song Artist: Twenty Knives
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2976

Description of Issue(s):
Note 818 is placed a frame too late, creating a 225bpm gallop with note 817. The gallops here are supposed to be played as 190bpm 64ths (760bpm), so a 1-frame gap between notes 817 and 818 would be better (450bpm gap -- not close to 760 but is functionally better than a 0-frame gap).

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Information
Song Title: I'll Fight Back
Song Artist: Sullivan King
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...hp?level=2873#

Description of Issue(s):

From the second drop in the song onward there's a few framebotched jacks, causing 2-framers.
These should be moved up or down a frame depending on where they are to make the 2-framers not exist.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Information
Song Title: The Nature of Dying
Song Artist: Goreshit
Link: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=2821

Description of Issues:

34 two-framers.
I'm going to be putting the screenshot album for obvious reasons.

Xel provided me the chart to reference as well so I can even say where the framers need to be moved.

The slow trill section from notes 500-660 may require some framefixing but I'm not 100% sure how to deal with those or if those are even possible to fix. The BPM doesn't slow down from 171 at all in that section so it may be fixable but I can't outright identify anything from what I can see. All I know how to see at the moment are 2-framers. :P

Unclear framers are put in spoilers with the arrowvortex chart vs. the FFR chart.

https://imgur.com/a/eOp5o0o - Here's the album.

#1: Note 135 - Upwards 1 frame
#2: Note 147 - Upwards 1 frame
#3: Note 239 - Upwards 1 frame
#4: Note 389 - Downwards 1 frame
#5: Note 665 - Downwards 1 frame
#6: Note 716 - Upwards 1 frame
#7: Note 779 - Downwards 1 frame
#8: Note 796 - Upwards 1 frame
#9: Note 817 - Downwards 1 frame
#10: Note 822 - Upwards 1 frame
#11: Note 830 - Downwards 1 frame
#12: Note 859 - Upwards 1 frame?
#13: Note 882 - Downwards 1 frame
#14: Note 896/897? - Upwards 1 frame, Downwards if it's 896.
#15: Note 912 - Upwards 1 frame
#16: Note 945 - Downwards 1 frame
#17: Note 951 - Upwards 1 frame
#18: Note 960 - Downwards 1 frame
#19: Note 992/993? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if it's 993.
#20: Note 1018 - Downwards 1 frame
#21: Note 1051/1052+1053? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if it's the [34].
#22: Note 1095 - Downwards 1 frame
#23: Note 1123/1124? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1124.
#24: Note 1131 - Downwards 1 frame
#25: Note 1134/1135? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1135
#26: Note 1138/1139? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1139
#27: Note 1145 - Downwards 1 frame
#28: Note 1179/1180? - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1180
#29: Note 1276 - Downwards 1 frame
#30: Note 1298 - Upwards 1 frame
#31: Note 1365/1366 - Downwards 1 frame, Upwards if 1366
#32: Note 1448 - Downwards 1 frame
#33: Note 1600 - Upwards 1 frame
#34: Note 1615 - Upwards 1 frame















That took a lot of time so I really really really hope I didn't miss anything or mislabel something. If there are more debatable framers I missed please say so and I can add the AV screenshot alongside them.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Requests after August 23rd as of this post in the order they were given:
- (Done) No Purpose Flour
- (Done) Elesis Theme Song [Future Bass Remix]
- Ants Of The Sky
- (Done) Good L_ck (Yo_'re F_cked)
- Super Soaker
- (Done) AiAe
- (Done) THE FAUST [Heavy]
- (Done) Find A Way Out
- (Done) Crow's Ghost [Another]
- (Done) I'll Fight Back
- The Nature of Dying

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

On the topic of frame-fixes, I'd like to advocate for erring on the side of conservatism--certain charts have been framefixed *too* much, notably Stress Free Style (the 12th jacks, which are equivalent to nearly 200bpm 16ths, getting nerfed uniformly to 3-framers) and the jumptrill triplets in Fante and JSB (which got spaced out to the point that they're essentially just weird 12th jumptrills). I'm seeing some echoes of that again here. I didn't comment on it before because I don't really care too much and undoing it is far more trouble than it's worth, but I wasn't really a fan of removing all the 2-framers in Fox Tales--it's 174, so nearly half the 16th jacks should convert as 2-framers, and removing *all* of them feels strange to me, which is why I suggested only removing the problematic ones, i.e. the ones in the mini-trills.

Subaru's request for The Nature of Dying seems in this spirit as well. It's 171, so some 2-framers are expected--it seems unreasonable to me to remove *all* of them. The 3-note jacks pointed out are 180bpm post-conversion, which is not an unreasonable speed to approximate them by--certainly it's closer than 150, which they would be post-framefixes. The suggestion at Note 819 is fair, because that pattern is actually made significantly more difficult by being a 2-framer than a straight-up minijack without the jump, so turning it into a 3-framer is likely much closer to how it's meant to be played. The 4-note jack at 893 is actually already as good as it gets--that can't be framefixed out. Of course, it sounds like Subaru's been in contact with Xel, so obviously the will of the actual stepartist overrides all else.

But yeah, in summary, I recommend being sparing with framefixes and only doing them where a pattern really got messed up by conversion or at the will of the stepartist.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

As a prenote: Yes, Subaru did the work on it while in a discord call with me. I did not help, but I told Subaru if he wanted to do this I would happily send him the file for the best results.

I appreciate that someone cared enough to suggest fixing one of my files.

Anywho:

I want to make something clear, if someone wants to go through and point out all the mis-converted notes in any of my work, I will happily send them the file to make their life easier for doing something that makes my file in the game better. If a file spikes in difficulty because *lol frames* that's not what I want, and I don't think most simfile creators want that either.

What you're literally suggesting, is that we leave stuff alone because the game converted it poorly, and that's a bit tone-deaf if you asked me.

But if we maybe want to message the file creator and double check - there's no harm in that. I'm ridiculously particular about modifying my work without consulting me (even changing the song preview would piss me off tbh) so I'd understand that approach if I am honest.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

I think common ground here would be to reference the initial submitted file (unless the original deets are long gone because it was something submitted prior to like 2012 or something) and use that to determine whether or not a raised concern in this thread is valid or not. Fixing framers in a file to better represent what was initially submitted is always a big +, unless you have some sort of fetishism over the converter grossly converting frames for you (if you do, seek help).

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

This is not what I'm suggesting at all. I didn't explicitly say it, but I thought I made it clear enough in my previous post that if framers cause unnecessary difficulty spikes, they absolutely should be fixed out because that corrupts the spirit of the file. Same goes for things like flams converting into jumps, or colour jumps converting into flams. The framefixes in Cest What were great, I'm 100% on board with those, and hell, your chart for The Last Step could use some fixes too. My point was that "poor conversion" has sometimes been taken to mean "anything that's not literally the easiest it could've converted as" and that's... not really representative of the chart often times. Hence why I advocate only framefixing where conversion significantly alters the flow or intent of a pattern, or its difficulty relative to the section it's in. Occasional very isolated 2-framers in Fox Tales, for example, don't fit any of those criteria.

The best solution is, as Xel and Gold have mentioned, to run framefixes by the original stepartist before doing them, and then we wouldn't have to speak in such generality, because generality always leads to "what if"s. This might not always be possible, though, and I believe my points are valid and important in those situations as well.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

I also feel Stress Freestyle was fixed the "wrong way". The fixes reduced the swingy nature of the chart and even if having 2-framers throughout might seem unfair, it would feel closer to what was intended.

edit: just played it again to double-check and ehhh I can understand it I guess? It still has a bit of swing to it but not enough haha

The 2 framers in Nature of Dying seem to be a bit too much though...it's really a rock and a hard place scenario and it's too bad. If I ever chart something for this game I'd be reluctant to choose something that plays too far away from a good conversion. Good thing my only chart will forever be Croco and would never get in-game muahaha

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Title: Bloodmeat [Heavy]
Song Artist: Protest the Hero
Link: https://www.flashflashrevolution.com...php?level=1220

Description of Issue(s)
There's a miscolored jump at around note 155 (the two red [34] jumps) in what looks like should be 8th intervals to match similar parts of the file.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

This one is likely deliberate. There are some times when this trick is done (and dore used this trick a fair bit) to keep the "downbeat" on red arrows despite the music changing with an odd time signature. A more obvious example of this trick is in White Walls part 1 starting around note 230.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Interesting! I never paid enough attention to notice that be used before. I was trying to figure out why the converter would goof in that part but assumed that it was just some faulty function of it from the past that I was unaware of, since that's definitely happened before. Thanks for the info!

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Going back to the requests listed in this post, I got around to a few tonight. I'll see what others I can get to after New Year's.

Crow's Ghost [Another] - shifted 64th gallop one frame earlier on Note 817. Song is half BPM in this part so that explains the two frame placement from earlier.

No Purpose Flour - fixed a few 64th gallops and the 48th roll section mentioned in the post.

Elesis Theme Song [Future Bass Remix] - updated the 8th jacks to be five frames apart where they were most egregious. Also updated white note placements to be zero frames apart in the screenshot given. The 4 frame hiccups in those jacks were due to the song being slightly faster than 180 BPM.

The above three changes have been uploaded.

With respect to THE FAUST, there are two given changes: the 2 frame hiccup from the 16th minijack jump into the quad to be shifted to 3 frames difference, and the 48th roll to start with the zero frame placement as it imitates a 255 BPM 32nd burst. Since the song is at 170 BPM, some of the 2 frame 16th placements are expected, but some might be more egregious than others -- so I'd like to take more time on this one.

I also take these thoughts into consideration when doing frame adjustments. I look at surrounding notes, BPM, and several other things.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

I'll Fight Back
- Made 32nd rolls consistent
- Adjusted the 2 frame 16th jack placements to 3 frames (155 BPM 16ths)

There's a NLP project I'm working on at my job that will occupy me for the next three days but I'm looking to finish up some more of the backlog mentioned in this post later in the week.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Find a Way Out [175 BPM]
- adjusted 192nd placements to snap to corresponding 4th and 8th notes

Good L_ck (Yo_'re F_cked) [178 BPM]
- adjusted 192nd placements to snap to corresponding 4th and 8th notes
- adjusted some 32nd gallops to be 1-frame placements instead of 2 frames to reperesent flams

AiAe [180 BPM]
- Adjusted 32nd bursts to be four 1-frame 32nd placements in a row, with a two frame gap in the next 4th or 8th note. This means the right-to-left and left-to-right 32nd rolls are all 1 frame placements on each hand, and the other 5-note 32nd bursts are consistent with being the 1-frame bursts in succession.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Bless you Dossar. I've been meaning to ask for frame fixes on Good L_ck since the file was released but felt bad as those frame gaps were entirely my fault.

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

THE FAUST [Heavy] [170 BPM]
- Minijack jump in the 16th jumptrill into the quad is now 3 frames vs. 2 frames
- Adjusted 16th minijacks and 3-note 16th jacks to be consistent placements
- 48th roll fixed to not have [23] inside of it
- Offset color note at the end adjusted to be where the 8th note placement was

Re: Frame Fix Log
 

Song Title: Hiccup
Song Author: Knasibas
Link: https://www.flashflashrevolution.com...php?level=2839

The first and last minijack section (about 1/3 and 2/3 into the song) has badly converted 16ths that create unintentional cameljacks and hand-version cameljacks respectively

There's also a poorly converted, AAA-killing 32nd RIGHT on the reverse roll that transitions into the last fourth of the song.