Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Mastermind didn't pick neighbours. That was all due to the survey answers which then got placed onto the graph. We've been over this.


And I am not sadistic enough to make noobs a wolf. Especially in a game like this.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

thanks for all the public sharing of info, guys

this game can be a shining beacon, a prelude to a Communist Utopia, one wherein we can all win together if we reject our "zero-sum game" mentality

only 1 person has to lose this game. the rest of us can all win together. we only stand to benefit from sharing our thoughts with each other.

let this be the first True Collectivist game of TWG on this site.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Here are some ways to extract your chat logs from Discord:

https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter

https://dht.chylex.com/

You can use either of these, I think. They both produce text files. The second one seems to require a browser extension, though. The first one seems to come with a GUI, but you have to compile it yourself.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

You would. The wolf team would be too stacked otherwise. You’d also be a fool not to put one there.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I need to get this off my chest.

I'm extremely disappointed by this whole premise. I'm glad there are people who seem to be enjoying this post-game, but for me, this has left me both annoyed and upset.

I signed up for this game because host asked me to. It's my first time even logging in on FFR for years now, but I did it because I'm not one to deny a request like that. Especially considering it's TWG 200. Sure, I've been in an anon game that Xiz asked me to join, but again I'm not one to say no; that one also went really well and was a fun time. I don't generally enjoy bastard games as-is, but like I said I was happy to be a part of my friend's ambition for a game 200. It seemed like a special experience to be a part of.

The game starts, and honestly I was busy, and it did hurt town quite a bit I felt. I felt really stressed and pressured about it all, especially with so much else going on. I've been having issues with my relationship, as well as a ton of stress from starting my new job a few weeks ago, not to mention the hundreds of other little things. I decided though, I'd put extra time and energy and stress into this, to make sure I was able to contribute to something that mattered for my friends. I made an ass of myself, needless to say, and I was looking forward for a chance to make up for it.

The meteor hit after I put a ton of effort into the game, and I figured, oh cool, something to deduct and figure out! So I was finally excited about something. Then, the info about the game being "solved", about everything being "known", all that illuminati jazz, started happening. I figured, well that's lame; but, it might be a ruse? It might be some kind of 3p win con that we can thwart maybe? That sure sounds like a fun role!

Alas, then the game progressed. ITAs ended up not mattering I figure. Nothing even close to that mattered. Now I'm just looking at a group of people who were selected to have fun this game, trying to find one person who, pardon the harshness but it's how I feel, exploit their friends to see if they could tailor a situation to trick them.

That's the tip of the iceburg though. I'm even just going over all the comments from the masterminds now, in my head, and how they manipulated the game. There were so many arguments that happened that could have at least had the know-it-alls try to stifle a bit, given they knew. There was so much happening that didn't need to go on. I'm thinking now, too, of all that was said this game by those who did know everything; presumably the game didn't matter to them, so what's to gain from making us suffer?

It really was suffering at times. This game was not super fun for me, but at least was a unique and interesting experience with novel twists and turns that could be deducted. There was a retribution element in play with the second game, so post-death there was still a game to be played. There were win cons to be deducted. So much to be done!

But now, it's devolved to those in the know having the fun and sharing their experiences with how fun it was for them this past week, and them and the rest of us just trying to see who hand-picked their favourite people to have fun this game. I'm probably a bit jealous, but given how things turned out, I think it's fair to be.

A big element of twg is the randomness of the roles. It's the fact that anyone can ultimately end up in any situation. Knowing that I wasn't selected to have fun this game, sucks. Knowing there were people who knew everything that didn't care much (save for Xiz, honestly), sucks. Knowing that this made a week of my life a lot harder than it needed to be, sucks.

This whole thing was fun and unique before all these bullshit mastermind twists came in. Now, I just feel rubbish about this all and feel cheated out of what at least had potential to be fun. Sure, this was super unique, but the twist that was underlying the whole time ruined what I expect out of twg, and ruined what I expect from ffr twg.

I'm extremely disappointed. Sorry if this post comes off as rude, insensitive, ingrateful, or anything. This is just genuinely how I feel, and I needed to communicate it formally.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

^ I’ve had a lot of mental stress throughout this game, but Cel makes some very important points. While the game is not over, having the game kinda ripped out of towns hands like that would be super upsetting to me if I wasn’t involved in this.

I think it’s worth talking about in post game, but overall Cel I love you and I can understand how you feel.

If anyone gives shit to cel for these opinions I will negatively judge you.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I know sunfan made this game with love, I can tell. It’s hard because I understand both sides.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

+1 to Cels post.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I 100% understand where Cel is coming from and feel similarly about a lot of his points.

The fact that certain people had the ENTIRE game solved for them while the rest of us were in the complete dark just seems very unbalanced and unfair. Honestly I don't think I would have wanted to play as a know-it-all if I had gotten that role either. I would have done my best but that's such a weird role to play, like almost a wolf but not?

And what even was the point of having a wolf team other than having another group that has an advantage over the VTs? The game doesn't actually rely on catching the wolves at all

All in all this feels extremely unbalanced toward VTs at this point in time. And even toward the wolves because they are fighting against too powerful of an enemy.

If this is only a phase and something changes I will eat my words but right now... I did not enjoy this game format. I enjoyed playing with everybody and am making the best out of the game but I would not choose to play it again

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I wish it was spicy. imagine if xiz had told me at the beginning (we're neighbors) his role. that would've sped this game up a lot faster.
here I was thinking I was special *cries*

sorry I'm not looking at this thread, primarily talking in OOTC and 1 on 1. it saddens me to see the vanilla towns respond in this way. your feelings about it are valid, I just can't empathize. i strongly believe that even if I had rolled vanilla town, I would still have been excited and enthusiastic about this experience.

but alas. sunfan knew going into this that the game would be a very polarizing experience. I hear you, I do. I just find it difficult to swallow the cynicism when someone put a lot of effort into crafting this. if it's a shot and a miss, then that's ok. I simply can't agree with the conceit that everything vanilla town (and even regular wolves) did was pointless. I don't feel that way at all.

however you're 100% allowed to vent your feelings and frustrations in order to make future games better. and you don't need me to tell you that.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

You don't know me well at all then.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Ok first off

Xiz

Second, SunFan promise to talk about the mod account rule, so we should talk about how silly it is.

I get the idea behind this game and I 100% believe in Sun's head it was meant to end in a bang and a laugh but the timing for something this stressfull is....unfortunate.

I personally think this was not suitable for new players and wish new players weren't allowed to sign up. If we want new players then we should be running jTWGs for awhile.

Not specific to this game but I really feel modkills > replacements.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

1.) The mod rule is in place so we can't see invisible people (which is stupid, I agree).

2.) You're in luck then. I'm planning a jTWG after all this settles down.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I know why the mod rule is in effect
The rule should be that you're not allowed to be invisible on grounds that it's against the spirit of a social game

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I asked lar to bring it up because maybe its fine for mods to play on their normal account
just something we could talk about, I thought

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Since we're all airing out our grievances and whatnot... I have a somewhat different opinion than those of us who thought negatively on the game

1. I absolutely loved it, I thought it was a confusing giant ball of chaos of which I didn't want to end. Did I go completely insane? Yes, but that's kind of the point of a game like this.

2. I felt it was good for the newer players to have signed up for this shitshow, so that they are aware that games like this CAN, and DO happen on this site.

3. Let's not forget all the hard work Greg has put into this for all of us to enjoy.

Was I frustrated that everything town has done has amounted to not much? No, not at all. This game would have been VERY different if not for us. WE were the ones who lynched Storn and Xiz for example. Yes, Freezin' shot a few others but it doesn't discount the fact that we put in the work to get to this point. So saying it was all for nothing isn't exactly true from MY POV, as a VT.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

the problem is that you can't force players to not be on invisible mode. this site isn't just twg, it's a larger forum and it's not fair to dictate how players present themselves on this larger forum just for twg.

invisible mode is useful if you don't want to be stalked, watched, or otherwise observed when you don't want to be. it's a valuable function for a forum like this.

this is why I advocated for the mod rule--- because:

1) players should be allowed to be "invisible" as a matter of principle, but
2) mods are able to see "invisible" players, which creates an information imbalance

the mod rules was something I kept mentioning, but it didn't become real until a certain incident where a vBulletin feature was exploited to solve a game.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

the Wine in front of me game to be specific.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

the fact that people may or may not be on invisible at any time kinda prevents dumb "they were online/offline!!!" reads that are super annoying and pointless

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I would disagree with this, based on the notion that everything in a TWG can be considered as information... That's just my take on the matter

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

doesnt the fact that you can view as a guest totally negate all of this

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

It does lmao, it absolutely does.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I will note that that can't actually be turned off, and was also not a mod who discovered that.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

At least, I'm pretty sure it can't be turned off. I may have to chat with the admins to double check.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

If any of those are actually a concern then playing TWG at all is a bad idea lmao. TWG isn't a private group anymore anyone can see you post. Actually considering how a forum "like this" actually works, what you just said made no sense

If you're signing up for a public game where you post publicly, then the privacy having your name removed provides probably doesn't help.

And there's no nice way to accusse people of this but with you being the only noticable exception, I remember it was the lower posters who really campaigned for this back when. I don't really believe it was about privacy as a whole because that angle simply doesn't make any sense in how the site actually functions. People wanted to not get caught having time to check in on the game but then not contributing.

With the inactivity issue we have I'd rather have rules that encourageinteractions rather then provide cover.


You know, at least that doesn't inconvenience the mods

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

If you're really out here tryna go the extra mile to not get detected then I guess?

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

only if you logged out while viewing the thread, then logged in when posting. every. single. time.

quoting people would not be possible. this would not be a solution

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

well, quoting people by manually typing tags and copy/pasting their post from an in cognito window into ur post would be possible. but no

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

If privacy matters that much to you then you need to ne yhe one inconvenience, not the mods pr the people havinh to crosscheck two accounts when they ISO a mod because he undoubtedly forgot to switch accounts again

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

How would I go about sending a submission for guess? I presume, just DM game host on fiffer?

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Yes...

We may change our votes as many times as we desire for the 24 hours we have been allotted

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I recall having to do a lot of convincing people that this is necessary, so I don't remember it this way at all.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

in any case, don't post in this thread until the 24 hours are up.

please submit guesses to me via PM on discord, or on FFR (discord preferred)
you can change your mind as many times as you'd like.

good luck

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

The game is over

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

The Mastermind has avoided being guessed. The game is over and the Mastermind was...



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I do want to briefly address the people who are upset with the ending. Your feelings are all valid. I designed this game believing that some people would be unhappy with the ending. What I expected would be that it would motivate people to find the Mastermind. It really didn't, and people mostly didn't try super hard to think of the Mastermind (not generalizing everyone, just what I feel like I saw). I did want to make something memorable, something different, and I changed my original plans for this game, as can be seen by the fact that multiple signup threads became one.

I can understand where you're coming from. I hope that you did enjoy the game before the twist was revealed.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

final guesses were:

guesses
bolthy guesses bugkid
gold guesses force
charu guesses xiz
haku guesses force
kappa guesses xiz
lar guesses xiz
plop guesses blind
blind guesses raeko
freezin guesses xiz
storn guesses xiz
bugkid guesses xiz
xiz guesses blind
roundbox guesses force
force guesses fg/kayla
dbp guesses force
raeko guesses force
hope guesses xiz
star guesses haku
xel guesses force
shadow guesses xiz
kayla guesses plop
celery guesses force

no guess
cedo

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

This game has convinced me to make non-bastard games for the rest of my life, I think.
I might just not have it in me.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Good fuucking game McKenna... Holy shit

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

bastard games are fine as long as they are actually TWG

you went kinda crazyville here

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

at this point i literally don't care what anyone thinks, this is so exciting.

i'm so proud of mcdaddio dude... and i get that it's probably more exciting for me as her long-time friend whereas many of you are meeting her for the first time but... shit. good fucking game mckenna.

sunfan and mcdaddio, don't be discouraged. there will always be people who dislike these setups but i for one had a super good time, and this ending just makes it that much better for me. it wasn't perfect and i think other peep's criticism is good but don't stop experimenting because of it.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Sunfan, I will once again say that I am VERY happy with how this game turned out despite my cabin fever midgame.

This game was meant to be celebrated and played by us idiots and we sure as fuck played it with every intent to win

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I think the criticism of the game is valid.
I'm glad people enjoyed themselves, but I do think I should've left the mastermind out, maybe barred new players from playing in general.

The split game idea would've been maybe more worth pursuing; I didn't want to change back once I had gone ahead mentally with the single-game.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

gg McKenna

Thanks for the host, sunfan <3

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I have one particular critique, and that is that I'm extremely irate I got told to calm down on Kappa. I wasn't gonna fight with you about it mid-game, but you shouldn't have stepped in there. That interaction was heated, but absolutely tame. That tone did not, and cannot break the rules of TWG.

Just wanted to toss this out there. Don't really wanna talk on it further.

Also Kappa, thanks for being entertaining. I appreciate you.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

it was a mistake
kappa pmed me that it was a mistake too when I told him that I told xel to calm down

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

someone tried to disable it at one point and it didn't work, so yeah

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...mfcPVPWl4/edit

everyone's survey results

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

its not publicly accessible

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I dont thiml the fact the game was bastaedized was the problem. Based on the signup post, it sounded like the game was going to be "slightly" bastard, but otherwise play normally. I think the original game would've fit that slightly bastatdized catagory without being too bastard, a fairly normal twg game with a cool twist. But the second the mastermind was shown, it immeadiately became full bastard and i dont think thats what people were expecting, and it went past the limits for some exoecting a "normal" twg game with a few bastard mechanics.

I dont think the game was bad either. I love games like this and its these kinds of games that keep me interested in twg, but if thevexpectation going in was something more crazy, i dont thunk the criticism would've been quite as harsh.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

You need to make it so people with the link can view it

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

fixed

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Not every good idea pans out, don't be too hard on yourself.

For what it's worth I did get some enjoyment out of it, and knowing in hindsight that wolves would target themselves because they knew Game 2 was the important one makes me not feel so bad about wagonomics being mostly wrong.

Anyway, back to my cave.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

blind I will strangle you

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

funnygurl absolute GOAT

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I think there maybe was a bit too much going on with the setup

the two-game idea with the second one playing in reverse was really cool; the idea of a knowitall was really cool; the idea of having a neighbor was really cool; but all of these in the same game, along with the "true mastermind" idea, made everything pretty complicated to figure out.

most players ended up not having any agency over the game at all, which understandably made them upset. centering a game around a single player is a very hard thing to make satisfying for everybody, and the realization that everything was a farce certainly didn't help. I would most likely be in this boat if Freezin didn't end up leaking me this info in advance.

so yeah--- there were a lot of good ideas here individually, but there felt like a lack of cohesion because there was so much going on that didn't really "need" to be there and ended up being distracting

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I was personally expecting to be disillusioned with the game after it ended, but honestly the reveal that mcdaddio was the mastermind, and that every single other player LOST the game, was so out-of-left-field and ??? that it wrapped around and became awesome.

in hindsight, any other reveal would have probably pissed me off. but GG Nancy Drew, you deserve this

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I waited a day to post my overall thoughts:




sunfan: This game was beautiful. You evolved TWG, and I think that's being overlooked sadly. You ventured into new game territory and while there are some bugs, I would argue it was a very big success. The obvious has been stated already, but there are a few ways you could balance it, i'm sure you already have a bunch in mind. I think you should continue bastard games like this, success only comes after multiple failures. (Look at Cybernaut, I still have no idea what im doing but im evolving each time)



Considering how Tforce and I controlled most of the votes, we played to our original wincon so I consider that a win for both of us.


Mcdaddio: Well played, very well played. I would have guessed you on perhaps the 20th guess.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

TWG has been a big part of my life over the past 10 years, and I'm really glad to have met such a weird quirky community of people who I consider myself the closest with. This was a great milestone game to see how we all have grown over that time. Sure, some can argue the best times were years ago when we all were new to this game, however I think this is a great end of a chapter, and the start of a new one. Reading over everyones favorite moments of TWG, and see'n how many people have referenced me over the years is one of the most humbling and nicest compliments I have received in this lifetime, so thank you. I'm really glad to have gotten to know all of you <3

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I forgot to fill out the survey, but I was thinking about what I would have written for my favorite TWG moments and almost all of them were about you lmao.

Your 1-shot fireman claim was one of the funniest things to ever happen in a game, as was the "RIP storn d0" video. My favorite though is probably in the C9++ game where you rolled SK and it was F3 with you, me, and I think jrodd? And you forced me to draw a picture of my Marimo avatar in MS Paint and then used it as your avatar just to fuck with me. That was so good.

Honorable mention to the Lost Wolf game, where Jrodd and I didn't realize that Manti was our wolf partner and faked a red seer on him and he just.........

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Oh yeah, and the C9++ game where YoshL and I had a soulread on each other D0 and claimed our roles to each other using Touhou characters LOL

him saying "I'm Marisa C" to claim 1-shot doctor was just legendary and I still haven't gotten over it

EDIT: Speaking of doctor... Legit Doctor was so good. Fuck you, fakey

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

CHARU

good

places that don't exist are the best kinds of places

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

it's posts like this that make me feel so grateful to have been brought into this community. it's really full of wonderful and passionate people and I can't wait to keep playing!!!

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

gg

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

What a name, lmao

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

incredible name

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I wasn't even in that TWG game that I listed as my favourite moment. It should be required reading for anyone wanting to play TWG for how great of a game it is.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

In an effort to stick to what I said, I won’t drag this out really here, but it would be better to not take pages out of the book of Prawn Skunk.

Glad Kappa saw it truly for what it was, and it was a pleasure Kappa going with someone who is willing to sling back. :)

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

I still want to know what all the ??s stand for on the first chart.

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

and why were there so many reserved posts. we need answers!

Re: ymotohciD :daerhT emaG 002 GWT
 

Finally, straight from the horse's mouth, the neighbour graph's placements.
Based on the survey answers, players were placed based on:
Lawful graph, more of the same.