Originally Posted by stavie33 (Post 3033603)

Btw, what would you give Momentary Life? I honestly think that's the second hardest FMO next to Gymnastics, the speed, the trills, and the patterns make that songs insane. It's my worst FMO score by far.

Originally Posted by NekoGon (Post 3043681)

It stays as a mid-high FMO IMO. If you have speed, everything else except the trills is not really that difficult; if you can AAA that and the confusing(?) 12ths right after, you AAA the song. Harder FMOs would be Blooddrunk, RunnyMorning etc. etc. generally those songs that has been around a long time but with very few AAAs.

imo

Originally Posted by Niala (Post 3045404)

I think that Momentary Life is well placed. It's definitely a hard FMO, but I wouldn't call it an FGO. The hardest part of the song IMO is right at the start with the awkward jump section, besides that, the rest of it doesn't seem overly difficult. Some of the runs are kind of difficult, but it's really easy to mash a FC on them. Not quite the second hardest FMO, because IMO Silly Symphony is much harder to do well, not to mention Perfect Cherry Storm, but it's still a hard FMO.

Originally Posted by qqwref (Post 3045457)

Ideally it should be both, but in reality the difficulty is pretty much completely based on how hard it is to FC without mashing.

If we took AAAs into account, a lot of the early Synth files and rainbow-colored 8s and 9s would be well into VC territory. The first four difficulty 4 songs released have 107, 185, 187, and 188 AAAs; I know of several VCs with more AAAs than that (and which have been around for much less long). So clearly these are not 4s if we consider how hard it is to AAA. I think it's pretty clear that rating those songs as much higher (say 8-9) would be counterproductive, though, because then people would be going "I FC'd my first 8!" and it would be a Synthlight file. So because we have so many beginners on FFR it's better to keep those songs ranked at a low difficulty despite the fact that many top players consider them as hard to AAA as VCs or even FMO/FGO songs.

Maybe we need separate "difficulty" and "complexity" (or something... chaos?) ratings for songs. So the difficulty would be how hard the song actually is to play and the complexity would be how complicated the patterns are, that is, how hard it is to AAA the song.

Originally Posted by sc979 (Post 3045615)

There are 36 VC songs that have as much or more AAAs than SoSaSG right now.

Originally Posted by stavie33 (Post 3045509)

The line of when you enter 'pro' out of these two difficulties is when you can clean FC 3 FMO's. [...] But once you reach 'pro' level, or where I am, you should be able to clean FC or SDB every FMO and a few FGO's.

Originally Posted by stavie33 (Post 3045509)

When you reach 'pro', you'll realize the VC songs with a lot of AAA's are still much harder than the easy songs with nearly no AAA's, because it won't seem as hard now that you're better. But this is just my view on things

Originally Posted by qqwref (Post 3045687)

Right now I have 10 clean FMO FCs... but I think I'd have to be a lot better than I am now to FC every FMO or SDB any FGO [actually, wait, I have 8 boos on Ketsarku, but that doesn't count]. Your definitions are a bit off from each other.


I kind of agree with you there; however the VC songs with a lot of AAAs are typically not easy but rather "straightforward". By that I mean they're easy-to-read patterns (mostly stream and jumps) at a rather slow speed. So as long as you can keep on the beat and you can read/hit the notes, it shouldn't be all that difficult to AAA those songs. On the other hand, stuff like Synth files and TGWP (and piano files in general) is really tough to AAA because it's not at all straightforward - you have to basically be able to read the notes individually, and just keeping on the beat won't cut it. Files like those are often much easier than VC level in terms of raw difficulty (as in the speed and reading ability required to FC them) but quite tough to AAA because no matter how good you are at reading and hitting standard stream/jumpstream/jump/jack patterns you still have to be able to PA individual notes with pretty much random placements, which is IMO a separate skill which players won't get from just practicing stream songs. So... yeah, I'd definitely say a song like BB Euro or Cutting Circles is harder than SSSG or Legend of Zelda, but in some sense it's easier to AAA.

In addition, I think songs that are easier than VC actually have fewer AAAs than they deserve. What I mean is that if you put a specific song into FFR, and call it a low VC, it will have many more AAAs in a year than if you had called it a high C. I've noticed this a lot between Cs and VCs of similar difficulty and length. I think one reason is that songs of VC difficulty or higher look difficult enough to be worth trying, so people who have previously played SM and come to FFR are much more likely to give those a shot (and possibly AAA them) than to try easier songs. In addition a lot of VC+ songs are in the tier point list, so there's a real incentive for any player who CAN AAA a given VC+ to do it, whereas only some players will be willing to go AAA a random C (the same players who go AAA all the easy songs).

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX (Post 3052122)

I don't know if this was ever brought up But I'm inclined to ask.
Are the difficulties wrong or is Oni not unlockable on all FMO's as the token conditions "AAA a For Master's Only" state? Same thing with Heavy 'cept it's only like one song.
That was just looking at the list of public songs by the way.

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn (Post 3052126)

pretty much everyone wants the oni token to be unlockable by any FMO.