Suspicious scores thread

[Coolboyrulez0]

The concept of deleting posts that don't interfere with the established rules in an OPEN forum is asinine.

[All_That_Chaz]

Anaru's status is not the point of this thread. It's off-topic and only serves to start drama. I wouldn't delete posts without reading through the thread.

Originally Posted by aperson

This thread has a pretty clear purpose -- Find suspicious scores and analyze them

EDIT: If you have a problem with me, send me a PM. Uncivilly arguing with staff IS against against the established rules of this forum.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz

Anaru's status is not the point of this thread. It's off-topic and only serves to start drama.

Then move those posts to another thread and let the discussion continue. It's an important one to have because it concerns the high score boards, which are publicly visible and which affect the ranks of all active players. Deleting the posts sends two messages to us forum users:
1) the staff wants to sweep this issue under the rug; and
2) the staff thinks the deleted posts had no valuable content.

Honestly, I'm offended that at the first sign of anything controversial many mods reflexively nuke the whole discussion. Nobody learns from that and nothing gets fixed. The point of moderators is to improve the quality of discussion and make the forums a more inviting place, but the way you guys act, the effect is the opposite.

[All_That_Chaz]

1) We are not covering up anything. The staff is discussing the issue with Anaru.
2) That's not relevant. I could copy-paste a study on cancer treatments into a thread about cat pictures. It would have tons of valuable content, but the post would still be deleted because it was off-topic.

People are mad because I deleted their posts and they think I'm never on the site and don't know what's going on. I do plenty behind the scenes. Don't worry.

[TC_Halogen]

there's nothing off topic about what was deleted here, and there was no drama going on whatsoever. It was a matter of discussing what Anaru could do to fix his tarnished reputation as a player, and he was previously involved in the situation of "suspicious scores." If that merits deleted posts, then I suppose like 95% of this thread should be removed. Anaru has been getting banned/removed/etc. even though he's playing legitimately, and there are some people that believe he should be allowed to play again, and others that believe he should be blacklisted permanently because of his suspicious scores. Don't compare two hilariously off-topic subjects to two subjects that are relatively close.

As far as the discussion between qqwref and myself, I'd like to ask the same question to him again (and this concerns suspicious scores and blacklisting so if it gets deleted, then moderators are doing a bad job):

Considering there are a group of users that have access to the anti-cheat, and an even larger group of players that are willing to immediately report any sort of suspicious scores to this thread for verification, would it be such a bad idea to give people a second chance before burning their bridges?

(I am also aware of the Anaru having multiple accounts that he cheated on, but I'm talking about cheating in the past as a first chance altogether, and giving him a second chance after making his post/stand in this thread.)

EDIT: requesting undelete on posts that are relevant to Anaru because there might be a solution that both staff and users can come to; I mean, that's ridiculous to just remove posts that aren't even causing problems.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

As far as the discussion between qqwref and myself, I'd like to ask the same question to him again (and this concerns suspicious scores and blacklisting so if it gets deleted, then moderators are doing a bad job):

Considering there are a group of users that have access to the anti-cheat, and an even larger group of players that are willing to immediately report any sort of suspicious scores to this thread for verification, would it be such a bad idea to give people a second chance before burning their bridges?

Oh, that wasn't hypothetical? Here's my answer:

I think we should definitely give people second chances, but it's up to the people themselves how they deal with that. I actually see the ability to make an alt as a second chance already - someone has the ability to contact staff and community members and to make posts in their defense. The thing is, if we are going to trust people, they have to deserve that trust. When someone is friendly and open, and willing to prove themselves however they can, it's a no-brainer to let them play again (and this has happened before, to some high-level people too). But when someone has cheated multiple times, doesn't seem to feel bad about it, and is an ass to everyone he meets when he comes back in the site, there's no reason to give them any leeway. They're not adding anything beneficial to the community and it's pretty much a guarantee that we'll have to ban them yet again later on.

[MrPopadopalis25]

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz

People are mad because I deleted their posts and they think I'm never on the site and don't know what's going on. I do plenty behind the scenes. Don't worry.

that's not it at all. i don't know about the others, but i'm a little cheesed that whenever anybody brings up something that isn't being super positive in p much any thread it gets called drama and then either locked or deleted. just leave errything as is; deleting stuff is really stupid and makes the users here feel like kindergarteners.

[Mike Weedmark]

So many dramatic off-topic posts all because someone deleted a handful of undramatic on-topic posts in order to lower drama and stay on topic.

Anyway, I hope my post wasn't considered problematic. I was joking so hard. I probably never joked so hard. I 100% support anyone who wants to become a better person and asks for FFR's help, and that includes Anaru. BS scores aren't genocide. Forgive and forget within reason.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Oh, that wasn't hypothetical? Here's my answer:

1.) I think we should definitely give people second chances, but it's up to the people themselves how they deal with that. I actually see the ability to make an alt as a second chance already - someone has the ability to contact staff and community members and to make posts in their defense. [...]

2.) But when someone has cheated multiple times, doesn't seem to feel bad about it, and is an ass to everyone he meets when he comes back in the site, there's no reason to give them any leeway. They're not adding anything beneficial to the community and it's pretty much a guarantee that we'll have to ban them yet again later on.

Separated your points to address them separately.

I definitely agree with the first point, for sure. Anaru had a past with bending the rules and cheating in tournaments (and in actual play), and he definitely didn't deal with that correctly the first time. I mention the first time not as a single account, but rather an extended period of cheating, since his interest in cheating didn't change at all and he kept going for a little while.

However, Anaru seems to want to engage himself in the community again as an actual member, and he has been playing legitimately (as far as I can see through analysis). He's also contributing to the community by posting scores and submitting files, both to FFR and to SM (obviously not quite as relevant), and he gets bonus points from me because he's been RAPIDLY submitting to the DF tournaments. He also offered to help out with difficulty ratings and such for our custom engine. I'm completely understanding of there being a little bias at the end, but it shows that he's at least making an effort. Perhaps that effort will make a way over here to where people can appreciate it?

The last part of your second point definitely holds truth in any situation though; I firmly believe that harsh action should be taken if you're given a second chance and mess up again. Three strikes, and you're out.

[Reshiram]

Can someone tell me who .-. is?

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/.-./

Only 4 AAAs (Reality, Lolo included) and 39 FCs, but 96 tier points, plus a myriad of other insane FGO scores (11Eleven BF, top 20s on Devour, Jai Envie, grind2, Schmollbluk and La Campanella)

Seems a lot like a lack of effort due to obvious cheats. That or an alt. But I really just wanna make sure.

[flash dualist]

Originally Posted by Reshiram

Can someone tell me who .-. is?

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/.-./

That's 0.

[Reshiram]

Originally Posted by flash dualist

That's 0.

Ah gotcha, thanks.

But I think that on songs both usernames have played, one set of scores should be deleted, due to the whole 'alt-infested scoreboard' issue we wanna rectify.

[XxMidigamixX]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Then move those posts to another thread and let the discussion continue. It's an important one to have because it concerns the high score boards, which are publicly visible and which affect the ranks of all active players.

this. I think people remember on the forum awards where I brought up the point of saying that "Free ____" = ban was stupid~

on topic: Aside from this ordeal, wouldn't be better to have some sort of anti-cheat engine? iirc, wasn't there one like that for SMO? I'm not too sure, but something that would have at least the analysis thing built in so that whenever there's a huge hint of botplay or DS or anything that would deem it to be extremely suspicious it would automatically get reported to those that has the power to blacklist players? I doubt that there would be one anytime soon but it would be nice to have one of those in my honest opinion.

[nois-or-e]

A tool to perform such a task already exists and we use it...

Even if you don't save a replay, replay images are saved constantly by the site...

[DossarLX ODI]

The main problem is if the score gets hindered by misses due to combo scoring, if it's not a new personal best, and if it is before 1/5/11 (Velocity has an explanation to this).

[Reshiram]

I'm curious as to how replays are flagged. Do certain users get autoflagged or does the process go simply by heavy deviations from the norm and also flag unusually high level scores from newer users?

[popsicle_3000]

and what about r2 engine?

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by Reshiram

I'm curious as to how replays are flagged. Do certain users get autoflagged or does the process go simply by heavy deviations from the norm and also flag unusually high level scores from newer users?

Basically any personal best appears in the "flagged" section. Any engine will put plays into it (Velocity, Legacy, R^2). However, it is rather flawed as I have pointed out.

[~Zeta~]

Anaru did try to "be in the community" the last time he came back. That included making files, offering help to judge, etc. Still botted scores and be a dick to everyone.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I firmly believe that harsh action should be taken if you're given a second chance and mess up again.

Anaru *was* OHN's second chance.

I basically agree with the rest of your post. And it isn't always an easy judgment, but if he hadn't had such an attitude this time around I'd be a lot more willing to give it another try.