Reorganize the forum structure

[Pseudo Enigma]

is this possible at all? In general if feels kinda messy on the index. For example, I wouldn't expect to find Chit Chat under Introductions. I think it should get its own branch, since it's got 5 subforums now with the addition of Fitness.

Posting Izzy's suggestion here because it was also his idea to begin with.

Originally Posted by Izzy

* General Discussion
----Newbie
----Chit Chat
--------Ask Me Anything
--------Birthdays
----Tech Talk (renamed bits and bytes)
----Media
----Critical Thinking
----Sports and Fitness?
* Flash Flash Revolution
----General Talk
--------Song Permission
----Bugreport
----Suggestions
----Tournaments
----Brag Board
* Gaming
----General Video Games
----Music Games
----Stepmania
----Forum Games
* The Arts
----32-bit RGB (Should probably be renamed to better reflect its purpose)
----Musician’s Jungle Gym
----Literature
----The Werewolf Game

Also the title of forums and subforums don't need to have the words forum and subforum in them. Just by being where they are implies what they are. Like a subforum in the ffr category doesn't need to be doubly labeled FFR General chat. At least this is what makes the most sense to me for how to organize a forum.

Another point worth mentioning is pruning outdated stickies.

Discuss

[reuben_tate]

Having TWG in The Arts section is kind of interesting...

Edit: for the most part, I like this structure a lot better

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Having TWG in The Arts section is kind of interesting...

Edit: for the most part, I like this structure a lot better

You are right, it makes more sense to put it in gaming or a sub forum of forum gaming. I am unfamiliar with it and just kind of slapped it on at the end.

[gold stinger]

TWG is a forum game, should stay where all other forum games are imo as a subforum to the "forum games" subforum

[XelNya]

Izzy's Idea is cool but here's my approach. It moves things around, combines down a few things, and even adds a few things.

Chit Chat

- Newbie Forum
- Birthdays
- AMA
- General Media
- Sports
- Fitness

Why: One, putting "Chit Chat" in a section called "Introductions" looks really dumb. Just think about it. That said, it's the same ol' chit chat, just divided differently. It also moves "FFR Events" to where it should be, which is in the FFR section.

FFR Forums

- FFR Events
- FFR Tournament Subforum
- FFR General Talk
- Simfile Batches / Permissions
- FFR Bug-reports and Suggestions
- Multiplayer Plaza
- Spin It Up

* Italicized sections are sub-forums.

Why: It moves FFR related topics into the same section. It adds a much more defined place for batch discussion and makes the threads easier to find. It also gets rid of the permissions sub-forum which would be much more appropriate to keep to the universal thread in the first place. Now why is the brag board being moved? Well honestly, we have players who play a multitude of games that aren't just FFR related. It's time to sort through this messy section of the forums.

Brag Board

- FFR Scores
- Stepmania Scores
- Osu! Scores
- General Game Brag Board

Why: I don't feel a need to explain this. These are the most popular games I could add to this. Why is League of Legends / other MOBAs excluded? Honestly you guys tend to just have a general discussion thread. I mean there has to be some sort of control as to how specific this forum section gets.

Gaming

- General Gaming
- Forum Games
- TWG
- General TWG Discussion
- TWG Archives
- Game Voting
- Ongoing Games

* Italicized sections are sub-forums.

Why: I don't think we need to go really in depth here division wise. General gaming can be for most everything (think of it as the Chit Chat for games if you will) while it still divides out things others may not care for such as forum games, and TWG. It also gives TWG a better way to archive and sort threads. TWG is not just a forum game. It's a lot bigger than you'd think, and you need to play it to understand this.

Simfiles

- Packs
- Graphics
- General Feedback
- Simfile Releases

Why: Honestly I think this section is needed to get people talking about it publicly more. A lot of simfile information is hard to find, and getting feedback is a nightmare. I think this would help the process of getting more users into it, and getting help in their projects.

Art and Music

- General Art
- Music
- Musicians' Jungle Gym
- Music And Audio Production Critique
- Literature

Why: It just makes more sense to sort it this way. If you want to talk about Anime or a movie you saw honestly it makes more sense to post it in CC rather than here. It also has left you room to where if you want to talk about art in terms of anime or cinematography or photography, you can as it doesn't specify against this.

TGB

- Legendary Threads

Why: The trash men came. This is the dump.

Just my two cents though.

[Silvuh]

I don't think "Life" needs to go to the top to leave Arts separate. Because this is the FFR forum, I don't think the top of the board should have all the general discussion boards. Except for Chit Chat, because it's the big one. Introductory and Official Event threads are the only other ones I think need to be above general FFR discussion, because that's what users should see first. Boards are organized from specific to general and how relevant it is to the site between boards (News > FFR > Stepmania > Other Games > Art > Other Discussion) and inside boards (Music Games > Other Games).

And yeah, the name "Introductions" really only fits the Newbie board, so that's an unnecessary label. Because official events should be at the top as a "this is a pretty important board" thing, user events are split into the FFR section. Birthdays and AMAs don't need to be above FFR discussion, but they fit as subforums of Chit Chat.

Not sure what a good name for this first forum would be, because "General Discussion" is the "Life" of Life & Arts.

> For New Users & Introductions
> Official News & Events
--- Tournaments
> Chit Chat
--- Ask Me Anything
--- Birthdays

The next group itself is "FFR General Discussion", so that doesn't need to be its own board with too many subforums. Bugs & Suggestions should in some way be split between the game and site, whether they're subforums of a Bugs & Suggestions board or split between Game and Site boards.

Flash Flash Revolution
> Game Discussion
--- Songs & Permissions
--- Contested Difficulties
> Site Discussion
--- Profiles
--- Radio
> Game & Site Development
--- Game Bugs & Suggestions
--- Site Bugs & Suggestions
> User Events
--- Tournaments
> Multiplayer Plaza
> Spin it Up

I do like the suggestion of giving the Brag Board its own section with forums for those games. Simfiles & Stepmania getting its own board is a good idea, too, because of how much more involvement our community has in it compared to general video game discussion. (I don't have these listed, because they'd look just like Middie's suggestions. Except I think Stepmania should be above general gaming.)

Participating in forum games and playing video games are totally different things, so those should be in separate boards. Or, really, if it's just named "Video & Forum Games", that works too, because "Gaming" implies "Video Gaming" to me. And even though TWG is about the art of deception and not being an idiot and is way more intricate than other forum games, it still is a forum game and not a video game or an art in the same sense as the others.

Alternatively, "Gaming" could be a board within Life & Arts with a Music Games subforum. But I think it works to have Music Games closer to the FFR and Stepmania boards.

Gaming
> Music Games
> General Video Games

Forum Games
> The Werewolf Game
--- subforums
> Other Forum Games

For titles of Arts board, they should either all be simplified ("Art" and "Music") or the simply-named ones should be given more quirky names. Consistency.

Because in art boards, you can talk about your own endeavors and the works of others, they would all have to be separated so an Arts section would be specifically one's own work and Life be any talk about other works. I was thinking "Tech Talk" and "Bits & Bytes" sound like a general versus individual tech forum. But the other art boards aren't split, so this one shouldn't be either. So I don't think Life & Arts needs to be split.

... Oh, I totally didn't even notice the Music and Audio Production Critique subforum. Other art boards may as well have that, too. At least art should, because that's a thing we do for SM files (so literary critique isn't as necessary). Though I don't think anyone wants to go through thousands of threads to sort existing critique threads into those subforums. I would if I could, haha.

"Fitness" sounds like something that could go into sports, because they're both physical activities. If they should be kept separate, it should be "Health & Fitness". The Sports board could also be renamed to something more quirky, but I don't have any ideas.

I think Music should be at top because this is a rhythm gaming website, and the rest can kind of be ordered by activity.

Life & Arts
> Musician's Jungle Gym
--- Music and Audio Production Critique
> HDTV 1080p (media board, renamed to match the art board)
> 32-Bit RGB
--- Art and Graphics Critique
> Bits & Bytes
--- Programming Help
> Reader's Corner (literature board, renamed to match the music board)
> Critical Thinking
--- Homework & Information
> Sports
> Health & Fitness

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Silvuh

Because in art boards, you can talk about your own endeavors and the works of others, they would all have to be separated so an Arts section would be specifically one's own work and Life be any talk about other works. I was thinking "Tech Talk" and "Bits & Bytes" sound like a general versus individual tech forum. But the other art boards aren't split, so this one shouldn't be either. So I don't think Life & Arts needs to be split.

My suggestion was to remove bits and bytes in replacement of tech talk or any name for a general technology board and to specifically have it near the top for general discussion. This would be nearly as broad of a category as chit chat and the point is that all technology related chit chat threads would simply be in tech talk instead.

You have threads about mechanical keyboards, laptop recomendations in chit chat that should all be in a technology board that isn't obscure with a misleading name.

[Zageron]

As a heads up, this process is not difficult at all. Come to some sort of consensus with some good reasoning, and it can be done in 10 minutes.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Silvuh

Forum Games
> The Werewolf Game
--- subforums
> Other Forum Games

Life & Arts
> Musician's Jungle Gym
--- Music and Audio Production Critique
> HDTV 1080p (media board, renamed to match the art board)
> 32-Bit RGB
--- Art and Graphics Critique
> Bits & Bytes
--- Programming Help
> Reader's Corner (literature board, renamed to match the music board)
> Critical Thinking
--- Homework & Information
> Sports
> Health & Fitness

I hadn't thought of the games section in that way, when I get back from lunch I'll skim over my list again.

Honestly quirky names such as "Bits & Bytes" really annoy me. It might be my super blunt nature but just thinking of what it's for is a waste to me. I'd rather just call it something to do with what you put there (TLDR: Descriptions as names are much better to me so long as it's notm super long.)

I guess adding Fitness and Sports to life and the arts is cool. I don't mind that one too much at all. Seems a bit more fitting for everyone else.

Originally Posted by Zageron

As a heads up, this process is not difficult at all. Come to some sort of consensus with some good reasoning, and it can be done in 10 minutes.

D:

Hero

[Silvuh]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Honestly quirky names such as "Bits & Bytes" really annoy me. It might be my super blunt nature but just thinking of what it's for is a waste to me. I'd rather just call it something to do with what you put there (TLDR: Descriptions as names are much better to me so long as it's notm super long.)

My idea was that the forum name could be quirky and then the description would clarify it all in the vein of 32-Bit RGB, rather than giving boards boring names with boring descriptions like Literature. Either way, there wouldn't be a question about what a board is for if it's done well.

Originally Posted by Izzy

My suggestion was to remove bits and bytes in replacement of tech talk or any name for a general technology board and to specifically have it near the top for general discussion. This would be nearly as broad of a category as chit chat and the point is that all technology related chit chat threads would simply be in tech talk instead.

You have threads about mechanical keyboards, laptop recomendations in chit chat that should all be in a technology board that isn't obscure with a misleading name.

Yeah, I understood this. Bits & Bytes sounds more like a specialized forum, just like 32-Bit RGB sounds like it's for digital art when the description says it includes traditional art, too. Even if the title looks misleading, the description will clarify it, but the current description of Bits & Bytes doesn't cover as much as it should. I have no qualms against "Tech Talk" (it's more fun than just "Technology") and I agree that the tech-related Chit Chat threads should go there, but I used "Bits & Bytes" in my previous post because I treated all the Arts boards as getting specific names with general descriptions. So if we do change the tech board to "Tech Talk", the art board should be something like "Artists' Alley" to not leave traditional art out of its title.

If everyone else thinks general discussion boards should go at the top before FFR-specific boards, then, alright. I just think that, because this is FFR, the FFR-specific boards are uniquely relevant to the site and should be at the top. (My plan had Chit Chat at the top, and really, that could be moved to the top of Life & Arts near the bottom.)

On a scale between "Life" and "Arts", the boards I listed in that section go like this to me:

Life = Health & Fitness (health is about your life) > Critical Thinking (lots of topics about life) > Sports (not very arty) > Tech Talk, Media (both contain very general topics but could also be about creative endeavors, like programming and filming documentaries) > Music (lots of talk about people's own music and the music of others on here) > Art (has some general topics like the Photography Thread) > Literature (mostly people posting their own work) = Art

All the more arty boards to have the potential to include more general topics, but they're just not used that way. So as in Izzy's suggestion, if any Art boards have to go at the bottom, Literature, Art, and Music would be there. But because Tech Talk and Media are a gray area, it makes it harder to split them all between Life and Arts. Though I guess I would put Tech Talk and Media in Life/General Discussion just because that fits in more with how the boards have been used rather than their potential. Which still leaves the question of putting all General Discussion boards at the top above FFR-specific stuff or closer to the bottom after Stepmania stuff (but only I seem to think they should go lower, anyway.)

Hm. Oh, and if Gaming and Forum Gaming are split, I think Forum Gaming should be at the bottom, but really just because I don't want Art to be the very last thing on there, haha.

Anyone else think other boards like Tech and Art should have a critique/help subforum like Music does?

(In my previous post, I put the apostrophes before the S on Musicians' Jungle Gym and Readers' Corner because, for some reason, I had read the board name on the forum as "Musician's Jungle Gym" and thought "Huh, it shouldn't be a gym for just one musician, but I'll go with it," but now I see that the apostrophe is in fact after the S, so, yeah, whoops.)

[ryuyasha]

Originally Posted by Silvuh

I just think that, because this is FFR, the FFR-specific boards are uniquely relevant to the site and should be at the top.

Have not looked to see what is or is not changed yet, but since it looks like you are still taking input, so much this please.

[PrawnSkunk]

Originally Posted by ryuyasha

Have not looked to see what is or is not changed yet, but since it looks like you are still taking input, so much this please.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/

go see what has or has not changed yet

[Izzy]

In my opinion there should be as little boards as possible that cover all of the types of threads that will get made here. There is no point in having subforums that have 10 threads. It isn't hard to follow a few threads a day in a section in a broad category.

[idoler]

most importantly where does the new garbage bin fall into this??????



\\synthlight fulfil myt fantasy

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by idoler

most importantly where does the new garbage bin fall into this??????



\\synthlight fulfil myt fantasy

not on the list so it's gone :O
sike

[Zageron]

"sike"

[XelNya]

Bumping this because it's still a great idea.

I reorganized my list a bit. I still loathe the idea of quirky names, I think if you wanna do something quirky the description is more accurate since the title is blunt enough you won't need it much anyways.

Chit Chat

- Chit Chat
- Newbie Forum
- Birthdays
- AMA

- General Media
- Critical Thinking

* Italicized sections are sub-forums.

FFR Forums

- FFR Events
- FFR Tournament Subforum
- Songs Of The Week

- FFR General Talk
- Simfile Batches / Permissions
- FFR Bug-reports and Suggestions

- Multiplayer Plaza
- Spin It Up

* Italicized sections are sub-forums.

Brag Board

- FFR Scores
- Stepmania Scores
- Osu! Scores
- General Game Brag Board

Simfiles

- Simfile Packs
- Graphics
- General Feedback
- Single Releases

Forum Games

- Forum games

- TWG
- General TWG Discussion
- TWG Archives
- Game Voting
- Ongoing Games

* Italicized sections are still sub-forums.

Gaming

- Gaming
- Rhythm Games
- Other games

* Italicized sections are still sub-forums.

Life And The Arts

- Arts
- Music
- Musicians' Jungle Gym
- Music And Audio Production Critique

- Literature

- Life
- Sports
- Fitness

* Italicized sections are still beating a dead horse.

TGB

- Legendary Threads

* Poor horse.


Added:

- Silvuh's suggestion of how to seperate the gaming forum was kinda hard to argue against.

- Clarification to lots of spots.

- SOTW subforum. They happen enough. They're their own thing.

- Modified "Life And The Arts."

- Rearranged the list to more accurately reflect the exact pattern I think it should go. I had not done this the first time.

I'm still struggling how to not make the Gaming section look worthless. It needs it's own place but I am super unsure how to make it look.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by XelNya

I'm still struggling how to not make the Gaming section look worthless. It needs it's own place but I am super unsure how to make it look.

This is why I think it makes sense to just have a gaming forum with forum games as one of the categories if all of those those other things are going to be subforums anyway. Otherwise just make them top level forums.

I am also going to strongly stand behind the idea of putting a tech board near the top next to chit chat.

[Zageron]

These are the rough changes that are going to be made to the forum layout. If anyone has any last minute suggestions, then please let me know. As a disclaimer, we used all of the suggestions made thus far in our decisions.

---

Flash Flash Revolution (Flash Flash Revolution Game/Site Related Forums)
FFR Events
-- Tournaments (FFR Tournaments Subforum) {Prefix: [Open], [In Progress], [Concluded]}

FFR General Talk
-- Bug Reports and Suggestions
-- Songs of the Week
-- Artist Permissions (FFR Songs/Permissions Subforum)
-- Contested Chart Difficulties

Brag Board {Sticky Score Threads: FFR, Stepmania, Osu!, Spin It Up}
FFR Profiles

-----
General Discussion
Introductions (Newbie Forum)
Chit Chat
-- Birthdays
-- Ask me Anything AMA

Critical Thinking
Tech Talk (Bits and bytes)
Forum Games (“Game” Threads)
-- The Werewolf Game
-- TWG Archives

Musicians’ Jungle Gym
Art and Graphics (32-Bit RGB)
Music Games
-- Stepmania
-- Simulator Files

Video Games (General Video Games)
Films and Television (Media)
Health and Fitness
Sports
Homework and Information (Homework & Help)
Writing and Literature (Literature)

-----
The Garbage Bin
The Garbage Bin
-- Legendary

[Kraezymann]

Just wondering if any of the forum descriptions will be rewritten? I'm not suggesting it or anything, I'm just curious.

Also in the description for the TWG forum there is a end quote missing