TWG XX: Humans win

[aperson]

Okay, I have been suspect that Tass might be pulling this. However, the problem is, the only way Tass could be sure of this success is for him to know that either EB or Talisman was the whore, there would be no way for him to know if Hans was the whore or not.

So how then, if Tass is a wolf, how do they know who the whore is while we don't? The only logical way would be for either eb or talis to have came forward to a wolf and given up their role... and both players are too smart to do this.

This is why I trust Tass, but I also do have a sneaking suspicion that LD is being serious, also thanks to Mead's Fucking Retarded® vote we are getting too close to an instalynch for comfort, therefore I am going to Null vote and take my vote off of LD.

[aperson]

Nevermind, here's the logic: Take your fucking votes off of LD, we're aobut to get in a sticky situation folks.

Phonem Recursive: ...bingo
lightdarkness42: why in the world would the voyer see them on a night 2
lightdarkness42: so it's an easy kill
Phonem Recursive: bingo fucking bingo
Phonem Recursive: You know dude, I think you're exactly right
lightdarkness42: Thank you
Phonem Recursive: So the situation is Tass is the master
Phonem Recursive: the prostitute sleeps with Tass, which is damn well inevitable
lightdarkness42: that is the only way he'd come out
Phonem Recursive: Because that's who I would've slept with
Phonem Recursive: Tass returns human, the prostitute says 'hey, I'm the prostitute'
Phonem Recursive: Tass kills them that night and then comes out as the prostitute with a bogus wolf
Phonem Recursive: And he chooses you because you've been suspicious
Phonem Recursive: He very well could've chosen me too
lightdarkness42: but....
lightdarkness42: You can talk your way out of it
lightdarkness42: Tass knows i'm an easy target

[GuidoHunter]

ap, for the 239586234872634th time, you can't retract a vote once you've placed one.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[aperson]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

ap, for the 239586234872634th time, you can't retract a vote once you've placed one.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

fine, fittvåffla (I'm swearing in other languages now so chardish can't get all catholic on me), I vote aperson until I hash this situation out.

[aperson]

There's no doubt about it anymore. If LD has played me this well he is the smartest god damn wolf I have ever met.

Tasselfoot, that was a very nice try... hell, I wouldn't be surprised for you to try this if the whore was still alive, but it's the end of the road for you buddy.

[Kilgamayan]

Vote switch to random-choice nforcer for now since he's not a part of the situation and I want to retreat to a neutral position while I think this over.

[TSAGod]

Hm...there are really three options with what Tass did.

1.) He really is the whore, and ld really is a wolf...that seems somewhat unlikely.

2.) He's a wolf, and ld is just an easy target. That's also something that could have happened.

3.) He's a human, wants to get rid of ld for any reason, pretends to be the whore, and then realizes that he'll likely get wolfed anyway, and at least wants to see if he can get a wolf when he gets wolfed. I'm kinda liking this possibility for its sheer randomness, even though its probably really far off.

I personally think that getting rid of LD may be the smartest move now, even if he isn't a wolf and Tass isn't the whore. Once we get rid of him, the wolves will probably lynch Tass over the night if he is the whore in reality, and then the voyeur will watch him. If he is alive, after that, then we should go ahead and lynch him. If he's not, we can wait for the voyeur to come out. Unless Tass is a plain vanilla green, which is kinda stupid, we'd definately be getting rid of one wolf over the next two days.

[aperson]

Originally Posted by TSAGod

3.) He's a human, wants to get rid of ld for any reason, pretends to be the whore, and then realizes that he'll likely get wolfed anyway, and at least wants to see if he can get a wolf when he gets wolfed. I'm kinda liking this possibility for its sheer randomness, even though its probably really far off.

I personally think that getting rid of LD may be the smartest move now, even if he isn't a wolf and Tass isn't the whore. Once we get rid of him, the wolves will probably lynch Tass over the night if he is the whore in reality, and then the voyeur will watch him. If he is alive, after that, then we should go ahead and lynch him. If he's not, we can wait for the voyeur to come out. Unless Tass is a plain vanilla green, which is kinda stupid, we'd definately be getting rid of one wolf over the next two days.

What the hell? No really, what the hell? You have the most poorly thought out strategy I've seen. Also, #3 is stupid, and you have no idea how Tass plays. He does not make 'random' decisions, everything Tass does is cold and calculated.

I personally don't think it's the smartest move. I think one of these 2 players is a wolf, and I for damn sure don't want to choose the one that's a human to kill today.

[FishFishRevolution]

I'm going to drop a vote on Tass because I should've back in my last post anyway.

My vote makes three, but just as I said with LD, we've got three days, let's not instalynch anyone until we're sure.

[QreepyBORIS]

Three days, Fish? I thought the time limits were 48 hours for each day. Or do you mean game days? That would make no sense. Point being, we do still have plenty of time (either way you slice it).

Since there is a decent amount of time, I'm going to hold off voting for now. I have my share of suspicions and more at this point, and I think I know who I might want to vote against, but I don't want to be so hasty so early in the day.

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by QreepyBORIS

Three days, Fish? I thought the time limits were 48 hours for each day. Or do you mean game days? That would make no sense. Point being, we do still have plenty of time (either way you slice it).

Since there is a decent amount of time, I'm going to hold off voting for now. I have my share of suspicions and more at this point, and I think I know who I might want to vote against, but I don't want to be so hasty so early in the day.

aka

I don't feel like posting

[TSAGod]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Considering the odd time of this post going up, I'm going to extend the day to end at 2200 CST on Saturday. That'll give you almost three full evenings of discussion. For the future, I'll just arbitrarily assign deadlines within the bounds of reason.

Qreepy, there's your three days.

Originally Posted by aperson

I think one of these 2 players is a wolf, and I for damn sure don't want to choose the one that's a human to kill today.

Without a psychic, we have no idea if ld has just somehow played you good. While highly unlikely, it still is possible. If ld is the wolf and we kill Tass, we have no feedback as to whether or not ld is in fact human. We'd just assume that, and we'd still be in trouble, as it even is possible that both of them are wolves, and they staged this to distance themselves, and sacrifice themselves to make one definately human in the eyes of the humans. If we keep Tass alive, on the other hand, the wolves would probably lynch him if he is the prostitute, and if he is a wolf, they'd probably leave him alone. And then we could get him the next day.

So, basically, I don't want to get this wrong and then forget about fixing it.

[nforcer06164]

TSA, Tass would NEVER sacrifice himself or another wolf to appear human. It likely wouldn't work anyway; just look at what happened to TPS last game.

I really don't know what to think. Both arguments are pretty convincing to me. I'll leave my vote where it is to keep the balance while I think this over.

[JurseyRider734]

I'm highly considering putting my vote on Fish. Ever since the game started, he seems to just be following everything everyone else says, and voting the same as aperson or hops on to any bandwagon that starts. He voices how to not instalynch people all the time, but yet has been involved in the bandwagons that have happened (both eb and LD, I think. Now Tass?). Also, that near slip-up where I think he just saved his ass looks somewhat condemning too. With the whole "You nabbed me." thing. In the jTWG where he was a wolf and won, he sent out the mystery PM saying he was a blue. Then in that IM he told ap he was a blue but with ap's tricks, he quickly said he wasn't. I'm not sure what to think, there's many possible candidates for my vote but i'll hold off until tomorrow or Saturday.

I also have to keep doing my homework >_>

[FishFishRevolution]

Originally Posted by JurseyRider734

I'm highly considering putting my vote on Fish. Ever since the game started, he seems to just be following everything everyone else says, and voting the same as aperson or hops on to any bandwagon that starts. He voices how to not instalynch people all the time, but yet has been involved in the bandwagons that have happened (both eb and LD, I think. Now Tass?). Also, that near slip-up where I think he just saved his ass looks somewhat condemning too. With the whole "You nabbed me." thing. In the jTWG where he was a wolf and won, he sent out the mystery PM saying he was a blue. Then in that IM he told ap he was a blue but with ap's tricks, he quickly said he wasn't. I'm not sure what to think, there's many possible candidates for my vote but i'll hold off until tomorrow or Saturday.

I also have to keep doing my homework >_>

When I voted for eb, it was so that aperson wouldn't get lynched if the day were to end as it was when I voted. My vote made it 3 and 3, even.

I never voted for LD.

I've been talking about Tass as my suspicion all along, you can check all my posts. When I saw the bandwagon against LD, I wasn't going to make a decision until I talked to at least one of the two parties. After talking to LD, I was pretty much convincing Tass was a fake, so I posted:

Here's what I don't understand. If LD is a wolf, why talis? Why Hans? It doesn't fit, LD would not have killed Hans when he had both aperson and Tass to choose from as well. It doesn't fit.

to try and get the other line of thought going.

I sent a fake PM that I was a blue to confuse people in jTWG. Hold on let me say that again: FAKE PM, meaning from an anonymous user. It didn't even connect to me until the post-game. Not the same line of thought at all.

[TSAGod]

Originally Posted by nforcer06164

TSA, Tass would NEVER sacrifice himself or another wolf to appear human. It likely wouldn't work anyway; just look at what happened to TPS last game.

Just one question: Has Tass ever had to leave a game for an extended period of time before, without guaranteed internet access?

[Tasselfoot]

Actually, I have full internet access here in Texas. So... I'm back. AIM, Forums, everything.

Originally Posted by LD

That's a stupid question.

Tass comes out and says he is the whore or whatever, so obviously he knows the real whore is dead, or is just taking a stab at this.

Why would tass reveal his "role" when he probably could have gotten all you blind sighted guys to follow him in lynching me?

SINCE WHEN HAS TASS EVER WANTED A QUICK LYNCH, granted he has this "indisputible proof", but haven't we all known people to try stuff like this? HE DID IT WHILE I WAS IN SCHOOL, AND HE KNEW THAT. He wanted a damn quick instalynch so I could rebutt his claims.

Tass is really pissing me off today.

I think the main thing that I can say in my "defense" is that no one else has come forward.... that doesn't prove anything? Same logic I used when I was the vigilante and came out. The theory of me being the MW and eb or talisman coming to me is dumb. I'd hope if someone else was the whore (or the seer in any other game), they would have the common sense to NOT tell the person they seered who they are until day 2. That way, IF one of the 2 people seen was the MW, they have the other has semi-protection or revenge. I followed this strategy and did not inform the person who I slept with night 1. I'll be doing that now, as everyone already knows who I am, but that person still doesn't know they are more trustworthy IMO than the rest of you. Considering there is now 1 unknown wolf and 1 unknown MW, assuming eb wasn't one or the other.


Plus...

Originally Posted by nForcer

TSA, Tass would NEVER sacrifice himself or another wolf to appear human. It likely wouldn't work anyway; just look at what happened to TPS last game.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by TSAGod

Just one question: Has Tass ever had to leave a game for an extended period of time before, without guaranteed internet access?

No. I've been lynched before (as a human) while riding the train between Philly and NY... a time of about 2-3 hours when I was away from my computer. Then again, its a moot point, as I do have access, and I am here defending my extremely valid and SOLID argument.


At the same time... I post saying "nobody else has come out", and I can just see tomorrow rolling around and someone being like, "loloz... I saw Tass! WOOOOLLLLFFFFFFFFF". And my answer would be... "Why did it take you over 24 hours to come out with this?". Exactly. Don't even try it in a foolish attempt to save LD. You'd only get a 2nd wolf revealed and killed.

Going to read the thread again, probably come up with more to say.

[Tasselfoot]

Oh yea... Forgot something in the LD quote above: everytime I've been apart of an alliance and we've pegged a wolf I've wanted a quick day. In fact, I OFTEN want a quick day, because I like getting as much information as possible, and to me, wolf killings are more valuable than 2-3 extra pages of bickering, which is often times what end of the day posts are. Look at last game. I pushed for a few instas because I knew the person I was pushing for was going to die, and I didn't want to wait. I wanted that wolf kill to have more info on the next day (if there was a next day at that point) to make a better decision.

Phonem Recursive: ...bingo
lightdarkness42: why in the world would the voyer see them on a night 2
lightdarkness42: so it's an easy kill
Phonem Recursive: bingo #$#ing bingo
Phonem Recursive: You know dude, I think you're exactly right
lightdarkness42: Thank you
Phonem Recursive: So the situation is Tass is the master
Phonem Recursive: the prostitute sleeps with Tass, which is damn well inevitable
lightdarkness42: that is the only way he'd come out
Phonem Recursive: Because that's who I would've slept with
Phonem Recursive: Tass returns human, the prostitute says 'hey, I'm the prostitute'
Phonem Recursive: Tass kills them that night and then comes out as the prostitute with a bogus wolf
Phonem Recursive: And he chooses you because you've been suspicious
Phonem Recursive: He very well could've chosen me too
lightdarkness42: but....
lightdarkness42: You can talk your way out of it
lightdarkness42: Tass knows i'm an easy target

I addressed the 2nd part of this above.... the first part confused me. Where did the voyeur come in exactly?


Lastly... the way I see it, ap and I are both still alive to a) guarentee a kill by not catching the voyeur (is that what you meant in the 1st part?) and b) to keep suspicions on us, which at this point, I'm damn thankful happened.

and c) I damn hope all of this puts pressure on the wolves to keep me alive ANOTHER night, for fear of the voyeur.

Frankly, why the hell am I having to defend myself so much? If Jurs or TSA or Kilga even came out with this shit, nobody would have batted an eye. But when I do some good work (again).... I gotta go through backflips to get anything done. Jeez. Hell, above everything else... what nForcer said is definately the most true statement said. You guys know how I play this game. I won't risk my life on suicide, period.

[nforcer06164]

TSA, if my memory serves me correctly, I believe he has left for some time before, but never immediately following a situation like this.

And Tass, I was only defending you on the basis that you wouldn't sacrifice another wolf. Killing a blue and pretending to be that blue is something that would work very well for you. There's almost no risk involved. Unfortunately for you, I'm more inclined to believe LD at this point, because I've NEVER seen him react so radically to an accusation.

Here's the TWG excerpt of a lengthy conversation I had with LD yesterday night:

• nforcer06164: by the way, why are you not a wolf?
  nforcer06164: =P
  lightdarkness42: cause tass is a fucking douche
  lightdarkness42: I've been through this with several people
  lightdarkness42: but bassicly
  lightdarkness42: my defense is that I called him on the phone
  lightdarkness42: recorded the call
  lightdarkness42: and in that call, he doesn't make any comments, he avoids everything
  lightdarkness42: he says "I don't want to say anything that you might post on the ofurms that isn't true"
  lightdarkness42: I mean, come on
  lightdarkness42: btw: Can't post the mp3, TWC denied it
  nforcer06164: shoot.
  nforcer06164: so, what do you think of the prostitute, then?
  lightdarkness42: well
  nforcer06164: is the prostitute just dead?
  lightdarkness42: aperson and I speculated
  lightdarkness42: that tass or another wolf was slept with
  lightdarkness42: prostitute went to them
  lightdarkness42: and it's just a free kill
  lightdarkness42: Tass is most certainly a likely sleep target
  lightdarkness42: and he is a wolf, so he's got a 33% chance of being master
  lightdarkness42: so thats a good chance.
  nforcer06164: true.
  nforcer06164: I'll have to think it over.
  nforcer06164: But I've NEVER seen you react like that to an accusation before.
  lightdarkness42: well
  lightdarkness42: I'm human
  lightdarkness42: someone's calling me a wolf
  lightdarkness42: they made up proof
  lightdarkness42: and i'm pissed
  nforcer06164: and given the evidence, I'm more inclined to believe you than Tass.
  lightdarkness42: Danke
  nforcer06164: Well, Tass was just like, "Oh, I slept with him, he's a wolf."
  lightdarkness42: and it's rather convienient that he's going away
  lightdarkness42: and won't have access to a computer
  lightdarkness42: He's like "oh, I hope you instalynch him quick"
  nforcer06164: And I thought, "oh, Tass wouldn't do something so stupid as to fake it, it must be true."
  lightdarkness42: why not "Wait as logn as you can, so I can be back for some of the next day"
  nforcer06164: right.

I'm really sold on the idea that the prostitute came out to Tass, and Tass killed them, allowing him to fake his way through some of the game. He would "unfortunately" not find a wolf for the next few nights, and by then it'd be too late for us to do anything but believe him, resulting in a human loss. Also, I think that if LD was a wolf he'd go after aperson or Tass, or suggest it to the other wolves. The only risk there is the voyeur. And then there's the phone conversation, which Tass seems to have conveniently forgot.

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

I hope that I come back home and find myself alive. I hope that the voyeur will do his duty and peep at me while I'm sleeping with guys, so that if the remaining wolves (or wolf) kill me, you'll be there to avenge me. But, I hope the threat of the voyeur is enough to keep me alive, especially if there is only 1 wolf left.

------------------------------------------

Also, I'm assuming there will be a fairly quick insta on LD, and as such I've already submitted my next 2 sleepings with Guido so that I don't go lonely for a night. That and not hold the game up.

Maybe it's the way he phrased things, or maybe it's just what he said, but those two paragraphs seem to be a little off to me. He expects the voyeur to use lookings on him, has already submitted two sleepings (really?), and most importantly, expects a quick insta on LD. I never expect Tass to encourage an insta while he's gone, in case something like this comes up. I think he was hoping to take out LD before he got a chance to react.

Enough rambling. I see the evidence defending LD much stonger. Tass.

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by Tasselfruit

I think the main thing that I can say in my "defense" is that no one else has come forward.... that doesn't prove anything? Same logic I used when I was the vigilante and came out. The theory of me being the MW and eb or talisman coming to me is dumb. I'd hope if someone else was the whore (or the seer in any other game), they would have the common sense to NOT tell the person they seered who they are until day 2. That way, IF one of the 2 people seen was the MW, they have the other has semi-protection or revenge. I followed this strategy and did not inform the person who I slept with night 1. I'll be doing that now, as everyone already knows who I am, but that person still doesn't know they are more trustworthy IMO than the rest of you. Considering there is now 1 unknown wolf and 1 unknown MW, assuming eb wasn't one or the other.

Dude, what probably happened is the whore slept with you, or one of your other wolves, and went to the person they slept with cause it probably wasn't you. It's a lot easier to trust someone that isn't you even when there is a MW.

I know it's an uphill battle for me, but your time is running out buddy. You try to play these little games within our game, but this time it didn't pan out, I was able to get the truth out there, and I am confidant you will die, and I am 150% confidant that you are NOT the whore, and i'm 200% confidant you're a wolf.