Old 05-11-2019, 10:45 PM   #61
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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In other words, the intent is to terminate the pregnancy. That does not necessarily mean death of the fetus.
I think you're not properly applying the meaning of the word 'terminate' in this case.

And what are you suggesting happens AFTER, if this happens? Somebody is pregnant, wants an abortion. You say "So how about instead of the abortion, we take the zygote/fetus out of you...grow it in a lab and then......" do what? What are you planning on doing if that fetus then develops to the point where it becomes a real live human being? Give it up for adoption? Have the parents have to take it back? Raise it in the communal lab with all the other intended abortions?

Like...assuming anybody ever agrees to this procedure, WHY are you even doing it?
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:02 PM   #62
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well sunfan and danceguy at least you're gay. you'll be fine

dbp though. don't go too wild or else the state'll make you become a baby daddy

fr this is ridiculous and because of it i'm not ever considering even possibly moving to georgia while this ... thing... exists
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:04 PM   #63
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i'm a wild
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:06 PM   #64
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i'm a wild
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is funny eaman?
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GET DUNKED FUNNY
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Heh never underestimate the power of free time
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There comes a point where we have to ask our selves, "do we really want to deal with that, desperate as we are?"

I think we can all agree on the answer, yeah?
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:22 PM   #65
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

I'm curious to see what happens to Plan B and the like under this law
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:28 PM   #66
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The bill in ohio labels iuds and bc pills as abortions lol what the fuck is this country
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:35 AM   #67
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The bill in ohio labels iuds and bc pills as abortions lol what the fuck is this country
That's objectively incorrect. An abortion requires a pregnancy. Birth control is used to prevent a pregnancy from happening in the first place (i.e. woman is not pregnant to begin with, no abortion).

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I think you're not properly applying the meaning of the word 'terminate' in this case.

And what are you suggesting happens AFTER, if this happens? Somebody is pregnant, wants an abortion. You say "So how about instead of the abortion, we take the zygote/fetus out of you...grow it in a lab and then......" do what? What are you planning on doing if that fetus then develops to the point where it becomes a real live human being? Give it up for adoption? Have the parents have to take it back? Raise it in the communal lab with all the other intended abortions?

Like...assuming anybody ever agrees to this procedure, WHY are you even doing it?
The logistics, such as the space needed for the labs, is definitely a consideration. It's also an addition and not a replacement; The woman still has the choice to keep the newborn or put it up for adoption.

Some women may have differing opinions on terminating a pregnancy. Some may want to end their pregnancy but still want to salvage the fetus and give it up for adoption. It's not guaranteed the attempt will be successful, although I see it the same way as other medical procedures: just because there isn't a method right now doesn't mean we can't work towards a method in the future. To me, not trying would be like throwing our hands up in the air about cancer treatment because there isn't some magical panacea to remove cancer cells from a patient's body. Even if the data collected about trying to salvage the fetus points toward it being impractical, that's useful information to share.

Of course, looking at the bigger picture that does go into how we can handle the foster care system in the United States in a much better way with the extra newborns put up for adoption. That's another discussion.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:40 AM   #68
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That's objectively incorrect. An abortion requires a pregnancy. Birth control is used to prevent a pregnancy from happening in the first place (i.e. woman is not pregnant to begin with, no abortion).
I can't wait for the day where literally thinking or saying "I don't think I'll have any children" is banned because its abortion.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:49 AM   #69
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

not here to participate in the critical thinking portion of this thread.

just here to respectfully give my "fuck Georgia" and move on. don't mind me, continue with the discussion.
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you know what they say

under all the rust is really shiny... metal
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:05 AM   #70
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religious indoctrination and/or a desire to subjugate women
Is it possible one of these two things might infuriate you more?

it's interesting to think about what kind of laws were once considered outrageous but over time have evolved a sense of feeling normalized were it's no longer a question or a care.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:02 PM   #71
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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Some women may have differing opinions on terminating a pregnancy. Some may want to end their pregnancy but still want to salvage the fetus and give it up for adoption.
I honestly don't think this has ever been anybody's position on the subject of terminating a pregnancy.

Quote:
I see it the same way as other medical procedures: just because there isn't a method right now doesn't mean we can't work towards a method in the future.
I just don't think this procedure has any value. If somebody wants to have a baby and can't carry the baby themselves for medical reasons, IVF and Surrogacy are already solutions to that problem. If they don't want the pregnancy, they can just terminate it, job done.

You're seemingly wanting to solve a problem I don't think exists.

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:21 PM   #72
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You're seemingly wanting to solve a problem I don't think exists.
The fundamental key here is that the current abortion methods that are intended to terminate a state of pregnancy end up in the death of the fetus. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be this level of discourse in the pro-life movement. What is there to debate against if the fetus is transferred and still retained (or at least, attempted to be salvaged)? At the very least, it would be along the lines of "well a doctor can try, but it's not guaranteed to be successful".

It's not an either-this-or-that case; it's more of a technological limitations issue. The reason why we have the current medical and surgical abortion procedures that are the safest established methods for terminating a pregnancy is because that's what is currently known.

"IVF is the process of fertilization by extracting eggs, retrieving a sperm sample, and then manually combining an egg and sperm in a laboratory dish. The embryo(s) is then transferred to the uterus."

IVF is still putting the embryo back into the uterus. A woman can want a fetus to develop without wanting to risk complications of a pregnancy, or in the case of not wanting the pregnancy to begin with, still put it up for adoption and give up parental rights. There are different opinions for what a woman wants.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

Do you know of any women who've actually asserted that they want that?

And, once again because you somehow seem to keep missing it: The people who are anti-abortion / anti-choice DO NOT ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE ZYGOTE/FETUS/POTENTIAL FUTURE HUMAN. AT ALL.

They will accept on redirecting literally 0 dollars to find these new methods, they will allocate no resources, no manpower, no tax revenue to providing pregnant people MORE options. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT AT ALL.

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Old 05-12-2019, 08:16 PM   #74
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Ok so like im pretty dumb, but I'm sorta agreeing with devonin here, its like, what is the issue anyways?

I get it that pro-life people go like "life begins at conception!1!11" but like, why does it even matter? What is being accomplished by forcing that life to exist?

Do they do it so they can morally feel "well I did the right deed and blessed the sanctity of human life!!" and get like, a ego-boner from it or something? I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it, it's like fine if you believe life matters, but theres literally no reason behind it.

At the end of the day it seems like its just people trying to push the fact that theyre "morally correct" onto other people literally for the sake of doing just that, and not for the well being of anyone. If they cared about others well being then they'd just allow women to do what they want lol, so basically the impression I end up getting is that suddenly the life of the person having the child is worthless, but for some reason the life of the "baby that hasn't even been born" is suddenly OMG SO VALUABLE.

All in all people are dumb.

Quote:
And, once again because you somehow seem to keep missing it: The people who are anti-abortion / anti-choice DO NOT ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE ZYGOTE/FETUS/POTENTIAL FUTURE HUMAN. AT ALL.
I just read dev say this, but can you elaborate on it? So if people who are anti abortion don't care about the future human or fetus, then whats the entire point of what theyre doing? I dont really get it lol

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Old 05-12-2019, 08:18 PM   #75
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I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it
Power and oppression.

They look back to the days where the man was the only authority in the household, and men were the only authority period. And they wish for a return to those days.

The "pro-life" movement is only anti-woman. It is not actually pro anything.

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Old 05-12-2019, 08:21 PM   #76
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Power and oppression.
Ok I can see this and thats basically what I was leaning towards lolz, you're right, its straight up just to control what other people can and can't do, and to feel like theyre in a position of power.

I don't really know much about the issue.. Luckily, I'm from Canada where things like abortion are fully legal and governed by the state and everything seems just fine..

I just read on a wiki article about Abortion in canada:

Quote:
The Canadian affiliate of Planned Parenthood, now known as the Canadian Federation for Sexual Health, is also pro-choice, and while it does refer pregnant women to abortion providers, it does not have a history (unlike its American counterpart) of engaging in widespread litigation in favour of legalized abortion.
Like lol ok so basically they dont "support it" but still give the resources for people who are seeking it as an option, so all in all Canada does what America should be doing, yet again

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Old 05-12-2019, 08:22 PM   #77
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It doesn't need to have a history of litigation in favour of legalized abortion because there are no laws limiting it. And the laws that used to exist to limit it were struck down as unconstitutional.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by DaBackpack View Post
i'm a wild
ur a beta boi

edit: also lmao when you put it that way, the article sounds biased as hell lolll

"ok so this party didn't provide any explicit pro/anti abortion rhetoric... oh yea by the way in canada thats not even a debate at all so they have no reason to provide it, but yea since they didn't pick a stance we'll just say theyre 'neutral' to make it seem like theyre not for abortion ahaha semantics are sweet"

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Old 05-12-2019, 09:43 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Dinglesberry View Post
ur a beta boi

edit: also lmao when you put it that way, the article sounds biased as hell lolll

"ok so this party didn't provide any explicit pro/anti abortion rhetoric... oh yea by the way in canada thats not even a debate at all so they have no reason to provide it, but yea since they didn't pick a stance we'll just say theyre 'neutral' to make it seem like theyre not for abortion ahaha semantics are sweet"
i don't see any implication that they're neutral in what you quoted

or that they didn't pick a stance (it says the organization is pro-choice)
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:47 PM   #80
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i don't see any implication that they're neutral in what you quoted

or that they didn't pick a stance (it says the organization is pro-choice)
nah, the conclusion Dev and Dingles came to is right

That wording is extremely specific. At least in Ontario, there is no way abortions would be able to be provided by private clinics; to "refer patients to abortion providers" in Ontario means "get them a referral to a hospital, the same as any other procedure would need"

That entire paragraph is completely unnecessary.
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