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Old 06-21-2014, 05:25 PM   #61
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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Originally Posted by reuben_tate View Post
Thus, the FSM argument fails because the underlying assumption that creationism is an arbitrary explanation simply isn't true.
Why does it fail? Why is the FSM any more unlikely than the Christian god? You just made a couple of inferences about creators and then without reasoning just concluded that FSM is a less likely alternative than the Christian god.

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Now, one might claim that the explanation for creationism is dumb considering the amount of evidence we have for alternative explanations but that's not the point of the FSM argument.
What you're arguing -is not- the point of the FSM argument. The point of the FSM argument is to show that you can replace the Christian god with anything you wish and it'll still make just as much sense (that is, none).
Who is to say that our creator -isn't- an all powerful flying spaghetti monster? Without proof it's just as likely and you simply can't make an assumption regarding a creator of the universe. We know that bees create beehives because we observe them create beehives. We don't know that for the creation of the universe.

edit: why do I even seriously reply to this thread..
edit2: The words you're looking for is "caused by", not the "the cause of". Buildings being "the cause of" humans would suggest buildings created humans.
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Old 06-21-2014, 05:58 PM   #62
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Anyone who is mad about this needs to get a grip on reality
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:10 PM   #63
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._ View Post
Why does it fail? Why is the FSM any more unlikely than the Christian god? You just made a couple of inferences about creators and then without reasoning just concluded that FSM is a less likely alternative than the Christian god.



What you're arguing -is not- the point of the FSM argument. The point of the FSM argument is to show that you can replace the Christian god with anything you wish and it'll still make just as much sense (that is, none).
Who is to say that our creator -isn't- an all powerful flying spaghetti monster? Without proof it's just as likely and you simply can't make an assumption regarding a creator of the universe. We know that bees create beehives because we observe them create beehives. We don't know that for the creation of the universe.

edit: why do I even seriously reply to this thread..
edit2: The words you're looking for is "caused by", not the "the cause of". Buildings being "the cause of" humans would suggest buildings created humans.
I fixed the grammar issues, I obviously didn't proofread my post. However, I don't even want to respond to your arguments because you seem insistent on bringing Christianity into an argument where it isn't needed.
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(^)> peck peck says the heels
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And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
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awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:13 PM   #64
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

For once I am actually too lazy to reply to that argument



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Old 06-21-2014, 06:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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I fixed the grammar issues, I obviously didn't proofread my post. However, I don't even want to respond to your arguments because you seem insistent on bringing Christianity into an argument where it isn't needed.
Replace it with Zeus or Ra or Allah, I don't care, the point stays the same. You're dodging the argument.
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:17 PM   #66
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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Replace it with Zeus or Ra or Allah, I don't care, the point stays the same. You're dodging the argument.
What if I don't want to replace it with anything? What if I want to leave it open as a general generalization? What if I leave open the possibility that the FSM may actually exist?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:21 PM   #67
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

oh god

reuben please don't make me, I'm doing so well right now
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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What if I don't want to replace it with anything? What if I want to leave it open as a general generalization? What if I leave open the possibility that the FSM may actually exist?
What the fuck is your point? You're dodging the argument.....
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:24 PM   #69
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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Anyone who is mad about this needs to get a grip on reality
but what is reality, and how did it begin riddle me that FOOL
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:28 PM   #70
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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but what is reality, and how did it begin riddle me that FOOL
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:44 PM   #71
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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What the fuck is your point? You're dodging the argument.....
You're right, there probably isn't a teapot orbiting between Earth and Mars. But perhaps there is something.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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You're right, there probably isn't a teapot orbiting between Earth and Mars. But perhaps there is something.
Ok?.. but that wasn't what was being asked now was it? Why does the FSM argument fail? What makes creationism not an arbitrary story?
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:49 PM   #73
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

stop... I... can't...

I have to go, or else I'm going to get sucked in
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:56 PM   #74
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

is this the point where i just start posting gay porn in the thread and get banned for a week
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:56 PM   #75
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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stop... I... can't...

I have to go, or else I'm going to get sucked in
Is this you right now?
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:14 PM   #76
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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Ok.. but that wasn't what was being asked now was it? Why does the FSM argument fail? What makes creationism not an arbitrary story?
A story for creationism is only arbitrary if you choose an arbitrary story. Consider all the possible stories one could possibly come up with. Each one probably has an extremely low probability of holding true especially if it's filled with arbitrarily chosen details (e.g. like our creator is a pink fluffy unicorn who stuffs its face with candy and poops out rainbows). But I'm not considering any one particular story. I'm considering the set of all possible stories for creationism because I don't care about the details.

Here is a terrible example: Suppose I ask you to think of a prime number and for you not to tell me. And I ask you, "is it odd?" Now did I choose to ask if it was odd arbitrarily? No, I chose that because I know that all but one of the prime numbers are odd. Now consider each prime number that is also odd. If I had asked you, "Is it 17?" or "Is it 23" those would seem like arbitrary choices but considering all the odd numbers as a whole is not. However, it may actually be the case that the number chosen was in fact 17 or 23.

Similarly, the story of the FSM is pretty arbitrary. However, the set of all possible stories for creationism isn't trivially arbitrary.

PS I'm done...I don't want to waste more of my day stuck in this thread.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:22 PM   #77
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

oh thank god I almost didn't make it
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:32 PM   #78
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben_tate View Post
A story for creationism is only arbitrary if you choose an arbitrary story. Consider all the possible stories one could possibly come up with. Each one probably has an extremely low probability of holding true especially if it's filled with arbitrarily chosen details (e.g. like our creator is a pink fluffy unicorn who stuffs its face with candy and poops out rainbows). But I'm not considering any one particular story. I'm considering the set of all possible stories for creationism because I don't care about the details.

Here is a terrible example: Suppose I ask you to think of a prime number and for you not to tell me. And I ask you, "is it odd?" Now did I choose to ask if it was odd arbitrarily? No, I chose that because I know that all but one of the prime numbers are odd. Now consider each prime number that is also odd. If I had asked you, "Is it 17?" or "Is it 23" those would seem like arbitrary choices but considering all the odd numbers as a whole is not. However, it may actually be the case that the number chosen was in fact 17 or 23.

Similarly, the story of the FSM is pretty arbitrary. However, the set of all possible stories for creationism isn't trivially arbitrary.

PS I'm done...I don't want to waste more of my day stuck in this thread.
If the initial premise of all those stories is arbitrary (i.e. universe needs a creator), the combination of all those stories doesn't magically turn into something not arbitrary or something likely.

You're right though, that is a terrible example.

It's funny how you complained about argument by analogy and then you use argument by analogy.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Can we lock this thread before I change my mind?

Edit: my bad, there might be some people that actually want to talk about the OP. Carry on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing

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Old 06-21-2014, 07:51 PM   #80
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Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

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but what is reality, and how did it begin riddle me that FOOL
is this the real life?
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