Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Chit Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2014, 11:23 PM   #41
Izzy
Frau Bow
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,197
Send a message via AIM to Izzy Send a message via MSN to Izzy Send a message via Skype™ to Izzy
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Not a very useful argument and in the history of never has creationism been taught as the more simple concept of the universe being created by intelligence without all of the religion stuff added on.

There is nothing to prove or disprove so you would still have to teach about it rather than teach it as a potential fact.
__________________
Join SMO IRC. irc.rizon.net#smo
Izzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 11:42 PM   #42
Reincarnate
x'); DROP TABLE FFR;--
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
Reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,335
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

But if we came from monkeys why do we still have monkeys
Reincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 11:54 PM   #43
Mollocephalus
Squock
FFR Veteran
 
Mollocephalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Italy
Age: 31
Posts: 2,491
Send a message via Skype™ to Mollocephalus
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

I wouldn't think this would spawn so much controversy when creationism is clearly bullshit and has no right to be taught as a scientific fact.

Let's make another example: would you think it's wrong to ban holocaust negationist history books from being used in public schools and presented as actual facts?
__________________
Mollocephalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 12:16 AM   #44
stargroup100
behanjc & me are <3'ers
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music Producer
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

another small point I should add:

even if the creationism argument that neither evolution nor creationism can be proven to be true or false, that still doesn't qualify creationism to be taught in classrooms (and if that was the case evolution shouldn't be taught either)

the point of science is to make demonstrable claims about reality. if you make any kind of statement that is not provable or demonstrable, it can never be discussed meaningfully in science
__________________
Rhythm Simulation Guide
Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music
stargroup100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 12:30 AM   #45
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 31
Posts: 6,367
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

bro do you even hume
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 02:00 AM   #46
reuben_tate
Kawaii Desu Ne?
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
reuben_tate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Kawaiian Island~
Age: 27
Posts: 4,121
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Flying Spaghetti Monster
is a terrible argument
__________________
AMA: http://ask.fm/benguino

Not happening now! Don't click to join!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing
reuben_tate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 06:06 AM   #47
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben_tate View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster
is a terrible argument
but will it blend?????
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 07:29 AM   #48
Reincarnate
x'); DROP TABLE FFR;--
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
Reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,335
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Reuben: elaborate?
Reincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 07:40 AM   #49
rushyrulz
Digital Dancing!
Multiplayer ModeratorEvent StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music ProducerD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
rushyrulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 72 billion club, NE
Age: 27
Posts: 12,442
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

oh yea? well explain the grand canyon!
__________________

rushyrulz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 07:45 AM   #50
Nullifidian
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Global ModeratorFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Nullifidian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 1,818
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch0wl View Post
Well, okay, but you've restated the definition of censorship as an argument that it isn't censorship.

The problem I think is that bans on speech are censorship but this doesn't mean censorship is in itself objectionable, but many people consider censorship objectionable wholesale, so they're reluctant to call it that. Some people believe that censorship only applies to public speech, and there's a weird debate about that, but in a broader sense "censorship" just means "bans on speech", regardless of private or public context.

You are not allowed to commit fraud because deceitful speech on products is banned. This is a kind of censorship I support.

Curricula indirectly ban a lot of other things from being taught anyway by mandating what must be taught, so I don't think excluding creationism would cause any harm. My only concern would be what would happen if the precedent were reworked to ban information for more political reasons, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ce_controversy
I think you misinterpreted my sentence because it can still be taught in the appropriate religious studies classes. It's not banned from ever being mentioned, just (as I said) banned from being taught as scientific fact. Failing to meet the standards of science in order for something to be taught in science classes isn't censorship. If it is, then not teaching about unicorns or leprechauns (or any other unsubstantiated unfalsifiable concept you can think of) in science classes is also censorship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rushyrulz View Post
oh yea? well explain the grand canyon!
__________________

Last edited by Nullifidian; 06-19-2014 at 07:47 AM..
Nullifidian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 10:12 AM   #51
Reincarnate
x'); DROP TABLE FFR;--
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
Reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,335
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Simple as that: creationism isn't science. Thus it has no place in the science classroom.
Reincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 10:15 AM   #52
MinaciousGrace
FFR Player
D7 Elite Keysmasher
 
MinaciousGrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nima
Posts: 4,281
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

shouldnt that have been obvious from the op

like why is this thread even 3 pages

what
MinaciousGrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2014, 10:22 AM   #53
Izzy
Frau Bow
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,197
Send a message via AIM to Izzy Send a message via MSN to Izzy Send a message via Skype™ to Izzy
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Because FFR. Threads like this should probably be locked on sight.
__________________
Join SMO IRC. irc.rizon.net#smo
Izzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 02:31 PM   #54
welsh_girl
FFR Player
 
welsh_girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cymru, U.K
Age: 30
Posts: 1,363
Send a message via AIM to welsh_girl Send a message via MSN to welsh_girl
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

It's not actually being *banned* here though...
welsh_girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 03:03 PM   #55
adlp
melee and siege
FFR Veteran
 
adlp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,757
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

i dont believe in creationism but this thread was doomed from the start
__________________
adlp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 04:17 PM   #56
Hateandhatred
"The Quebec Steparatist."
FFR Veteran
 
Hateandhatred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 1,780
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

How is this even a discussion in 2014? Can't people read? I wanted to post about this, but figured it was completely pointless because "eh", but now... Ah, fuck w/e.
__________________


FMO AAAs (click on title for replays):
ETERNAL DRAIN [Heavy] (67)
,
Fast Asleep (67)
,
dr1 (73)



Quote:
Originally Posted by rayword45 View Post
something something nate lever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Humor, pls keep away if easily triggered
I don't fucking know there is apparently more genders in 2019 than there are concentration camp victims
Quote:
Originally Posted by the sun fan View Post
SHUT UP SVEN I KNOW I'M PLAYING BAD

Quote:
Det är okej om djuret är större än du.
Hateandhatred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 06:26 PM   #57
stargroup100
behanjc & me are <3'ers
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Music Producer
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
like why is this thread even 3 pages
funny how this was pretty much my reaction in the ct board, except I added that implications of the belief should be discussed

here in chit chat I think this thread is totally fine to talk about because we're not being InTeLlEcTuAlS and ironically more people are now saying that
__________________
Rhythm Simulation Guide
Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music
stargroup100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 07:50 PM   #58
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

thanks for making it 4 pages
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 05:03 PM   #59
reuben_tate
Kawaii Desu Ne?
Sectional ModeratorFFR Veteran
 
reuben_tate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Kawaiian Island~
Age: 27
Posts: 4,121
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
Reuben: elaborate?
Just a few remarks:
-gonna let FSM = flying spaghetti monster since it's a long phrase
-I'm going to define creationism as the involvement of a higher deity in the creation of the universe and/or the contents within it
-none of this post should be read with respect to any particular religion, especially Christianity.

The FSM monster argument is essentially an argument by analogy. The claim is that believing in the existence of a greater deity is, for the same reasons, as ridiculous as believing in the existence of a FSM. Now, why is believing in the existence of a FSM ridiculous? Well, it's ridiculous because it's a completely arbitrary explanation with no logical force behind it. However, creationism, in the most general and abstract sense possible, is not an arbitrary explanation.

Sure if you take any particular religion, then a lot of the details do say rather arbitrary. And I especially challenge one to question any of their religious rules or customs if they seem arbitrary. However, this post is not about any particular religion and their arbitrary explanations for things or their arbitrary rules.

The main motivation in considering creationism is that we observe that usually a lot of complex systems are the cause of an intelligent being. For example, buildings are caused by humans, beehives are caused by bees, dams are caused by beavers, etc. Considering that we ourselves our complex beings, it is not too unreasonable to make the inference that we ourselves have some intelligent designer. Thus, the reasoning for believing in creationism is not some arbitrary, but based off a somewhat reasonable inference.

If one pours water into a cup and turns the cup upside down, they will notice the water will spill out of the cup. If one pours water into a bowl and flips it upside down, they will observe that the water will spill out. What if I pour water into a pot? It would be reasonable for one to infer from the first two experiences, that turning the pot upside down will cause the water to spill out of it. Of course one would need to actually run experiments by flipping pots upside down filled with water to gather a strong amount of evidence but the point is that making inferences based off of similar observations is not an unreasonable thing to do. (However, I will say claiming that one's inferences are objectively true is an unreasonable thing to do.)

Thus, the FSM argument fails because the underlying assumption that creationism is an arbitrary explanation simply isn't true. Now, one might claim that the explanation for creationism is dumb considering the amount of evidence we have for alternative explanations but that's not the point of the FSM argument.

PS This post is not intended to persuade or dissuade anyone to/from creationism, it is simply a post intended to analyze the FSM argument.
__________________
AMA: http://ask.fm/benguino

Not happening now! Don't click to join!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenner View Post
(^)> peck peck says the heels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakvvv666
awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing

Last edited by reuben_tate; 06-21-2014 at 05:52 PM..
reuben_tate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2014, 05:19 PM   #60
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,871
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

i always thought the fsm argument was bad because it's related to reddit in some shape or form
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynam0 View Post
I'm a dark giraffe in this maniera
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution