Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Chit Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2014, 09:31 PM   #21
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
Implying creationism is provable and has been proved false.
government intervention on what they think is the truth is censorship. The government is literally stopping schools from being able to teach what is in their opinion the "wrong" idea.

I don't approve of theism but this is still not a good way to stop it.
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:32 PM   #22
Nullifidian
\_(ツ)_/
Global ModeratorFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Nullifidian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 1,818
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
How is this not censorship? You're not allowed to teach a material. It's simple censorship.
It's simply banned as being taught as scientific fact, because - who woulda thunk - it isn't scientific fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
Implying creationism is provable and has been proved false.
Onus probandi
__________________
Nullifidian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:32 PM   #23
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,849
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
Implying creationism is provable and has been proved false.
I really hope you're not going to take this stance.
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:33 PM   #24
XelNya
KahoXN
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
XelNya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,780
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
in what way is this censorship?
Pretty much this.

They're not saying you can't mention it. Read the article carefully. "In any case prevents the teaching of creationism as evidence based theory"

It says you can't teach it in a specific manner. It does not limit the discussion except that you can't say it's supported by science. (Because science has pretty much theorized with pretty good evidence otherwise.)

It limits a miscommunication is what it does.

I'm not an active "fuck religion" vocally kind of person. I dislike religion because it hinders progress and creates issues that shouldn't even really issues in the first place. (See gay rights for an extreme example.) But this is something we need here as well. I'd love to see this.

I'd also love to see a lot of other things, but this would be a hell of a start.

Edit: "Creationism" does not need to be proven true or false. It only needs to be proved to be extremely likely/unlikely.
__________________
paq in progress
XelNya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:34 PM   #25
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by XelNya View Post
They're not saying you can't mention it. Read the article carefully. "In any case prevents the teaching of creationism as evidence based theory"
oops
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:37 PM   #26
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,849
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by XelNya View Post
Edit: "Creationism" does not need to be proven true or false. It only needs to be proved to be extremely likely/unlikely.
evolution and creationism are two totally incompatible ideas
by evolution being a fact, creationism is effectively rendered false
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:38 PM   #27
Reach
FFR Simfile Author
Sectional ModeratorFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Reach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 7,462
Send a message via AIM to Reach Send a message via MSN to Reach
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiz View Post
How about:

- Hey guys, here is one side of the story
- Hey guys, here is the other side of the story

Think for yourselves and believe what you believe


(Because in all honesty, nobody gives a shit what alignment you take part of at the end of the day)
No.

You can't be serious.

You teach science in a science classroom. Creationism is not science. Therefore, you don't teach it. It's really that simple.

By your logic, why don't we teach holocaust denial in history classes and let people choose what they want to believe anyway.

You talking about fact vs fiction here. You don't give something that isn't true a platform in the classroom.
__________________
Reach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:42 PM   #28
ilikexd
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Reno, Nevada
Age: 26
Posts: 3,112
Send a message via Skype™ to ilikexd
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
this is stupid man science should be about learning both sides of the story
This
he was being sarcastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiz View Post
How about:

- Hey guys, here is one side of the story
- Hey guys, here is the other side of the story

Think for yourselves and believe what you believe


(Because in all honesty, nobody gives a shit what alignment you take part of at the end of the day)
what sides of what story

there are an uncountably high number of religious "sides" of "the story" besides a (christian) idea of creationism

SCIENCE classes aren't supposed to bother with any of them because they're there to teach about scientific material in a world where knowledge thereof is a very useful tool, and this is what's funded by the state

you can go to a private school, church, internet or wherever if you want to learn about other "sides", regarding (lol) censorship argument. nothing is being censored.
ilikexd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:43 PM   #29
ilikexd
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Reno, Nevada
Age: 26
Posts: 3,112
Send a message via Skype™ to ilikexd
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

fck ninjad by reach
ilikexd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:43 PM   #30
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach View Post
You talking about fact vs fiction here. You don't give something that isn't true a platform in the classroom.
again, assuming this is fiction. There's no proof that it is. Proving it by proving it wrong is one way to do it, but what we have right now are assumptions.

I'm not in favour of creationism but really we can't just say "haha you guys are wrong stop spreading your lies" when we can't even prove the the universe wasn't created by a higher being.

edit: actually never mind I think Reach was saying that it shouldn't be taught in the science room if it's not a fact right? Ignore this.

Last edited by Pseudo Enigma; 06-18-2014 at 09:46 PM..
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:46 PM   #31
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,849
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post

I'm not in favour of creationism but really we can't just say "haha you guys are wrong stop spreading your lies" when we can't even prove the the universe wasn't created by a higher being.
Maybe you didn't understand what Tristan meant by onus probandi so I'll give you a bit more insight as to why this stance is totally flawed.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #32
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
Maybe you didn't understand what Tristan meant by onus probandi so I'll give you a bit more insight as to why this stance is totally flawed.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
I understand Latin asshole. I was ignoring it because I'm not about to prove that creationism is correct.

Last edited by Pseudo Enigma; 06-18-2014 at 09:48 PM.. Reason: fuck this I'm out. top kek said Greek instead of Latin.
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:48 PM   #33
ilikexd
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Reno, Nevada
Age: 26
Posts: 3,112
Send a message via Skype™ to ilikexd
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
again, assuming this is fiction. There's no proof that it is. Proving it by proving it wrong is one way to do it, but what we have right now are assumptions.

I'm not in favour of creationism but really we can't just say "haha you guys are wrong stop spreading your lies" when we can't even prove the the universe wasn't created by a higher being.
The scientific theories being taught in classrooms have more or less been proven true, like evolution for example.

Creationism has not been proven true. Nobody who has asserted it has proven it true, and the burden of proof is on them to do so. You can't really prove it false because due to its nature it's unfalsifiable, which is one measure of being non-scientific.

One argument can be that if any type of evidence were to be found that proved creationism or any sort of supernatural phenomenon untrue, then there is a supernatural force at work that created false evidence to deceive people.
ilikexd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:48 PM   #34
Reach
FFR Simfile Author
Sectional ModeratorFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Reach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 7,462
Send a message via AIM to Reach Send a message via MSN to Reach
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
again, assuming this is fiction. There's no proof that it is. Proving it by proving it wrong is one way to do it, but what we have right now are assumptions.

I'm not in favour of creationism but really we can't just say "haha you guys are wrong stop spreading your lies" when we can't even prove the the universe wasn't created by a higher being.
Many forms of creationism are easily disproven. E.g. young earth creationism.

I'm not sure saying god created the universe qualifies as creationism.

I suppose the best shot the umbrella term 'creationism' has for pulling out the 'haha you can't disprove me 8)' card is theistic evolution.

However, the burden of proof is always on the claim itself in science. Theistic evolution is a monumental failure on that end of things, given you can easily just remove the theistic part and all of a sudden you have a real theory.

Additionally, everything I said before that still holds true; it's still not science, therefore it has no place in a science classroom.
__________________
Reach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:49 PM   #35
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,849
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
I understand asshole. I was ignoring it because I'm not about to prove that creationism is correct.
what

You don't have to prove anything lol, there's nothing to be proven.
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:54 PM   #36
Pseudo Enigma
やる気ない _(:3c 」∠ )_
FFR Veteran
 
Pseudo Enigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 2,291
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
what

You don't have to prove anything lol, there's nothing to be proven.
*sigh* k I'm just gonna stop I'm probably misreading and causing shit for everyone
Pseudo Enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 09:54 PM   #37
choof
youtu.be/sM5hlrkaPSo
FFR Simfile AuthorD7 Elite KeysmasherFFR Veteran
 
choof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,849
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

good idea !!
choof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:17 PM   #38
Nullifidian
\_(ツ)_/
Global ModeratorFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Nullifidian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 1,818
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma View Post
I understand Latin asshole. I was ignoring it because I'm not about to prove that creationism is correct.
It wasn't meant to make you prove anything. It was to make you realize what a stupid argument you made.
__________________
Nullifidian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 10:50 PM   #39
Arch0wl
Banned
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fb.com/a.macdonald.iv
Age: 31
Posts: 6,367
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._ View Post
It's simply banned as being taught as scientific fact, because - who woulda thunk - it isn't scientific fact.
Well, okay, but you've restated the definition of censorship as an argument that it isn't censorship.

The problem I think is that bans on speech are censorship but this doesn't mean censorship is in itself objectionable, but many people consider censorship objectionable wholesale, so they're reluctant to call it that. Some people believe that censorship only applies to public speech, and there's a weird debate about that, but in a broader sense "censorship" just means "bans on speech", regardless of private or public context.

You are not allowed to commit fraud because deceitful speech on products is banned. This is a kind of censorship I support.

Curricula indirectly ban a lot of other things from being taught anyway by mandating what must be taught, so I don't think excluding creationism would cause any harm. My only concern would be what would happen if the precedent were reworked to ban information for more political reasons, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ce_controversy
Arch0wl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 11:09 PM   #40
Izzy
Frau Bow
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Izzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,197
Send a message via AIM to Izzy Send a message via MSN to Izzy Send a message via Skype™ to Izzy
Default Re: UK Bans Teaching Creationism in State-Funded Schools Read

I don't have any issues with teaching about something. That is completely different from teaching it as fact. Unfortunately religion is a thing people do so if someone wanted to teach about the fact that people have religious beliefs then so be it.
__________________
Join SMO IRC. irc.rizon.net#smo
Izzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution