TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

[Daikyi]

there's a point to where we do probably just insta, which is when generally as a consensus we feel like we're ready to move on pretty much, no sense in wasting away 48 hours probably

[Daikyi]

overall view on players, examining the worlds where they're wolf

i still don't touch gradiant despite wolf leans, i think especially because it looked like MML's seering didn't really change gradian't play at all - like, trying to examine the game in a state where gradiant is a wolf and knows that mml is real, haku is fake, i think there would have been more leniency (again, if grad was wolf) towards mml considering mml had greenchecked him. and has been consistently pushing on antori for however long he's alive

mellon i feel like, the most comments from her that i could remember is making remarks that consist of not being able to follow how the setup works, and generally playing backseat to the rest of the players, generally asking stuff in the same vein as "should we just insta or move on". there was literally complete on-the-fence-ness about mml vs. haku where it started early with liking haku, then liking mml. regardless, no vote at eod feels really sketch as well.
I think wolf raeko fits some of this narrative, especially like

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Right now I would say I slightly believe Haku is real over Lar. However, I can't quite explain why so I'm going to do as Shado suggested and ISO both of them. I think we should all do that before the phase is over, cause that is going to help me a lot more than analyzing potential night actions/etc

and then doesn't iso, and also the flip flops from mml to haku, (again, esp. without the vote) makes it feel like she was maybe afraid to tip the boat in either side, since without my vote in the last minute, her voting haku for instance makes it a kitb which might have seemed too much risk/reward. I think here, especially as lynch was skewing towards MML (for the entire phase pretty much) i'm imagining rhetoric in like, wolf chat is to try and not influence too much and to let town do its thing, given that there was majority leaning towards MML lynch.

shadowolfe i haven't developed too far on because i've been ultra lazy reading thread if it hasn't already been apparant lmao but rereading a bunch of last phase his perspective seems very normal. like idk what other manner i can describe it in, but that's about it. unnaturally buddy-buddy with indheart, but i've yet to go back and fish out his reads on indheart, unsure if shadowolfe (can probably remember better what reads lists he's posted) had indheart as hard town, or probably more likely, sheeping MML's green check on ind

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Daikyi

overall view on players, examining the worlds where they're wolf

i still don't touch gradiant despite wolf leans, i think especially because it looked like MML's seering didn't really change gradian't play at all - like, trying to examine the game in a state where gradiant is a wolf and knows that mml is real, haku is fake, i think there would have been more leniency (again, if grad was wolf) towards mml considering mml had greenchecked him. and has been consistently pushing on antori for however long he's alive

mellon i feel like, the most comments from her that i could remember is making remarks that consist of not being able to follow how the setup works, and generally playing backseat to the rest of the players, generally asking stuff in the same vein as "should we just insta or move on". there was literally complete on-the-fence-ness about mml vs. haku where it started early with liking haku, then liking mml. regardless, no vote at eod feels really sketch as well.
I think wolf raeko fits some of this narrative, especially like

and then doesn't iso, and also the flip flops from mml to haku, (again, esp. without the vote) makes it feel like she was maybe afraid to tip the boat in either side, since without my vote in the last minute, her voting haku for instance makes it a kitb which might have seemed too much risk/reward. I think here, especially as lynch was skewing towards MML (for the entire phase pretty much) i'm imagining rhetoric in like, wolf chat is to try and not influence too much and to let town do its thing, given that there was majority leaning towards MML lynch.

shadowolfe i haven't developed too far on because i've been ultra lazy reading thread if it hasn't already been apparant lmao but rereading a bunch of last phase his perspective seems very normal. like idk what other manner i can describe it in, but that's about it. unnaturally buddy-buddy with indheart, but i've yet to go back and fish out his reads on indheart, unsure if shadowolfe (can probably remember better what reads lists he's posted) had indheart as hard town, or probably more likely, sheeping MML's green check on ind

Phone posting while stuck in traffic (yeah I know I shouldn't be on my phone)

I actually lightweight was suspecting inD as a deepwolf up until he started putting in heavy work analyzing setups. The mechanical posting I feel could've been faked but something about his thoughts in between made me pretty sure he was town. I don't know if I shared reads suspecting him but I defo was keeping an eye on him. Don't remember being buddy buddy with him either up until right at EoD, but I can see how someone else might come to that conclusion.

I'm not sure I like how you default back to raeko. If you're town, you're gonna have to look hard at Gradiant and ultimately decide between them. As much as I would like to be right on Raeko, gamestate rn forces me to reassess that and I urge you do the same

[Daikyi]

i already expressed my sentiment on gradiant. again, i don't think he busses antori the entirety of the game, and sticks on mml who has a green check on him early, as a wolf

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Daikyi

i already expressed my sentiment on gradiant. again, i don't think he busses antori the entirety of the game, and sticks on mml who has a green check on him early, as a wolf

I mean, that's a fair assessment, but not one I'm entirely comfortable betting the game on. You do have more experience playing with Gradiant than I, though, so I'll play devil's advocate for a moment and ask you this: Is Gradiant anti-bussing? What is it about tunneling Antori that bars them from being partners in your mind?

In terms of the leniency, do you really think Gradiant of all people (just saying from my experience with him this game) backs off and shows leniency as wolf after interactions with someone as abrasive as MML? or do you think he doubles down and gets into it with MML when he sees the rest of thread wanting to lynch the real cop?

[ShadoWolfe]

@Raeko why didn't you vote?

You seemed pretty certain in your last post about MML being town tonally, and even defended liking him. Why not vote Haku?

[Daikyi]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I mean, that's a fair assessment, but not one I'm entirely comfortable betting the game on. You do have more experience playing with Gradiant than I, though, so I'll play devil's advocate for a moment and ask you this: Is Gradiant anti-bussing? What is it about tunneling Antori that bars them from being partners in your mind?

In terms of the leniency, do you really think Gradiant of all people (just saying from my experience with him this game) backs off and shows leniency as wolf after interactions with someone as abrasive as MML? or do you think he doubles down and gets into it with MML when he sees the rest of thread wanting to lynch the real cop?

It's not necessarily that gradiant is anti-bussing, but the constant pressure on antori, whose lynch mechanically sealed a lot of the setup is a little more than just bussing. I also don't think i saw gradiant back off on MML, but more like, stop wanting to engage with him at a certain point. The general feel i get from town gradiant is not wanting to really deal with shitty play, and i think i mentioned that on d0. I'm a little unclear about what you're trying to ask w/ the second paragraph though tbh

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Daikyi

I'm a little unclear about what you're trying to ask w/ the second paragraph though tbh

I meant in regards to:

Originally Posted by Daikyi

in a state where gradiant is a wolf and knows that mml is real, haku is fake, i think there would have been more leniency (again, if grad was wolf) towards mml considering mml had greenchecked him

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

In terms of the leniency, do you really think Gradiant of all people (just saying from my experience with him this game) backs off and shows leniency as wolf after interactions with someone as abrasive as MML? or do you think he doubles down and gets into it with MML when he sees the rest of thread wanting to lynch the real cop?

To rephrase, would wolf!Gradiant really back off and show leniency to copMML despite his established scumlean and despite MML's abrasiveness as a player, or does wolf!Gradiant double down on his scumlean when he sees MML's abrasive posts and sees nearly everyone else wanting to lynch MML?

[ShadoWolfe]

In terms of the Antori point, I agree that it'd be folly for a wolf to seriously bus and *push* early on onto Antori, given that Antori's flip locks worlds to a minimum of 4 Ts

[ShadoWolfe]

In terms of the Antori point, I agree that it'd be folly for a wolf partner to seriously bus and *push* early on onto Antori, given that Antori's flip locks worlds to a minimum of 4 Ts.

I think I can see why that may absolve Gradiant, especially if his push was as resolved as I remember it. I think, at the very least, re-reading that progression of Gradi-Antori interactions should resolve his slot. I don't remember ever thinking it was likely to be W/W, so I think you may be onto something there

[ShadoWolfe]

Oh, the first one went through too.

WhAt A nIcE, rElIaBlE lApToP i HaVe HeRe

[Daikyi]

i dont really have much else to say, so as soon as yall say that youre ready, im pretty much ready

[the sun fan]

Votecount
Unvote- Gradiant

[Hakulyte]

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

@Raeko why didn't you vote?

You seemed pretty certain in your last post about MML being town tonally, and even defended liking him. Why not vote Haku?

I'm always pretty apprehensive about voting because I don't want to make the wrong decision, which I know is stupid and bad. But in this situation I felt like I didn't have a good enough reason other than "tone/gut" to believe in Lar. and I kinda let everyone else feeling the other way influence me into being flakey about my own feelings.

As usually happens after I don't vote I am kicking myself now, but what can you do. I wasn't confident enough at the time to make a proper push

I wanna do a quick read over of the game and give a few thoughts on everyone, but after I'm done that I will also be ready to move the game along I think

[ShadoWolfe]

Phoneposting because my laptop is officially unusuable. Windows won't boot and reformatting it doesn't work. Repairing drive doesn't work. Spent 3 hours in pre-boot CMD this morning only to lose hope. Either need a new hard drive or a new motherboard. I'm leaning (hoping) motherboard and maybe I can have a professional extract my data so I don't lose every photo back from 2012.

Anyway,

I was starting to second guess my read on Daikyi remembering MML's insistence it wasn't raeko and was daikyi, so I did my due diligence to avoid clearing anyone too early. Daikyi isn't wolfing. If he is then I've lost and brought town down with me, but I'm not gonna let tinfoiling and overthinking end up throwing game away. There's too much natural progression and and genuity evident in his thought process. The MML lynch, for instance, was necessary for a chance at a wolf victory, and while Daikyi pushed it, it wasn't as artificial as MML made it seem. The previous phase, Daikyi confirmed MML as cop (despite vocal distaste of his play) and was operating on the premise of lynching Haku until Haku claimed cop as well. He only changed his mind away from believing claims once Antori flipped and it became confirmed that a cop was lying.

Gradiant is super town imo. I went back to EoD D0 to see how genuine his Antori push was and even up to 5 minutes away from EoD he was pushing for the Antori wagon over all else. If Antori was godfather or something then I'd reconsider but a hard serious push to lynch the wolf that confirms setup from D0 is tough to swallow. Aside from that, his ISO shows he wasnt skating by as much as I thought he was. There's a bunch of examples of little things that he caught and asked about that indicate town trying to solve. Think I'd even vote Daikyi before Gradiant.

I said I'd leave a will of sorts in case I draw the NK


This is it: lynch Raeko. Out of every game I've ever played with her, the only two she's ever played like this were the SK game and a wolf game. Roundbox had the same idea if you go back and read his criteria. Also there's a lot of little things that scream partnership with Antori.
D0 at EoD as Antori was becoming more at risk, Raeko says she's voting between WV/Shado. There's also an interaction with Antori where he asks her wolf leans "because he hasn't heard them yet", she replies including him among 3 others and this is her read: "My suspicions on you (Antori) are mostly because of some general anti-town things you said. But I know you are a relatively new player still so it may just be a lack of experience talking and I don't want to run in the same circles every single game."

Just lynch raeko. Don't overthink game.
OK whew ready to end phase whenever now

[ShadoWolfe]

Game isn't realistic. IRL when you have a confirmed gang member you can offer them plea deals (exile from town in exchange for selling out the last mafia) to get them to turn on each other.

[ShadoWolfe]

Pro interrogation tactics and torture sometimes work well too despite being against my own moral code

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I would bet my lunch Raeko is town

Haku is obviously being couched and I don't see Raeko doing that.

I'm biasedly going to say I like Yosh's post on me the least so that he's Haku's partner, and that if I was in final 3 with Yosh this game i vote him 100% of the time over Raeko

This is standing out to me so idk. Otherwise, my thoughts on yoshl are purely tinfoiling. Shado, do you believe then that mellon is capable of coaching haku through a fake cop claim and also letting antori do a fake claim of his own?

[Gradiant]

mellon has had some pretty scummy reactions and otherwise general lack of activity and involvement with the game, but it worries me that the reason it's come down to this was because of scum fake claims where mellon's completely ignored mechanics and yoshl and shado have been obviously paying attention to all of that.