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Old 06-11-2017, 05:11 PM   #1
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Default jTWG LXXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

9 players, 2 wolves 1 tracker 1 watcher rest vt
1 wolf is tracker immune and 1 wolf is watcher immune

Vanilla Town or "VT" is a town aligned role that has no special abilities. It is the most common role in TWG by far. The only real objective a VT has is to find the wolves and kill them (TM Fredrick). VTs win when all wolves have been killed.

Tracker is a town aligned role that can target a player each night. They do this by PMing the game moderator (in this case myself) the name of a living player. At the end of the night phase, I will PM them the name of who that player visited in the night, if anyone. "Visits" are determined by targeted role actions, so:

If Sanzath is the tracker, and targets Hateandhatred, the watcher immune wolf, AND Hateandhatred kills xXOpKillerXx all in the same night, then the result that Sanzath would get will be "Hateandhatred visited xXOpKillerXx"

Tracker wins the game the same way that vanilla towns do.

Watcher is a town aligned role that can target a player each night phase in the same way that the tracker would. At the end of the night phase, I will PM them the name(s) of who visited that player in the night, if anyone.

If Sanzath is the watcher, Hateandhatred is the tracker immune wolf, and xXOpKillerXx is the tracker, and Sanzath, Hateandhatred and xXOpKillerXx all target Rapta on the same night, the result that Sanzath would get would be "Rapta was visited by Hateandhatred and xXOpKillerXx."

Watcher wins the game the same way that Vanilla Towns and the Tracker does.

Tracker Immune Wolf is a wolf aligned role that wins when the number of wolves alive in the game is equal to or greater than the number of town players alive in the game, or when nothing can prevent this from occurring. The Tracker Immune Wolf cannot be targeted successfully by the Tracker, such that:

If Sanzath is the Tracker, and Hateandhatred is the Tracker Immune Wolf, and Hateandhatred kills xXOpKillerXx the same night Sanzath targets Hateandhatred, then the result Sanzath gets would be "Hateandhatred visited no one."

Watcher Immune Wolf is basically a palette swap of the Tracker Immune Wolf, such that:

If Sanzath is the Watcher, and Hateandhatred is the Watcher Immune Wolf, and Hateandhatred kills xXOpKillerXx the same night that Sanzath targets xXOpKillerXx, then the result Sanzath gets would be "xXOpKiller was visited by no one."

In addition to being Watcher and Tracker Immune respectively, the wolves have a nightkill each night phase. They can message the game moderator (myself) privately the name of a town player they wish to nightkill, as well as which wolf they wish to send to make said nightkill. At the end of the night phase, the player that the wolves target will be killed.

The wolves are provided with the ability to communicate privately with one another about game-related decisions in a private chat during the night phases only.

Beneath is some specifications for this game.

KitB: On
OOTC: Off (Exception, Wolfchat)
Nighttalk: Off
Phantoms: Off
Instalynch: On
No lynch/kill: Off
Cardflips: On, Full Role Flips

KitB stands for Knife-in-the-Box. This is in effect when, at the end of a day phase, there is no lead candidate for the lynch, and there is instead a 2-way (or greater) tie for the lynch. When this occurs, the game moderator uses random.org to break the tie.

If Sanzath and Rapta have 3 votes at the end of a day phase, and no one else has a greater number of votes, then the game moderator uses random.org to decide who dies between Sanzath and Rapta.

If Sanzath and Rapta have 2 votes, but Hateandhatred has 3, then Hateandhatred is lynched.

If Sanzath, Rapta and Hateandhatred have 3 votes each, and no one else has a greater number of votes, then the game moderator uses random.org to decide who dies between Sanzath, Rapta and Hateandhatred.

OOTC stands for Out-of-Thread-Communication. This means PMing other players on FFR or some other private place (such as Discord) and discussing game-related things, such as your opinions/reads/thoughts on the game. There are no exceptions to the rule unless you are a wolf talking to the other wolf in the designated private chat during a night phase.

Nighttalk refers to the playerbase's ability to talk in the game thread during the night phase. This is rarely allowed to take place. Game-related discussion is to take place in the thread during day phases only.

Phantoms are extra votes that are sometimes given to players as a penalty for not voting during a day phase. These are rarely seen on FFR.

Instalynch (Instant Lynch) is a game mechanic that occurs when a majority of living players are voting for the same person. When this happens, the day phase ends immediately and that person is lynched.

If there are 9 players alive, and 5 of them are voting for Wayward Vagabond, then Wayward Vagabond is instalynched.

If there are 8 players alive, and 4 of them are voting for Wayward Vagabond, then Wayward Vagabond is NOT instalynched.

If there are 8 players alive, and 5 of them are voting for Wayward Vagabond, then Wayward Vagabond is instalynched.

No lynch/kill refers to the ability of the playerbase and wolfteam, respectively, to choose whether or not they want to lynch someone in a day phase or kill someone during a nightphase. If I do not get a PM from the wolfteam with a nightkill, then I will random.org the kill between all living town players as well as which wolf makes the nightkill, as it is not possible for there to be no nightkill in this setup.

Cardflips refer to what information, if any, is given to the living players upon the death of a player. In this instance, I will reveal the dead player's alignment (town/wolf) as well as their exact role (VT, Tracker, Watcher, Tracker Immune Wolf, Watcher Immune Wolf).


1) Sanzath Tracker Immune Wolf, Won at Endgame
2) Hateandhatred Tracker, Killed N3
3) xXOpKillerXx Vanilla Town, Lynched D3
4) Rapta tiloco217 Vanilla Town, Lynched D2
5) Wayward Vagabond Watcher, Killed N2
6) Hakulyte Vanilla Town, Lost at Endgame
7) andy-o24 Watcher Immune Wolf, Lynched D1
8) XelNya Vanilla Town, Lynched D0
9) Xiz Vanilla Town, Killed N1
-------------------
Replacements
1) tiloco217
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Well, I guess I did not expect the game to end like this.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Wow Sanzath holy shit
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

You progressed a lot since AN.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Night actions were:

N1:
Andy kills Xiz
H&H Tracks Haku, Haku visits no one
WV Watches Haku, Haku visited by H&H (I didn't tell him the correct thing until n2, I mistakenly told him that Haku was visited by no one for a bit there)

N2:
Sanzath Kills WV
H&H Tracks WV, WV visits OpKiller
WV Watcher Opkiller, OpKiller visited by no one

N3:
Sanzath Kills H&H
No action from H&H
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

sorry for the replacing out, unexpected plans, which is rare for me.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

A couple small things

I don't think in f3 you need to be thinking about how good/bad/ok/not ok anyone played. When you do, its not really helping anything. I think you played actually pretty well Op, you were the first to have the team of Sanzath/Andy, and you did this after posting a lot of logical connections, mostly discarding it, and talking about how the situation felt to you.

I get that these forums games feel pretty slow, and especially in final three it can feel like they are going to last forever, but suicide, especially when the game is on the line is not really acceptable. Yes, you are right that winning a game because of a Knife in the Box is essentially meaningless, moreso if players let it happen, but even when faced between those two decisions, you still should let it play out. Yes, a win means basically nothing, especially because of Haku's play there, but that's what postgame is for. Here, we can talk about what happened, what was good, what was bad, etc.

Which brings me to it being an absolutely terrible play to say that you're letting a KitB happen. Clearly, you were going for some reaction test stuff at the end there with the fake-vote Haku, and that's good, but in small doses. You pushed Op too far at the end there. If wins are decided by random.org, what does it mean? It feels pretty gross for whoever wins, for the most part, and that's pretty awful for the game. Sanzath played a pretty great game, and by all means, he probably should've ended up winning most final threes that play out. So by letting it go to a KitB, you're kind of messing with one of the more satisfying parts of the game. Yes, we're here to have fun and to learn the game, but losing through something that is not meant to decide a game is a pretty awful feeling.

I'm going to be pretty light on the criticism here, you are mostly first-time forum players here, so I think I understand a lot of why things happened here. I will just say this, mainly because I think I have to, but suiciding is not acceptable when you get into non jTWG games.

I'll go into individual assessments now, but I feel like I had to cover those bases first.

Also, in the same boat, you can't lynch someone because you think its funny, you need to also have reasons for that. This is mostly at Sven, though.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Sanz did a really good job wolfing considering I think this is his first forum game ever?
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Sunfan did a good job crystallizing a lot of what I was thinking.

Op played that eod about as well as I could've imagined except for the suicide ending.

Haku made a godlike read on sanz's game intentions but got spooked by Op's behavior and talked himself out of it.

Hxh played fast and loose which is both good and bad, at least it made reading your intentions easy, even if for a large portion of the game they made no sense xD.

The ending made me so sad
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

neat game to watch
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

I know that when i'm hosting, in situations like that, kitb will always go in favor of scumteam, because it's such a copout

sanzath not trusting hxh in final 5 should have thrown some red flags imo

also, please do remember that when night talk is off, that means *all posts*
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

on the f3 though: haku, you really need to be able to make a decision

even if you're really unsure, you have to lean at least one way or the other. if you're not, then something is very, very wrong.

from the bit that I read of the f3, op seemed much more passionate about having sanz lynched as opposed to vice versa. sanz was kind of just hanging out and "shooting the shit" for lack of a better term. I think that makes it quite clear; if you didn't see that, reread a few times and see if it pops out. if not, I can point to a few posts that gave me that impression
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

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The ending made me so sad
I am sorry for that, I tried my best. Sunfan really described my feelings well.
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:06 PM   #14
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Sanzath- Pretty sick wolf play. I agree with the assessment that it was pretty tough to pair you with andy based on how the situation unfolded. Very level-headed posting throughout, and I think that your posts had a pretty relaxed feel to them once it got down to final three. I rarely, rarely praise voting for a wolf partner unless you have no other choice, but I think this situation is an exception because it was a game-winning play. I think the praise here is deserved. The discussions we had about TWG in wolfchat show that you're a smart player, and I definitely look forward to seeing you in future games. There's not a lot for me to criticize here; I think all the nightkills were correct; Xiz is fine because he's sometimes a power role and you get the strongest player out of the game, after that, it was basically mechanics. I'd be interested to see whether or not you were right about Sven laying a trap for you, because I think you were actually off-base about that, I think he just thought you were town.

Hateandhatred- I was pretty surprised by how you played this game. I mean, Sven plans (TM) aside and all, most of which were pretty not-great, and will never work on anyone but a new player, the subtle stuff you were doing, like trying to trick and trap people into corners was much higher level gameplay than I was expecting from you. I cannot compliment lynching a player because you think it would be funny, though. The track on Haku is fine, you thought he was being weird, something everyone from Quebec seemed to think. The track on Wayward Vagabond, I was really surprised by, because its not something that most new players realize, but even though you gain almost no information from that track, its still more than you would gain from literally all other tracks, so it is the best. All in all, I was pleasantly surprised by the way you approached this game... most of the time. I almost vomited when I saw you proposing an all-Quebec alliance. Plz don't do that again.

OpKiller- Mostly said my thoughts about the suicide at the end, so I want to focus on the other aspects. You had the read on Sanzath, for a while actually, that he was a wolf. When in final five, letting the confirmed town in hateandhatred decide the lynch is a situationally correct play, it really depends on whether or not the confirmed town wants to make the lynch or not. Clearly, he wanted it, so I don't really think its your fault that tiloco got lynched there. So, final three. You were constantly confused by Hakulyte throughout the entire game, and final three was no exception. I can say this here for the most part, but this really is standard Hakulyte play, every time he was saying that "this is what I do when I am town," I believe he was telling the truth every time. Now, I say this not to say "You were wrong," but so you can understand that Hakulyte when he is playing TWG is basically a crazy person. Its very hard to understand where he is coming from for anyone in the game with him. This really is the time where you need to both break out why you thought Sanzath is a wolf, as well as why you Hakulyte should be reading you town. I think you did the second about as well as you could've given the situation, and I'm not even sure Haku would've cared about the first, but it is something that you need to try and do in a final three situation. It probably feels like I'm being hard on you with this writeup, and maybe its true, but I see potential within you. The read you made on andy/Sanzath being the wolf team was right for the right reasons, and you made it very, very quickly. That was a tough read to get to, and you should be proud of that. Take that from this game, take is with the bad of course, but you really should be proud of how you made that read.

Rapta- Life happens. 'Nuff said. Play outside of that was pretty standard; short questions where you wanted them to be. I think what it came down to was you just weren't active enough to maintain the level of towniness you achieved early-game, and again, that happens.

tiloco- Not much to say, not much you could've done. Made it clear where you stood and took the lynch.

WV- Good watch on Haku for the reasons I said earlier, sorry I fucked up that result. Interesting to see you take on the mould of one of the more experienced players in a game, and I think you wore it well. Not much to criticize here, I think the watch on OpKiller is probably worse than a watch on Sven, but it didn't really matter at that point.

Hakulyte- I've said most of it already. I do want to praise you for not posting insanely often like I know you're capable of in a jTWG game, because it really would be too much for a game like this. I think this style suits you. I get a decision in f3 being hard, and I want to say that I think its the right thing to do to interact with the players in f3 as much as you feel like you need to... up to a point. If you keep reaction testing people like this, you can end up pushing them too far. You have to remember what kind of game is being played here; a mental one. You really can make people just lose their minds for a little bit, and I think that's kind of what happened when after all that interaction, all the reaction tests, all the rereading the thread, you decided to leave it up to random.org. You just can't do that to a player and have them be ok with it. I hate saying how I would've felt in certain game situations, because I am not the "every-man" so to speak, but I really would've been livid if I saw you say that in a final three I was in. Aside from that, your reads, even when they were right, had, at best, questionable reasoning. Thinking Sanzath was a wolf because he appeared to be town is... nonsensical at best. I think when you're making reads like that, you're making what is, essentially, the worst kind of read you can have. AA is right that Op, at the end mainly, did have some very emotionally appealing posts that very, very, very rarely come from a new wolf trying to win, and I think you should revisit them, as well as some of the reads you made late-game. Also, when there was a counterclaim, you are one of the more, if not the, most experienced player left in the game, and there wasn't really a clear sense of what people needed to do (though they mostly figured it out), and I think that that is the situation where you need to step up and explain what needs to be done.

Andy- Ballsy counterclaim. I think its not the best idea, if it works, its beautiful, but I don't really think either you or Sanzath was high on the chopping block that day, and that a town probably eats the lynch. It really backfired as a result. I think the early-game discussion in wolfchat between you and Sven was mostly on point, so good job there. The Xiz kill was a pretty good kill if you're not going to try to kill a power role.

Xel- I think your style was too overbearing to new players. When new players see someone calling them idiots and such, what's really the best thing that's going to come from that for you? Basically what happened its what's going to happen almost all of the time.

Xiz- U suck <3. Thanks for not taking over the game I guess??? You were never going to do it anyways. I don't really know if I agree with voting Xel, but w/e.
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

greg you should do these for normal TWGs too
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

can we see wolfchat?
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

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Originally Posted by AragakiAyase View Post
greg you should do these for normal TWGs too
lotta work, used to

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can we see wolfchat?
yes, if you have discord

https://discord.gg/tfvMZJ5
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FFR is a pretty good place somehow.
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

Its just so much goddamn work, and these are kind of substandard imo. I really wish I had taken notes so I could say some things a bit better, and I know I missed some things as a result of not taking notes on things I wanted to talk about here.

EDIT: I mean, I really like teaching, and I can say words about TWG into a void forever, but I really only got a limited amount of those in me, I think.
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TWG Stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

FFR is a pretty good place somehow.

Last edited by the sun fan; 06-11-2017 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

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Its just so much goddamn work, and these are kind of substandard imo. I really wish I had taken notes so I could say some things a bit better, and I know I missed some things as a result of not taking notes on things I wanted to talk about here.
I was gonna say this. Sometimes when I host i just turn into a vote count bot and ignore most conversation. Is it more work than finishing the TWG stats??
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: jTWG LXXI I Got Nothin' Postgame Thread

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Is it more work than finishing the TWG stats??
lmfao
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