Suicide.

[euphoriakisses]

Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem. If suicide crosses your mind, I don't think of it as selfish, I just think the person is truly unhappy and would rather have their life end than to put up to with any pain they may be suffering. You also shouldn't judge anyone who has thoughts like this unless you truly know why they want it and what caused them to make a decision like this (but even then, I think it's wrong to judge.)

Best bet (if you know someone who has suicidal thoughts) is to try and help them, comfort and be someone they can trust. In most cases, people who have suicidal thoughts feel alone or abandoned and has had a lot of terrible things happen (or they even brought all these terrible things on themselves) to them. It's not the right solution and never will be.

[G.S.M]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

You can either think 1 of 2 things about people who are suicidal:

1) People are like you, in that they feel there is never any reason for hopelessness. And yet here they are, feeling hopeless. That implies that there are situations that even you could be put in, where hopelessness will nevertheless happen. That means that your ideas about hopelessness are plainly wrong, or else the person wouldn't be suicidal in the first place.

2) People aren't like you, in that they do feel there are reasons for hopelessness. Since the person isn't like you though, then anything you say about not ever being hopeless isn't going to be valid to those people, and so they're going to think your babble about weak vs strong is total BS. You sound like an arrogant idiot, and you're hurting, not helping the situation, because you're one more person to dislike in the world, one more pretentious person who thinks that everyone should be and act like you.

In either case, you're just wrong that there's never any reason to be hopeless, and furthermore, you are actually hurting your point about thinking that suicide is wrong, not helping it.

Wow you should read your entire post. You come off as a complete and utter idiot. Basing it off a few posts you suddenly know me.

"one more pretentious person who thinks that everyone should be and act like you. "

Honestly, you're just talking out of your ass now. I have not once said people should be and act like me, rofl. I'm so sorry if I say people shouldn't give up hope... sure just let them die... who cares, right? Of course I want everyone to be strong so they DON'T kill themselves, but that is not the case, obviously.


2) People aren't like you

ok


1) People are like you, in that they feel there is never any reason for hopelessness. And yet here they are, feeling hopeless. That implies that there are situations that even you could be put in, where hopelessness will nevertheless happen. That means that your ideas about hopelessness are plainly wrong, or else the person wouldn't be suicidal in the first place.

Hopelessness clearly is there, herp derp. My point was is that people shouldn't give up, people do, but there will always be that extra option there, it does not need to be suicide.

I have been placed in situations where I should've been hopeless. I dealt with it, moved on and pushed forward. Not everyone can do that I understand but with a helping hand it can be somewhat alleviated. I do think suicide is idiotic, would you want a family member to kill themselves because they thought it was hopeless when it really wasn't? Some people plainly give up because they're weak even with a loving family around them... but they don't want to hurt them with these thoughts and what not when they obviously hurt them even more by killing themselves. People kill themselves over dumb things, those people are stupid, there are people that kill themselves over serious things, they gave up.

what about people with no one? people with no one usually shut themselves off from the world. I won't pretend to understand every aspect of people like this

These aren't ideas, these are my thoughts on the matter. I clearly will not go and find people who are suicidal and call them morons for thinking of it.

Should I have given up on my friend then because of my thoughts? I do feel suicide is idiotic, true. But that doesn't mean I don't care or don't try to help. and yes he knows my thoughts on it. Shit, he tried to kill himself in my house at one point (at least he tried with a comb which clearly cannot kill someone), I think you don't understand at all. I was so pissed off when he told me, thinking he just wanted attention or something for a split second (I hate people who do things just to get attention, but I know him and knew it was serious), but his thoughts were there and I helped him through it because i don't give up on friends or people.

I have read other of your CT posts in other threads, and some of the time you sound ignorant. In this case, very much so. Everyone has different views from mine, obviously, but I'm not gonna sit here and listen to your ignorance about me and what YOU THINK I mean. though you may have misunderstood me, who knows

[G.S.M]

clearly I am not typing it out the way I want it to be.

that story is pretty over the top and not everyone experiences something as extreme as that. very ridiculous, I never said it would be easy nor did I ever say they should just forget everything just like a flick of the switch. I also never said no one has experienced pain and suffering.

would it be selfish/dumb to end your life, and with it the torture and killing of any number of innocent babies?
who wouldn't? but that's not the kind of suicide that I am talking about here. any sane person would save innocent lives if that was the only way

i just don't give up on people i don't know what else I can say

i don't know if that last sentence was directed at me but just in case it was I was never picked on at school (and if I was I didn't stand for it), nor do i ever become emo and I think it would be pretty stupid of me to think I'm a hero which I clearly am not.


more ignorance (directed at the last sentence) everyone has a different opinion

[kaiten123]

i think you missed my point (to be fair i was incredible indirect). there are situations in which suicide is the best option. this is a fact and denying it is retarded.

basically, once you admit that your previous points about things NEVER being hopeless and suicide ALWAYS being bad become invalid and its only a matter of where the boundaries are. its not about IF suicide is ever reasonable, its about WHEN suicide becomes reasonable.

and my last sentence wasn't to be taken literally. i was just pointing out that pretty much everything said so far in this thread only really applies to people killing themselves over petty bullshit (or at least things i would see as petty).

[G.S.M]

its true I was basing it off petty stuff as well as stuff a bit more severe than that (which I believe are the most common of suicides anyways) and only had my mind focused on those points not thinking about "heroic suicides" if you can call it that.

in which case my previous points

but clearly only a person with zero emotion and no humanity would not save x amount of innocent babies, but if it were me I would be asking myself questions at first... what if I kill myself and they die anyways? but if I do kill myself maybe he'll let them live? that would be a battle in my head because I do not want to die but I also don't want innocent babies to die, but what if they do anyways? though I guess there are never any guarantees in a situation like this (well maybe not as extreme but yeah)

i don't think giving up hope applies to certain suicides such as that one

[Kokonoe Rin]

Ok this is a bump since it's a 4 week old topic but I have to speak on this one.

Coming from someone who's been on "suicide watch" in and out of therapy and has attempted suicide twice (yeah you know you fail when you can't even die right) I can confidently say that suicide is a selfish act. Those who are suicidal or getting there (cutters, pill poppers, drug abusers ect.) don't want to hurt, and they don't necessarily want to die, they just want the pain to end, But at the same time when a person undergoes such extreame pain and feelings of hopelessness it just feels like no one cares and those that say they do, at this point, it doesn't help. At this level of low you want but you don't want. You hurt for whatever reason but you don't really know what you need in your life to fix it, and even if you think you do, if you were to actually hear what you needed to hear or receive what you needed to receive it's too late. The pain has almost become second nature to you, hurting yourself has become a habit. My point being is all the painful thoughts that run through your head you've completely forgotten about those that really do care, those that would hurt when you're gone, those that believe it or not need you in their lives. So it is in fact a selfish act, I want to speak a lot more on this but I am currently exhausted and I need to rest, I can always expand on it later.