10-19-2011, 03:44 PM | #4101 | |
FFR Veteran
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
But FN? Come on, that song is a freakin joke. It is the easiest FGO, and I would say that 90 percent of the population would agree with that. Of course I haven't AAA'd it because I suck, but whatever. I am so sick and tired of people rating songs based on the average difficulty. I don't care if the last half of TTE was freakin Trip to the Moon-esque, the hard section(s) alone make it a FGO. Wowzers, I am in a bad mood I see. Sorry for the harsh tone, but seriously... this frustrates me.
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10-19-2011, 03:56 PM | #4102 |
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Re: Ingame Song Information
I'm a bit surprised there isn't a definite, non-negotiable rule for difficulty, like if the nps is higher than a certain amount, or if the notes ÷ song length is high enough it's automatically a ____.
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10-19-2011, 04:10 PM | #4103 |
Sic itur ad astra
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Re: Ingame Song Information
There are too many factors to be able to make a definite song "equation" for difficulty placement. It would be VERY useful if we did have one, but there are simply too many things that play into what difficulty a song is. If you can somehow figure out a way to incorporate everything into an equation, or something along those lines, that will let us decide the difficulty of a song, go ahead.
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10-19-2011, 06:30 PM | #4104 | |
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
Also, according to the scale, Reality is the easiest FGO (if we're talking about PASSING, I say HELL NO) |
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10-19-2011, 06:36 PM | #4105 | |
FFR Veteran
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
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10-19-2011, 06:46 PM | #4106 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Ingame Song Information
just because there's nothing comparable to a certain file doesn't mean it's FGO; there is a such thing as the highest of a difficulty, like Over a Frail Dream being the only 9 with huge extended 200 BPM 16th runs.
and Tageri is not a mid-12, not even close. sorry, but TTE isn't a 12; the 48ths are implied jumptrills at 185 BPM, which really isn't horribly fast for something that's only 7 notes. If I were to take TTE's patterns and change it to what most people are cheating the patterns as, it would look absolutely nothing like a 12. Last edited by TC_Halogen; 10-19-2011 at 06:49 PM.. |
10-19-2011, 07:38 PM | #4107 | |
FFR Veteran
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
And by jumptrills I was referreing to the one handed jump trills that precede the burst. That is very difficult to time correctly, and then immediately you have to hit those awkward "burst like" patterns before the fast "roll", aka jumptrill. I dunno..... screw terminology and numbers, all I know is that I have a ton of trouble with the song despite it having a lot of patterns I would consider myself pretty good at.
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10-20-2011, 12:30 AM | #4108 | |
<3 Jumpstream <3
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Re: Ingame Song Information
If you want to talk about how TTE's hard parts aren't enough to make it a 12, then For FFR isn't a 10. Strangeprogram isn't an 11. Going on Spring Wind isn't an 11. the list goes on and on and on.... Hard Parts are what make the song hard. I don't care if its for 5 seconds to 5 minutes. The fact that TTE's beginning to middle section of the song is incredibly difficult to master. Just like 4 Chord Touhou or He's a Rad Rat. He's a rad rat is by far harder then TTE (imo) but that stays as an 11 (for some odd reason) If you want to base off of players scores, Reality I have gotten a BF on it. He's a Rad Rat my best is like 8 goods recently. Frictional Nevada - 3 goods or lower. TTE - 6-1-0-1. So basically that's saying Rad Rat is the hardest based off of my scores. Which, honestly, might not be far off to be truthfully honest.
Just like Kanon Kanon. The BPM and chart style make that song hard enough to where it could be an 11. Since that song to me is harder than GoSW/Choprite.... imo. Either which way, the hard parts make the song difficult. AJ, look at Byrons song in the first round "Crimson Crescent" That song is a FFR scale 9. Just because of the trills, it was brought up to what a 35/36? Point proven. Hard parts jack up difficulty, as they should. Quote:
Last edited by krunkykai22; 10-20-2011 at 01:01 AM.. |
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10-20-2011, 01:06 AM | #4109 |
shots FIRED
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Not to mention, the hard parts of TTE occurs within the first half of the song. Hard climaxes in the latter half of songs tend to be more difficult to play through perfectly.
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10-20-2011, 01:24 AM | #4110 | |
Retired Staff
All the things
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
Our system accounts for files that are border and such. With a 1 - 13 scale you can't achieve this. And I'm sorry but I don't believe a 5 second difficulty spike means that a file should go up in difficulty. Now as for why I came into this thread, I lost the list I had started for a 1 - 100 scale when my harddrive had it's freakout. So I'll have to start all over again. |
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10-20-2011, 11:42 AM | #4111 |
<3 Jumpstream <3
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Kayla - You're right and you basically agreed with what I said. Crimson Crescent shouldnt be rated what it is then. Just because of the middle jumpjack second then doesn't make it a high difficulty song then right? Basically that should have been rated a 9 in FFR Scale.
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10-20-2011, 12:34 PM | #4112 |
🥓<strong><span style="col
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Just remove it >.> I'm sick of all the debates over that one song lolol. Why don't we just melt down and take out the hard parts like we did when we ruined pain night grand tin?
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10-20-2011, 06:51 PM | #4113 |
<3 Jumpstream <3
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Lol remove it. That wouldn't be the modest thing to do now would it? :P
Just end the debate with a vote lol how about that? Take a community vote 11/12 and there you go. |
10-20-2011, 07:07 PM | #4114 |
stepmania archaeologist
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Re: Ingame Song Information
So Crowdpleaser is a 10? (IMO difficulty spikes are very important, even more so in a combo scoring game like this one if they are hard to combo. TTE's definitely qualify, especially if we include the weird burstglut before the second roll.)
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10-20-2011, 07:09 PM | #4115 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Ingame Song Information
let's just ditch the rating system altogether.
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10-20-2011, 07:11 PM | #4116 |
Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
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Re: Ingame Song Information
I still think some sort of score-based algorithm should be implemented to auto-assign difficulties to files. It would end so many useless debates at the minor cost of slightly lowering the true difficulty of some files that have way more plays than others around the same difficulty level.
Something like averaging the top ten scores on a file and assigning this value a weight of 0.5. Then taking the 25th, 50th, 100th, and 200th scores and assigning each of these a weight of 0.125 (the weights and ranks used here are just for illustration purposes, they can be anything). The 'mean' score is then calculated and the file is assigned a number from 1-100 based on what this score is. Then all we need to do is determine which values should be grouped under which difficulty headings (i.e. 77-86 = auto-assigning the song to FMO, 57-66 = C, etc.) However, since some files have a scoreboard of 200+ AAAs, perhaps this particular system should only be used for VCs and above. Files that already have 200+ AAAs could use a separate system where the 500th, 1,000th (perhaps even 5,000th and 10,000th?) scores are taken into consideration (slightly lowering the weighting applied for each successive rank since some scores will inevitably get pretty damn sloppy the further we go down). Again, just playing with rank values right now, they can be anything. The only problem would be presented with some files, such as Reality, that were whored to absolute shit, which would probably assign these files with a value much lower than what it should be. However, with the passage of time (and players getting more scores on those other not-whored-so-much files), the affected difficulties would gradually work themselves towards a much more accurate rating. /2cents |
10-20-2011, 07:16 PM | #4117 |
stepmania archaeologist
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Going by ranks themselves is bad because then it means the popularity of a song will directly affect its "difficulty". New songs, songs that are not fun to actually play, and songs that are hard to unlock (secret, purchased, token) will all be rated significantly higher than they should be.
I still like my old idea of comparing the community's scores on two songs to see which one people tend to score better on; too bad I don't have access to the full high score tables, so I wouldn't be able to do a mockup of the idea to show how it'd work in practice.
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10-20-2011, 07:20 PM | #4118 |
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Yeah, I took that into consideration as well.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should try to work towards creating some sort of script for FFR that'll take care of issue for us as accurately as possible instead of relying on public opinion. If your idea accomplishes this, hell, I'm game. P.s. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what you want to do and I really like it edit: I'm not entirely sure but I think we might run into problems with that idea unless we set a restriction to use only the most active members that have played almost every file in-game? Although we probably already have a pretty solid number of players who meet this criterion....I don't know, this might not even be a problem, you're probably thinking of formulating the script differently from what I'm envisioning Last edited by One Winged Angel; 10-20-2011 at 07:27 PM.. |
10-20-2011, 07:23 PM | #4119 |
D6 FFR Legacy Player
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Re: Ingame Song Information
@OWA: In order to do this, we would first need a list of about 3-5 files which portrays the difficulty of the song most accurately for each of the following difficulties: easy VCs, mid-VCs, harder VCs, easier FMOs, mid-FMOs, harder FMOs, easier FGOs, mid-FGOs, and harder FGOs. That way, we can have a basic idea of the potential difficulties of the other files. An ideal list is one that challenges a player in all patterns, ranging from jacks, to speed, to jumpstream, etc.
From there, we can derive a formula to determine an accurate rating of the difficulty of the file. Of course this formula won't be perfect, but it can be tweaked as more files appear on the engine. Also, we would need to determine what makes a particular file harder than others. Is it necessarily AAA count? Is it the patterns shown in the file? We need to make this list so that we can consider everything in our proposed formula. Last edited by iironiic; 10-20-2011 at 07:25 PM.. |
10-20-2011, 09:30 PM | #4120 | |
stepmania archaeologist
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Re: Ingame Song Information
Quote:
Hm, what makes you say that? It's an interesting idea but I'm not sure it will be necessary. My idea was to essentially use anyone who's done well enough on both songs (say, <50 boos on a full playthrough, or something like that) but it's entirely possible that we'd need to add in some extra constraints as well to get good numbers.
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