Censorship

[moches]

Originally Posted by massflavour

are you saying if someone has an opinion you don't like then they shouldn't have the right to be heard? dang.

Are you saying racists have a right to be heard?

[devonin]

Krunkykai:

... ... ... ... ...

Please stop overusing and misusing the poor ellipsis. It represents where you have ommitted text from an existing piece of text. It isn't supposed to be a pause, there are commas, semicolons and periods for that. We use them as a pause now and then, which is wrong but okay (I do it too sometimes) but seriously, all you did was make your thoughts disconnected, jumped, and very hard to read.

now in our government and with our society the way it is ... again correct me if im wrong, but ... that means no one can say a word pretty much ... when it comes to other countries

Sure I can. I can say anything I like about another country, where did you get the idea that freedom of speech doesn't allow me to state an opinion about foreign affairs?

devonin ... you will learn that soon enough your country will turn into the same exact way as the united states

I vehemently disagree. Every year a history professor at the university I attend asks his class to provide the three things they think most identify canadians. For the past 15 years in every class he has gotten the same three answers: "hockey" "beer" "being not the United States"

if barrack obama comes to presidency this country will flee ... i live in new jersey and everyone here is rooting for mccain ... they have stated they will flee to canada if obama becomes president

I think it is ridiculous for you to suggest that censorship is bad and also that people will leave if a democrat enters office. Traditionally republicans are the most eager to curtail rights.

btw ... what i said right there is conflicting with freedom of speech/expression

No it isn't.

Are you saying racists have a right to be heard?

There's a point I like to raise in certain discussions about people's right to an opinion. You hear people say "Everybody has the right to express their own opinion" but frankly that is nonsense. Everyone has a right to express their own informed opinion. Racism is such an inherantly ignorant and misinformed behavior that no, censorship entirely aside, I don't believe such an attitude has a right to be expressed.

[darkness1477]

Originally Posted by devonin

I think it is ridiculous for you to suggest that censorship is bad and also that people will leave if a democrat enters office. Traditionally republicans are the most eager to curtail rights.

it not because he a democrat it because he black

and censorship is a really effictive way for goverments to get hat they want and protect whats important to them.

i doubt that china would ever want to be like america since there trying to kill us off giving us poisunes toys, giving us clothes with microscopic parisites on them and all the other crap they give us, besides they can only dream of achieving a level of super cool awsomeness that we have achieved here in the states.

[Tokzic]

this thread is full of people who should not be in ct

Censorship is ridiculous. There are no thoughts that should not be heard, and the concept of someone else deciding what's appropriate for me to hear is insulting. If a government can't handle criticism, then they've lost track of what the meaning of government is.

[devonin]

Censorship is ridiculous. There are no thoughts that should not be heard, and the concept of someone else deciding what's appropriate for me to hear is insulting.

Some censorship isn't about closing your ears, it's about closing someone else's mouth.

I am perfectly okay with racism being punishable by law as hate speech and other similar protective limits on speech.

I gues what it means is "Anybody should be allowed and able to say anything they want, and then we can decide once the words come out of their mouth, whether we want to punish them for it" and I do grant that there are certain things one can say in certain arenas that should not be protected as free speech.

[darkness1477]

who are we to judge what someone says

[krunkykai22]

Ok, number one i am democratic, however, i feel as if obama would be an obscene threat to our society. I mean for crying out loud, its been stated that he was caught associating with terrorists. I'm not against democrats, just out of line ones.

Second, I had stated that " WE can not say anything about other countries " only because we have no room to speak at all. We're screwed up from the get go, why talk about other countries.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by meno_rocks123

Europe- "WE're going to be dicks and not expand the borders of your colonies"
USA- "**** you" *bang bang*

Actually it was more like,

England: "we're going to excessively tax you."
Colonies: "what the ****, man. ;_; C'mon."
Thomas Paine: "America stop being such pussies."
Colonies: "K."

Originally Posted by devonin

I am perfectly okay with racism being punishable by law as hate speech

Why?

[Verruckter]

Originally Posted by moches

Are you saying racists have a right to be heard?

Technically yes. That doesn't mean you have to listen to them. You should also use what they say against them, and make your own mind about what they claim. In other words, you can become a better person by actually listening to a racist/hateful person, because you know what not to think or say and you can make your own reflections.

I don't believe in any form of censorship. People need to stop making everything taboo or being retardely overprotective. Teach yourselves how to discern the good from the bad.

[devonin]

Why?

Because complete and total ignorance that has the potential to poison the minds of the unwary just has no business being spread around.

[Netjet!]

That may be true, but does it matter if word spreads of people "dissing" different races? It's called ignoring the ignorant people. If you try to make it punishable, more people will do it, and there will be a huge revolt or something. Just ignore the ignorant.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by devonin

Because complete and total ignorance that has the potential to poison the minds of the unwary just has no business being spread around.

But don't feel that people should be allowed to hear both sides of an argument and judge for themselves what's best?

Also, to the speaker spreading the racism, it isn't ignorance.

[devonin]

But don't feel that people should be allowed to hear both sides of an argument and judge for themselves what's best?

Also, to the speaker spreading the racism, it isn't ignorance.

I don't feel that "The sky is green and the grass is made of lava" should get equal time or be considered "the other side" of anything. Some things are simply ignorant and incorrect.

[lord_carbo]

Who says they'd get equal time? There are far more people who are against racism than for it. In any real situation, you'll hear more comments for it than against it, especially if you yourself become such a racist.

And there is certainly another side. It may be ignorant. But it is not objectively "incorrect." It's an opinion, no matter how unfavorable it is, and it certainly has another side.

People are incorrect all the time. Why punish only certain people who are incorrect and ignorant?

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by IMM lol

racism being punishable by law as hate speech....

Pretty sure Your a Joke bro

It's a good idea to stay a bit more open-minded than that. Or at least pretend to be more open minded, heh.

[devonin]

But it is not objectively "incorrect."

I disagree. There are absolutely no valid bases (basises?) for racist thought. It is simply wrong by every standard of science, reason and logic. Do you seriously think there are any even remotely compelling supports for the concept that certain races of human are intrinsically -better- or -worse- than other ones?

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by devonin

I disagree. There are absolutely no valid bases (basises?) for racist thought. It is simply wrong by every standard of science, reason and logic. Do you seriously think there are any even remotely compelling supports for the concept that certain races of human are intrinsically -better- or -worse- than other ones?

What I believe to be compelling support is irrelevant because it could be support enough for somebody else. I am absolutely convinced that people who are socialists are wrong and have absolutely no valid defense for opposing capitalism. And I believe what they say to be harmful.

So what's the basis of punishing people for saying something if they are wrong? Why only punish people who say certain wrong things?

[devonin]

So what's the basis of punishing people for saying something if they are wrong? Why only punish people who say certain wrong things?

Because the reasons for being a socialist, to many capitalists, are merely naive or perhaps even foolish. The reasons for being a racist are objectively, unequivocablly ignorant and wrong. Please provide a compelling list of reasons why you could argue that white people are superior to black people say. Like, objectively -better- as beings solely because of their race.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by devonin

Because the reasons for being a socialist, to many capitalists, are merely naive or perhaps even foolish. The reasons for being a racist are objectively, unequivocablly ignorant and wrong.

I'd consider socialists "objectively wrong" as well as "naive." And I'd say the same for racists. If we're going to start punishing some people who are wrong, why not go all the way? I don't see any reason why one should get special treatment.

Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

[ballaw hare]

Originally Posted by devonin

Because the reasons for being a socialist, to many capitalists, are merely naive or perhaps even foolish. The reasons for being a racist are objectively, unequivocablly ignorant and wrong. Please provide a compelling list of reasons why you could argue that white people are superior to black people say. Like, objectively -better- as beings solely because of their race.

Because right and wrong are subjective and are decided by the majority.