TWG CIV: Postgame

[Xiz]

It worked really well for ya haha. Luckily you killed everyone who was active this game in terms of thought provoking posts, and you were able to glide to victory.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by pntballa18

I completely lost interest just before thanksgiving. I think part of the reason was the IP sharer plan. Yeah, it was a good plan, and it would be [/was] stupid of us to not follow it, but it made the game seem so procedural. Yeah, we could've stuck with the plan and attempted to have everyone log on and vote themselves or whatever on day 4, but it wasn't really a fun plan. Mind you, I didn't make a conscious decision to stop playing, but when I realized that was pretty much where the game was going, I just wasn't really all that interested anymore.

yeah inactivity was also in response to that plan.

[FictionJunction]

remove masons and OOTT, alliance problem solved.

[pntballa18]

agreed. this game pretty much confirmed that I enjoy forum-only games more.

[j-rodd123]

why didn't you guys kill silvuh there.....

[Xiz]

It was just like last game with me.

What's that? RSD and T-force came out?!? Better kill Xiz!!!

I really don't understand the logic that has been used in the past games

[Riotpolice]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

@Riotpolice hahahahaha it would seem that I may have been slightly wrong, maybe. I had a ton of fun trying to "corner" you on skype, and I hope you did too. nothing personal whatsoever <3

Oh man, I knew you had a ton of information against me, it was so hard to not say to you that I was a blue because I seered you red. I didn't want to give away my position, so I really ended up sounding like the MW when I was responding to you. It was ugly, yes but necessary the way you kept grinding me into the ground on Skype. I think I'll join in thread games from now on, the inactivity was too much. I got sick and I didn't have a computer around on thanksgiving, so that really played well into the wolves hands in terms of inactivity. Unfortunate that the KiTB had to result in my death, that was unexpected.

Charu, I'm sorry we had to sacrifice you for the team. I thought we were gonna win, so that's why I used you to be the fake seer. Yeah, I know my behavior was crazy, I know you'd love to see me be the MW...I tried to make my behavior like that so the wolves would see me as a potential distraction so that they wouldn't look at me as a potential target.

Props to Pntballa, I don't know what was said to convince you, but I know from previous game and this game that he's an excellent speaker and can word things very carefully.

The killing of YMIA was pretty amazing, I told jake to switch his banhammer on him, and I just did that randomly. Never expected to get a wolf, but lol we used that correctly and we got one!

As for my behavior, I think everyone now knows why I acted the way I did, to keep myself from looking blue to the wolves, but to keep enough heat on my back so that the wolves might try and bandwagon on me or something. It was really hard, I'll admit, to try and be in the "middle" and look like everyone else. Many surprises this game, very fun.

*notes

Being put into another power position was kinda draining. I've not been a green, so I don't know what it's like to just be randomly killed by votes or wolves. I wonder how I'd function being a green, I might do something incredibly stupid seeing as a green role doesn't carry much weight except to keep everyone else alive. Very unfortunate we had to lose, we'll just have to make it up next game...

[Charu]

Don't think I didn't see you lurking a lot in the thread, FoJaR, dohoho. Ah well, it is what it is.

But yeah, hopefully next game won't be this bad in terms of inactivity on the later phases. Another holiday is around the corner too, and I really don't want the same thing happening there.

[FoJaR]

yeah i was in the thread so much, and hardly ever posted.

[Charu]

...OH! I forgot to give thoughts on Vendetta because he did play a little before he asked for a replacement.

Major props for him to start some discussions to some players and pressing them hard. I think if this didn't happen day 1, there wasn't going to be much arguing and figuring out who's who. It kind of helped me put pressure on James May. Sorry buddy!

[James May]

Originally Posted by Charu

It kind of helped me put pressure on James May. Sorry buddy!

It's cool, you did what you have to did, no hard feelings.

[FoJaR]

yeah my goal day 1 was to get V lynched.

[Silvuh]

I totally didn't even realize at first how conductive of an alliance this game set-up would be and how awful that was for us. But ... arf. Now I know. This game is a little too thought-provoking, so I definitely need a break.

I didn't expect was that Charu was just a middleman, so I didn't look for a third living alliance member. Didn't suspect Kraut at all, because he wasn't posting like the others, even though that's something I would have used to defend myself as being a part of the alliance: saying that it was a distancing act (which is an easy defense, but it would have been reinforced by the Charu-Riot distancing, which turned out not to be an act).

When I did my fake claim, the stuff I said was honestly what I thought the alliance might have been trying to do ... but because Charu wasn't actually a part of the alliance, it wasn't an intentional effort between them to make Riot look like a bad wolfing target. So, post-game, that was really interesting to see how Charu worked at being the middleman. The V/pnt combination were my favorite players, though. I really liked how V was rallying up the town, and pnt continued with very well-thought-out posts.

In fact, it was in light of V's posts that I first found Funnygurl and YMIA to be suspicious. I wrote up cases against them that I never posted.

About Funnygurl555
Your first post (#63) was a random vote on Riotpolice, seemingly in response to V's call for everyone to have a vote on the board. Because you said it was random though, that ruins its purpose; whoever you vote for will know there's no substance to the vote. My first post (#113) was me finding your next two posts suspicious, and I followed up at the end of my second post (#220) (Your first posts were badly thought-out, and you didn't step your game up in response.) In your post that ninja'd mine (#217), your "if James is blue" comment there was a bit odd, kind of newbish ... which you kind of cleared up later (#231). But then you just made a hasty Xiz vote (#279) and said nothing else.

Your only post during Day Two (#367) said ... that you had no thoughts yet. So that didn't help us.

And then you attempted to piggyback on pntballa (#436) with an important difference: You said, if we eliminate dAnce. Even when it should have been clear in the thread what the sentiment was, you still suggested we should "proceed with caution about what to do with him" (#453). You seemed to take the longest to understand that wasn't what the wait was for.

About YMIA
His first vote at #60 was a random vote, this one on Xiz. His second game-related post #76 mentions "waiting for something blatantly stupid", which misses V's point about making things happen. Would be nice for a wolf to be able to just sit and wait for a town to say something dumb to jump on them without seeming suspicious. YMIA posts again at #143 to explain why a no-lynch would be a bad idea, which I agree with. For the rest of the phase, other than his quick Xiz vote, his posts are either about James or are a reminder of how much time is left. Not very constructive. His three posts in this phase are about his absence.

Here is the Wolf Game Plan that I had written up in case anyone is interested. It didn't consider the possibility of FoJaR getting lynched, because ... that would have been too bad for us. In order of best to worst scenario:

IP Sharer lynched on D5
D4: 9 alive 3-6, insta at 5. Riotpolice should be lynched, because people suspect him to be MW.
N4: 8 alive 3-5, try to wolf alliance member
D5: 7 alive 3-4, insta at 4. No IP check when Riot flips. As soon as one human puts a vote on another human, we should all jump on that vote to get an insta. Svaz seems to be a good target thanks to dAnce's suspicions. Otherwise, one of the IP sharers will throw themselves under the bus and will get lynched.
N5: 6 alive 2-4, wolf whoever.
D6: 5 alive 2-3, insta at 3. MW and IP Sharer vote right away on the same town.

IP sharer lynched on D4
D4: 9 alive 3-6, insta at 5. IP Sharer is lynched.
N4: 8 alive 2-6, try to wolf alliance member (we suspect pntballa18 and Gradiant)
D5: 7 alive 2-5, insta at 4. IP Vote Check. Someone will have to have two votes put on them and then vote on themselves to possibly lynch themselves ... we can still win if any town goes through the check before the IP sharer. The alliance will likely use their votes as a base, so the living IP Sharer must be ready with their vote to insta this town player.
N5: 6 alive 2-4, wolf whoever.
D6: 5 alive 2-3, insta at 3. MW and IP sharer vote right away on the same town for an insta. Make sure this is coordinated with whichever IP sharer is alive, both wolves being awake and in the thread with their vote ready to post as soon as the phase starts. The town will know who the IP Sharer is and will probably be doing the same thing, so we just have to post our two votes before they post their three. Whoever's fastest wins.

Both IP Sharers lynched
D4: 9 alive 3-6, insta at 5. IP Sharer is lynched.
N4: 8 alive, 2-6, try to wolf alliance member.
D5: 7 alive, 2-5, the other IP Sharer is forced to kill themselves.
N5: 6 alive, 1-5, try to wolf another alliance member. Hopefully, there's only one left.
D6: 5 alive, 1-4, insta at 3. Good luck FoJaR, I expect you know what you're doing.

Originally Posted by Charu

Silvuh I felt had a hard time with his wolf game. He played very well, but when the topic came about this game and other specific questions, he was very hesitant and scared, something I don't think Silvuh would do if he was human. I think I saved a seer to Silvuh actually when I died because I was so sure Silvuh was a wolf on Day 3 and told so to the alliance and told them to seer Svaz instead. Oh how I wonder how the game would play if I didn't say anything about Svaz, hahaha.

Silvuh, I feel if you become a bit more comfortable about lying, you'd make the ultimate wolf, because I know you would be really good at making some pretty good convincing lies.

Eheh, arf, thanks for the compliment~ ... But yeah, I kinda whined a lot about how awful my OOT game was (and I was extremely disheartened when the IP Vote Check strategies were revealed, so it took me a while to figure how to make it work for us). OOT chat made it hard to be a shy wolf. So you're totally right about me there, and the people I talked with during my first game could easily tell I was acting differently this time.

When you asked me what my role was in the group chat ... I was like, caught off-guard and then felt dumb for not expecting the question. "I could answer everything else honestly, but great, now I have to lie." Someone hesitating to that question should be more indicative of a new player who doesn't know that the default answer is "Human" (like me) rather than of someone being a wolf because they don't want to lie (also like me).

My mom can always tell when I'm lying because of how uncomfortable I get. But thanks to that, I would actually get to doing my homework in high school, haha.

Originally Posted by Charu

Props to [Kraut] for at least trying to have something happen the last phase so either Funny or Silvuh would get lynched. But unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears because Gradiant I think made an alliance with Silvuh during the last phase!

One of us getting lynched was the plan, yup, especially if I got lynched to make Funnygurl look more human in the process. And yeah, eheh, Jake revealed himself as the Hammer to me after I claimed, and my first thought was "Welp, so he knows I'm a wolf." But um, hope you don't blame yourself for that, Jake, ehe, sorry. *cute guilty face*

So saying anything about how much power the alliance has left is a double-edged sword, because you're trading confidence between the wolves and non-allianced town. I made the alliance look powerless to get people to use their own reasoning more, Kraut I think claimed seer to keep the wolves on their toes.

[Vendetta21]

welp my read on fojar was right

and so was my read on danceguy

everything else was wrong

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

yeah my goal day 1 was to get V lynched.

was it because you thought I would be able to read you or just because you thought it would be fun

[FoJaR]

just because i thought it would be fun.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by Xiz

What's that? RSD and T-force came out?!? Better kill Xiz!!!

I really don't understand the logic that has been used in the past games

dude you gotta let that one go lol. there was a really good reason to keep both of them alive at that time, one I didn't see until it was mentioned. T-Force protected Tokzic and things were also made to look like BDN would be a risky wolfkill target. keeping RSD and T-Force alive that phase almost put the humans in position for a comeback.

anyway sometimes when you do sketchy shit as a green you pay the price l0l









back on topic

@foj: I like that you mentioned fostering inactivity as a wolf tactic here. that's something I kinda forgot was valid and not cheap. it's really not imo. you did gud.

@YMIA: you had me fooooooled again >_>

@silv: I'm not too comfortable with lying quickly, either. practice will help. looking forward to the next time we play together, whenever that may be!



@humanz: any busted fakeclaim should be punishable by death imo

[Charu]

What, I should be punished for fake claiming as a seer?

dance, why you do this? Don't make me sad face.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

honestly sunfan your only mistake was not coming out in thread instantly.

Didn't think of it. My role was virtually useless early game, but I don't think people realize the potential it has if it makes it to late game. The alliance was worth setting up, moreso than hoping to make it to late game, in my opinion though. Anyways, more in-depth stuff.

RP You played a strange game. When you revealed blue to me, I didn't believe it at first. I figured you were a wolf fishing for possible info, or trying to block it somehow. When there weren't any counterclaims, it became obvious that you were the seer, I kinda understood why you were doing what you were. WP changing the vigi to Kevin, and it made sense for you to seer Danceguy instead of Charu, so well played there. Next game, at least there won't be another Thanksgiving. Still don't quite get what you were doing with that test over Skype.

Xiz Only we could've done what we did. I'm sorry I fucked it up for you. Lets both be wolves next game, ok? I really want to see that happen already heh.

Charu You played well, and you did well to get a blue to come out to you that early, thank goodness you weren't a wolf. Serving as the middle man to out a red seering was a very nice strategy, and you played it well. The wolves didn't see it coming.

Some loser You were the miller, so it kinda sucks what happened, but I'm glad that you weren't kept alive at least. You played well, and to your credit, suggested that I start making an alliance (after I had already started doing so hehe). Not really anything I can complain about for you.

Netjet You were busy. You're hella busy, apparently. Sucks that you couldn't play, but your replacement filled in well.

Kraut You and pnt were very key in the blue chat, and you both played masons very well. You had a few important contributions, as well as having to your credit being the only person trying to kill Silvuh on the last day.

Funny You played me HARD over Skype. Damn. I have nothing to say to you other than you had a fantastic first game. Look forward to seeing how you handle future games, now that I know that you don't have the problem with lying that you said you did.

Silvuh I knew you were a wolf just from Skype interactions, and I tried to get you seered instead of gradiant (yeah, a huge misplay from me, I'll explain more about it after I finish the list). Didn't work out, and you played well in the end. If you work on your OOT talk, you'll do very well in future OOT games, if you choose to do so.

V I wish you would've stuck around, I was trying to use what you had said to my ideas to bait wolves over Skype. I advocated a no-lynch solely to gauge your reaction, as well as people's reactions to your reaction, knowing it was a stupid idea that no one would really agree with (other than apparently funnygurl used it to make herself appear noobier). After that, I talked mad smack about you to a few people, but nothing really came out of it. You also drove me crazy going after Jake, making me think you were a duo-role trying to distance yourself from your partner. Oh well.

pnt See what I said about Kraut for the blue-chat stuff, and props to you for getting the alliance together 100% after I was dead. I know I kinda bothered you more than anyone else the way I handled the Xiz situation, and I guess I deserve that. Your interaction with members outside the alliance is particularly noteworthy, as you created a grand illusion of who was and who was not a member of the alliance very well, as well as who was what role.

mellon You didn't say too much, mainly utr. Me talking to you on Skype had you as a human too busy for the game, and I guess I was right about that at least.

James May Talked to you over Skype about the way you played this game, you've got to learn how to defend yourself well. If you play future games, and change the way you've been playing, you're going to end up in a far different place than where you ended up this game. 78 posts of nothing more than "I am green, you all have nothing on me" isn't really helpful.

svaz a bit busy for the game, from what I understand, sorry it worked out that way. Its kind of funny how everyone was suspicious of you, since you were UTR and no one really bothered with Fojar, who was doing the same thing.

Gradiant I fucked up with you. I couldn't convince you that I was the BS detector, and that nearly came back to bite me hard. I must say, people looking at the postcount would say that you didn't do much, but you had a very strong presence in the blue-chat. Still, I must say I expected you to post more.

YMIA I knew you were a wolf, you knew that I knew that you were a wolf, not much else to say here. Glad we got the roleblocker early.

fojar You're a bastard. But you played well. Fostering inactivity proved to cause the downfall of the humans, so gj.

Yeah, I couldn't put the finishing touches on the alliance. I was trying to set it up where players wouldn't know who the other player is until a moment or two before the end of the phase, so that if there was a wolf, they couldn't capitalize on it *that* night. Glad to know that none of you were, and that it was at least set up after I died. Yeah, RP told me that he was gonna seer Jake, I told him "no" but didn't explain my reasons, after I had told him that seering him might be a good idea earlier. I then spent too much time trying to convince Jake that I was the bs detector, and that he could trust the people that had claimed mason to me, and didn't get to tell him to change the seering, then RP's internet went out until after the phase, which is one hell of a disaster, hehe. I would've advocated seering silvuh or kevin, most likely silvuh if I had been smart enough to foresee what was going on. Oh well.

All in all, my favorite game thus far, aside from the ending. Can we not do that again?

[Charu]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

svaz a bit busy for the game, from what I understand, sorry it worked out that way. Its kind of funny how everyone was suspicious of you, since you were UTR and no one really bothered with Fojar, who was doing the same thing.

Nah, the moment I was ultra suspecting her was when I actually was talking to her over Skype during the voting strategy. She was kind of wavering in neutral to me, but when I asked her to vote and unvote, she instantly knew that it was because we were testing and I was like... "wait, wha...?"

That made me raise the red flag to her and I told pnt about my log, haha. Curses, I should've kept my mouth shut because I'm pretty sure their next seer target was Silvuh.