TWG VII Postgame Banter

This was so much fun. Guido, you screwed your team by revealing a bunch of crap to Stretchy. This further reinforces why I think AIM alliances (or IRL alliances, in this case) are a very very bad idea. People need to use their heads and independent thinking.

Props to Stretchy for posting under Alain's name even while he was away for a long long time. None of you people caught on that only one real, living person was left. Brilliant. Gives whole new meaning to the whole transfer-of-consciousness stuff, and lends a bit of irony to the game's ending itself. I guess none of you would have passed the test if this mission were real.

I'm stopping MVP awards because I think they're pretty biased. It's basically based on who's been telling the host he's been doing the most. In reality the host does not have enough information

But mad props to Stretchy for sleeping with the enemy and winning the game. First wolf win ever where one wolf has died and the team has won anyway.

I'm sorry there were so many delays in the end but a) I've been working late nights at McDonalds and coming home exhausted and b) the wolves had it won from Night 5 on. Writing each plot takes at least an hour, the ending plot took 2 and a half to write (as do some of the more critical plots.) I put this much effort into the plot because it gives the game a lot of character (how many FOXHOUND sigs were there during the game?), gives the players a lot to be interested in, and enhances the quality of the game in amazing ways. It's about all the host can do to keep it cool. That's why I think the host should be first and foremost a storyteller and a judge second. There's not a lot the host does besides assign the roles and moderates the game.

When I host the game's sequel (if I can come up with a good way to be original and not rehash this plot), I'll probably have more time to devote to the plot. I loved this story, and I loved writing it every bit of the way. As you can see, the idea changed shape in my head as the plot went on (there was no CIA or KGB involvement in FOXHOUND, despite what my original idea was), and I'd like to have the entire plot written before the game next time. I will not be in contention for running TWG VIII - I need more time to think about it, and I need a break from this crapload of work I put into this game. I love you guys.

BTW, an issue that should be brought to your attention. The reason I had to go reissuing roles to everyone was because Tass started interrogating people about their PMs right off the bat - mere moments after I sent his out. I didn't think this was fair, and I knew it was a clear violation of the rules. I thought we firmly established after TWG V that YOU DO NOT DISCUSS YOUR PM WITH ANYONE, PERIOD. But I guess Tass didn't learn from it. To be fair, I had to reissue the roles. You guys decide what the punishment should be. Since the host from the previous game traditionally handles signups for the next, I'll follow your wishes in running TWG VIII signups.

So, postgame chat, and also voting on that issue.

NO CAMPAIGNING FOR HOST, EITHER. CHECK THE TWG VIII SIGNUPS THREAD FOR CAMPAIGN INFO.

[GuidoHunter]

I sure did screw us over, but I felt it was a risk that I was willing to take. The thought never left my mind that stretchy really was a wolf, and that she was just getting by while she was with me, but I felt I was being realistic in my assumption otherwise. I guess I should have been tipped off when she wouldn't read her PM's in front of me and how she knew who one was from even though I saw one of the popups come up, but I just figured she was a popular person here and got lots of PMs.

Also, my trying to hide information didn't help too much when stretchy auto-signed on my AIM at home and INSTANTLY got IMmed by both of the other masons revealing more information to me. Seriously, though, eyespew, "How goes the masonry?" is not a good salutation.

I apologize to all the humans for my inaction, though. I never once read through this thread critically, so I was just going day to day, voting on whims or just what I could gather from the recent posts. Hell, two TWG days and three nights have passed since I've come here. Anyway, this is because I'm on break, so I'd rather be doing other things than spending time on TWG.

Because of that, I probably won't be participating in the next TWG, since my break extends to the twelfth; I want to help my team, not just be there as another human. This decision may have to do with me getting tired of it, too. I'm not sure of that myself, but we'll see when signups for the TWG after the next comes up.

Regarding Tassel's punishment, I move for a two-game ban for Tassel, which includes playing and hosting. It was a flagrant disregard of the rules and the spirit of the game. I don't care what defense he has, if he's not going to play by our rules, he's not going to play with us at all. Two games sounds fair enough for me; it's long enough to notice (hell, I actually forgot today that I'd sat out a game), but not obscene, and fitting for the crime (I guess).

Anyway, GJ wolves, especially stretchy, since Afro got owned and alain failed to avoid suspicion (as far as I could tell, at least, and I think that was before stretchy took over). Humans, well, we were unlucky.

Until next time.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by Chardish

and not rehash this plot

Haha, but the real creators of MGS do it! =P

Anywho, I hope my death teaches everybody that WHEN THE GUARDIAN TELLS YOU AND ONE OTHER PERSON WHO HE IS, DO NOT WOLF HIM EVER. If it weren't for me telling Afrobean who I was, all three wolves may have won. Of course, if he had never wolfed me he might have stayed alive a lot longer anyways. So guys, when you are wolves, don't kill special roles that reveal themselves to you!!

And a note on probability: people keep saying how past chances don't affect future chances, but Guido was a mason twice in a row. Before Chardish reset PMs, I was a mason, as was Guido. What are the chances that Guido would be a mason twice in a row? Not very high, but it still happened.'

So, congrats to the wolves. I can't really say they fooled me because I had Afrobean figured out as soon as I died, and I asked him who the rest were so I could watch the game pan out knowing everything. It was surprising how early on the wolves knew everything.

(Chardish already fussed at me for this, but Afro was just telling me things so I'd be able to see the big picture while the game was going on, and I did not let anything slip to the humans I talked to as well (not concerning the game, Chardish. About completely non-TWG stuff, don't worry)) As soon as I died, I asked Afrobean "was it you or Tass?" and he admitted that it was him. Actually, I had been suspicious of him because I could usually order him around and he usually random votes with no problem. This TWG he was being way more independant than ever and was like "who do you think I should vote for?" When I told him a random person to vote for, he didn't do it. However he was quickly "convinced that Tass was a wolf" even though I had nothing for evidence against him, and when I told Afro to change his vote off of Tass he refused. Hence, when I died I figured it was Afrobean.

After my death (and his the next day) we talked about the game and what we would do if we were still in. Early on I said something like "but what about the masons, they might catch the wolves" but Afro told me that the wolves already knew all the special roles. GG Guido :P. I was hoping maybe my death would help the humans win (it did kill ONE wolf, at least) but whatever. I'll be content playing in the next game and hopefully winning there.

Oh, and there's no reason to stop MVP awards. However, I think Panda and Alain both deserve one, perhaps Panda moreso because of how close she got to the enemy, hehe.

[lightdarkness]

Humans lost from day one.

Stretchy was the last person we were going to go for, and by that time... all the masons/humans would've been gone.

And Tass doesn't need a ban, he didn't break the rules.

[evilbutterfly]

Oh yeah, about Tass. I think Guido's idea is kinda good, only a 1 game ban from playing. He can host if he wants, though (and he does want to).

[Tasselfoot]

I completely agree with LD... we were screwed from the start. Guido ol' boy... you need to know your woman better. but, no hard feelings. this game was really fun, and turned out to be quite complex.

problems: emccky told about 5 people he was the psychic... no big suprise he got killed. guido told panda everything... no big suprise the humans lost. chardish's interpretation of his own rule... the 3 humans could have had a stronger 3 votes than the 2 wolves + phantom. an insta lynch is a 100% majority, ending the day earlier when there is 0 hope of the convicted saving themselves... this was not the case today. that more than anything else upsets me. it is up there with kilga ending twg5 a day early.

regarding the changing of the roles: Chardish, why did you neglect to mention the fact that Q quit? Q was a wolf and then quit... and right after that happened you decided to change the roles... not because i talked to LD. and, i ONLY talked to LD, despite your efforts to make it seem otherwise. i'll accept any penalty deemed appropriate.

[Afrobean]

Ok, now a few things make sense. Tass and LD obviously had some sort of PM sharing or something. That's why LD was so sure of Tass when Tass could easily have been a wolf.

The thing that pissed me off is that I got lynch'd basically because I went against Tass. Even if I had been human, I would have acted in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. It's bull that everyone would assume I'm a wolf just based on the fact that I accused Tass. Whatever, though. It is just a game after all.

Since eb touched on his wolfing, I'll comment. I told Alain that we should keep him alive. Alain didn't listen though. He was convinced that the best plan was to kill the guardian. I don't see why he needed to die if we could know who he was guarding every night and just not wolf them. So, if my lynching is anyone's fault beside my own, it's Alain's. My plan would have had keeping eb alive as long as possible, finding out who he was guarding and avoiding that person. Tass probably would have been wolfed second day, because if I remember correctly eb was unsure if he was going to guard him after the first day and I'm sure I could convince him to not guard Tass. After that, we could just go crazy killing the psychic (emccky), then the masons (LD, Guido, and Jpec, if my memory serves). It would have been cake, that is unless eb figured me out, which he easily could have. Oh well, I'm ranting now and I'm sure no one wants to read all this.

My thoughts on Tass being banned from the next TWGs: I think a ban should be indefinite. He's cheated in the past and still done it this game. I really don't think Tass should be allowed to play unless he convinces the hosts that he's not going to cheat anymore.

Also, Tass, you are wrong. A phantom vote is sufficient to cause an instalynch. If there's an instalynch, the day ends and no more votes count. Why can't you just accept that the humans couldn't win?

[lightdarkness]

Tass didn't do anything wrong, he asked me what I was in the game, how is that cheating? It's not my fault I was a mason, and didn't know what humans were called.

And with us being convinced Tass was a human, we weren't. I was insanly paranoid he was a wolf. But if wanted to have any chance, we had to tell him who the masons were.

It started with me contacting him from the screen name TWG 7 Masons, but then Tass said "Trust is a 2 way street", after talking with eyespew, we decided we had to tell him some information.

I revealed myself to Tass, 2 nights later we told him Eyespew, and at no point throughout the game did we tell him Guido (Although he had already figured that out)

I don't know why everyone is on Tass's back. Just because he plays the game to the best of his abilitiy. He didn't cheat at all this game. If anyone is at fault, it's Chardish for not posting what all the roles were (In terms of the story line).

[blahblah18]

her's my personal opinion...
I think I've been hardest on Tass's actions and methods for all the games, but I think that there might be a reasonable excuse for this one. The way it went down was something like tass mentioning to LD about being a fox, and since LD didn't know the term was foxhound he had to ask chardish... I could see how that would be harmless, but we all know Tass wasn't just saying it for idle conversation. Despit that though, its nothing we all haven't done before, akin to saying , "you human? you a seer?" etcetera... So based on some form of innocent until proven guilty but also considering that he was kinda on "parole" due to TWG V, give him a 2 game ban, but let him host if he wants to. Unless the majority of people here wouldn't trust him as a host, although I would... unless whorli played And so if people wouldn't want him to host, then just give him a 1 game ban. LOL or better yet force him to play in the jTWG game for a while :-p

Now onto this game...
Stretchy did an amazing job and deserves an MVP and like 3 pips for this game unquestionably.
Afro's strat with EB would've been the correct one and he did a good job not jumping on EB day 1 when I gave him the chance to.
Alain I basically knew was a wolf the entire game but could never get him killed, due basicalyl on day 1 to the fact that HansSky didn't come back online and vote him like I was hoping he was going to do, then Tass wouldn't have to vote jpec in survival and Alain would've been dead day 1.

The main fault why none of this happened really though was my own, for not being around the last couple days, because I went upstate and we were supposed to have internet service but there was some problem and we didn't have any. I honestly was suspicious of panda/guido frmo the start and figured one of them had to be a wolf, but since guido was never on and my talking to panda did seem kinda suspici0ous, i couldn't shake the thought that i was jstu convincing myself tht she had to be a wolf merely to prove myself correct... not like it would have made a difference anyhow... although I think I told tass at the beginning that if her or guido didn't die day 2, then one of them had to be a wolf.

Oh well, it was a real fun game, the story was amazing, my personal opinion is that the rules for this game state that it should have been an instalynch but for future games it definately should not be, and for reasons why, you can see the actual TWG thread... basically the whole not a majority without changing votes test. This was the first storyline that I didn't just skip to the bold. Alas, time for a boring sig again. And by boring I mean I'm hilarious, its a great little quote.

[buttonkiller]

you know what.... i have no clue what that crap is

[Afrobean]

By the way, I just finished up the story from the TWG thread. Good job Chardish. Way better than I could do. It was a little long, but that really helped the story.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by buttonkiller

you know what.... i have no clue what that crap is

It's a game that you weren't part of and obviously weren't following. Because of this, you have NO reason to post here.

[Tasselfoot]

to clarify for you Afro.... what blah said is correct. and, because i mentioned the fox thing to LD (he was the guardian, not a mason....), he didn't know how to respond, so he asked Chardish. then he told me he was the guardian. then Q decided he didn't want to play. all of that collectively resulted in chardish re-doing the roles... not just because of me. and, after the roles were switched, LD was a mason... but there was no way that i knew that 100%. part of me though eyespew and LD were wolves trying to screw me over...

also, i forgot to mention this earlier... before night 4 started (the night i was killed), i told LD that i sent PMs to 3 different people in the game telling them all that LD/Eyespew/Guido were masons, etc... but that they couldn't open the PMs unless i died.... i told him this so that if he was a wolf, he wouldn't kill me... and if he was a mason, his reaction would give him away as such. i never sent any PMs out, but LDs reaction of "if you screwed us over, i will hunt you down and kill you IRL" convinced me he was really a mason. LD is so funny... he takes this game more seriously than i do.

And jeebs... let me host twg8. i'll even host 9 and 10 also, if y'all wish me not to play for a few games.

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by lightdarkness

And with us being convinced Tass was a human, we weren't. I was insanly paranoid he was a wolf. But if wanted to have any chance, we had to tell him who the masons were.

THAT is why I want Tass to stop playing. The cheating and all that is in the past, but the game centers way too much around him. Thinking like that is BAD and needs to stop. If we play a couple games without Tass, maybe people will learn to stop being so dependant on one player.

[Afrobean]

Yea the thing about coming to Tass when you have a special job is this: It DOES NOT help you win. It helps Tass win. If Tass is human and you come out to him, it creates a great alliance. If you come out to Tass and he's a wolf, though, you've given him information that will basically allow him to OWN the game. I reccomend that NO ONE under any circumstance should come out to Tass just because he's Tass. It's totally illogical.

And Tass, don't argue this. You know it's true. People coming out to you only helps you win, no matter what side you're on. Even though you totally got your butt kicked this game and you knew everything...

[Tasselfoot]

see my post above... panda pwnd me big time... even though i never talked to her.

and, what it all comes down to is this.... for the humans to have a realistic chance to win, SOMEONE has to be in charge of them. be it me, LD, blah, anyone. someone needs to step forward and take charge of everyone. it has just happened to be me the past few games, because i have been loud and voiced my opinions on the subject. trust amongst humans is the only chance they have to win. so, if i'm not playing, someone else will have to take charge... not that it will matter in the 1st game i run. there won't be any blue roles. but, with that, trust will have to play an even bigger role.

[evilbutterfly]

1) buttonkiller, . Use it, don't spam.

2) To add to what Afrobean said: it's not that Tass is great at forming alliances or anything. The only reason going to Tass will bring you a great alliance is because everybody goes to Tass. I went to Tass because I hadn't really talked to anybody else in TWG while in a game, so I figured I'd go with somebody familiar that I might have some idea about. I went to Afrobean as well because I know him best of all the TWG players. I didn't reveal myself to Tass just because he was Tass, I did it because he was familiar. I suggest you all familiarize yourself with other players. If we can read each other better, we can trust each other better rather than just go to Tass.

3) Tass hosting looks to be a great solution. His idea is made to bring humans together (I don't know how the game will be, but it's worth a shot). Actually, any idea other than the norm seems to look good now. This was probably the best TWG yet, and I think it's not just the great story, but the new roles and different approach the game took. We should start experimenting more. May be some games will fail miserably, but it's worth a shot, no?

[blahblah18]

fairly well put EB... everyone has new ideas for games, I don't l9oike tass hosting 3 straight games cuz cypher will explode, and what tass said is definately right on.. its not that people need tass to win, but rather people need a leader to win. the games should be called wolves and sheep.. it maeks more sense for wolves to attack sheep, and the humans definately act as sheep just following someoen around.. someone needs to step up as the herder and form some cohesive opinions, run them by others, make educated guesses, and have enough influence that their vote matters. IT really only has to do with Tass because you all let him take that position of power. I feel that I do a good job in not being part of that while still being open to ideas and listening to different oppinions while trying to garner support myself.

[Tasselfoot]

i merely said about hosting 3 games in a row if that is what others wanted... i really don't want to do that either.

and, yes... everyone who is planning on hosting a game in the near future has new and different ideas for the game. i know that when cypher finally gets a change to host, his idea will be excellent (as i know what it is).

PS - blah is my sheep. baaah for me biotch!

[blahblah18]

hahaha you wish man, you wish.s. I"m the one man attempting to maintain order and reason haha

[evilbutterfly]

Sheep, nice one. It seems to be true from what I can see, but I can only really see parts of what others do. I, for the record, never fully trust Tass. In this game I was uneasy telling him that I was guardian, but I knew that if he was a wolf he wouldn't kill me. I didn't even tell him that I told Afrobean, I just said "I told somebody else, so don't try anything." I told Afrobean that I told Tass, however, and I figured if I died then it had to be Afrobean because Tass wouldn't even have anybody to lay the blame on (since I didn't tell him who I told).

Also, in TWG5 where Tass was pretty much the ringleader, I didn't trust him until Alain admitted his defeat. If Alain hadn't admitted to being wolf I still would have thought that maybe Tass and LD were trying to screw us over and that they were wolves. I've never trusted Tass completely except then when Alain was stupid and messed up :P.

Oh, and Tass, some have raised concerns that your grammar/capitalization/stuff isn't so great, and they would be kinda angered if you hosted, for that reason. Hence, if you do host, you must promise that you will go through and proofread the story and all before you post it.

And blah, I didn't agree with Tass hosting 3 games in a row. I'm just saying that we need to stop doing the same old game. Tass has his idea, Cypher (I think) has his idea that would be a major change, and I'm sure there are others. Like, I thought it would be cool to have more wolves (5, maybe) and 2 seers, and the Master Wolf can be seen as a wolf only if both seers view him. I'm not running for host, though, I just figured I'd throw that out there to see what people think.

Speaking of which, may be we should make a thread about TWG ideas? New roles to incorporate, ways to balance it out with new roles and different numbers of people. I'd like to see, all in one thread, how people think TWG should be run. Then we can pull the best of those ideas and incorporate them into TWG, with the sketchy ideas being put into jTWG perhaps. Just a thought, though.